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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
I hope the democrats learn from this how taking a firm stance can actually get concessions and better policy. They finally realized that they control most of the government. That is leverage.

‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
Another pt from Sen R cloakroom: They think Boehner is being way too cute w/ conf talk of putting this on Sen Rs, 'we're minority!' they say
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They're finally realizing this.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
I hope the democrats learn from this how taking a firm stance can actually get concessions and better policy. They finally realized that they control most of the government. That is leverage.
Click to expand...

Let's see just how much they have learned by the end deal. I'm still expecting them to cave on chained CPI, a short term debt ceiling increase, continuing sequester levels if not worse, and much much more. They've conditioned us to expect the worst and hope for nothing better.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
APKmetsfan said:
I hope the democrats learn from this how taking a firm stance can actually get concessions and better policy. They finally realized that they control most of the government. That is leverage.
Click to expand...

Plus if they make it look like the GOP loses, I think the base stays home next year. You can only fool them so much before they throw their hands up
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Black Mamba said:
Plus if they make it look like the GOP loses, I think the base stays home next year. You can only fool them so much before they throw their hands up
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The true base won't stay home, they see this as some apocalyptic battle to save the country. But the more 'moderate' part of the base (tea partiers who don't actually go to rallies and participate)

That scenario is even worse for them because it could lead to lots of incumbents losing for being RINOS
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
@sahilkapur 3m

Reid holds firm: "They're not doing us a favor by reopening the govt. They're not doing us a favor by extending the debt ceiling."
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k87n2o4
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
ridethepiggy said:
Or they get closer to a true rupture of the party and the base comes out in droves with a third party candidate.
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That's fine by me. Split the vote.

The true base won't stay home, they see this as some apocalyptic battle to save the country. But the more 'moderate' part of the base (tea partiers who don't actually go to rallies and participate)

That scenario is even worse for them because it could lead to lots of incumbents losing for being RINOS
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When I say "base," I don't mean the frothing at the mouth people. they will always be there no matter what.

But yeah, the ones who aren't frothing but still hate Obamacare and Obama.

You can only lose so much before you feel deflated and give up. This time next year Obamacare will be in full swing, the Dems will have multiple victories, etc. I think many of them will stay home.



edit: Nice to see that Reid gets it.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
ridethepiggy said:
BOOM! btw, if you want some quick laughs

Read the comments
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Holy SHIT. :lol!

My fav

Reality check...The slimdown backfired big time. Look how its divided us... we need unity to win national elections people!
Even though it wasn't really a "shutdown", that's what the lib media portrayed it as... every single person suffering right now because they didn't prepare is now being blamed on the conservatives. We actually went Backwards! on Obamacare with the people... New WSJ poll shows +8 support now for it because all the oxygen about OCs rollout failure and problems were ignored over this shutdown fight. One month ago we were united and Obama started to crack with the Syria fiasco, and now we have conservatives fighting other conservatives and nonconservatives.
You want to end Obamacare? DEFEAT Democrats!!! Keeping an indefinite "shutdown" until the Dems caved was never going to win... it would assume the GOP leadership wouldn't blink, and it makes us the ones responsible for hurting people--not Obambi. How do you Defeat Dems? Let Obamacare fail... they want it, let em choke on it. And it WILL fail. Then we run hard and fast in 2014, and in 2016, when the mandate is hurting people.. we elect GOP and the people beg us to repeal it. It will die if we do this right, but Sorry, Obamacare WILL NOT DIE THiS yEAR! The only thing we are doing now is boasting the very thing we are against.
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No. Obamacare fully phases in the freebies and single payer is the only exit plan, the one they designed in. Give em what they want is surrender.

Defeat more Democrats is just "surrender now and we'll show em in 2015... ok 2017... 2019.. oh well no getting rid of it now since it has been single payer for years." We have exactly what we need to stop it, total control of the checkbook.

Obamacare does not go without Republicans voting to borrow money to fund it. Every single House Republican won office at least once on a promise to rid us of it. Now is the time to hold them to their promise. Jan 1 we judge their word false unless they vote NO on any surrender, NO on any debt limit increase (extending past Jan 1) without a defund and NO on any leadership vote for the liars who cross the line.

Hold the line. Only Republicans can let Obamacare happen. We say NO and continue to say it until they blink.
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Let Obamacare fail? LOOOOOOOOOOOL

This is gonna backfire SPECTACULARLY
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
@robertcostaNRO 6m

They [senate GOP] think he lacks votes/will to back whatever emerges from Sen this wknd, even if Rs help cobble....
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@robertcostaNRO 1m

So he's stuck. No "out" that can win big House R supprt, pass Sen; if Sen plan comes to H floor, it'd get D maj, but few Rs, break his gavel
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Given the noise Ryan has made over the last couple days, and the onslaught of positive press he has received (from conservative media)....I'm really starting to believe Boehner might not make it to November 2014.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
saltlick 6t9boss
• 4 hours ago

−

Oh yeah, I worked like a dog for that '94 GOP victory. After we took Congress, I actually thought we might abolish the Department of Education. Heh.

But then I -- and I suspect millions like me (you?) -- said, "I detest this politics crap and I've done my duty and I'm going back to the farm and have a life. This Republic can run itself for a while."

The foxes and raccoons never stop watching the hen house; but we did.

But this time, like the Romans, we are going to level Carthage and sow salt in the ground.

In 2014, we are going to make 1994 look like a small thing. We are going to retake the party. We are going to put government on a budget. We are going to counterattack in academia and in our school systems and Hollywood.

"Yes Tea Party sent those good men but the Establishment "so called Conservative" media is tearing them up and marginalizing them."

But is abandoning those fighters the best way to help them and our cause?
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Passion.jpg
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.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/328185-house-gop-powwows-as-debt-limit-looms

“That’s something the Speaker will have to decide,” second-term Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-Va.) said. “But if the Senate trying to create a time crunch, that’s a time crunch that’s damaging to the American people.

Griffith suggested the House should reject an unfavorable agreement from the Senate, even if it resulted in a debt default that severely damaged the economy.

“We have to make a decision that’s right long-term for the United States, and what may be distasteful, unpleasant and not appropriate in the short run may be something that has to be done,” he said.

Griffith, a former majority leader of the Virginia House of Delegates, cited as an example the American Revolution.

“I will remind you that this group of renegades that decided that they wanted to break from the crown in 1776 did great damage to the economy of the colonies,” Griffith said. “They created the greatest nation and the best form of government, but they did damage to the economy in the short run.”
Click to expand...
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
another notable convo in Sen this morn: Rs warning Schumer, Ds that if they truly break Boehner here, possibility for any big leg fades...
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Whoa whoa whoa! Dems better pay attention. Imagine if Congress didn't vote on any large legislation going forward!?!?!?!?
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
saltlick • 8 hours ago
I have to admit to admiring the stamina and persistence of Progressives. Say what you will about people like Bill Ayers, they put it all on the line to tear down America, every day. They worked, they protested, they got arrested, classified as outlaws, struggled on when their cause seemed lost. They kept it up for 40 years. You've got to admire the devotion in their lives.

I want to match that devotion with the rest of my life, too. To take back my party and my country.
16 •Share ›
Avatar
ajshea saltlick • 6 hours ago
My great grandmother was known for never having an unkind word for anyone. One of her sons had a brilliant idea for getting her to break that reputation and asked her what she thought of the devil. Her instant reply was that she admired his persistence.

Unfortunately most conservatives don't have time to be persistent because they are busy building things, getting things done, creating wealth that the progressives squander. The progressives produce nothing, and spend no time to accomplish anything enduring: They spend all their time tearing down because their religion is power, not accomplishment.

If we stopped building, doing and creating we would have time to fight fire with water. As has been noted before, the political battle is asymmetrical, and it will continue until the Prince of Peace puts an end to all our petty squabbles.
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TadkV.gif
TadkV.gif


I'm in tears! The Cognitive Dissonance is just...
KuGsj.gif
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
daveweigel ‏@daveweigel 3m
Schumer says a bipartisan deal in the Senate would force the House's hand. @samsteinhp asks: "Like immigration reform?" Everyone laughs.
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Oh ho ho.

Boehner's career looks pretty much over. I don't see how he survives this debacle. That's what you get for bringing a libertardian philosophy to your speakership.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Republican senators, eager for a way out of a shutdown fight that has roiled their party’s brand, reacted to the leadership discussions positively, believing that the two crafty dealmakers could concoct a proposal to reopen the government and avert the nation’s first-ever default as soon as next week.

Reid, however, was notably more dour.
When asked if he is confident he could reach a deal with McConnell, Reid told POLITICO: “No.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...l-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98221.html
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Heh.
 
R

rocketknight

Member
That redstate link is a treasure trove:
We've needed this fight for a while. It's going to stink. As repugnant as the example might be, this reminds me of how the French revolutionaries had to deal with internal strife AND repel outside invasions.
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Can't help but laugh at this compared to Santorum's own French Revolution reference, haha. It's the exact opposite. Continuing:

We're going to have to fight a two-front war: we have to purge the RINOs, the GOPe consultant class and the current 'leaders' of the party. Simultaneously, we have to continue to fight the leftists, who want to finish putting a stake through the heart of this country. And worst of all, we must deal with an especially devious element: those Republicans who, once primaried/defeated will, during a lame duck session, aid the dim-ocrats in hastening the destruction of our nation. Do we just first primary only the worst and keep the others in check by example, so that there are not enough angry losers to take a lame-duck pot shot at the country? Or do we just do one big purge, bite the bullet in the lame duck process, and begin a fierce counterattack? These are serious questions we'd better start addressing NOW.

If we can pull this off, it will be a Herculean effort, one to be proud to be a part of. Our nation needs us; past generations of Americans are watching from on high, and there are many young people watching us, looking for some sort of inspiration, leadership and direction towards a bright future. Our efforts must honor our forefathers, and our example must set a standard for the youth.

We'd best not fail.
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T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Today is surreal. Just yesterday I read where Senator McCain was saying he regretted using the words "whacko birds" to describe fellow Republicans that he disagreed with, bemoaning how Republicans are attacking Republicans more than Democrats these days. Then today he's back out on his Maverick tour again, stating that "those behind the DEFUND OBAMACARE strategy must be held accountable."
So much for his disdain of Republicans bashing other Republicans.

Well I've got my checkbook out, Senator McCain and I've got a message for you, your sycophant Lindsey Graham, John Cornyn, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Peter King, Karl Rove, the RNC and all those DC consultants and pollsters you listen to so intently (because it sure isn't us). The message is direct and easy to read so you won't misinterpret it. Even your bonehead daughter can understand it, Senator McCain.

YOU WANT A WAR? WE WILL GIVE YOU A WAR!

On a day when you and your sell-out, elitist friends in the GOP can't wait to bend over backwards to surrender to this smug president when you were holding all the cards, how dare you threaten fellow Republicans elected by WE THE PEOPLE to actually represent us and not their own selfish interests.
We WILL hold people accountable sir, starting with your cohorts in leadership who so disdain and disregard us, the little people of this great land. I'm begging you to please, PLEASE go campaign with Senator Graham. Stand shoulder to shoulder with him and remind the voters of SC who Lindsey really represents. It is all you, you and Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn and Peter King. If there is any of us in that crowd, we are on the sidelines as you run the wrong way, scoring for the other team.
And to the RNC, if you go after Tea Party candidates in their districts, then watch us redouble our efforts and output in every single district that an establishment member of your club thinks he/she is safe in. There won't be any safe districts anymore, the Tea Party will rally and put you all out of office with our dollars, our voices, our passion and our votes. Tell your friends to enjoy what time they have left in the beltway screwing their constituents, you sniveling lout.

It amazes me. A political party that will go after their own base and not the opposition party, who is the enemy.

This is WAR.
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GOP Civil War is a go!

GO GO GO
 
D

Diablos

Member
Tea Party folks sure talk a lot of shit -- but next year when Wall Street backs establishment candidates and the Koch brothers have a fairly wounded reputation no one will give a fuck.

But, PLEASE, by all means -- fight your "WAR". Raise money from outside groups who align themselves with Cruz, Palin, et. al. Make it a three way race in numerous House and Senate primaries.

PLEASE!
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
IGSaint said:
Yeah I'm not so sure that democrats should be open to removing the medical device tax as it will give republicans a talking point that obamacare is adding to the deficit, especially a year from now when they have to rev up their base for the 2014 elections. I think the best thing would just be a clean cr and debt limit raise.
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Fuck man....Getting rid of that tax might even be good. It's terrible that even commonsense shit like that and the employer mandate can't even be talked about because of political implications
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
Fuck man....Getting rid of that tax might even be good. It's terrible that even commonsense shit like that and the employer mandate can't even be talked about because of political implications
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But it is what it is. And why should the medical tax be removed? Because the companies threaten to pass the tax on to the customer? Screw that.
 
A

Arde5643

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
Fuck man....Getting rid of that tax might even be good. It's terrible that even commonsense shit like that and the employer mandate can't even be talked about because of political implications
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In a healthy political environment where compromises and talks happen multilaterally, it's definitely something that should be addressed.

It's so sad how far away we are from what even constitutes a barely minimum working political environment.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
PhoenixPause said:
Given the noise Ryan has made over the last couple days, and the onslaught of positive press he has received (from conservative media)....I'm really starting to believe Boehner might not make it to November 2014.
Click to expand...

Has Ryan and Boehner ever disagreed on anything? Seems like it'd be more of the same for republicans. That's fine in my eyes, I certainly don't want a true tea party Speaker, but it sounds weird to me that they'd feel like that change would accomplish anything.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
APKmetsfan said:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/328185-house-gop-powwows-as-debt-limit-looms
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I can't believe that's a US Congressman and not another Red State poster. Let me get this straight... the founders created the GREATEST GOVERNMENT ON EARTH with their magical hands, so in order to protect it we must completely shit all over their original intention by holding the government and the nation's debt hostage because we don't like a duly passed law that was upheld by all three branches of government.

I just.... head hurts...
 
D

Diablos

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Values Voters straw poll
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Meaningless at this point, but entertaining nonetheless.

If Cruz is solidified as the man who crashed and burned the GOP strategy to cockblock Obama's Presidency, welp...

It may prove to not pay off in the future as someone, while sharing the same crazy views, but more disciplined (such as Paul or Rubio) takes the helm of the message.
 
R

Riki

Member
Infighting in the GOP is amazing. I knew it was coming, but the fact that what they did is causing it is all the better.
Split your parties and fall into obscurity.
 
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