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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout
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WayneMorse
Banned
Who's running against Branstad in Iowa? The Iowa Dems made a good choice in picking Braley so I hope they found someone good for the governors race.
The governor is signing the bill on the 20th, hence the comment on the 20th and why Illinois hasn't been updated yet on the map.
EDIT: Beaten like Kay Hagan in 2014
Colorado has a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. My guess is that CO and OH will join Nevada in voting on the issue in 2016 with a new constitutional amendment.
The fact that you can say this with a straight face is what is unbearable. Sometimes I feel PoliGAF is wasted on you. Your ability to totally forget what you have said in days gone by you qualifies you to be a national pundit. Or at least someone who worked in the Romney campaign.
No, just no.
Liberals / democrats should not be jumping in on the piling on of the health care law. Stop framing the discussion within the parameters set by the republicans.
The website problems are not going to be enduring; they will be fixed soon.
The idea that cancelled plans should be grandfathered in should not be entertained in the slightest - giving people under-insurance is bad policy that does nothing to drive down costs and in the end destroys families financially and makes you and everyone else pick up the slack. Remember, before the health care law, more than half of all bankruptcies were due to health care costs; two thirds of those were people who had health insurance. Insurance companies selling people bullshit insurance plans that cover nothing is not acceptable.
Democrats should be out there saying that the status quo before the health care law was unacceptable, and that the republicans want to take us back to the day when health insruance was bankrupting people, where people could be kicked off for having a pre-exisitng conditions, and was driving up the deficit at faster and faster rates. Oh, and they should kindly point out that the republicans have zero plans on health care. None. Nada. Zilch. So put up or shut up.
These guys get it.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I don't know of any candidates, although Branstad is pretty popular iirc. Since Iowa already has gay marriage in this instance it's not terribly important to elect a Democrat there, especially with the State Senate stonewalling any attempt at a constitutional amendment.
I've heard the Dems' plan was to put the amendment on the ballot for 2014, with the civil unions bill just a temporary measure until that was dealt with. This article says they're pushing it to 2016 though. It also mentions Utah... um, good luck with that.
Nevada only has to wait until 2016 because amendments need to pass in successive legislatures. Otherwise I'm sure they'd have the votes.
There's a court case in Virginia and Boies and Olson represent the prosecution. Shit's about to go down.
The Librarian
Banned
I expect the same to happen for healthcare.gov once things get up and running.
I disagree with this under a certain context. If you're leaving it up to only Republicans responding and expressing outrage, the Administration's response wouldn't be as urgent and the pressure to fix it wouldn't be as great. Not only that, it'd create a false barrier of success: the whole healthcare law is a disaster vs. only the website. The White House is more likely to listen to Democratic complaints about the law than Republican ones because they're mostly feigning outrage.
As Brian Beutler wrote a couple of weeks ago:
If were really not facing the possibility that the site wont be working by early next year, why would the laws flexibility matter?
Being sanguine about these issues wont get them resolved any faster, and wont do anything to prevent the administration from becoming dispirited and letting the window they have to buoy the system close.
No matter what the press has done, nobody whos actually in the market for insurance would have mistaken the rollout for a success, and what ultimately matters is making sure the website becomes a reliable service for consumers. Without enough consumers the law wont work right and if it doesnt work right the recriminations will be thousands of times worse for Obama, Democrats, liberalism and the uninsured than they have been so far.
Being sanguine about these issues wont get them resolved any faster, and wont do anything to prevent the administration from becoming dispirited and letting the window they have to buoy the system close.
No matter what the press has done, nobody whos actually in the market for insurance would have mistaken the rollout for a success, and what ultimately matters is making sure the website becomes a reliable service for consumers. Without enough consumers the law wont work right and if it doesnt work right the recriminations will be thousands of times worse for Obama, Democrats, liberalism and the uninsured than they have been so far.
In the continuing saga of 'worst speaker in recent memory':
The one thing that everybody agreed to after the election - republicans, democrats, the media, the electorate - was that immigration reform was something that had to be done, not only for the benefit of those hurt by current policies, but for the national political viability of the republican party going forward.
If Republicans can't even do this one thing, then I no longer want to hear any talk about how Obama got too involved in the process, or didn't get involved enough, or whatever. It is crystal that the GOP want to deny the administration any kind of legisative victory. It doesn't matter if Obama is involved or not.
Complaining about a 1300 page bill? LMAO. It's not as if Boehner's congress is doing anything. Brew a pot of coffee, put your spectacles on and get to work.
The one thing that everybody agreed to after the election - republicans, democrats, the media, the electorate - was that immigration reform was something that had to be done, not only for the benefit of those hurt by current policies, but for the national political viability of the republican party going forward.
If Republicans can't even do this one thing, then I no longer want to hear any talk about how Obama got too involved in the process, or didn't get involved enough, or whatever. It is crystal that the GOP want to deny the administration any kind of legisative victory. It doesn't matter if Obama is involved or not.
Complaining about a 1300 page bill? LMAO. It's not as if Boehner's congress is doing anything. Brew a pot of coffee, put your spectacles on and get to work.
WayneMorse
Banned
Hahahaha holy shit literally every single top story on Politico right now is about the website.
Damn Obama you really fucked up, I always knew he would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Damn Obama you really fucked up, I always knew he would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
The Librarian
Banned
NYCmetsfan
Banned
In this case their covering their own ass. They don't want to have ads run with obama saying "you can keep your plan" and their face with a narration saying they lied to the American people. The website problems or enrollment numbers aren't going to effect 2014 (if anything they'll help dems as people will see the law as a good thing) but will can hurt is the distrust breed from a statement that now seems to be a bold faced lie. Its a lot more nuanced than that but THAT not the law or the website failures that has gotten dems scared and why they're proposing fixes.
Landrieus mandate is pretty smart politically. As it forces the GOP to defend letting insurers cancel plans. That and I think there are a lot of people wrong about this somehow dooming the law. People can still sign up for plans on the website. I doubt that many will really stay on their plan, or enough that will really effect the law. The biggest losers will be the insurance companies who love using their opportunity for pushing their own more expensive plans.
Its this a serious post? Its politico. It sucks and is devoid of meaning.
Their cover story the other day was Warren running for president. It said nothing but repeated a baseless report in the New Republic.
WayneMorse
Banned
That second line wasn't supposed to be serious.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Oh ok. lol I hate politico, its TMZ of washington. the other two hill papers aren't bad. Roll Call and The Hill. Roll Call is the most 'Serious' IMO
The best part of all of them is the daily report on government people going into lobbying. Hahahaha......
I don't think the administration needs any further reminders as to the urgency of fixing the website and any holes in the law. They know what is at stake. Democrats piling on and demanding changes - including bad policy changes like I outlined previously - add no value other than lending credence to Republican arguments.
Look, at the end of the day, I take the long-term view of this. For more than fifty years, providing near of full universal health care has been nothing but pipe dream. Now we are right near the end zone. Yes, the website was a fuck up, and there has been endless hand wringing about it. But what we don't need is everyone on the offensive line to start attacking the quarterback. Because that is what is happening right now between the democrats and Obama.
The Librarian
Banned
The administration needs Democratic pressure as much as anything else. First of all, because it doesn't hurt, second of all because it absolutely makes sure that it kicks them into gear. Plus, how do you think it would look if Democrats ignored the websites issues and acted like everything was fine? That wouldn't play well at all. Landrieu is covering her ass, and Merkly and Feinstein are putting Obama on notice that he needs to come out with a solution to address the current problem if the website doesn't get fixed in time.
Avon Barksdale
Member
So much for that re-branding.
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/13/208446/questions-about-60-minutes-benghazi.html
Oh so apparently 60 Minutes/Lara Logan made the whole Benghazi story up.
The librul media at work guys.
I can't believe we live in such a political climate where you have to give up journalistic integrity to appear nonpartisan. Our society is broken.
Oh so apparently 60 Minutes/Lara Logan made the whole Benghazi story up.
The librul media at work guys.
I can't believe we live in such a political climate where you have to give up journalistic integrity to appear nonpartisan. Our society is broken.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Yea, that was so bad by CBS. Especially since they could have easily got a hold of the source's FBI testimony.
Fucking seriously. What the hell is wrong with you people? The right-wing has no problems with shit like this because they have shit like this:
Learn it, accept it, EMBRACE IT.
Fucking liberals, I swear...
People in this thread? Why don't you take a look at Democrats in Washington:
This is a mess.
Upton's bill actually does nothing since insurance companies can't hit the "undo" button on plans, Democrats have something somewhat respectable I suppose but the GOP will never go along with it... we're going to have another manufactured crisis, this time over healthcare.gov.
I really hope Obama just does something on the administrative side in hopes of healthcare.gov getting fixed by the end of the month/Dec. 15. If it is still fucked beyond that, this is going to have serious implications for the Democratic party moving forward.
People need to stop worrying about Obama, what this means for him, etc. He has another 3 years. What's at stake here is health care/ACA, Democrats and the implications for 2014 and 2016. This could be like 2006 and 2008 but in reverse depending on how badly the Democrats fight over this and what the White House can manage (or not manage) to do before the website is fixed. I doubt it will get to Dubya levels of outright rage against the Democratic party, but it could be bad. Especially if Obama's overall job approval continues to tank.
This is a crappy time to be a Democrat. The party seems to be scared, frustrated and angry over this.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/obamacare-democrats-decision-99828_Page2.html
This is a mess.
Upton's bill actually does nothing since insurance companies can't hit the "undo" button on plans, Democrats have something somewhat respectable I suppose but the GOP will never go along with it... we're going to have another manufactured crisis, this time over healthcare.gov.
I really hope Obama just does something on the administrative side in hopes of healthcare.gov getting fixed by the end of the month/Dec. 15. If it is still fucked beyond that, this is going to have serious implications for the Democratic party moving forward.
People need to stop worrying about Obama, what this means for him, etc. He has another 3 years. What's at stake here is health care/ACA, Democrats and the implications for 2014 and 2016. This could be like 2006 and 2008 but in reverse depending on how badly the Democrats fight over this and what the White House can manage (or not manage) to do before the website is fixed. I doubt it will get to Dubya levels of outright rage against the Democratic party, but it could be bad. Especially if Obama's overall job approval continues to tank.
This is a crappy time to be a Democrat. The party seems to be scared, frustrated and angry over this.
RustyNails
Member
I honestly don't think website troubles are going to last beyond November. 2 months of 24/7 work on getting it up and running is a lot more than I would expect. My take is that a couple of months from now only but the diehard tea people will still be clinging to the website like how they did with Benghazi or Solyndra or whatever. But the DINOs like Landriu, Manchin and others are a bigger problem and their concerns can drag this out further especially if they want to come up with a bill. Hopefully super Reid will stop this nonsense on the floor.
^That cancellation crap also has got to stop. From all of what I've read so far, the original insurance is being dropped because it was shit. That is what the administration should focus on instead of taking heat for Obama's comments. But again, for that to happen we need more enrollees and tbh, 100k is better than other numbers I was hearing.
^That cancellation crap also has got to stop. From all of what I've read so far, the original insurance is being dropped because it was shit. That is what the administration should focus on instead of taking heat for Obama's comments. But again, for that to happen we need more enrollees and tbh, 100k is better than other numbers I was hearing.
Kshama Sawant Surges to 402 Vote Lead!
Socialism gonna force ya'll to pledge allegiance to Howard Zinn and Saul Alinsky!
Socialism gonna force ya'll to pledge allegiance to Howard Zinn and Saul Alinsky!
I expect people in this thread to be just a tad smarter than Mary fucking Landrieu.
Here's the thing. The nice thing about both our so-called librul media AND the American people is that they both have the attention span of a fruit fly. Some other new shiny "scandal" will pop up soon or some random Republican will say something idiotic and the Obamacare glitches will be but a memory.
That's a good way of putting it. Might have to steal that...
WayneMorse
Banned
lel libruls just got pwnd
"No, not a single survey exists whatsoever. The vast majority of people will get a substantial drop in premiums, and the negligible amount of people who MAY see theirs go up will probably die soon anyway, so it's okay."
See, people? Was that so hard?
PhoenixDark
Banned
The Upton bill would allow insurance companies to continue selling junk policies. That's unacceptable. I like the senate bill more, which would simply allow people with junk policies to keep them, but not allow new junk policies to be sold - something that should have been in the law from day one.
It's surprising the WH hasn't put this fire out. They better do something before House democrats jump ship.
speculawyer
Member
No, don't live in a bubble. Just take a broader view. Sure the web site is a mess. But that will get fixed and the problems will be forgotten. All massive new programs have problems. This one may have more than most. But in either case they will end.
The only issue is whether it will work in the big picture. It will take months if not years to figure out if it works.
The problem is, no one here has the ability to introduce bills (or not). No one can get on the phone with her staffers and get her to think rationally.
Here's the other thing. Unlike other topics, this is kind of personal for a lot of Democrats I fear. For the past three years you can be assured any Democrat feeling unease about this law for whatever reason was told time and time again to stick with it through thick and thin, because once it is rolled out it'll be smooth sailing. So they waited. Through a Government shutdown with default looming over this very law and the opposition wanting it eradicated, even. They stuck it out. They stood in lockstep. Now the website isn't working and policies are being cancelled even though people can't get a full grasp on what else is available thanks to a botched rollout. It is making for nightmarish PR that will be sure to stick around. Any issue with cancelled policies is now magnified, had the website worked normally it would have never got to this point despite how trivial it might actually be. Dems are looking at the politics of the situation and the angst and frustration felt by some people in their district who cannot figure out what happens to them next. Based on what I'm reading Obama has to do something -- not just say, do -- something by Friday or the shit will hit the fan in the party, and that's just going to be a disaster.
RustyNails
Member
Lara Logan utterly shameless. Wow I have zero faith in her credibility now. Wouldn't be surprised if all her previous reporting had exaggeration or false bits. What a way to crash and burn your fucking career and take dignity along with it.
PhoenixDark
Banned
You don't get it. This isn't jumping on or "piling on" the law. It's addressing a problem that needs to be fixed. Millions of people are losing their health coverage, and they cannot sign up on the website because it's fubar. We're discussing ways to fix that while some on the left act like nothing is wrong.
And yes, people should be able to keep whatever shitty plan they signed up for. Many people cannot afford the "better" coverage on the exchange. They make too much money for Medicaid, nor are they eligible for subsidies. This is not some academic issue or any place for elitist views on what people should be forced to do. If you like your insurance plan, you should be able to keep your insurance plan. Those shitty plans should be grandfathered.
Maybe one day the ACA will work for people in this donut hole. Until then they should not be punished with significantly higher premiums and deductibles.
The Democrats are talking about voting for the Upton bill which would gut the law, so yeah, it will hurt. I don't know how letting people keep under-insurance policies helps them financially, or supports the long-term viability of the health care law. We're talking about re-instating bad policy just to save some political face.
I agree that would be bad.
But that is not what is happening. You've had the president and democrats go on the stump and assure that the website will be ready by the december deadline. You've had the president apologise to the people who have had their plans cancelled. Now we have to let the process of fixing the website play out. I don't know what continued hand-wringing achieves, other than playing into the hands of the Republicans.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
She's really pro-war and military propaganda. She's even married to a guy whose job that is.
And she's been trying to push the benghazi story since forever.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/washin...gan-brings-ominous-news-from-middle-east.html
How she's not been fired is unbelievable.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The problem I think people are having is the freaking out is being driven by horse race type articles. OMG one poll went down! Its the end! Scandals and broken promises have happened before. The media tends to over hype their effect.
WayneMorse
Banned
Seriously all we need is:
1. Website fixed by the end of the month.
2. Another manufactured fiscal crisis that makes the GOP look like a bunch of babies again.
3. The Tea Party comes out full force in the primaries and nominates a bunch of unelectable dolts.
I mean, looking back, Obama reached his lowest point in terms of popularity in the fall of 2011, and he still managed to get decisively re-elected.
1. Website fixed by the end of the month.
2. Another manufactured fiscal crisis that makes the GOP look like a bunch of babies again.
3. The Tea Party comes out full force in the primaries and nominates a bunch of unelectable dolts.
I mean, looking back, Obama reached his lowest point in terms of popularity in the fall of 2011, and he still managed to get decisively re-elected.
RustyNails
Member
Um wow. Crazy woman.
They fire Dan Rather over documents that were not proven fraudulent, about Bush's record at Air Force. But in their haste to not appear ANTI AMERICAN COMMIES they kick off one of the best journalists. But here? No bueno.
And do you really think the GOP will budge and adopt the Senate's position? Please. This whole fiasco is like a gift to them. I'd be super happy if I were a Republican right now.
Just wait until Feb/March, if nothing is passed by then it will all come down to the Upton bill or full repeal.
It is also worth noting that, despite somewhat cryptic, Bill Clinton called Obama out on breaking his campaign promise. Pretty unprecedented and speaks to the magnitude of this problem.
WayneMorse
Banned
Is there any executive action Obama could take that would stop people from losing their plans?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Upton said today that he likes the Landrieu bill more than his own. Which seems to me like him basically saying "the senate bill can pass, mine can't."
For realsies? That's good news.
What will Boehner do, though? Add a bunch of crap, the Senate rejects it, bill goes nowhere...
WayneMorse
Banned
I still think it's weird you had Merkley sign onto the Landrieu bill though. I thought Oregon was safe-blue?
WayneMorse
Banned
Also I think with immigration reform, ENDA and $10 minimum wage the Dems can galvanize a lot of support from groups that would otherwise stay at home in a midterm.
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