Invisible_Insane
Member
Chicken dinner.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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TacticalFox88
Banned
empty vessel
Member
They wouldn't. The GOP doesn't care about debt (which, again, is a good thing!). It cares about preventing social assistance to black people (bad thing). That's it.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Collins: All we asked for is a full repeal of Obamacare in exchange for a 3 month debt ceiling raise. How is that unreasonable?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Come on dude. They're worried because the ball has moved from Reid to Obama. He has already broken the "no negotiations" mantra, and now he's looking at ten republicans with a "compromise" plan, begging him to sign it. I smell a cave, but I'll wait for more details.
A six month government funding bill would mean that the government would run out of funding in April 2014, right as primary season begins. Who thinks that's a good idea? Let's not forget that despite the WSJ poll, house republicans still want to keep the government shut (as leverage for the 6 week DL lift). Things will be worse in spring 2014 when they're really trying to fend off primary opponents.
We shouldn't have this battle again until after next year's election. Any agreement that doesn't meet that requirement should be rejected, period.
The Senate just killed the Democratic clean debt ceiling increase.
Not surprising, really. Now that the Senate GOP has a plan to unify around they have no interest in going with Reid's clean increase.
edit: Meanwhile, Reid is a no on the Collins plan because it keeps spending at $986b and doesn't have a long enough CR or debt ceiling hike.
Not surprising, really. Now that the Senate GOP has a plan to unify around they have no interest in going with Reid's clean increase.
edit: Meanwhile, Reid is a no on the Collins plan because it keeps spending at $986b and doesn't have a long enough CR or debt ceiling hike.
Black Mamba
Member
Reid just rejected the Collins senate plan so that's dead too. It was a horrible deal.
Now Reid and McConnell are talking.
If they bump the Collins plan to $1.1t I think I'd take it.
Black Mamba
Member
There's no reason to accept anything yet. The GOP keeps moving closer and closer. We went from no obamacare to reforming Medicare to repeal medical device tax.
Keep holding the line. At no point have the dems been given anything they've wanted that the GOP doesn't also want. Until then why agree? Keep letting the GOP reduce their demands.
Edit: I would too pigeon. But that is an actual concession! We don't have one yet.
Keep holding the line. At no point have the dems been given anything they've wanted that the GOP doesn't also want. Until then why agree? Keep letting the GOP reduce their demands.
Edit: I would too pigeon. But that is an actual concession! We don't have one yet.
cartoon_soldier
Member
That Collins plan was horrible.
I want at least an year long extension of both.
I want at least an year long extension of both.
Black Mamba
Member
I would say no to this too. Shutdown and DL aren't concessions. Unless the dems get more spending or tax revenues they shouldn't agree to anything. Except a clean raise of course.
Edit. Thread title: this thread under threat of shutdown if it reaches it's post limit
Or
OT: defund pigeoncare or thread shutdown imminent
PhoenixDark
Banned
Negotiations are now between Obama, Reid, and McConnell. Good. The Collins plan is insulting, given the position republicans are in. It reeks of stupid bipartisanship that overlooks policy.
Only dangerous thing now is that McConnell is in a tough spot politically due to his primary opponent.
BTW Paul Ryan is rallying the troops in the House by attacking the senate. Bets on him becoming next Speaker in 2014?
Only dangerous thing now is that McConnell is in a tough spot politically due to his primary opponent.
BTW Paul Ryan is rallying the troops in the House by attacking the senate. Bets on him becoming next Speaker in 2014?
Officerrob
Banned
Apparently House Republicans were not happy with that Collins plan, which was an absolute joke for Democrats. We have a long way to go to get a deal done if House Republicans were not willing to do that Collins deal
PhoenixDark
Banned
The house is irrelevant. What are they going to do, reject the senate bill and force default? They lost, it's over.
You can't hold a hostage you're unwilling to kill.
When whatever bill the Senate agrees on goes back to the House, Boehner should just put it on the floor...
Black Mamba
Member
He will have to because it would be a compromise. Him failing to do so and a default would guarantee a dem house.
TestOfTide
Banned
Is there a reason reonciliation can't be used for the limit hike? Raising it would be deficit neutral, right?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They could use the nuke option
RustyNails
Member
Wolf Blitzer and Erin Burnett are going to be insufferable over this
empty vessel
Member
Probably more accurate to say that Republicans just filibustered a bill to raise the debt limit.
You mean more than usual?
I can't even watch Burnett, yea she's hot but my rage won't let me not throw things randomly when she talks.
Especially changes on funding. Democrats are so stupid and short-sighted
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm surprised Reid even carried through with the vote, given what's happening today. Of course republicans were going to reject it, they're negotiating right now.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Which is why negotiations were stupid. Demand clean bills, then start them.
i wonder if we'd be looking at the same result if the white house had kept its mouth shut.
There's no reason not to. It's cloture, he has to hold the vote or lose it. Getting the GOP on the record as filibustering a clean debt ceiling increase five days before default isn't nothing.
I think we would -- the Senate GOP has been pushing hard for a "solution" this week specifically to avoid getting jammed by Reid and having to pass the clean ceiling hike because they have no options. It doesn't really matter what the solution is, but they had to have something to point to as "their" bill.
ridethepiggy
Banned
It just amazes me how any Democrat would even entertain chained CPI for subsidies. WTF is the IRS for then? At the end of the year if you received a subsidy based on a lower income than you actually earned you will owe the difference. Just offensive that any democratic Senator would entertain this shit. And 40 hour requirement instead of 30? Yea, it sounds good because then you'd assume that those employer's bitching about the ACA forcing their hand to lower their workers hours would relent but instead they'd just lower the hours of the 40 hour employees.
Well hopefully Boner came to his senses; the New Republic article which states the TP caucus' sole purpose is to more or less "fuck shit up" tells us all of our concerns about their intent is completely valid.
Yeah I'm not so sure that democrats should be open to removing the medical device tax as it will give republicans a talking point that obamacare is adding to the deficit, especially a year from now when they have to rev up their base for the 2014 elections. I think the best thing would just be a clean cr and debt limit raise.
The problem is that selfish Democrats who have been lobbied by the medical device makers in their states don't care. You can't start messing with the funding like this because it only emboldens people who want to DEFUND the law!
PhoenixDark
Banned
Agreed. Chained CPI cuts the deficit by 345b over ten years, at the expense of taking food out the mouths of old people. I don't see how any democrat, especially a democrat president, can support such nonsense. Or worse yet, continually bring it up.
40 hours...eh, just scrap the employer mandate entirely.
Black Mamba
Member
Not to mention this is at a time when bank interest rates are shit and old people used to depend on those. SS should be off the table.
As for employer mandate, a repeal will lead to demands of individual repeal too. They need to wait a year at least. Or modify it.
Giant Panda
Member
|OT3| Cruzing For a Bruising
rocketknight
Member
PoliGAF OT3: This is not some damn game!
Cruzifiction of the GOP (h/t to Dana Milibank)
PhoenixDark
Banned
Oh I definitely agree, I wouldn't get rid of any aspect of Obamacare right now. In a year the law should be relatively stable, and I could understand scrapping bad parts (employer mandate).
ridethepiggy
Banned
I agree with the employer mandate. We should get rid of it EVENTUALLY. The more we do to separate insurance from employment the better we all will be.
rocketknight
Member
I don't see the House going along with that even a year from now. At that point they want to law to remain as stupid as possible, so they'll continue to take an all-or-nothing tack. It's also easy to spin it as taking the onus off of companies and dropping the boot onto the back of poor hardworking individuals.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Best way to do that is Single Payer.
The next time Dems hold all three branches of government, they better remember this crap and the first thing they do is rid the country of this damn debt ceiling crap or, at the very least, adopt McConnell's proposal for it so that members can at least politically register their opposition to a raise without actually having the power to make it happen.
ridethepiggy
Banned
Agreed. I will say that I am not opposed at all to having insurance companies there offer additional benefits, etc., but every person in this country should have basic coverage from the moment of birth until they die.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Hold the line a bit longer. This isn't just about setting precedent on presidents not being blackmailed by the debt ceiling/government shutdown, it's about setting a precedent for the consequences of such an action. Boehner is going to lose his caucus' respect, and thus be irrelevant in DC, if democrats hold firm.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
ridethepiggy
Banned
Yep, but Obama...
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The senate is its own beast, they have to consent. Right now they're trying to keep the white house far far away.
Black Mamba
Member
Oh man, Boehner's Caucus looking limp.
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