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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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Not one of his better speeches so far. Its accurate but I don't feel like he's really capturing the ludicrousness of the situation, especially the repeated refusal to negotiate

There's a reason Clinon was trouncing republicans 2 to 1 during the last shutdown. Clinton was a master politician and managed to shame his enemies. Obama sounds like a tired professor complaining about students using cellphones in class.
 

Owzers

Member
There's a reason Clinon was trouncing republicans 2 to 1 during the last shutdown. Clinton was a master politician and managed to shame his enemies. Obama sounds like a tired professor complaining about students using cellphones in class.

yup, he's holding firm but he looks exasperated and just wishing the situation would go away instead of having any passion.
 
There's a reason Clinon was trouncing republicans 2 to 1 during the last shutdown. Clinton was a master politician and managed to shame his enemies. Obama sounds like a tired professor complaining about students using cellphones in class.

Obama is certainly capable, he just chooses not too.
 

Aylinato

Member
that division never really went away.

"southern democrats" (i.e. racist lunatics who were democrats only because lincoln was a republican) split from the democratic party in 1964 when the civil rights act was passed.

They then joined the republican party. Race Baiting and coded language ("welfare queens", etc) has kept them there since.

True that is.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
There's a reason Clinon was trouncing republicans 2 to 1 during the last shutdown. Clinton was a master politician and managed to shame his enemies. Obama sounds like a tired professor complaining about students using cellphones in class.

Newt complaining like a child about seating arrangements certainly helped, but I do see your point.
 

ido

Member
Yeah, I had to sneak away to keep listening.

Isn't the CR itself an enormous compromise? It's really disheartening to see people spin this false equivalency as both sides being just as stubborn.

In my opinion his Q/A part has been better than the opening speech.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
There's a reason Clinon was trouncing republicans 2 to 1 during the last shutdown. Clinton was a master politician and managed to shame his enemies. Obama sounds like a tired professor complaining about students using cellphones in class.

And that one was right after an election the republicans won, was actually about the budget, and the veto was the only thing holding the republicans back.

This time democrats won the last election, the demands are not budget related and thus even more unreasonable, and the only thing holding the democrats back is Boehner not bringing a clean CR to a vote.

And yet Democrats are doing worse now compared to then? Really shows just what type of political climate we're in right now.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yeah, I had to sneak away to keep listening.

Isn't the CR itself an enormous compromise? It's really disheartening to see people spin this false equivalency as both sides being just as stubborn.

In my opinion his Q/A part has been better than the opening speech.

Yes it is. The Senate budget proposal had a lot more spending, this CR is closer to Ryan's own levels than the Senate's. The Dems have already compromised, the GOP is just using this shut down to play politics.
 
Very good argument against the use of the 14th. Even if he uses it, uncertainty persists, since the selling of that debt could end up being litigated. Getting to that point does the damage already.
 

ido

Member
Yes it is. The Senate budget proposal had a lot more spending, this CR is closer to Ryan's own levels than the Senate's. The Dems have already compromised, the GOP is just using this shut down to play politics.

Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing that this CR is actually less than Ryan's original budget. That is some truly sad shit.

So it sounds like to me the democrats have compromised way too much already, yet everything they have given up has somehow eluded the entire media.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing that this CR is actually less than Ryan's original budget. That is some truly sad shit.

So it sounds like to me the democrats have compromised way too much already, yet everything they have given up has somehow eluded the entire media.

It's slightly more than Ryan outlined actually, but it's far far far less than what Dems had asked for. It's as close to Ryan's numbers as you can get without privatizing social security or medicade or whatever insane thing he wanted to do.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Really wish he'd stop using household metaphors. This is going to bite him in the ass.

Eh, I see the logic in it. The household metaphor has already entered into the debate thanks to republicans. It's probably more effective to counter it with other household metaphors. He used to say "government is not a household" but that's not easy to explain why that's true in a soundbite.
 

bonercop

Member
It's slightly more than Ryan outlined actually, but it's far far far less than what Dems had asked for. It's as close to Ryan's numbers as you can get without privatizing social security or medicade or whatever insane thing he wanted to do.
FundingLevelCharticle-1.png

nope.
 
Posted this in the shutdown thread as well:

Transcript of Obama's remarks: here

Some excerpts
In the same way, members of Congress, and the House Republicans in particular, don't get to demand ransom in exchange for doing their jobs. And two of their very basic jobs are passing a budget and making sure that America's paying its bills. They don't also get to say, you know, unless you give me what the voters rejected in the last election, I'm going to cause a recession.

That's not how it works. No American president would deal with a foreign leader like this. Most of you would not deal with either co- workers or business associates in this fashion. And we shouldn't be dealing this way here in Washington.

And you know, I've heard Republicans suggest that, well, no, this is reasonable, that this is entirely appropriate. But as I've said before, imagine if a Democratic Congress threatened to crash the global economy unless a Republican president agreed to gun background checks or immigration reform. I think it's fair to say that Republicans would not think that was appropriate.
...
Now the last time that the tea party Republicans flirted with the idea of default, two years ago, markets plunged, business and consumer confidence plunged, America's credit rating was downgraded for the first time, and a decision to actually go through with it, to actually permit default, according to many CEOs and economists, would be -- and I'm quoting here -- "insane, catastrophic, chaos" -- these are some of the more polite words.
...
So we can't afford these manufactured crises every few months. And as I said, this one isn't even about deficits or spending or budgets. Our deficits are falling at the fastest pace in 60 years. The budget that the Senate passed is at Republican spending levels. It's their budget that Democrats were willing to put votes on just to make sure the government was open while negotiations took place for a longer-term budget. And what's happened -- the way we got to this point was one thing and one thing only, and that was Republican obsession with dismantling the Affordable Care Act and denying health care to millions of people. That law ironically is moving forward.
...
We can't make extortion routine as part of our democracy. Democracy doesn't function this way. And this is not just for me; it's also for my successors in office. Whatever party they're from, they shouldn't have to pay a ransom either for Congress doing its basic job. We've got to put a stop to it.
...
The greatest nation on earth shouldn't have to get permission from a few irresponsible members of Congress every couple months just to keep our government open or to prevent an economic catastrophe.
 
He's doing pretty well with these questions. I'm pleased.

He should take this question as an opportunity to point out an education problem in those GOP districts the asker mentioned.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I still think they should have partially funded the programs that are running experiments that would be need to be restarted because of the delay as very special cases.

Head start or national monuments can easily wait it out though. I don't know why those get so much attention.
 

Trey

Member
I still think they should have partially funded the programs that are running experiments that would be need to be restarted because of the delay as very special cases.

Head start or national monuments can easily wait it out though. I don't know why those get so much attention.

It's things that are readily apparent to the voters.
 
What did Shep say? I missed it.

Ed Henry couldn't wait to shift the conversation back to how Republicans were hammered by being asked questions that let Obama hit on talking points - he's salty that Obama is basically ignoring questions from TV reporters at this point.
 
Republicans win again.

The IRS has granted nonprofit status to America Is Not Stupid – a so-called dark money group best known for a 2012 election ad featuring a talking baby who compared the smell of his diaper with a Montana senator.

As ProPublica wrote in January, America Is Not Stupid and a related group, A Better America Now, applied for IRS recognition in the run-up to the 2012 election, swearing under penalty of perjury that they would not spend money on elections.

Then both groups went ahead and did exactly that, spending more than $125,000 on mailers and ads opposing Democratic candidates in Texas and Montana.

Despite these disclosures, records show, the IRS gave A Better America Now its stamp of approval as a social welfare nonprofit in April and recognized America Is Not Stupid in late June, decisions that elicited amazement among campaign finance watchdogs.

Marcus Owens, a nonprofit lawyer who ran the IRS Exempt Organizations division from 1990 to 2000, questioned whether a controversy that erupted earlier this year, over the agency subjecting certain conservative nonprofits to extra review, had damaged its ability to fulfill its regulatory functions.

“The oversight has collapsed,” Owens said. “The current people in Exempt Organizations have no tax law enforcement experience and no exempt organization experience in particular. And they’ve been charged with making this particular headache go away.”​

http://www.propublica.org/article/d...-wins-irs-recognition-as-tax-exempt-nonprofit

Democrats (including Obama) played right into the Republicans' manufactured "controversy."
 

Diablos

Member
I'll be the new Diablos. Someone talk me off the ledge, 'cause I have no faith in the Tea Party's rationality or our ability to avoid imploding the world economy.
Feel free! fwiw, I think Dems will get back the House in the next 2-4 years and will win the WH again in 2016; but because the Tea Party has the GOP by the balls, and because they are completely irrational, insane people, I cannot rely on outcomes based in logic or reason to expect the GOP to fold before making the country default.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/RemarksonGov

Watching the Senate on C-SPAN2 is interesting. It seems like the Senate is getting really tired of this and is going to try to do "something".
Danke!
 
Erza Klein's Wonk Blog - The 13 Reasons Washington is Failing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...the-13-reasons-washington-is-failing/?hpid=z2

In order:
  1. Earmarks are gone.
  2. Too much sunshine can burn
  3. Big business has lost a lot of its power over the Republican Party
  4. Gerrymandering is protecting politicians from voters
  5. Ted Cruz (and others like him) has gained a lot of power over the Republican Party
  6. John Boehner is not a very good speaker
  7. The House is obsessed with a rule that's not actually a rule
  8. The Senate is obsessed with a rule that shouldn't be a rule
  9. Polarized media makes it easier for politicians and voters to fool themselves
  10. The Republican Party has become particularly extreme
  11. There is no "Republican Party"
  12. The parties have never been further apart
  13. Our system of government is cracking under the stress

Interesting read.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Except democrats are not at fault for anything happening right now.

This is a more general article, and it does a pretty good job outlining and providing evidence and examples of current issues.

It's also pretty clear in putting forward the argument that Republicans are to blame for the majority of current issues.
 

ido

Member
Saw this on a facebook group I'm in, and thought it was pretty amusing:

Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
June 2012: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
 
Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) said Tuesday afternoon that a "clean" debt ceiling increase, as Democrats are demanding, would amount to "unconditional surrender" for Republicans.

"At times like this, the American people expect their leaders to sit down and have a conversation. I want that conversation to occur now," he told reporters. "What the president said today was if there's unconditional surrender by Republicans, he will sit down and talk to us. That's not the way our government works."

The Speaker refused to budge on the eighth day of the government shutdown on funding the government or averting default without preconditions.

"I didn't come down here to shut down the government," he said. "I certainly didn't come here to default on the debt."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...imit-would-be-unconditional-surrender-for-gop
 

ISOM

Member
I don't get this about republicans. They say they want to save american's future especially for the children but they are threatening economic catastrophe and america's future to do it. How the fuck does that make any sense?
 

Wilsongt

Member
I don't get this about republicans. They say they want to save american's future especially for the children but they are threatening economic catastrophe and america's future to do it. How the fuck does that make any sense?

They want to "save American's future". Which roughly translates to: "We want to do whatever the fuck we want and we don't like being told to stop."
 
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