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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
thepotatoman said:
I see. Well both countries still have universal health care at least.

In which country is it easiest to buy a gun?
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We talking legally? I've never bought a gun, but my understanding is it's pretty easy to get long guns/rifles. Handguns ain't happening though.
 
R

R10Neymarfan

Member
Uh, I cringe at some of those comments in the Third Party thread. Some Poole just don't understand the US system. Instead they complain about something they can barely comprehend.
 
V

Videoneon

Member
Samarecarm said:
I don't think that's even a particular conservative view because there are plenty of liberal policies that have played out at the state level rather than the federal leve: marijuana legalization, same-sex marriage existed at the state level long before the federal level, Obamacare is basically what does with Romneycare in MA, etc.
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Yes. This is just referring to a particular undercurrent among the right, and not the right broadly speaking. I've said elsewhere a long time ago I don't think there is some uniform left or right consensus on authority structures or distribution of power. See Anarchists wherever they still exist. The discussion of the consistency/practicality of such ideologies is a different matter, but yeah.

Randolph Freelander said:
It is sort of odd. If, according to the right, Obama is a communist dictator, how bad must those oppressive regimes in Canada and Europe be?

Should we be sending aid to our friends in the United Kingdom? Perhaps I should say comrades.
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Sending aid? We can't do that, that sounds more like government waste! Even if it's in the name of freedom. They should use their bootstraps to do...something or the other.

These Tea Party patriots would not last in those countries

Or, they might do even better, what with the stronger social programs. Whoops.

Mario said:
Australia has just taken a big step to the right.
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Yeah, and I'll be keeping an eye every so often on how things are developing. Sounds unfortunate.

The Last Emperor said:
lmao at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omABz95bJyI

Glenn Beck wants to move to Canada
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This is like the Tea Party goon who wanted single payer as an alternative Obamacare.

Glenn Beck is like the abyss from the Nietzsche phrase.

R10Neymarfan said:
Uh, I cringe at some of those comments in the Third Party thread. Some Poole just don't understand the US system. Instead they complain about something they can barely comprehend.
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I want to say it comes from the same vantage point that produced those poll results asking for a third party in the first place. I'd guess if more Americans knew more about the structures in place (first past the post, how left and right parties sometimes form coalitions anyway or the more centrist parties still end up taking power in other countries, whatever else that Stump said in that one post), more would be inclined to give up. I want to say that Citizens United is widely reviled, beyond the obvious interests it directly serves (businesses)? I still love me some third parties, and will keep an eye on them every so often--or at least, the left wing movements.

Cyan said:
Damn, at this rate we're going to need a new OT tomorrow.

Time to start thinking about new titles, peeps!
Click to expand...

PoliGAF OT: It's not Boehner's party anymore, but he can still cry if he wants to
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
So I saw this thread earlier.

I wish the government would harness this and invest in this for a free food future. Food for everyone I say. Everyone!

R10Neymarfan said:
Uh, I cringe at some of those comments in the Third Party thread. Some Poole just don't understand the US system. Instead they complain about something they can barely comprehend.
Click to expand...

Both parties are the SAME!!!!!!!!!!
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Senate gives house 48 hour ultimatum
Washington (CNN) - House Speaker John Boehner has a day or two max to strike a debt ceiling and government funding deal before some of his Republican Senate colleagues move more aggressively on their own ideas, several impatient GOP Senators have told CNN.

The Senators say they are willing to give Boehner a bit more time, about 24 to 48 hours, to come to an agreement with the White House to raise the debt ceiling and reopen the government.

One option Boehner is currently pursuing, a six week increase to the debt ceiling, is becoming more and more unpopular, say multiple Senate GOP sources.

That plan would push the new deadline for raising U.S. borrowing authority to the end of November, just in time for Thanksgiving and the holiday shopping season, which could hurt retailers and cause economic repercussions.

The Senate sources are also extremely concerned about the partial government shutdown, which House Republican leadership wants to deal with only after the debt ceiling is raised.

While the shutdown has done no one any favors in the polls, it has been particularly damaging to the Republican Party, whose poll numbers are at near-historic lows.

A bipartisan group of about 10 senators, led by Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and Sen. Joe Manchin, D-West Virginia, met Friday afternoon to try to find a way forward in the Senate, according to sources familiar with the meeting.

Collins' plan for a longer extension of the debt limit and government funding has gained some traction. Her proposal would repeal the 2.3% tax on medical devices, which is used to help pay for Obamacare, and give federal agencies greater flexibility to deal with the forced spending cuts known as sequestration.

Democrats are unlikely to give sequester flexibility a warm reception but the broader concept of long-term solutions on the debt ceiling and government funding bill seem to be gaining bipartisan steam in the Senate. Repeal of the medical device tax is also a popular idea among Senate Democrats, receiving an overwhelming majority in one vote.

Another popular idea, particularly among conservatives determined to score a victory against the Affordable Care Act, would be to institute income verification for those receiving Obamacare subsidies, meant to prevent fraud.

One GOP Senator said an idea discussed with the President in a Friday morning meeting was to add a provision to the government spending bill that would replace the sequester-which would appeal to Democrats–with some reforms to Medicare proposed by the President, which appeal to Republicans who are concerned about entitlement spending's long-term impact on the debt.
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Boehner has no way out. Resistance is futile. But that medical device tax repeal, fuck that. The very few companies that manufacture these devices have been running nothing short of a racket, with common understanding between them to keep prices high. Fuck them to hell. Obama should stick to his guns. No compromise, no negotiations, nothing related to Obamacare.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Pfft

Dens hold everything and pick up ME, GA, KY
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:lol You can't be serious.

Zona said:
I still vote for OT3 | Boehner Strokes his Caucus.
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Yeah, I vote for this as well.

TestOfTide said:
Polls will probably end up showing dems in the lead by a 20 pt margin in states that were already showing dem leads, with dems in high 40s/low 50s and gops in mid-high20s.

the ones that were previously close are going to look like those august/september numbers for nc senate and virginia governor.

i'm curious to see how the obamacare voter registration is going to affect things. arizona and nebraska are already settig up to discriminate federal voter registration by making people who regitered federally only allowed to vote in federal elections.
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Wait, what?
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
1383972_599806580073910_1687326633_n.jpg


*sigh* Do these cartoonists even pay attention to the news
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
That CNN article makes it sound like the House is sticking to the 6 week DL raise, and that Collins' plan is more long term but not a one year raise either. It should be clear by now that republicans have no leverage, and thus the ceiling should be raised for a year. And while I understand Obama wants to work with senate republicans the message should be simple: open the government, raise the DL long term, then we can talk. Trading the medical device tax now would be like a husband telling his wife "drop the kids off at school or I won't pay the mortgage." And you know I hate household analogies but the point is that you don't trade concessions over shit you're supposed to do anyway.
 
T

T'Zariah

Banned
Poli-GAF, I need to make a confession, and honestly, don't care whether you agree or disagree, but the shit needs to be said, because I'm sure you've all at the very least felt some sort of way about it at some point in the last five years.

Honestly, fuck "respecting" the minority's opinion (in this case the GOP and conservatives). These assholes deserve nothing less than their party and those who subscribe to their ideology to slowly fade out in to irrelevancy. You KNOW that they are evil scumbags, you KNOW their ideology is flawed even applying the most basic of rational thought, you KNOW that if they were to ever control the government they could fuck this country over for over 5 decades if not longer, you KNOW absolutely NONE of their talking points don't come anywhere close to reality, so why in the fuck SHOULD we respect their opinion and let them be part of the debate?

If the Dems ever got their TRUE majority back, they should just say screw the GOP and just focus on progressing the country whether than trying to set it back to the status quo the GOP does with its vitriolic and outright racist, xenophobic, and homophobic rhetoric. If they complain about not having a voice, fuck that, they made the choice of allying themselves with a party that has irrefutable evidence of trying to screw everyone but the 1% over. Leave them behind, and until they can come back to earth and not with batshit insane and hurtful policies, THEN we can take them seriously as a whole again. Until then, they should be treated as the petulant ignorant children that they are, as should their constituents (which when progressive policies are fully enacted, they'll likely switch sides anyhow).

You can say its a slippery slope, and yes, it can be, but at the same time, isn't the alternative far, FAR worse?
 
D

Diablos

Member
WASHINGTON -- For Senate Democrats, the surest sign the party is on the brink of handing significant concessions to Republicans is that Democrats are so clearly winning the struggle.

"We are so totally, completely winning this thing that naturally it means we're gonna cave, right? I mean they're [the Republicans] getting hammered," a Democratic Senate aide said. "So when are we going to give them what they want?"

A Senate Democratic leadership aide, who has been buoyed throughout the showdown by the toughness displayed by the president, said he was getting signals that the White House is going soft.

"I do fear the White House is up to something bad. [Obama] says over and over, 'I won't negotiate', but we know he loves to cave," the aide said. The willingness of the Democratic sources to comment -- though without direct attribution -- is a sign of the growing tensions between Senate Democrats and the White House as the showdown enters its final stage.

Congressional Republicans were dragged by tea party elements into the government shutdown and debt ceiling standoff without an exit strategy, or even a list of winnable concessions, as both sides acknowledged the president was not going to undermine his signature achievement, Obamacare.

Republicans in the House and Senate have been scrambling for a way out as polls show public opinion squarely blaming the GOP for the shutdown, with Obamacare actually increasing in popularity as the Republican Party brand ebbs to record lows.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has pressed his party not to offer concessions. He argued that the weight of public opinion and the lack of sustainability of the Republicans' position will cause them to buckle, ending the pattern of short-term, manufactured crises that has consumed Washington and spooked global markets.

On Saturday, the Senate will vote on a one-year extension of the debt ceiling. House Republicans have proposed six weeks, which the president indicated was acceptable.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/12/debt-ceiling-deal-democats_n_4089115.html

Uhhh

also:

Boehner tells House GOP negotiations have ended

By Rosalind S. Helderman, Paul Kane and Jeff Simon, Updated: Saturday, October 12, 10:52 AM

House Republicans were told by Speaker John Boehner Saturday morning that negotiations between the House GOP and President Obama have ended, with Obama’s rejection Friday of the House’s latest offer.

At a closed door meeting in the basement of the Capitol, Boehner urged members to hold firm, several said, even as Senate Republicans work to negotiate their own proposal to end the impasse.

House members expressed anxiety about the Senate talks. House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wisconsin) said House leaders were only briefed on a proposal being circulated by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) on Saturday morning and were opposed to it. He said the reasons for opposition were too many to enumerate.
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Admitting it’s not optimal, Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) said Saturday that “all eyes are now on the Senate” this morning as the House waits to see how the upper chamber votes on a bill to fund the government.

Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) sounded a frustrated note as he left a GOP conference meeting.

“The president rejected our deal,” Labrador said.

“It’s all good. It’s now up to the Senate republicans to stand up,” the Idaho republican added.

Briefing reporters Friday after markets closed for the week, White House press secretary Jay Carney praised a “new willingness” among Republicans to end the government shutdown — now in its 12th day — and to acknowledge that default on the national debt “would be catastrophically damaging.”

But with the Treasury Department due to exhaust its borrowing authority in just six days, Carney said the president would not agree to go through another round of economy-rattling talks in six weeks, just before the Christmas shopping season.

“It at least looks like there’s the possibility of making some progress here,” Carney said. But “the president’s view is that we have to remove these sort of demands for leverage, using essentially the American people and the economy.”

Before Carney spoke, Obama telephoned Boehner (R-Ohio) and the two men agreed to keep talking, aides said. Afterward, GOP senators marched into Boehner’s office and counseled him to adopt an approach they had presented to Obama earlier in the day, during their own meeting at the White House.

With Republicans getting battered in public opinion polls over the shutdown, Senate GOP leaders urged Boehner to join them in supporting a single, big-bang measure that would open the government and raise the debt limit in one fell swoop.

“I laid out some of those ideas, and the question is, can the House find a center of gravity to open the government up around those ideas,” Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said after exiting the speaker’s office with Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.). The two men, former House members, have been close friends with Boehner for almost 20 years.

Details were still fluid late Friday, but the latest 23-page draft of the emerging measure would immediately end the shutdown and fund federal agencies for six months at current spending levels. It would maintain the deep automatic cuts known as the sequester but give agency officials flexibility to decide where the cuts should fall.

In addition, the proposal would raise the debt limit through Jan. 31, 2014. Lawmakers were considering whether to include a provision that would direct the House and Senate budget committees to immediately enter negotiations over broader budget issues and to issue a report by Jan. 15, 2014. If an agreement could be reached, it would clear a path for another increase in the debt limit later that month, without additional drama.

In exchange, Republicans were seeking what they called a few “fig leaves” — minor adjustments to Obama’s new health-care initiative. The first would delay for two years a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices that is unpopular in both parties. The second would require internal auditors to ensure that people who get tax subsidies to buy health insurance are in fact eligible.

Another option under consideration but not included in the latest draft would reduce the number of employees entitled to receive health coverage from their employers by changing the definition of a full-time worker from 30 hours a week to 40 hours a week.

In an interview with a Kentucky newspaper Friday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) signaled that he was helping to shepherd the effort to reach a compromise with Democrats.

“We’re in one of those situations right now where it’s going to require some sort of coming together here to get past the current impasse. And I’m going to continue to work on that,” McConnell told the Herald-Leader of Lexington.

By late Friday, talks over the measure were proceeding on multiple tracks. In the Senate, negotiations had advanced far enough that Senate Republicans — led by Sens. Collins, Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) — sent draft language to their Democratic counterparts, including Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), a trusted ally of Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.).

Meanwhile, Boehner was huddled with his top lieutenants in a hideaway on the first floor of the Capitol, reviewing his options over Chinese takeout and cigarettes.

The Senate proposal differs in critical ways from the approach Boehner sold earlier this week to his rank and file, who had insisted on using the threat of the shutdown to try to undermine the Affordable Care Act.

Given those demands, Boehner had offered to lift the debt limit for six weeks to clear space for negotiations over overhauling the tax code, trimming federal entitlement spending and reforming the health-care law. The government would remain shuttered unless Obama agreed to those talks.

House Republicans also proposed to roll back a portion of the sequester cuts, a top Democratic priority. But those cuts would have to be replaced with equal reductions in Medicare spending, such as Obama’s proposal to make well-off seniors pay more for coverage.

It was unclear how long the House offer would have kept the government open without further negotiations. But House Appropriations Chairman Harold Rogers (R-Ky.) quickly blasted the Senate plan to extend temporary funding for six months, calling it “disastrous.”

“It is a punt to the executive branch for the Congress not to exercise judgment about where money is spent,” Rogers said in a statement.

Boehner has scheduled a meeting of the entire GOP conference for 9 a.m. Saturday, but it was unclear whether he would present details of the proposal emerging in the Senate. Senate Republicans were hopeful that Boehner could build support for the plan and push it through the House first.

That could not only help get it to Obama’s desk faster, but also preserve Boehner’s political standing by avoiding a repeat of the New Year’s Day deal over the so-called “fiscal cliff.”

Then, a Senate-passed measure to stop scheduled tax hikes for the vast majority of Americans won the support of only 85 Republicans in the House. More than 150 GOP lawmakers opposed the bill, including some of Boehner’s top deputies, and the humiliating loss emboldened conservatives to vote against his reelection as speaker.

Senate Republicans cautioned, however, that Boehner doesn’t have much time to work things out. GOP senators are eager not only to get the government back to work but to raise the $16.7 trillion debt limit before Thursday, when the Treasury Department has said it would exhaust its ability to conserve cash. Without an increase in the debt limit, independent analysts say, the Treasury would begin missing payments by Nov. 1.

GOP senators and aides said Boehner has been told that Senate Republicans will negotiate their own pact with Senate Democrats if he fails to act.

“From my point of view, it’d be better for the country if the House led,” Graham said. “It’s important that we continue to talk among ourselves as senators,” he added, but “if it came out of the House, it would be better.”

Even as negotiations progressed rapidly in the Senate, the uncertainty over procedure cast a shadow of doubt over their ultimate success.

“It’s encouraging to me that the president is now negotiating with both the House and the Senate, after saying that he wouldn’t,” Collins said. “But it is very uncertain to me what the outcome is going to be.”
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...0d3f42-334a-11e3-9c68-1cf643210300_story.html
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
I dont like any changes to the ACA because it enables the GOP to feel that with enough threats to our govt and fiscal health they can get what they want.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Maybe the lack of confidence from Democratic aides is a head fake? I dunno. Otherwise, something must have happened from having a unified "not budging on Obamacare" stance to aides outright calling Obama a pussy in the nicest terms possible.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Politico's red ticket at the top of their page says:

"Breaking News: Senate Dem leaders reject Sen. Collins’s offer to end budget impasse"
 
D

Diablos

Member
JavyOO7 said:
Politico's red ticket at the top of their page says:

"Breaking News: Senate Dem leaders reject Sen. Collins’s offer to end budget impasse"
Click to expand...
Ruh roh.

Of all the GOP plans this was the most sane. I'm still confused as to how they'd make up for delaying the medical device tax.
 
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