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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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T

The Librarian

Banned
#humblebrag #badassharryreid
When Rehm asked if the filibuster change would make "bipartisanship" and "comity" in the Senate even more difficult, the Democratic leader laughed out loud.

"I'm sorry to -- smile -- as you can't see on radio," he said. "More disfunction? I mean, gee whiz. When you have constitutionally necessary posts like judges who they refuse to put in office?"

He invoked the GOP's mass filibuster of three nominees to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, which was the final straw before Democrats triggered the "nuclear option," to argue that "it is just awful what they've done."

"So I had no choice," he said.

The final vote was 52-48. Reid mentioned that three Democrats voted not to change the rules -- Sens. Carl Levin (MI), Joe Manchin (WV) and Mark Pryor (AR). "But frankly, if I needed a couple of those, I could've gotten those too," he said.
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W

WayneMorse

Banned
Obamacare's Threat to Liberalism

There’s a term of art that the Obama White House uses to describe its neurotic supporters who instantly race to the worst-case scenario: They are known as “bed-wetters.” Two months into the dysfunctional life of healthcare.gov, however, that seems a perfectly appropriate physiological reaction.

Liberalism has spent the better part of the past century attempting to prove that it could competently and responsibly extend the state into new reaches of American life. With the rollout of the Affordable Care Act, the administration has badly injured that cause, confirming the worst slurs against the federal government. It has stifled bad news and fudged promises; it has failed to translate complex mechanisms of policy into plain English; it can’t even launch a damn website. What’s more, nobody responsible for the debacle has lost a job or suffered a demotion. Over time, the Affordable Care Act’s technical difficulties can be repaired. Reversing the initial impressions of government ineptitude won’t be so easy.
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R

RustyNails

Member
Oblivion said:
We also have to assume religion might play a big role. You know that whole "be fruitfly and multiply" thing.

My cousin who got in arranged marriage recently keeps trying to convince me to go for it. I'm not exactly poor thankfully, but there's no way I'd be able to support a wife AND that cursed wench that is mi madre.
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I thought Sippy Cupp was already your waifu?
 
D

Diablos

Member
Dax01 said:
Look at this motherfucker.

Brian-Schweitzer.jpg


It'd be very difficult for the GOP to paint him as some sort of liberal firebrand. He has a lot of appeal across many demographics. Less certain than Hillary, maybe, but he definitely has a very wide appeal.
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Yeah, look at him. He could have secured a now all but completely impossible Dem Senate seat hold in Montana next year.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
however, the onus is also on the person as well. trying to absolve personal responsibility due to just "poverty" is reckless. trying to argue that IQ points is synonymous with intelligence, or just rational thinking, is faulty. is considering how everyone should know kids come from sex...and if a person see that, hey, with just 1 kid, i'm struggling to feed it and cloth it...then maybe with 2 kids, it'll be worse...
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These arguments feel like a new Scarlet Letter.

Can a women have sex if she's poor? Do you have any idea what she's done in her life? How shes ended up here? If you dont, moralizing about it is just speculation and reveals far more about the speculator than the speculatee

Too often, sexist views are used shame women because of their 'choices': Why is she so stupid and selfish to have 5 kids? Why can't she just stop having sex, doesn't she know she's poor? Why can't we force her to have an invasive medical procedure?

There is a place for personal responsibility but too often 'personal responsibility is a way for people to shame and marginalize others to misdirect from the guilt the wider society has in that outcome, this is also used in racial arguments too. That's what I see in your posts a bunch of assumptions that lead you to condem her without questioning anything else.

Where is the father (its curious that 'welfare queens' and the poor women berated for having the audacity to think they have the right procreate also are portrayed as doing this all on there own, never once is it thought maybe they did have a support structure that failed them)?
Where is her family?
Why is she making so little?
Does she have access to birth control?
Is there a cultural element to this?

All of those questions are worth asking but instead the worst moral caricature is drawn automatically.

Liberals do not ignore the place of choices in determing outcomes, they do not seek to excuse all things. But they are not ignorant (or maliciously manipulative) of wider factors. Choices are not made in vacuums. Policy decisions made in a vacuum won't turn out very well either.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Wilsongt said:
Diane Rehm has an interesting show today about the need for knowledge based journalism as oppose to spin baby spin
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Sadly, Diane Rehm frequently has guests from right-wing think tanks on her show who are allowed to disseminate misinformation without adequate rebuttal. I used to listen to her show quite a bit. Somebody who doesn't know any better would often come away from her show less knowledgeable about the world than before.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Fox318 said:
He gets the most money from pro-Isreal groups in the Senate and he is the highest ranking Jewish politician in the congress.

Not a big surprise.
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Can we not say that him being jewish has anything to do with it? Its antisemitic or at best based on antisemitic tropes of disloyalty and dual allegiance. Israel is a country.

Other Jews support this this deal.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Giant Panda said:
Are you saying she shouldn't take any of the responsibility for her bad decisions? It is widely recognized that other people that have messed up childhoods are still responsible for any bad stuff they may do as adults, though we have a greater understanding of why they do what they did. So while I understand why someone raised in poverty might make poor decisions, I believe they still deserve the majority, but not all, of the responsibility for having made those poor decisions.
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You don't think she is? LOL. She is paying he price for her actions because while she might have had a slight chance of getting out of poverty, she now has zero.

What I find repugnant is people BLAMING them for their bad decisions. There is a difference between, yea, you made a bad decision, lets try to educate this community and change the structures contributing to those bad decisions than basically just saying that poor people don't deserve to have kids and its their own damn fault if they do. They should have known better, and because of their stupid decisions, they can go fuck themselves.

As for the rest, I specifically addressed it in that same post. Is it all of society's fault? Of course not. Individuals have to live with the choices that they make. Are the structures of society contributing to poor people making bad decisions. Yes.

It just seems a lot more rational and effective to actually change the structure contributing to these bad decisions than just lament about the stupid poors lack of personal responsibility, because, you know, that might change once you change the structure.

empty vessel said:
Sadly, Diane Rehm frequently has guests from right-wing think tanks on her show who are allowed to disseminate misinformation without adequate rebuttal. I used to listen to her show quite a bit. Somebody who doesn't know any better would often come away from her show less knowledgeable about the world than before.
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The Daily Circuit is where its at
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
A piece of legislation actually has to be "Liberal" before it becomes a threat to liberalism.
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You think a more liberal plan would pass if Obamacare utterly implodes? That will be the end of major changes to healthcare for a long ass time.

I haven't read the article but I'm assuming that's the argument being made; I've seen Ezra Klein and others make it. If this law fails it not only ensures Obama will be seen as a failure, it will do huge damage to the democrat brand on healthcare. I think this is why republicans want to destroy the law. It has little to do with policy, considering the law features many general conservative ideas. It has everything to do with destroying Obama, capitalizing politically, and ending the healthcare debate in this country for at least another decade or two.

Disclaimer: I don't believe the law is failing or will fail.
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Jonathan Chait uses his knowledge of American football to dismantle the GOP's Obamacare strategy.
Instead, the play is a naked bootleg to the left, running straight into the defensive back who isn't guarding anybody. That is to say, imagining they'll face an outnumbered and horribly misaligned defense, the offense proposes to attack the only part of the field where the defense has an unblockable defender. This is literally the only play I can imagine that could not work against this defense.
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T

theprodigy

Member
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Oblivion said:
Wait, what? Link?

edit: oh, I see. No wonder I didn't know. She mentioned my blog but didn't link to it! :mad:
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I guess that means she reads it.
biggest thing from keeping my from starting a blog is the fact I have nowhere to build a audience. Friends could give two craps about politics.
 
K

Karakand

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
it's both problem, the way I see it. it is the fault of the government for not funding the school enough to give every kids, regardless of wealth, a good education, especially when it comes to reproductive health.

however, the onus is also on the person as well. trying to absolve personal responsibility due to just "poverty" is reckless. trying to argue that IQ points is synonymous with intelligence, or just rational thinking, is faulty. is considering how everyone should know kids come from sex...and if a person see that, hey, with just 1 kid, i'm struggling to feed it and cloth it...then maybe with 2 kids, it'll be worse...
Click to expand...

Love the air quotes around poverty.

APKmetsfan said:
Can we not say that him being jewish has anything to do with it? Its antisemitic or at best based on antisemitic tropes of disloyalty and dual allegiance. Israel is a country.

Other Jews support this this deal.
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Clearly the higher up you are in the conspiracy of the Elders of Zion the more you have to keep lockstep with the party line.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Tax incentives and other giveaways to business don't create prosperity. It's time for a federal law to stop the bribery and make better use of capitalism's strengths.


Good article. This issue needs a lot more attention because how we are going about things is just so stupid. And he is totally right. It is simple bribery, and not even effective bribery because all it does is hurt the American people. But I guess employment numbers, jobs created, etc, are more important to some politicians than the actual well-being of the nation.

Two big facts confirm this conclusion. First, as the New York Times reported last December, states, counties and cities are giving up more than $80 billion each year to companies in tax breaks, outright cash payments, and buildings and worker training. Second, the wages of the taxpayers who have been footing the bill for this stuff have been flat since at least 1979. Indeed, some economists, including stalwarts of the establishment like Larry Summers, have concluded that we are now in an economy whose normal state is one of mild depression as a result of inadequate demand. It seems obvious that the lack of demand is the result of depressed wages.
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80 billion dollars worth of bribes a year...

I would stop short of that. Capitalism generates wealth, and without wealth living standards cannot rise. But capitalism does this in markets and, as Alex Marshall pointed out in The Surprising Design of Market Economies, markets are designed and constructed by governments through laws and regulations. In the case of global corporations like Boeing, state and local governments are simply unequal to the task. We need a national law that prohibits corporations from extracting bribes from state and local governments and bans governments from donating tax dollars to private entities -- a sort of domestic equivalent of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which prohibits American companies from bribing foreign governments.
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Yup, Corporations simply have too much leverage dealing with state and local governments because they can always find some idiot to give them a bigger bribe. Too bad I don't see any meaningful reform on this for the foreseeable future, since, well, congress and lobbyists... sigh...

With the predators reined in by a federal law, states and localities could more safely try alternative forms of economic development such as those championed by the Democracy Collaborative. Its model, called Community Wealth Building, emphasizes democratization of wealth, focuses on place and local economy, promotes broader ownership of capital, seeks to anchor jobs locally, stops the leakage of dollars from communities and supports individual and family wealth-building.

It's time for experiments aimed at testing and developing a new paradigm for economic development, one that channels capitalism's strengths while protecting the commons and producing a more broadly shared version of prosperity.
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That would be nice, but I'd say ending 80 billion dollars a year in corporate bribes would be a huge win by itself.
 
F

Fox318

Member
APKmetsfan said:
Can we not say that him being jewish has anything to do with it? Its antisemitic or at best based on antisemitic tropes of disloyalty and dual allegiance. Israel is a country.

Other Jews support this this deal.
Click to expand...

Both of the NY senators are usually heading up the Israeli defense fund grants. Even if he agreed with the pact he would have to have a strong stance for Israel. Statements are as about local politics for him.

I wasn't trying to say that all Jewish people think alike or are in lockstep or something.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Fox318 said:
Both of the NY senators are usually heading up the Israeli defense fund grants. Even if he agreed with the pact he would have to have a strong stance for Israel. Statements are as about local politics for him.

I wasn't trying to say that all Jewish people think alike or are in lockstep or something.
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and he is the highest ranking Jewish politician in the congress
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You claimed his Jewishness made it not a big surprise. Maybe you didn't realize it and I don't think you meant anything malicious just wanted to point out how toxic stereotypes get into politics sometimes.

He's is pro-israel no doubt about that. I just don't think his religion/ethnicity as anything to do with his feelings towards Iran. Jews don't automatically agree with Israeli foreign policy.

Cantor is above him BTW.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Considering how the ACA rollout is going I have doubts whether a shutdown strategy based on repealing or delaying Obamacare would be as much of a disaster as last time.

I fully expect the public to side with the GOP more than they did last time.
 
F

Fox318

Member
APKmetsfan said:
You claimed his Jewishness made it not a big surprise.

He's is pro-israel no doubt about that. I just don't think his religion/ethnicity as anything to do with it.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't you say that a persons religion can also be a fair representation of their beliefs? With the exception of abortion I'd say that Israeli defense and foreign policy is tied with peoples religious beliefs.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Fox318 said:
But wouldn't you say that a persons religion can also be a fair representation of their beliefs? With the exception of abortion I'd say that Israeli defense and foreign policy is tied with people religious beliefs.
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No

The assumption that Jews automatically back Israel's foreign policy (or even their domestic policy) is an antisemitic trope. Its been around for years, Jews have always had their loyalty questioned (They're communists, Israel-firsters, neocons, capitalists, etc). Its messed up.
 
D

Diablos

Member
WayneMorse said:
Considering how the ACA rollout is going I have doubts whether a shutdown strategy based on repealing or delaying Obamacare would be as much of a disaster as last time.

I fully expect the public to side with the GOP more than they did last time.
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B-b-b-but McConnell said there would be no shutdown next time, right?

WayneMorse said:
I still don't think Corbett is going to lose as long as the ACA rollout is going so badly.
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Are you kidding me?

Do you live here?

Corbett doesn't stand a chance. He's done.

I look forward to watching Governor Schwartz take the oath in January 2015.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
In another sign that America's system of separated powers is outdated...
When asked about the gridlock and polarization in Washington, he refused to say he could bring the two parties together. Instead, he made the case for unified government. "For years, the conventional wisdom was that Americans want divided government," he said. "I think they've seen in the last few years that that's not necessarily a good thing. Instead of checks and balances you get a lot of gridlock."
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B

Black Mamba

Member
WayneMorse said:
Considering how the ACA rollout is going I have doubts whether a shutdown strategy based on repealing or delaying Obamacare would be as much of a disaster as last time.

I fully expect the public to side with the GOP more than they did last time.
Click to expand...

lolno. By the time that comes around, it would mean taking millions of people off of health insurance.

Good luck with that strategy.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Dax01 said:
In another sign that America's system of separated powers is outdated...
Click to expand...

I think it can work. Our problem is that we are not incentivizing cooperation because our representatives only need to appeal to their primary base (shudder) and/or their party and independents. What that has left us is with a bunch of dig backs (vast majority of these are republicans) who simply obstruct obstruct obstruct because its in their personal benefit to do so.

I honestly don't see any huge reforms on the horizon - like moving to Britain's system, or something like that. I really think that ranked voting and multi-member districts (house of representatives - instead of a bunch of little ones you'd have a few huge ones with multiple candidates competing over multiple seats) would definitely help because it would be many of those people's best interest to appeal to as many people as possible and appear that they are actually doing good.

Basically, it will remove the fringe, which for some idiotic reason dominates our electoral system (mostly the republican side for some odd reason), and its a set of reforms, i think, that are somewhat plausible. It doesnt vastly transform it, just tweaks it to make a it significantly better
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Piecake said:
I think it can work.
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Ours is showing an inability to work just like every other presidential system in history. Maybe changing from a system other than an FPTP will work, but in its current state? This is just another symptom rearing its head.

Oh, and Vermont's single-payer system is coming in 400 million more expensive than the Shumlin administration's projection.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Dax01 said:
Ours is showing an inability to work just like every other presidential system in history. Maybe changing from a system other than an FPTP will work, but in its current state? This is just another symptom rearing its head.

Oh, and Vermont's single-payer system is coming in 400 million more expensive than the Shumlin administration's projection.
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Well, I think what saves our system is federalism. Government can still function even when the federal government can barely keep itself running. And what other options are there? Dramatically changing the system is completely unrealistic unless a civil war happens or something. Whats left? Reforms to eliminate fringe voters and give candidates an incentive to appeal to a broad range of people. Ranked Voting definitely helps with that.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Piecake said:
And what other options are there? Dramatically changing the system is completely unrealistic unless a civil war happens or something. Whats left? Reforms to eliminate fringe voters and give candidates an incentive to appeal to a broad range of people. Ranked Voting definitely helps with that.
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Just because the odds of something changing are low (though my shot-in-the-dark prediction says we'll see a new constitution by century's end) doesn't mean I can talk about better alternatives.
 
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