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[NYCmetsfan]

And do you really think the GOP will budge and adopt the Senate's position? Please. This whole fiasco is like a gift to them. I'd be super happy if I were a Republican right now.

Let's see how they do politically defending the insurance industry.

 

[Diablos]

Also I think with immigration reform, ENDA and $10 minimum wage the Dems can galvanize a lot of support from groups that would otherwise stay at home in a midterm.

Uhh... maybe.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Also I think with immigration reform, ENDA and $10 minimum wage the Dems can galvanize a lot of support from groups that would otherwise stay at home in a midterm.

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Also I think with immigration reform, ENDA and $10 minimum wage the Dems can galvanize a lot of support from groups that would otherwise stay at home in a midterm.

Exactly, races aren't truly won in the middle any more. There won by bases and supporters turning out and voting. Most of those groups are going to benefit from health care. They're not going to vote on a candidate because a well-to-do lady went on humanity complaining about obamacare.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

I like how you say those can't pass then pivot to saying killing sequestration can pass the house. Don't you get nothing will pass without crisis forcing it? I don't care how much Graham and McCain want to buy more guns they're not influential in the house.

Like it or not the best way anything thing happens is a unified congress the first chance for that is 2014. Focusing on 'go-nowhere bills' probably does more to help the country than chasing any kind of budget deal.

 

[gcubed]

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

I thought you wanted a jobs bill because that would pass. Too bad we don't live in the PD world where shit like that happens.

I mean I have to assume your post was a joke of the highest order

 

[Diablos]

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

A jobs bill sure would be nice.

I thought you wanted a jobs bill because that would pass. Too bad we don't live in the PD world where shit like that happens.

I mean I have to assume your post was a joke of the highest order

Would it really hurt to have a jobs bill assuming the GOP doesn't turn it into a poison pill?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Would it really hurt to have a jobs bill assuming the GOP doesn't turn it into a poison pill?

 

[Diablos]

>:|

 

[gcubed]

Would it really hurt to have a jobs bill assuming the GOP doesn't turn it into a poison pill?

I'd like a blow job a day bill but that won't pass either

 

[Aaron Strife]

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

More like a year and two months.

 

[Diablos]

I'd like a blow job a day bill but that won't pass either

Point taken...

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'd like a blow job a day bill but that won't pass either

Depends on what kind of Bill

 

[Jooney]

Three items that won't pass in the next 3 years? I'd rather see democrats work to do something about the economy that can actually pass, specifically killing sequestration.

I wouldn't expect Republicans in the House to move on the MW or ENDA, but they flipping the bird to immigration reform goes to show that they are not interested in passing any legislation this session. I have next to no confidence that the House would pass a jobs bill, or a small business tax relief bill - even one where Obama has not gotten involved - as they are simply not interested in passing any legislation that might be considered an accomplishment for the administration.

At this rate you'll have to wait till the next opportunity for a unified congress (2016

Spoiler

or 2014 if we be strifing

) to get any major legislative accomplishment passed.

 

[gcubed]

Depends on what kind of Bill

yeah, as a wrote that i did think that there were a lot of misogynistic men in congress, enough to probably pass that bill

 

[WayneMorse]

Do you think the White House realizes how important gaining back control of the House next year is to their legacy?

 

[gcubed]

so the numbers quoted for California were only 25,000 off...

California’s health insurance exchange said more than 59,000 people have signed up for coverage through Tuesday as part of the Affordable Care Act.

Earlier Wednesday, federal officials reported that 35,364 Californians had enrolled in private health plans through Nov. 2. California said its updated figures through Tuesday show that consumer interest is building.

California officials said an additional 72,007 people were deemed eligible for an expansion of Medi-Cal, the state’s Medicaid program for the poor.

http://www.latimes.com/business/mon...llment-20131113,0,4973991.story#axzz2kaMIkrKC

 

[Aaron Strife]

yeah, as a wrote that i did think that there were a lot of misogynistic men in congress, enough to probably pass that bill

The Bill I was thinking of isn't in Congress... yet.

 

[The Librarian]

The Democrats are talking about voting for the Upton bill which would gut the law, so yeah, it will hurt. I don't know how letting people keep under-insurance policies helps them financially, or supports the long-term viability of the health care law. We're talking about re-instating bad policy just to save some political face.

Eh. I think that's more stemming from a lack of leadership than anything else. Pelosi and Reid aren't sure how to react to this – they're probably waiting to hear what Obama has to say – so red-state Democrats are scrambling to cover their own asses.

You've had the president and democrats go on the stump and assure that the website will be ready by the december deadline. You've had the president apologise to the people who have had their plans cancelled.

Not sure how the first point is a bad thing, but Obama apologizing for his promise was the right thing to do. In the end, people who are seeing their shitty plans cancelled is a good thing – it is, after all, a feature of ACA – but the promise was out of line.

 

[Sibylus]

Well, TPP sounds like a load of arse. Emailing the Queen.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Upton said today that he likes the Landrieu bill more than his own. Which seems to me like him basically saying "the senate bill can pass, mine can't."

Landrieu's bill is better politics. Erick erickson was actually right this morning. Landrieu is playing this smart for herself.

@jorgeramosnews
Hoy el lider Republicano @SpeakerBoehner mató la reforma migratoria para este año. Los latinos se acordarán en las proximas elecciones

"Today the Republican Leader killed immigration reform for this year, Latinos will remember this for the next elections."

But Obamacare!

 

[WayneMorse]

Wow I'm actually meeting a growing number of people who just want to go to a single payer system lately.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/11/1...obamacares-goal-was-to-punish-healthy-people/

That means that the genetic winners, the lottery winners, who’ve been paying their artificially low price because of this discrimination, now will have to pay more in return.

"Told you"

 

[Fenderputty]

I'd like a blow job a day bill but that won't pass either

Better shot at passing than a jobs bill.

 

[empty vessel]

And yes, people should be able to keep whatever shitty plan they signed up for. Many people cannot afford the "better" coverage on the exchange. They make too much money for Medicaid, nor are they eligible for subsidies. This is not some academic issue or any place for elitist views on what people should be forced to do. If you like your insurance plan, you should be able to keep your insurance plan. Those shitty plans should be grandfathered.

Nah. Deregulation is what Republicans do. If somebody making 45k can't afford to spend $200/month on health insurance, then the fix should obviously be to expand the subsidies further (or to enact single payer), not to deregulate the health insurance industry. You are advocating right-wing policy.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Landrieu's bill is better politics. Erick erickson was actually right this morning. Landrieu is playing this smart for herself.

The Landrieu bill doesn't sound too bad on policy, I can't imagine it affects a significant majority of the population. If it passes Obama just gets to say "See? I know our bill is imperfect, but I hope we can work with Republicans in the future to improve it"

 

[ISOM]

Do you think the White House realizes how important gaining back control of the House next year is to their legacy?

Is this a serious question? Jesus..

 

[Aaron Strife]

Is this a serious question? Jesus..

At one point I think Obama believed if he could get immigration reform or a grand bargain done while Republicans ran the House, it would cement his legacy as a centrist, post-partisan president, who worked with both parties and got things done, which the media would love.

But you can tell he's kind of over it. If he really wanted a grand bargain he would have offered it to Boehner back during the fiscal cliff debate when Boehner was asking for it. He knows he'll have a legacy regardless of how willing Republicans are to work with him in the future, he may as well try for a Democratic House in 2014 and get some shit done. Or at least cut into the Republicans' majority enough that Boehner can't get away with shitcanning all of his proposals on sight.

 

[Black Mamba]

You don't get it. This isn't jumping on or "piling on" the law. It's addressing a problem that needs to be fixed. Millions of people are losing their health coverage, and they cannot sign up on the website because it's fubar. We're discussing ways to fix that while some on the left act like nothing is wrong.

And yes, people should be able to keep whatever shitty plan they signed up for. Many people cannot afford the "better" coverage on the exchange. They make too much money for Medicaid, nor are they eligible for subsidies. This is not some academic issue or any place for elitist views on what people should be forced to do. If you like your insurance plan, you should be able to keep your insurance plan. Those shitty plans should be grandfathered.

Maybe one day the ACA will work for people in this donut hole. Until then they should not be punished with significantly higher premiums and deductibles.

The Upton bill would allow insurance companies to continue selling junk policies. That's unacceptable. I like the senate bill more, which would simply allow people with junk policies to keep them, but not allow new junk policies to be sold - something that should have been in the law from day one.

You just can't let people stay on these plans. Do you not understand that the current prices assume these people would be moved off those old plans. If they were allowed to keep it, then the exchanges would have higher prices.

Not only that, but companies would leave the exchange because the people currently with shitty plans are healthy people with lower risk and the people entering the exchanges who previously did not have insurance are higher risk. If the low risk people keep their shitty plan with low premiums and the new high risk people get comprehensive coverage at a reduced rate, the insurance companies collapse. If they raise the prices to compensate (despite how late in the game it is), Obamacare collapses because not enough people will join (prices would skyrocket, see: NY). If they leave the exchanges all together, it collapses.

Furthermore, the law would have to require insurance companies offer those plans. But here's the kicker. They don't want to under the new rules. All these people that got their "cancellation letters" are done. Why would an insurance company take them back under the old price when it makes no sense? They want them on the exchange. And now the question becomes, if the federal government forces these companies to keep the people (which is very different from "allowing" people to keep their plan), these companies will sue and I bet they'd win in court (regardless, it would tie up everything for a long time).


You want a fix? here's a simple fucking fix. Everyone who got a "cancellation" notice has the choice of going on the exchange and purchasing a Silver Plan for their income level and the feds will subsidize the plan to the point that they pay the same rate they paid this past year + 3% increase each year. Just fucking subsidize the difference. If they choose a non-silver plan, they're on their own. If they ever change their plan in the future, they're on their own. They get an open enrollment period to take a silver plan at their current rate and that's that.

None of this bullshit that fucking ruins the market. The Democrats who are panicking are beholden to their damn politics instead of common sense. These things cannot be dealt with by morons who don't understand how these prices are determined and what effect these laws have on the markets.


yeah, it sucks that Obama's "promise" was a bit misunderstood and also mistated and the website problems have made this into a story. But this is yet another point where Obama didn't stand up for himself strongly.

He should have defended it and said "When I said that, I was talking about people who had their plans in 2010 that wouldn't change significantly. I was also talking about the fact that the government wouldn't take over you insurance. I never claimed that insurance companies wouldn't change your policies to adhere to the new rules, something insurance companies have done forever. Unfortunately, the market deems those policies be removed so that the whole system works out better. I understand that for those receiving these letters it is a scary time but for most of them they will get better coverage and often times at a cheaper price when they go on the exchange. Some will have to pay more and I urge Congress to pass a bill to subsidize these folks specifically if they want to fix that and I'd sign it tomorrow. But I stand by what I said and I stand by what the ACA does to the entire system. The status quo was unacceptable and it's time we move forward."

No, instead Obama tells everyone he's sorry and is scrambling to save face. Fucking hell, Obama has no Teddy Roosevelt in him and that's what we needed these last 5 years.


And yes, we should be discussing what is going on in Congress. But I'm sick & tired of all this talk about the 2014 election regarding the website now or this. NO ONE KNOWS SHIT. When August of next year rolls around, we'll have a clearer picture. Will people be signed up in march? Will the goal be met? This is what matters, not whether the website is working today.

That's why I said this thread has become almost unbearable all of a sudden. The website sucks. There's nothing any of us can do about it unless you're a programmer and have real suggestions to make.

 

[Black Mamba]

Phil Galewitz @philgalewitz

More than 120K people in states NOT expanding Medicaid have enrolled in Medicaid last month via federal exchange-- Woodwork effect

lol.

For those that don't know, the Woodwork effect is this:

Currently, there are a lot of people eligible for Medicaid prior to the Medicaid expansion and prior to the ACA passage (let alone the exchanged and expansions kicking in in 2014). These people have no signed up for Medicaid, however, for whatever reason (not realizing they qualify, for example).

The Woodwork Effect is this idea that because of the expansion and exchanges, a lot of these Medicaid qualified people without expansion would start applying for Medicaid (coming out of the woodwork) thinking they only just now qualify. Here's the kicker - states that haven't expanded medicaid will accept these people on Medicaid because these people qualify without an expansion in their respective states.

What this means is that states who rejected the expansion will see a large rise in the Medicaid pool without receiving a single dime of additional funds from the Federal Government. This costs a lot of money, obviously.

States that didn't expand Medicaid will have a large rise in Medicaid recipients and footing the entire bill of the increase. This is in addition to these states footing a lot of the bill for people w/o insurance going to the ER.

120k in these states in the first month is nothing to sneeze at. This is a large number and would mean the Woodwork Effect appears to be correct. What if this number hits 500k? Or 1 million come April 1? That number is pretty fucking huge and would put a dent into the states' budgets.

One has to wonder if this continues if it would basically force medicaid expansion in these states because otherwise they cannot sustain their budgets. Especially in a place like Texas.

This is great news. Not only are people getting insurance they didn't realize they could have had years ago, but it puts massive pressure on the states to expand Medicaid even further! It seems it will only be a matter of time until they cave.

 

[Oblivion]

lol.

For those that don't know, the Woodwork effect is this:

Currently, there are a lot of people eligible for Medicaid prior to the Medicaid expansion and prior to the ACA passage (let alone the exchanged and expansions kicking in in 2014). These people have no signed up for Medicaid, however, for whatever reason (not realizing they qualify, for example).

The Woodwork Effect is this idea that because of the expansion and exchanges, a lot of these Medicaid qualified people without expansion would start applying for Medicaid (coming out of the woodwork) thinking they only just now qualify. Here's the kicker - states that haven't expanded medicaid will accept these people on Medicaid because these people qualify without an expansion in their respective states.

What this means is that states who rejected the expansion will see a large rise in the Medicaid pool without receiving a single dime of additional funds from the Federal Government. This costs a lot of money, obviously.

States that didn't expand Medicaid will have a large rise in Medicaid recipients and footing the entire bill of the increase. This is in addition to these states footing a lot of the bill for people w/o insurance going to the ER.

120k in these states in the first month is nothing to sneeze at. This is a large number and would mean the Woodwork Effect appears to be correct. What if this number hits 500k? Or 1 million come April 1? That number is pretty fucking huge and would put a dent into the states' budgets.

One has to wonder if this continues if it would basically force medicaid expansion in these states because otherwise they cannot sustain their budgets. Especially in a place like Texas.

This is great news. Not only are people getting insurance they didn't realize they could have had years ago, but it puts massive pressure on the states to expand Medicaid even further! It seems it will only be a matter of time until they cave.

Haha, holy shit. That's awesome.

The solution to this, I imagine, is for Republican governors to further cut their medicaid budgets to prevent those previously eligible people from being able to sign up.

 

[Jooney]

Black mamba comin in with some of that real talk.

 

[RustyNails]

black mamba 2016

 

[The Librarian]

@haroldpollack: Healthcare.gov trouble reminds me of LBJ insight: "Sometimes, like a mule in the rain, you just have to stand there and take it."

.

 

[BertramCooper]

So what the hell does Bill Clinton think he's doing?

I kind of want to strangle him right now. Obama fucked up big time by making that stupid promise, but letting people stay on their shitty plans would completely break the law.

 

[FyreWulff]

So what the hell does Bill Clinton think he's doing?

I kind of want to strangle him right now. Obama fucked up big time by making that stupid promise, but letting people stay on their shitty plans would completely break the law.

And thus the calculated separation of Hillary from Obama begins

 

[BertramCooper]

And thus the calculated separation of Hillary from Obama begins

That was my first instinct - that it had something to do with distancing himself and Hillary from Obama before her run - but what he's proposing would completely bust the law, and make health care a verboten issue for decades.

Given Hillary's past advocacy on the issue, is that really what the Clintons want?

 

[Diablos]

So what the hell does Bill Clinton think he's doing?

I kind of want to strangle him right now. Obama fucked up big time by making that stupid promise, but letting people stay on their shitty plans would completely break the law.

He's being Bill Clinton: Republican Lite.

If they let only the people who got cancellation notices this year stay on their shitty plan indefinitely, I can't see how it would totally break the law. However, if they would pass something like the Upton bill, the ACA is doomed etc.

 

[The Librarian]

President will be out with a proposal today.

 

[Diablos]

My body is ready.

Seriously, this is going to be another epic Congressional showdown. Republicans will probably end up denouncing the Landrieu bill and go with Upton's or something that totally guts the ACA.

They must be so giddy right now.

---

Mary Landrieu not ‘hiding’ from Obama
By: Burgess Everett
November 13, 2013 01:56 PM EST

Sen. Mary Landrieu said Wednesday that she is not trying to run away from President Barack Obama.

The Louisiana Democrat strongly pushed back on the suggestion by a reporter that she may have made a political calculation last week not to appear with the president at an event on boosting exports — even though Landrieu flew down to New Orleans with Obama on Air Force One.

Landrieu, who is up for reelection next year in conservative Louisiana, said if she wanted to distance herself from Obama, she wouldn’t have hitched a ride on his plane.

“Did I hide from him, did you see me hiding? Was I smiling and waving with the president?” Landrieu said as she entered a Democratic lunch. “If I wanted to hide I wouldn’t have been there.”

Damage control already starting.

 

[The Librarian]

President will be out with a proposal today.

@frankthorpNBC: JUST ANNOUNCED: At 11:35am President Obama will deliver a statement on the Affordable Care Act

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 13m
Boehner will host a press briefing at 11:30am today. Will be interesting to hear about the status of Upton bill, his Obamacare strategy

Dueling press briefings!

 

[teiresias]

Dueling press briefings!

Won't be much to duel about once Obama announces his instigating single-payer via executive order!!!!!

 

[Diablos]

Won't be much to duel about once Obama announces his instigating single-payer via executive order!!!!!

Wishful thinking I take it.

And that would be a horrible idea.

 

[Cloudy]

Won't be much to duel about once Obama announces his instigating single-payer via executive order!!!!!

Would something like that be feasible? As in a public option via executive order

 

[Diablos]

Would something like that be feasible? As in a public option via executive order

Hahaha the outcry from the right would be glorious.

 

[teiresias]

Wishful thinking I take it.

And that would be a horrible idea.

I'm obviously joking. Geez.

 

[xnipx]

How much would it cost to mail every person in the country a packet of information with a healthcare application and a table showing subsidized prices and the income limits? Seriously. Fuck the website

I didn't sign up for my healthcare at work using the Internet.

 

[Cloudy]

Details on the administrative fix:

The plan would allow people to keep their plans into 2014 but require insurers to let consumers know how — if at all — their policies don’t comply with the minimum benefits of the Affordable Care Act, according to a source briefed on the proposal.

There is also expected to be some adjustment to risk pools to offset the change, the source said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/obamacare-fix-white-house-99862.html#ixzz2kdNYr6Jn

Seems like the best thing that can be done w/o gutting the law which some short-sighted Dems are inclined to do

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think I'm coming around to liking the Landrieu (Udall's might be better because it has an end date) approach. Its not ideal, I'll say that. But it has a lot of upsides.

Politically, it takes away the GOP strategy of doing nothing and reaping benefits. It muddies the debate which takes away the media narrative that the GOP is winning which I think calms some dems.

It also forces the GOP to put up or shut up and they often blow this. They'll overreach, we have a shutdown looming and Ted Cruz or some house member will propose scraping the law because its "not working". Poll after poll shows FIXING the law is popular not repealing it. Staying the course on things like medicaid and the subsidies are more important the top line premium numbers.

Landrieus plan if it ever becomes law also forces the companies to state why their plan isn't up to snuff which I think pushes people to the exchange more than people are expecting, the time table also is going to push people there, there just isn't much time for people to now be informed they can keep their plan.