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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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A

Averon

Member
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ers-accountable-for-opposing-defunding-effort

Cruz Wants Conservatives To Hold GOPers 'Accountable' For Opposing Defunding Effort

In remarks likely to deepen his rift with members of his own party, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) said he wants conservatives to hold Senate Republicans "accountable" for opposing the ill-fated effort to defund the Affordable Care Act.

Echoing his sentiments from earlier this week, Cruz told National Review's Robert Costa in an interview published Saturday that the defunding campaign was derailed by a "significant number" of his GOP colleagues who "actively, aggressively, and vocally led the effort to defeat House Republicans."

“Once Senate Republicans did that, it crippled the chances of this effort, and it caused the lousy deal.” he told Costa.
Click to expand...


Why is Cruz hellbent on making every GOP senator (sans Mike Lee) his enemy? What is his goal in inciting a GOP civil war?
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Hitokage said:
That's fine, but your remark how it's not in the constitution sounds a lot like anti-tax people who claim the income tax is not in the constitution. I just wonder what the Supreme Court is supposed to do otherwise when the constitution makes it clear on certain matters what Congress cannot do and which laws trump others.

It could certainly be handled differently, but the constitution makes no provisions for that.
Click to expand...
It's definitely an oversight of the constitution.
And per the constitution the supreme court is supposed to be the highest appeal court and deal with cases that involve diplomats and other states.

Edit: and by the way, I'm not advocating any action in particular regarding that matter, but if I was starting a county from scratch, I would definitely not leave that job to lawyers.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Averon said:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ers-accountable-for-opposing-defunding-effort

Cruz Wants Conservatives To Hold GOPers 'Accountable' For Opposing Defunding Effort

Why is Cruz hellbent on making every GOP senator (sans Mike Lee) his enemy? What is his goal in inciting a GOP civil war?
Click to expand...
I don't know, but I am more than content to let him and I hope he runs for president.

Chichikov said:
It's definitely an oversight of the constitution.
And per the constitution the supreme court is supposed to be the highest appeal court and deal with cases that involve diplomats and other states.

Edit: and by the way, I'm not advocating any action in particular regarding that matter, but if I was starting a county from scratch, I would definitely not leave that job to lawyers.
Click to expand...
Who else is there? Serious question.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
Who else is there? Serious question.
Click to expand...
Let me put it this way, there are two ways to approach a constitution, as a strict prescriptive language that you interpret objectively, and as a living document that we put our ideas and opinions into.
If it's the former, the legal framework is just not that great, as all the 4-5 decisions along party lines and overturning show (and as someone who studied both linguistics and computers, let me promise you that it's very possible to come up with a non ambiguous clear prescriptive way of writing such document).
If it's the latter, then unelected lawyers who are appointed for life are not really the best people for job.

So to quit beating around the bush and answering your question, if we go with option A them it should be some professional bureaucracy (and it doesn't really matter) if you go with option B then it's some kind of an elected body.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
So let's say January 1st rolls around and Obamacare enrollment looks good. Most uninsured people who needed but couldn't afford insurance in the past signed up, and a sizeable number of young, healthy people enrolled in at least catastrophic coverage plans. What will the GOP opposition say then? Will the defund/repeal talk continue? Will they declare that Obamacare's success is actually a triumph of the free market against all odds? How will they square their continued criricsm of the law with reality?
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
Crisco said:
So let's say January 1st rolls around and Obamacare enrollment looks good. Most uninsured people who needed but couldn't afford insurance in the past signed up, and a sizeable number of young, healthy people enrolled in at least catastrophic coverage plans. What will the GOP opposition say then? Will the defund/repeal talk continue? Will they declare that Obamacare's success is actually a triumph of the free market against all odds? How will they square their continued criricsm of the law with reality?
Click to expand...
They'll cherry pick examples in which costs went up, people had issues, or they'll flat-out lie and obscure the truth a la Hannity.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Averon said:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ers-accountable-for-opposing-defunding-effort

Cruz Wants Conservatives To Hold GOPers 'Accountable' For Opposing Defunding Effort




Why is Cruz hellbent on making every GOP senator (sans Mike Lee) his enemy? What is his goal in inciting a GOP civil war?
Click to expand...

Here's what I think:

Cruz cannot win with the current GOP. His best strategy is therefore to change the GOP itself, even if it means short term losses.

It's a loser strategy but the best he's got.
 
B

bonercop

Member
Averon said:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ers-accountable-for-opposing-defunding-effort

Cruz Wants Conservatives To Hold GOPers 'Accountable' For Opposing Defunding Effort




Why is Cruz hellbent on making every GOP senator (sans Mike Lee) his enemy? What is his goal in inciting a GOP civil war?
Click to expand...

tea party crazies are the strongest force in republican primaries turn-out wise. he's preemptively making himself the tea party hero for 2016, while knocking down all his rivals on their asses, so that he'll get the republican nominee.

Of course, your guess is as good as mine as to how he's going to win the general election. i think he's hoping to pull a Romney and hope the electorate forgets once he gets the nominee.

..or he really just is the second coming of Herman Cain, and he's just going to fundraise as much as possible before comfortably dropping out of political life as a conservative icon(which is a very fruitful career-path. look at Palin).
 
S

Shao Kahn on the Lawn

Member
Averon said:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ers-accountable-for-opposing-defunding-effort

Cruz Wants Conservatives To Hold GOPers 'Accountable' For Opposing Defunding Effort




Why is Cruz hellbent on making every GOP senator (sans Mike Lee) his enemy? What is his goal in inciting a GOP civil war?
Click to expand...

It sets him up to run as the anti-establishment candidate for the Republican primaries in 2016. There are a lot of fools out there who think that the GOP is losing ground because they're not being conservative enough.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
bonercop said:
..or he really just is the second coming of Herman Cain, and he's just going to fundraise as much as possible before comfortably dropping out of political life as a conservative icon(which is a very fruitful career-path. look at Palin).
Click to expand...
This is my bet. He'll pull a DeMint.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Here's what I think:

Cruz cannot win with the current GOP. His best strategy is therefore to change the GOP itself, even if it means short term losses.

It's a loser strategy but the best he's got.
Click to expand...

if he REALLY wants to enact change, he needs to convince the tea party that the establishment is actively trying to limit their influence and the only way to get proper certified conservatives to fix the government would be to run as a third party candidate. Its the only true way Cruz, you know it
 
S

soul creator

Member
speculawyer said:
Yeah, that is what I was going to say. If they want to equate the two and call healthcare a fundamental right guaranteed by the constitution then we should drop photo ID requirement. I don't think that is a great idea but if that is what they want I guess we could compromise on that.


Of course they really don't mean that . . . their own 'victory' on changing the ACA was to strengthen income reporting checking.
Click to expand...

also, requiring a background check for access to dangerous weapons that result in thousands of deaths every year: massive violation of our treasured constitutional rights, oppose at all costs!

photo ID for voting: we're just trying to prevent (mostly non-existent) fraud!
 
M

mightynine

Member
bonercop said:
..or he really just is the second coming of Herman Cain, and he's just going to fundraise as much as possible before comfortably dropping out of political life as a conservative icon(which is a very fruitful career-path. look at Palin).
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding. He sees the dollar signs.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Hitokage said:
That's fine, but your remark how it's not in the constitution sounds a lot like anti-tax people who claim the income tax is not in the constitution. I just wonder what the Supreme Court is supposed to do otherwise when the constitution makes it clear on certain matters what Congress cannot do and which laws trump others.

It could certainly be handled differently, but the constitution makes no provisions for that.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not expressly in the constitution that the judiciary is the branch that finally determines the constitutionality of acts of Congress (or conduct of the executive). It was implied from the role of judicial courts generally as the final arbiters of disputes. It was, in short, a power grab. I don't really have a position on how this ought to work in my ideal society, but I feel I probably should as it's pretty important!
 
I

Incognito

Troll
i actually think cruz is different from the palin/cain type who simply wants to cash in. he wants political fame, not tv/movie/radio show gigs. hell, the dude already wears a patek phillipe and his wife is an IB at goldman, for pete's sake. this dude is the real deal, and he wants to be president, not some grifter on foxnews or am radio because that would be beneath him.
 
P

Piecake

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
So I just started to listen/read NPR.

Motherofgod.

Why haven't I done this before!?

Amazing group of people.
Click to expand...

Yup, I love NPR, specifically MPR. The Daily Circuit is easily the best show on there.

The only problem I have is that when the host has a discussion about entitlement reform she talks about how no democrat she has talked to is willing to make the hard choice and is willing to make cuts. I really want to call in (can't at work) and say just because its a hard choice doesnt mean its a good choice. Cutting entitlements is an insanely stupid idea because its just a cost shift. The underlying problem is the thing we should fix, and thats health care cost.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Incognito said:
i actually think cruz is different from the palin/cain type who simply wants to cash in. he wants political fame, not tv/movie/radio show gigs. hell, the dude already wears a patek phillipe and his wife is an IB at goldman, for pete's sake. this dude is the real deal, and he wants to be president, not some grifter on foxnews or am radio because that would be beneath him.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, he's going to be sorely disappointed.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
bonercop said:
tea party crazies are the strongest force in republican primaries turn-out wise. he's preemptively making himself the tea party hero for 2016, while knocking down all his rivals on their asses, so that he'll get the republican nominee.

Of course, your guess is as good as mine as to how he's going to win the general election. i think he's hoping to pull a Romney and hope the electorate forgets once he gets the nominee.

..or he really just is the second coming of Herman Cain, and he's just going to fundraise as much as possible before comfortably dropping out of political life as a conservative icon(which is a very fruitful career-path. look at Palin).
Click to expand...
It is bizarre. There is NO WAY he'd ever be elected president after the stunt he pulled. So either he's pretty delusional (which is very possible due to trapping himself in a right-wing bubble) or he's doing the conservative talking head icon career.

And he'll be much better at it than Palin because he is not complete idiot like her. Didja see that Fox News interview she just did? Wow, amazing. An AI chatbot would have been better.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
1379943_518365561586360_56631459_n.jpg


Oh, Facebook, you continue to amuse me.
Click to expand...

Well, it is valid concern for some isolated people. There are cases of complete innocent Arab & Iranian Americans that were detained after 9/11. But we have a legal system that works through those cases and releases people.

The white Christian nutters really don't need to worry about it except for the fact that their paranoid behavior makes them do crazy things (like join white power groups and commit crimes) which does then make them susceptible to being detained. So it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Sen. Rubio said, “The president has undermined this effort, absolutely, because of the way he has behaved over the last three weeks…It’s my position as well that the House deserves the time and space to craft their own solution. Now, this notion that they’re going to get in a room and negotiate a deal with the president on immigration is much more difficult to do for two reasons. Number one, because of the way the president has behaved towards his opponents over the last three weeks as well as the White House and the things they’ve said and done, and number two, because of things I’ve outlined to you. So I certainly think that immigration reform is a lot harder to achieve today than it was just three weeks ago because of what’s happened here.”
Click to expand...

KuGsj.gif


This guy was supposed to be the GOP's savior?
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
jamesinclair said:
I cant be the only one who doesnt know the difference between Rubio and Cruz, right?
Click to expand...

Their only differences are their achievements. Rubio failed at immigration reform, and Cruz succeeded at shutting down the government. That's apparently all you need on your resume to be in the running in the Republican primaries.
 
V

Videoneon

Member
The other people not opting in for Obamacare: Insurers

An average of eight insurers compete for business in 36 states that had exchanges run or supported by the federal government last month, the Department of Health and Human Services says. (Idaho has since started its own exchange.) But just because an insurer sells in a state, it doesn't mean it sells in every area of a state so many residents have far fewer options.
Click to expand...

Many state-run exchanges also have far fewer than HHS' average, which is weighted based on the number of uninsured residents in an area. Vermont has two, Kentucky has three and Nevada and Maryland each have four.

Some insurers pulled out of the exchanges required by the Affordable Care Act as the Oct. 1 launch approached. That leaves an uneven patchwork of providers — ranging from one insurer in New Hampshire and West Virginia to 16 in New York.

The difference also leads to a wide disparity in the numbers of plans, from just seven in Alabama to 106 in Arizona, according to HHS' analysis.
Click to expand...

"When there are too few carriers, down the road there will be issues with rate increases that make plans unaffordable for average Americans even with rate subsidies," says Bryce Williams, managing director of Towers Watson Exchange Solutions, which operates private insurance exchanges for companies. "We need competitive insurance markets in all states (and) multiple carriers competing hard."
Click to expand...

• Aetna. In May, Aetna acquired Coventry Health Care, which also had filed plans for some of the exchanges. Aetna dropped out of some states where Coventry filed plans and the reverse was true in other states.

On a combined basis, Aetna and Coventry plans will be available on a statewide basis in 10 state exchanges and in limited geographic areas in seven state exchanges. Spokesman Matthew Wiggin says the company "narrowed in on those states where we had the right cost structure and network arrangements to meet the specific demographic needs of exchange consumers." The result, he says, is the company's presence will deliver "long-term profitable growth.
Click to expand...

Some insurers said they dropped out of exchanges due to uncertainty. For Aetna, the new law could be "materially adverse," the company wrote in its second-quarter SEC filing, mentioning the new Medicare requirements, individual coverage mandate, rating limits and new fees and assessments. In states that didn't expand Medicaid, enrollment could also drop, Aetna wrote.

Carriers are "really worried" about a sicker population purchasing plans and driving down profits, Cusano said.
Click to expand...

Forgive if old news.

------

jamesinclair said:
I cant be the only one who doesnt know the difference between Rubio and Cruz, right?
Click to expand...

Rubio often has goofy serious look on his face. It's partially the eyebrows; I think he looks pretty funny, in a non-condescending way. It's hard to explain unless you think being around extremely straight people is funny. Anyway, he's also shorter. One time, he drank water. What is it with this party and water?

Cruz looks self important, and also has this doughy, soft face. Hair looks dumb.

thepotatoman and ParticlePhysicist have helpful descriptions, too. =P
 
C

commedieu

Banned
During an interview Sunday, Fox News host Chris Wallace asked Rubio if the president would delay parts of any immigration reform law the way he has delayed parts of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

“Certainly, the president has undermined this effort because the way he’s behaved over the last three weeks,” Rubio said, referring to the government shutdown.

He said the breech of trust after Obama undermined the efforts against Obamacare is reasonably making the GOP in the House unwilling to negotiate immigration reform with the president.

“You have a government and a White House … and what they say is ‘You’re going to pass an immigration law that has both some legalization aspect and some enforcement,’” Rubio said. “What’s not to say that this White House won’t come back and cancel the enforcement aspects of it?”

Rubio said the same House Republicans who used brinkmanship might have the best strategy for immigration reform.
Click to expand...

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/poli...rves-not-negotiate-immigration-after-shutdown

On a roll.. it seems.

edit;

whoops, blind.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Videoneon said:
The other people not opting in for Obamacare: Insurers[/UR
Forgive if old news.
Click to expand...


I was thinking that obamacare regions (states banding together to create a market - New Englandcare, etc) might be a solution, but then I remembered that insurance rates vary in states as well, so that might not be possible.

Well, I guess one way to do that would be have all of the hospitals and insurance companies in the area, state, region, etc negotiate prices together. I think that would help standardize prices and push down costs for areas that lack competition.

Too bad that that is DOA because Republicans have a hard on for buying across state-lines instead (Dumbest idea ever - see credit cards)
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tails-on-those-476000-obamacare-applications/

The way that this administration official described it, there are essentially three steps in applying for insurance through the marketplaces. The first is submitting an application that has information on income, state of residence, size of family and other personal details. It's essentially an online version of the paper application for families or individuals (or, for those not seeking financial help from the government, a simpler form).

The second step is eligibility verification: The federal government needs to check whether you qualify for the benefits you are seeking. They're checking to see whether your income might, for example, mean you qualify for Medicaid coverage or for a government subsidy to purchase a private insurance plan.

When that comes back, the process moves to step three: Shopping for a health insurance plan. This is the part where different options come up, and you're deciding which plan you actually want to buy.

The 476,000 shoppers that the Associated Press wrote about have submitted full applications, this administration official said. In that sense, they're done with the first step in the process. That being said, they're still at the start of the shopping process, with two more steps between where they are right now, and where they'd be after enrolling in a health plan.
Click to expand...

Looks like the 476k have actually all submitted applications not just created an account..

Also

Mike Allen ‏@mikeallen 2m

BREAKING: President's health-care event tomorrow (Rose Garden, 11:25 a.m.) will include people who have applied/enrolled thru marketplaces
Click to expand...

Put a face to the people who are benefiting. The media needs to stop covering existing law an an abstract political battle
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
What a clusterfuck.

They should have been using consulting firms from the start.
Click to expand...

GOP has been blocking funds in congress even though HHS had to make exchanges for all the red states who refused to create their own. At this point, they are probably just calling in favors from Silicon Valley
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Videoneon said:
The other people not opting in for Obamacare: Insurers



Some insurers said they dropped out of exchanges due to uncertainty. For Aetna, the new law could be "materially adverse," the company wrote in its second-quarter SEC filing, mentioning the new Medicare requirements, individual coverage mandate, rating limits and new fees and assessments. In states that didn't expand Medicaid, enrollment could also drop, Aetna wrote.

Carriers are "really worried" about a sicker population purchasing plans and driving down profits, Cusano said.


Forgive if old news.
Click to expand...

Oh, boo hoo. What a damn shame.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
CoffeeJanitor said:
The law is only as good/effective as its implementation.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the website is just a tiny percent of the program. It is something that will be fixed eventually although this has been been a bit of a clusterfuck.


What will matter is how many new people get coverage, how much it costs, whether they get the right mix of new people signing up, whether it can control costs a bit, etc.


I imagine there are going to be some problems, some projections will be wrong, some things will not quite work as planned but hopefully with some adjustments, the system can get to work.
 
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