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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Fuck. You're right. Ughhhhhhhhhh.

Agreed. That style of negotiation is destroying our country.

As time passes people will begin to conflate Obamacare and the ACA, that's also something we can be sure of. It'll take time, but it will happen. Especially when people start running on it or against it.

It's never going to pass of course, but is a great place to start.


Don't speak so soon, the GOP is determined to sabotage this law even if it means bankrupting the insurance industry. These people are not rational... at all.

I know, but that fight will only get harder and harder from here on out. The ACA will eventually reach medicare levels, many many years from now, but it will happen at one point.
 

Dartastic

Member
As time passes people will begin to conflate Obamacare and the ACA, that's also something we can be sure of. It'll take time, but it will happen. Especially when people start running on it or against it.
Well, yeah. It's going to take a while though. Unfortunately, there's still that segment of the population that is going to be against it because "soshulizm" or whatever, regardless of the facts that a) it's not socialism and b)it's having a positive effect on their personal well being.

The most important fight by far is the fight to create a rational discourse within our government again.
 

Dartastic

Member
Is this a real person
I just tweeted that at him. Hahah. Also, it looks like Twitter isn't essential.
waRhJZs.png
 
Hold on...are the GOP even aware they have no leverage for anything now that the government has shutdown? The longer this goes on the deeper their graves gets!
 
Hold on...are the GOP even aware they have no leverage for anything now that the government has shutdown? The longer this goes on the deeper their graves gets!

The Tea Party doesn't understand the concepts of most things.

Ted Cruz read Green Eggs & Ham while railing against letting Obamacare have a chance.

Think about that for a second.
 

Diablos

Member
edit: Diablos - the GOP will eventually cave. Either than or the entire economy in the world craters with them. But Obama/Dems won't cave. I promise you.
Wait wait. So you think Obama will, if left with no other options, let the economy cave opposed to delaying the ACA mandate for a year on his watch?

Something that epic is unprecedented and goes way up to the top. Obama's legacy would be ruined and kill the political careers of a great many Democrats.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Hold on...are the GOP even aware they have no leverage for anything now that the government has shutdown? The longer this goes on the deeper their graves gets!

That's what makes it fun to watch. I wish they had a collective face I could watch as this realization slowly dawned on it.

Hey guys, do you know how old Vincent C. Gray is?




70

WTF

No fucking way dude. He has had work done right? Dude has got to have one hell of a plastic surgeon, right?

Wait wait. So you think Obama will, if left with no other options, let the economy cave opposed to delaying the ACA for a year on his watch?

Something that epic is unprecedented and goes way up to the top. Obama's legacy would be ruined and kill the political careers of a great many Democrats.

You think the GOP's big donors are going to let them do that? I guarantee you they have been on the phone already telling them to fold and those calls will only increase by the day.
 

Diablos

Member
You think the GOP's big donors are going to let them do that? I guarantee you they have been on the phone already telling them to fold and those calls will only increase by the day.
Not all of them, but I think you and I would be surprised if we could screen those calls, how many are sympathetic towards this situation.
 
Wait wait. So you think Obama will, if left with no other options, let the economy cave opposed to delaying the ACA mandate for a year on his watch?

Something that epic is unprecedented and goes way up to the top. Obama's legacy would be ruined and kill the political careers of a great many Democrats.

Yes, he will. If he caves, it means the end of governance in the US forever no matter who is President.

Do you understand? He has no option but to allow it. Well, he may do a trillion dollar coin or something of that nature, but HE WILL NOT CAVE.

If he caves, it simply means every party can now threaten the debt ceiling for anything they want and thus the system just falls apart.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Not all of them, but I think you and I would be surprised if we could screen those calls, how many are sympathetic towards this situation.

Some will be sympathetic, until it starts threatening their bottom lines. They'll turn on Boehner and the GOP pretty fast once that happens.

Yes, he will. If he caves, it means the end of governance in the US forever no matter who is President.

Do you understand? He has no option but to allow it. Well, he may do a trillion dollar coin or something of that nature, but HE WILL NOT CAVE.

If he caves, it simply means every party can now threaten the debt ceiling for anything they want and thus the system just falls apart.

This. Obama has no choice in the matter. Not a single one. If he caves, everything else he's ever done or would do is pointless. He could solve the Israel/Palestine conflict over a night of beers with the leaders of both parties and all anyone would remember is him caving on this.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
so about breaking bad last night...

It felt so good to have a show with a really solid ending. I'm glad they didn't try and go for a big shocking ending, they just ended it in a really solid way. Normally I'd have complaints, but not here.

#GOPshutdown is #1 trending hastag in US.

lolz.

So good. They can't spin this shit.

Does this guy on Red Eye have a mullet or is that just my SD and strong bourbon and ginger ale pours talking?

Nope, that's a mullet.
 

Jooney

Member
Well, it happened. I was chilling with a movie and I turn to the news to see the US government has shut down.

Does anyone have a cogent explanation for Boehner's rationale here? It makes no goddamn sense. Is this just an act of personal self-preservation?

Does anyone have a roadmap for what they think will happen for the next few days? Given the majority of public will is on the side of the Democrats / Obama it can't be more than a few days before the GOP folds and comes back to the negotiating table.

The tail has truly wagged the dog. Beehner can't keep a minority within his party in check, and in doing so has threatened an already fragile economic recovery. He needs to go.

EDIT:

Re-posting for great justice and for all the furloughed federal workers out there

"...when it is done and Washington is ashes, then you have my permission to die"
- Speaker John Bane-ner, seen here speaking to an adoring crowd at the NY Stock Exchange, on the US Government shutdown
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Well, it happened. I was chilling with a movie and I turn to the news to see the US government has shut down.

Does anyone have a cogent explanation for Boehner's rationale here? It makes no goddamn sense. Is this just an act of personal self-preservation?

Does anyone have a roadmap for what they think will happen for the next few days? Given the majority of public will is on the side of the Democrats / Obama it can't be more than a few days before the GOP folds and comes back to the negotiating table.

The tail has truly wagged the dog. Beehner can't keep a minority within his party in check, and in doing so has threatened an already fragile economic recovery. He needs to go.

I think (along with Oblivion) he's just letting the Tea Party tucker themselves out before it comes time for the Debt Ceiling so they don't put up a fight. It is literally the only thing that makes sense at this point. If this isn't the case then he has lost his damn mind.
 
Well, it happened. I was chilling with a movie and I turn to the news to see the US government has shut down.

Does anyone have a cogent explanation for Boehner's rationale here? It makes no goddamn sense. Is this just an act of personal self-preservation?

Does anyone have a roadmap for what they think will happen for the next few days? Given the majority of public will is on the side of the Democrats / Obama it can't be more than a few days before the GOP folds and comes back to the negotiating table.

The tail has truly wagged the dog. Beehner can't keep a minority within his party in check, and in doing so has threatened an already fragile economic recovery. He needs to go.

3 reasons:

1. Boehner wants this so that the radicals understand why this is bad for them. Then he will get this through and the debt ceiling goes smoothly.

2. Boehner is trying to save his job by appeasing the far right long enough before they are forced to cave.

3. Nobody is in control, the party is deranged, and anything is possible from here on out.

I'm hoping it's 1 but fear it's 3.
 
rX1Nbx8.png


From the official Senate Democrats twitter feed. Trollin' some more. Love it.



I agree on the BB finale. Very satisfying. I think the 3rd to last episode was the climax, though.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
3 reasons:

1. Boehner wants this so that the radicals understand why this is bad for them. Then he will get this through and the debt ceiling goes smoothly.

2. Boehner is trying to save his job by appeasing the far right long enough before they are forced to cave.

3. Nobody is in control, the party is deranged, and anything is possible from here on out.

I'm hoping it's 1 but fear it's 3.

Not even God himself could save us if it's 3. The whole world would be super-boned.

Jesus. Of course it is.

Looking at all the people at the table, it's like they have 1 of each major hair style.

Yeah i was really statisfied

I know, I don't get the people that were complaining. You don't get much more solid than that. The last two episodes were basically an epilogue though.

anybody else hope Obama turns into angry black man tomorrow? I want him to go all in!

That would make my week. If I were him I'd wait a day or two though, make it look like you tried to play nice at least.
 

Jooney

Member
anybody else hope Obama turns into angry black man tomorrow? I want him to go all in!

Nope, Obama and the dems just need to stay on course and on message. Public opinion will make the GOP fold soon.

Dems really need to nail home the messaging the connects this shutdown to how it affects the recovery.
 

Jooney

Member
From the official Senate Democrats twitter feed. Trollin' some more. Love it.



I agree on the BB finale. Very satisfying. I think the 3rd to last episode was the climax, though.

But remember: both parties are the same.

Also: that's a terrible photo of Pelosi.
 

Jooney

Member
#tcot page is madness.

The problem with America is where people get their information from. It's Two America's all right.
 

dabig2

Member
anybody else hope Obama turns into angry black man tomorrow? I want him to go all in!

In my Hollywood idealized view of the world, Obama would be doing a live tv talk each night at primetime treating this as "Day X of the hostage crisis" while raking the GOP anarchists over the coals.
 
Remember when the newly elected Republican house said jobs was priority number one? Those were good times.

(Reuters) - Top Republican lawmaker John Boehner said on Thursday he would not make it his mission to repeal the Obama administration's healthcare reform law following the re-election of President Barack Obama.

"The election changes that," Boehner, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, told ABC news anchor Diane Sawyer when asked if repealing the law was "still your mission."

"It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected," Boehner added. "Obamacare is the law of the land."

Hey, remember THAT!?

lolz
 
TUxAQfS.png

http://www.scribd.com/doc/171715723/TMC-September-2013-Tracking-Poll-Toplines

So much for that "2012 election wasn't really about Obamacare" talking point the GOP tried.

Even 46% of Republicans agree it was a referendum on it. Overall, it's 2:1.

Like I said, people will view the GOP as sore losers in this battle. It's written in stone. They cannot win. Diablossing about the actual shutdown and debt ceiling being breached is okay, but not about if the Dems will cave/lose.


edit: moar

BWdcogu.png


Uh, that independent # is very bad for the GOP. Very very bad.
 

Diablos

Member
I can't sleep. Not because I'm scared, but i'm pissed the fuck off. For maybe the first time I'm just in my bed. making all these aggravated noises.

#grassrootsefforttorecallgopseatsnationwide
 

Jooney

Member
So while all the talk is on the shutdown, does anyone know anything about the upcoming case to be heard by the Supreme Court, McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission?. It could potentially loosen campaign regulation to enable direct contributions to candidates.

From the link:

Sometimes at the Supreme Court, it is not if you lose, but how. That principle will be on full display in McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission, the campaign finance case the Supreme Court will hear next Tuesday, the second day of the new term. If the government loses big, it could mark the beginning of the end of any limits on campaign contributions given directly to candidates in federal, state, and local elections.

Citizens United and the rise of super PACs are already flooding the election system with money. But so far we’ve managed to keep a little distance between the money and the candidates themselves. If hard-line conservatives get their way, that distance will evaporate, and soon you could write a multimillion-dollar check that would go right into a candidate’s bank account. The question is whether Chief Justice John Roberts will hold back the conservative majority back from the brink—though if he does, Justice Antonin Scalia will surely taunt him for it.

I don't want to be sucked in the by typical Slate hyperbole. However this SC has lost credibility with regards to campaign finance and I can only see this getting worse. With all the talk on the shutdown I can see this quietly getting being decided on by the SC.

Would be good to get legal-GAF thoughts on the matter.
 
So while all the talk is on the shutdown, does anyone know anything about the upcoming case to be heard by the Supreme Court, McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission?. It could potentially loosen campaign regulation to enable direct contributions to candidates.

From the link:



I don't want to be sucked in the by typical Slate hyperbole. However this SC has lost credibility with regards to campaign finance and I can only see this getting worse. With all the talk on the shutdown I can see this quietly getting being decided on by the SC.

Would be good to get legal-GAF thoughts on the matter.

In a weird way, this might be the only way to get something that overturns Citizen's United (bar waiting 10-15 years for a new liberal majority on the Court) is something this brazen. After all, campaign finance vagaries are hard to explain. Somebody literally writing a check to x candidate for $10 millllllliooooonnnn dollars is easy to explain.
 
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