(Really) bad news for Kay Hagan?
Doc Holliday: I just can't believe the GOP was content with pissing away $24b over nothing but extending UE benefits to people for $25b is out of the question. It is just crushing.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout
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Doc Holliday: I just can't believe the GOP was content with pissing away $24b over nothing but extending UE benefits to people for $25b is out of the question. It is just crushing.
speculawyer
Member
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
how are they cowards exactly? Do you believe that they haven't pushed for it at all?
Do you also believe that the democrats can get EVERYTHING they want to pass through the House? The house that shut us down and almost took us to default?
The modus operandi of the republican party now is that if you want something, you'll have to give up something else.
unfortunately, this is not gonna change until they lose the HOuse. Accept that fact
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like even if there's a surplus there's going to be people calculating how many years of that surplus until the debt is paid off. As long as the government is a household analogy still holds, people are going to think the goal is 0 debt.
Actually, I think Huffpost, and a number of news outlets actually, have the federal employee pension thing wrong. They're saying it's for all federal employees, but the actual line in the house summary of the deal says:
So this wouldn't affect me (assuming the House summary is correct), but it's still utterly stupid. In a workforce that's aging and particularly a federal workforce that's starting to retire rapidly, the last thing the Democrats need to be doing is lowering the attractiveness of being a Federal Employee even further when it's obvious Republicans do this only to make the workforce smaller, less capable, and less efficient in order to continue their "government can't do anything right" mantra.
He's a black man shaking a hispanic man's hand, it's obvious they just finished signing an accord to rid the planet of old white men.
Oh yeah
I won't constantly go out on a limb defending hc.gov rollout and other related problems with the law as Obama had three years to make this shit go as smoothly as possible, and clearly he and his team fucked up just a bit there. But Americans really need some perspective and perhaps some medication to protect from the damages of short-term memory loss (or what it really is: sheer ignorance, but there's no medicine for that I'm afraid).
AMERICA
You didn't get the memo? Apparently a website not working as designed despite having a grace period of, oh, SIX FUCKING MONTHS is more important than 50 people in the Government who held not only the US economy hostage, but the global one as well, nearly triggering an International crisis and causing another recession!
I won't constantly go out on a limb defending hc.gov rollout and other related problems with the law as Obama had three years to make this shit go as smoothly as possible, and clearly he and his team fucked up just a bit there. But Americans really need some perspective and perhaps some medication to protect from the damages of short-term memory loss (or what it really is: sheer ignorance, but there's no medicine for that I'm afraid).
AMERICA
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
Would need a video though.
She's fineeee:
think she's wearing either a thigh high or regular stockings underneath thtat?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Clinton got rid of the deficit. Bush used that to give everybody tax cuts since we have to much, we needed to return it" to the people.
Dems should argue we need to invest it.
User 250141
Banned
At this point, I'm convinced that the only thing that can save this country is martial law.
wat
(I don't really think it would be proper to force medication upon the people, I was just trying to state in the calmest way possible that our society is utterly hopeless in prioritizing the importance of things that actually impact their day to day lives)
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
*is unironically a fascist*
Wait, so what do Democrats get in that deal again?
If there's a surplus than that means the government has too much money, which means it can afford to provide new tax cuts!
edit: goddamn it, APK.
If there's a surplus than that means the government has too much money, which means it can afford to provide new tax cuts!
edit: goddamn it, APK.
A middle finger to their face and a dagger up their ass, as usual.
<GOP> *Nobody gets anything but we still pull the strings and let even more people slip into extreme poverty teehee*
they get to be the ~*post-partisan*~ reasonable adults in the room which is totally worth throwing a million peasants under bus
Thanks.
speculawyer
Member
Damn . . . old political cartoons can be so funny.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Cause poor people are all criminals?
No, because when people get desperate and have no other means of income crazy things can happen.
Certainly not everyone who is poor is also a criminal.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Can someone explain all the complaing about this deal from the left?
The complaints I hear are mostly no UI or not all of the sequestor was cut. They all remind me of the tea partys feelings going into the shut down. Not understanding who held the leverage and getting the least worst result. Someone map out how the dems get a better deal?
Sequestration was never going to be eliminated Republicans like the cuts to social programs. They don't like UI why then would they give them up for nothing in return? They're not budging from their taxes stance ,let's forget about pushing it when dems don't hold the leverage.
If nothing would have passed we'd have had another continuing resolution at even worse levels. Now the economy has a bit less of a headwind next year. That's better than what there was before.
The increased fees I don't mind but I can understand frustration at the pay cut to federal workers its obscene but it's the scalp the GOP demanded. The Dems did get increased spending they never would have gotten otherwise and no entitlement cuts are gonna be on the table through 2016 (this is awesome news! And a win for progressives).
I just don't see how we could have gotten anything better without gambling on the GOP doing something insane in January. Its too much of a risk. Also the GOPers who voted for this might be attacked for being 'liberal' so there is a risk there.
The original sin was 2011.
The complaints I hear are mostly no UI or not all of the sequestor was cut. They all remind me of the tea partys feelings going into the shut down. Not understanding who held the leverage and getting the least worst result. Someone map out how the dems get a better deal?
Sequestration was never going to be eliminated Republicans like the cuts to social programs. They don't like UI why then would they give them up for nothing in return? They're not budging from their taxes stance ,let's forget about pushing it when dems don't hold the leverage.
If nothing would have passed we'd have had another continuing resolution at even worse levels. Now the economy has a bit less of a headwind next year. That's better than what there was before.
The increased fees I don't mind but I can understand frustration at the pay cut to federal workers its obscene but it's the scalp the GOP demanded. The Dems did get increased spending they never would have gotten otherwise and no entitlement cuts are gonna be on the table through 2016 (this is awesome news! And a win for progressives).
I just don't see how we could have gotten anything better without gambling on the GOP doing something insane in January. Its too much of a risk. Also the GOPers who voted for this might be attacked for being 'liberal' so there is a risk there.
The original sin was 2011.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
It doesn't happen overnight and most of the people aren't going to become destitute. It's cruel wrong and bad policy but your overstating its effects on any trend level.
It will damage irreparably some lives (and morally wrong) that is true but its not going to turn our cities into the warriors
Giant Panda
Member
Raul Castro has been slowly opening Cuba up, probably as fast as is practically possible while Fidel and his apparatus still exists. I don't see how anyone who has been paying attention could fault Obama for shaking his hand.
empty vessel
Member
They get a slightly modified (but not lessened) austerity package. This is what happens when you foolishly adopt the other side's irrational debt and deficit hysteria.
What a shit deal that is. Can we just have reed retain his balls for one whole year?
I have objections about the bill, but my biggest is that this sets budget levels for the next two years, not just this fiscal year. Both years with discretionary spending capped at the entirely arbitrary level of about $1b. Budgets should be annual so that they can be adjusted to the situation at the time they are drafted. What this does is make it so that no matter what shape the economy is in next year, we won't be talking about improving it through the normal budget process.
Dems are basically handing over a very large proportion of their negotiating leverage for the next two years. Now the GOP can block everything and not have to deal with the kind of backlash they faced when they shut the government down. And they got the budgets set at levels of their choosing. And by virtue of being bipartisan-y and covering so long a span, it removes if from public discourse and from the minds of voters. It's total victory on the discretionary spending front for the GOP.
Dems are basically handing over a very large proportion of their negotiating leverage for the next two years. Now the GOP can block everything and not have to deal with the kind of backlash they faced when they shut the government down. And they got the budgets set at levels of their choosing. And by virtue of being bipartisan-y and covering so long a span, it removes if from public discourse and from the minds of voters. It's total victory on the discretionary spending front for the GOP.
Jumpin' Jesus on a stick. Can someone please hit our fucking mainstream media people with a sack of dead beavers please? I'm coming back to work from lunch and the T.V. in the lobby has our local news channel talking about handshake-gate. This wasn't Fox News, it was what was SUPPOSED to be a legitimate news outlet, and they were talking about how Obama's presidency may be lost cause of this.
I weep for the future of our country.
What the fuck's the point then?
I weep for the future of our country.
What the fuck's the point then?
User 250141
Banned
What's going to come of this country?
Not much, I fear.
Black Mamba
Member
So basically, they reduced next year's sequestration by about half (split evenly among military and discretionary) and 2015 by 25% and are compensating for that by increasing flight fees and new employee pension fund contributions.
Or in other words, the middle class mostly sees a tax hike all to reduce next year's sequestration by 1/2 and 2015's by 1/4.
What the flying fuck kind of deal is this?
Why not just hold the line by demanding full repeal of sequestration to discretionary for half the military sequestration? Let the GOP shut down the gov't to increase military spending. That would be a losing argument.
And now UEC expires as well?
This deal is terrible. Fucking hell.
edit: And remember, I'm the guy who understands you end up compromising. But I just don't see how this is a good compromised deal. There's barely 2 years of sequester reduction which hurts the economy and no UE extension and hikes to regular folks bills. This is a fucking turd.
From what I gather, I absolutely abhor this deal.
Or in other words, the middle class mostly sees a tax hike all to reduce next year's sequestration by 1/2 and 2015's by 1/4.
What the flying fuck kind of deal is this?
Why not just hold the line by demanding full repeal of sequestration to discretionary for half the military sequestration? Let the GOP shut down the gov't to increase military spending. That would be a losing argument.
And now UEC expires as well?
This deal is terrible. Fucking hell.
edit: And remember, I'm the guy who understands you end up compromising. But I just don't see how this is a good compromised deal. There's barely 2 years of sequester reduction which hurts the economy and no UE extension and hikes to regular folks bills. This is a fucking turd.
From what I gather, I absolutely abhor this deal.
You gotta be shitting me...
Dominican Power
Member
I can't believe they made a big deal out of Obama shaking hands with Raul Castro. America is so hypocritically delusional.
Well, everything but the budget. But they got what they want on that front. They'll still have to deal with things issue to issue but they will no longer be seen holding up the regular function of government so publicly.
People are nuts, they have a friendly gesture at the funeral of a man who championed peace and equality. Shocking news!
Black Mamba
Member
Worse yet, this will drive the "paul ryan is serious" narrative.
Fucking hell. Where is Pigeon? Gimme a silver lining here.
Republicans can't threaten to (or actually) shut down government for the next 2 years?
empty vessel
Member
Actually, the budget deal appears to increase austerity even above sequestration levels: "If it passes Congress, the deal would fund the government through the fall of 2015, cancel about $65 billion in sequestration cuts over the next two years, and save $85 billion elsewhere in the budget through a combination of cuts and fees." If that's accurate, Democrats bargained for an extra $20 billion of austerity on top of sequestration levels.
A quote from Klein: "Democrats flatly got beat on sequestration. Republicans are keeping -- and increasing -- the deficit reduction without ever giving up a dime in taxes. And many Republicans don't want to alter sequestration at all. Ryan entered the negotiations with a much stronger hand than Murray."
This is why you don't do stupid things like agree to enact steep spending cuts into law. Democrats got played. I think the country is going to lose decades of progress due to the actions of our current governing class. It's a travesty, really.
A quote from Klein: "Democrats flatly got beat on sequestration. Republicans are keeping -- and increasing -- the deficit reduction without ever giving up a dime in taxes. And many Republicans don't want to alter sequestration at all. Ryan entered the negotiations with a much stronger hand than Murray."
This is why you don't do stupid things like agree to enact steep spending cuts into law. Democrats got played. I think the country is going to lose decades of progress due to the actions of our current governing class. It's a travesty, really.
Black Mamba
Member
Yeah, I'm pretty much in 100% agreement with you on this one.
Regular folk get to pay $5 more to fly. Thanks, Patty Murray.
Avon Barksdale
Member
No reason to ever vote for a Republican anymore.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The deal is horrible and highlights the general problem I've had with democrats/the administration: the inability to bullshit alongside republicans on the budget. You would think that democrats would have some decent alternative to tax increases and loophole eliminations by now; they can't find harmless spending cuts to avoid nonsense like this? And before Empty Vessel jumps on me, yes I agree that the deficit isn't an issue. But democrats have been playing this game on republican turf for years, my argument is that if you're going to play you might as well be good at it.
These fees are essentially a regressive tax on regular people. Then there's the idiotic pension stuff. How does a democrat agree to that without asking Paul Ryan "wait a minute, why is the middle class bearing the brunt of this?"
In short, democrats need their own Paul Ryan: someone who can bullshit. Murray seems like a nice lady but she got her lunch money stolen here. And of course this can't be handled by the White House because the president still can't negotiate for shit, five years later.
These fees are essentially a regressive tax on regular people. Then there's the idiotic pension stuff. How does a democrat agree to that without asking Paul Ryan "wait a minute, why is the middle class bearing the brunt of this?"
In short, democrats need their own Paul Ryan: someone who can bullshit. Murray seems like a nice lady but she got her lunch money stolen here. And of course this can't be handled by the White House because the president still can't negotiate for shit, five years later.
Damn . . . old political cartoons can be so funny.
Tangentially related http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/512/house-rules
I listened to this a couple of days ago and found out that George Romney was seriously a BOSS at times. Too bad Mitt didn't follow far in his footsteps.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Its not. Your not going to win on that the public wants cuts, remember these cuts are already law for the next ten years. Dems don't have cover. The GOP can just pass CRs the more the dems press for expansion against a GOP that is happy with the status quo the more the dems lose in the public eye. the only wild card to this is the tea party and if they could sabotage the party.
Thats a real possibility but not something I'm willing to bet on. Best to start tackling individual popular issues (minimum wage, infrastructure spending, etc)
The only alternative to this is the GOP starts demanding real scalps. The is the least worst outcome. None of the stuff you guys are proposing will come out of the house. Its not going to happen. Even the shut down where the Dems won everything was just a plain CR at sequester levels. We can't get away from those figures without the houses consent.
Yeah, that sounds pretty fucking horrible. And as PD said, whatever revenue sources are coming from this are regressive as fuck. No one at any point thought that they could spin this as a Republican supported tax hike on the middle class? How incompetent are these people?
To be fair, I don't think many people knew how crazy the Republicans would go on the sequester. The Pentagon was like the only part of government they supported, so one would think Republicans would eventually cave on this. Of course, this was before they realized that cutting the Pentagon cuts jobs too, and hopefully raise the unemployment rate which they could then blame on Obama.
empty vessel
Member
What I have proposed is the political decimation of the Republican party. Of course, that takes work, and not work in DC either. (That's not intended as a shot at you, just the reality of the situation.)
I don't know. I feel like I have known that Republicans were crazy since before 2000. And I'm just some guy in Texas. You'd think those who have to deal with them in person every day should have had it figured out by the time the sequester was proposed as a good idea.
Black Mamba
Member
There will be no movement on the minimum wage and infrastructure.
This isn't the least worst outcome. This isn't the worst outcome but it's definitely among the bad of the bad outcomes.
You could easily frame the debate negatively for the GOP. People want military cuts. Put it on the GOP to own up to shutting down the gov't to keep the military spending up! Throw in UEC with it, then.
At the very least, how the fuck is the increased revenue made up by exclusively screwing over the middle class? How is this "least bad." Where the fuck this flight fees come from? Why do we need more of those? How about flight fees only for 1st class, then.
I understand there was zero chance of removing all the sequester, that part isn't what I'm specifically upset about. What I'm upset about is where the revenue is coming. Dems could have held the line for closing loopholes for the rich and they'd have won that fight.
"We are proposing to close a few loopholes for millionaires. They are proposing to increase fees on every American when they fly."
Who do you think wins?
Dems just traded middle class tax hikes for minor sequestration relief. WHAT THE FUCK!?
This isn't the least worst outcome. This isn't the worst outcome but it's definitely among the bad of the bad outcomes.
You could easily frame the debate negatively for the GOP. People want military cuts. Put it on the GOP to own up to shutting down the gov't to keep the military spending up! Throw in UEC with it, then.
At the very least, how the fuck is the increased revenue made up by exclusively screwing over the middle class? How is this "least bad." Where the fuck this flight fees come from? Why do we need more of those? How about flight fees only for 1st class, then.
I understand there was zero chance of removing all the sequester, that part isn't what I'm specifically upset about. What I'm upset about is where the revenue is coming. Dems could have held the line for closing loopholes for the rich and they'd have won that fight.
"We are proposing to close a few loopholes for millionaires. They are proposing to increase fees on every American when they fly."
Who do you think wins?
Dems just traded middle class tax hikes for minor sequestration relief. WHAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah, pretty much.
We got bigger cuts AND newer, shittier revenue streams. If we had the former without the latter, it wouldn't be that bad, but I see no fucking reason why the latter was added to begin with!
NYCmetsfan
Banned
To the bolded, the GOP. They lose the polling on that question but they've been losing the polling on how to reduce the deficit FOR YEARS.
They don't care. I don't know what part of that you don't understand. They want the sequester or enough do that it doesn't matter McCain wants to build more jets. Dems holding the line on tax breaks? Then we get the full sequester. Ryan can't bring his caucus a long.
Frame it any way you want the best that would have come out of that would have been another clean CR which as lower spending levels. We saw the GOP lose badly on the shutdown and they still won on the policy (austerity).
These 'middle class tax hikes' are going to have the economic effect of the sequester. I don't expect anything to move on those other issues. What I do expect it to do pivot the public away from budget discussions or debt and deficit talk and towards substantive policy which is where the dems win elections.
We didn't get bigger cuts. We got more spending and more taxes. A larger increase of taxes than spending but still. The government is going to spend more and spur more demand. I can't help but think the increased spending out weighs the cost of those fees (isn't it the 9/11 fee? people should be reminded all the security state is costing them money) and pension contributions.
Black Mamba
Member
Let the GOP threaten to shut down the gov't to protect loopholes, then. Reid could also pass a CR at previous spending levels.
Or, you know, they could have done the same sequester shit without any of the revenue hikes.
The Dems needed to dig in their heels and fight this one. It's how they won the last few fights.
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