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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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Ignorant correlations between religion and bad politics. Blaming Islam for terrorism, Blaming Christianity for right wing politics and completely ignoring things like the catholic social justice movement, islam's great tradition of charity, they see religion as the cause of problems rather than religion being used to further poisonous ideas.
No. Both Dawkins and Maher fully admit that religions do good things.

And there is always this false equivalency issue about Islam. Sam Harris gets slammed for this all the time. But the objective statistics and polling shows that Islam does tend to be a religion that causes more terrorism and violence than other religions. That is just a fact and the politically correct people (like on that show) will talk about Christians that do violence. And it is true that there are crazy violent Christians such as the abortion doctor killers and the people that call for gay people to be put in camps and what not.

But the fact is that Islam is a more discriminatory religion than Christianity. This should come as no surprised to anyone since the Bible is viewed as "inspired by god" whereas the Koran is viewed as the "literal word of god". Thus, Christianity allows people to pick & choose what they want to believe . . . and people largely do this (thank god ;-) ) thus ignoring much of the horrid stuff within the Bible. But it is harder for Muslims to ignore the crazy stuff in the Koran if it is really supposed to be the literal word of God.

I don't think it is random coincidence that Muslim world is still mired in massive homosexual persecution, creationism, sexism, etc. while much of the Christian world has moved past that. Are there still extremist Christians that push that stuff? YES! Lots of them. But not nearly at the level as it is in the Islamic world.

If you don't like their views . . . that is fine. But don't call them douchebags for espousing their views. Criticize what you view as wrong about their views.
 
Really? Here it is that I thought I voluntarily turned to listen to his program. But I guess they somehow magically caused me to listen so they can 'shove their own beliefs down everyone's throats'? No. Feel free to not listen. Just like I don't listen to the Christian Radio stations and don't whine about them.


Again, these seems very vague to me and you are just doing what you accuse them of doing.


Well that is odd. They are both huge critics of the Iraq war. I would understand if you use that criticism on the late Christopher Hitchens who backed the war but not these two.

I'm am offend (and I am sure they would be as well) by your lame assertions of "their religion". The DO NOT HAVE A RELIGION. That is the point of atheism. And you can make your lame claims about "their religion" but that doesn't make them true.
Both religion and lack of religion (atheism) can become ideology just as quickly as the other. Both Maher/Dawkins and fire and brimstone Preacher shove their ideology down the throat of everyone just as aggressively as each other. Preacher thinks everyone who doesn't follow him is going to hell, while Dawkins thinks anyone who believes in God or religion is automatically stupid and inferior. It doesn't matter if they want you to listen to them on radio. Whenever they are on, they preach it. There is no difference.
 
You win some you lose some. There is nothing redeeming about West Virginia politics that I care if the democrats ever hold any office in that state.
Agreed. It'd be great if Natalie Tennant could hold the Senate seat but if the choice is between a Republican and another Joe Manchin, then whatever. Better Democrats have higher odds in Kentucky and Georgia anyway.
 
Santorum: Cruz hurt the GOP

Former Sen. Rick Santorum said on Sunday that Sen. Ted Cruz had harmed the Republican Party in his crusade to defund Obamacare that helped bring about the government shutdown.

"I would say in the end, he did more harm. I think it was not his objective," the former Republican senator from Pennsylvania and GOP presidential candidate said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I think his objective was a laudable one. I think he didn't do a very good job of planning it out. I think it's one thing to have a goal and another thing to have a plan to get you to that goal."

Santorum said Texas senator is not the face of the Republican Party.

(PHOTOS: Key quotes from Ted Cruz)

"Unlike the Democratic party who has a leader, has the president, there isn't a leader in the Republican Party right now. That's part of the problem. That's part of the mess and the confusion," Santorum said. "But that's always the way it is with a party out of power. You have lots of different faces and those faces, as we've seen, they come and they go."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/10/santorum-cruz-did-more-harm-176010.html?ml=po_r

Surprising decision by Santorum. He gains nothing by criticizing Cruz; he can't move to the center obviously, and on paper he's probably more extreme than Cruz but his voting record makes him a nonstarter with primary voters. I can't wait to see Cruz, Paul, etc rip him apart in debates.
 
No. Both Dawkins and Maher fully admit that religions do good things.

And there is always this false equivalency issue about Islam. Sam Harris gets slammed for this all the time. But the objective statistics and polling shows that Islam does tend to be a religion that causes more terrorism and violence than other religions. That is just a fact and the politically correct people (like on that show) will talk about Christians that do violence. And it is true that there are crazy violent Christians such as the abortion doctor killers and the people that call for gay people to be put in camps and what not.
Where has Dawkins and Maher admit religion do good things? If I remember correctly Maher made a movie about how dumb religion is and took a big shit on everyone that is religious. There is an argument to be made about things like forcing textbooks to include stuff from bible and other shit like that, but he goes way beyond that. There is no false equivalency. Sam Harris is a racist cunt that wants to profile "everyone that looks like a Muslim" at the airport. Sorry, but Sam Harris can go fuck the right off. That is why he gets slammed. Islam does not causes terrorism. More than 95% of all suicide bombings are in response to foreign occupation.

There's just one problem: We now know that this narrative is not true.

New research provides strong evidence that suicide terrorism such as that of 9/11 is particularly sensitive to foreign military occupation, and not Islamic fundamentalism or any ideology independent of this crucial circumstance. Although this pattern began to emerge in the 1980s and 1990s, a wealth of new data presents a powerful picture.

More than 95 percent of all suicide attacks are in response to foreign occupation, according to extensive research that we conducted at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Terrorism, where we examined every one of the over 2,200 suicide attacks across the world from 1980 to the present day. As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, which have a combined population of about 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide have risen dramatically -- from about 300 from 1980 to 2003, to 1,800 from 2004 to 2009. Further, over 90 percent of suicide attacks worldwide are now anti-American. The vast majority of suicide terrorists hail from the local region threatened by foreign troops, which is why 90 percent of suicide attackers in Afghanistan are Afghans.

The theory that Islam causes terrorism is simply a myth that people like Sam Harris, Spencer, Pipes, Geller and Dawkins can further their neo-imperialist agendas. Bill Maher wants to be a court jester for them. Ideology fills in blank part of the brain that wants to influence people. Majority of the people keep that space distant from religion (or non religion) but there are a few that want to keep the power structures in place or are afraid of change. By the way, Christian terrorism did not begin when zealots started bombing abortion clinics. Lets not forget how we used to lynch black people up the trees just 60 years ago.
But the fact is that Islam is a more discriminatory religion than Christianity. This should come as no surprised to anyone since the Bible is viewed as "inspired by god" whereas the Koran is viewed as the "literal word of god". Thus, Christianity allows people to pick & choose what they want to believe . . . and people largely do this (thank god ;-) ) thus ignoring much of the horrid stuff within the Bible. But it is harder for Muslims to ignore the crazy stuff in the Koran if it is really supposed to be the literal word of God.
...has nothing to do with topic at hand but your display of incoherence.
I don't think it is random coincidence that Muslim world is still mired in massive homosexual persecution, creationism, sexism, etc. while much of the Christian world has moved past that. Are there still extremist Christians that push that stuff? YES! Lots of them. But not nearly at the level as it is in the Islamic world.
It's also not a random coincidence that majority of these places were colonized, pillaged, ransacked and divvied up by the European powers and are now lacking in social development, education and other factors. It's unfair to call them backwards and socially retarded when the collective West for centuries kept them in chains and exploited their power structures for it's own gain.
 
Both religion and lack of religion (atheism) can become ideology just as quickly as the other. Both Maher/Dawkins and fire and brimstone Preacher shove their ideology down the throat of everyone just as aggressively as each other. Preacher thinks everyone who doesn't follow him is going to hell, while Dawkins thinks anyone who believes in God or religion is automatically stupid and inferior. It doesn't matter if they want you to listen to them on radio. Whenever they are on, they preach it. There is no difference.

So let me get this straight . . . going to hell for all eternity is just as bad as some guy thinking your are stupid and inferior (which they don't really think but let's assume it is true).

OK, yeah, they are completely equal. Got it.
 

Chichikov

Member
And there is always this false equivalency issue about Islam. Sam Harris gets slammed for this all the time. But the objective statistics and polling shows that Islam does tend to be a religion that causes more terrorism and violence than other religions. That is just a fact and the politically correct people (like on that show) will talk about Christians that do violence. And it is true that there are crazy violent Christians such as the abortion doctor killers and the people that call for gay people to be put in camps and what not.

But the fact is that Islam is a more discriminatory religion than Christianity. This should come as no surprised to anyone since the Bible is viewed as "inspired by god" whereas the Koran is viewed as the "literal word of god". Thus, Christianity allows people to pick & choose what they want to believe . . . and people largely do this (thank god ;-) ) thus ignoring much of the horrid stuff within the Bible. But it is harder for Muslims to ignore the crazy stuff in the Koran if it is really supposed to be the literal word of God.
I think it's more of a function of the societies in which Islam is practiced and its orthodoxy is formed than something inherently different about Islam itself.
A couple of more notes -
  1. Jews believe that the Torah is the literal word of god, even when it's translated.
  2. Theologically speaking, the doctrine of biblical inspiration doesn't really allow you to pick and choose, the "democratization" of Christianity actually mostly stem from the elevation of the Bible by Luther to a word of god like status (sort of, it's complicated, read more about sola scriptura if you're interested) as it allowed when coupled with other protestants beliefs for varied and at times personal interpretations of scripture.
 

Piecake

Member
So let me get this straight . . . going to hell for all eternity is just as bad as some guy thinking your are stupid and inferior (which they don't really think but let's assume it is true).

OK, yeah, they are completely equal. Got it.

Pretty much since both believe that their way of thinking is superior to the other. You really won't find a decent, civil conservation or understanding with those types of people
 
No. Both Dawkins and Maher fully admit that religions do good things.

And there is always this false equivalency issue about Islam. Sam Harris gets slammed for this all the time. But the objective statistics and polling shows that Islam does tend to be a religion that causes more terrorism and violence than other religions. That is just a fact and the politically correct people (like on that show) will talk about Christians that do violence. And it is true that there are crazy violent Christians such as the abortion doctor killers and the people that call for gay people to be put in camps and what not.

But the fact is that Islam is a more discriminatory religion than Christianity. This should come as no surprised to anyone since the Bible is viewed as "inspired by god" whereas the Koran is viewed as the "literal word of god". Thus, Christianity allows people to pick & choose what they want to believe . . . and people largely do this (thank god ;-) ) thus ignoring much of the horrid stuff within the Bible. But it is harder for Muslims to ignore the crazy stuff in the Koran if it is really supposed to be the literal word of God.

I don't think it is random coincidence that Muslim world is still mired in massive homosexual persecution, creationism, sexism, etc. while much of the Christian world has moved past that. Are there still extremist Christians that push that stuff? YES! Lots of them. But not nearly at the level as it is in the Islamic world.

If you don't like their views . . . that is fine. But don't call them douchebags for espousing their views. Criticize what you view as wrong about their views.
This just isn't true and is imposing and outsider's view on to the understanding of the religion. The fact that today there are more islamic terrorists than christian terrorists doesn't mean islam promotes more violence. There are geo-political factors that push many of these people towards the violence they commit (this is not a justifications but their stated reasons though I do hesitate to make policy based off it). It just so happens that islam is much more tied up in identity in these parts of the world making it useful to use by political forces. The things that make them terrorists can be the same things that make them muslim rather than the religion causing it. Islam isn't more violent by definition. History shows that there are periods where its much more peaceful than other religions/ But the Koran hasn't changed.

Your comment about their differing interpretations of the bible and koran stands out to me because it imposes an outside standard without allowing the followers to challenge it. The bible to many is the literal word of god to many Christians many muslims don't take the Koran as something to be taken without the act interpretation but you've just told me that's wrong. Your categorical distinctions group many into a group they might not belong into and reinforces your notions. Its a stereotype and not much different than racism. It takes a characteristic of a person and supposes their behavior based on that.

My problem is they take the religion as the evil instead of horrible interpretations of it. Your seeking a easy way out to define the bad guys.
 
So let me get this straight . . . going to hell for all eternity is just as bad as some guy thinking your are stupid and inferior (which they don't really think but let's assume it is true).

OK, yeah, they are completely equal. Got it.
Dawkins is not "some guy". He has made millions preaching his brand, and has a very large following. And actually, Dawkins saying religious people are idiots is worse than a Pastor screaming about hell and lake of fire. One has tangible results in the real world we live in, affects people's behavior while the other has no real effect in the real world other than "finding salvation" .
 

Sadsic

Member
Dawkins is not "some guy". He has made millions preaching his brand, and has a very large following. And actually, Dawkins saying religious people are idiots is worse than a Pastor screaming about hell and lake of fire. One has tangible results in the real world we live in, affects people's behavior while the other has no real effect in the real world other than "finding salvation" .

religion has had a much bigger impact on humanity than dawkins me thinks
 

Videoneon

Member
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/10/santorum-cruz-did-more-harm-176010.html?ml=po_r

Surprising decision by Santorum. He gains nothing by criticizing Cruz; he can't move to the center obviously, and on paper he's probably more extreme than Cruz but his voting record makes him a nonstarter with primary voters. I can't wait to see Cruz, Paul, etc rip him apart in debates.

Yeah. Browsed the Sunday paper recently and George Will did a profile on him. Some notes on Santorum v.2013

---Suspicious of the Eastern Elites who want to focus on economic issues and nix social issue discussion

---Suspicious of the Libertarian Faction who want to nix the strong foreign policy presence

---Government has a role in the economy (this shouldn't be a surprise, considering his comment that was skeptical of the "rising tide lifting all boats" idea)

---people aren't ready for a significant withdrawal of government from their lives (so, not entirely cozy with Tea Party)

---Was under the impression that he was very close to maintaining prominent GOP candidate status (something like a faulty tally for a state's primary showed Romney winning, it went to press, recount showed Santorum won and if the proper results were reflected first he might have clinched the nomination)

---the most he'll say on 2016 is that he is doing "everything consistent with running"
 
But the objective statistics and polling shows that Islam does tend to be a religion that causes more terrorism and violence than other religions.

Yeah, no. First, the metrics are biased. The US commits more violence than any formal or informal organization on the planet and has for the last 60 years. Ergo, it is clear that Christians are, by far, the most violent group. This isn't even arguable or debatable. Second, if we assume the baised metric of terrorism in which acts by Christians are almost uniformly excluded, then, still no. What you are measuring is something entirely different from religion. You are measuring political and social instability, and, yes, Middle Eastern countries tend to be running quite high in that regard. Of course, the reason for that is due mostly to the sheer happenstance of the vast energy resources upon which those countries sit and the West's desire for control over them. So we're right back to Christians again.
 

Jimothy

Member
Dawkins is not "some guy". He has made millions preaching his brand, and has a very large following. And actually, Dawkins saying religious people are idiots is worse than a Pastor screaming about hell and lake of fire. One has tangible results in the real world we live in, affects people's behavior while the other has no real effect in the real world other than "finding salvation" .
A pastor saying terrible things about gays doesn't have tangible results in the world we live in? What fucking planet are you on. If calling Christians dumb is the worst thing Dawkins is guilty of, I'd say he's doing pretty well in the grand scheme of things. Doesn't mean he isn't a douchebag but you really need to qualify your outrage.
 
Yeah. Browsed the Sunday paper recently and George Will did a profile on him. Some notes on Santorum v.2013

---Suspicious of the Eastern Elites who want to focus on economic issues and nix social issue discussion

---Suspicious of the Libertarian Faction who want to nix the strong foreign policy presence

---Government has a role in the economy (this shouldn't be a surprise, considering his comment that was skeptical of the "rising tide lifting all boats" idea)

---people aren't ready for a significant withdrawal of government from their lives (so, not entirely cozy with Tea Party)

---Was under the impression that he was very close to maintaining prominent GOP candidate status (something like a faulty tally for a state's primary showed Romney winning, it went to press, recount showed Santorum won and if the proper results were reflected first he might have clinched the nomination)

---the most he'll say on 2016 is that he is doing "everything consistent with running"

Santorum will definitely run. Traditionally republicans tend to nominate the "next in line" candidate. However, republicans also tend to field a candidate out of nowhere who resets the "next in line" board; Ike and W Bush come to mind. The Bush succession line (McCain/Romney/Santorum/etc) has been severed though, so IMO Santorum doesn't have a shot. 2016 will either be the final 15 minutes of fame for the tea party (Cruz, Paul, etc) or a replay of 2000's compassionate conservative moderate (Christie, Jeb Bush, etc).
 
Yeah, no. First, the metrics are biased. The US commits more violence than any formal or informal organization on the planet and has for the last 60 years. Ergo, it is clear that Christians are, by far, the most violent group. This isn't even arguable or debatable. Second, if we assume the baised metric of terrorism in which acts by Christians are almost uniformly excluded, then, still no. What you are measuring is something entirely different from religion. You are measuring political and social instability, and, yes, Middle Eastern countries tend to be running quite high in that regard. Of course, the reason for that is due mostly to the sheer happenstance of the vast energy resources upon which those countries sit and the West's desire for control over them. So we're right back to Christians again.

I often disagree with EV but this, in a nutshell, it the truth behind perceptions of Islam.

Fuck with a bunch of countries to the point that they become radicalized, and then blame the local religion? Yeah, sure that's a fair assessment of the religion... not.
 

pigeon

Banned
Look at that populism. I cannot make any sense of how to work with this.

This is all part and parcel of the economic collapse of Appalachia, a region which depended economically on American manufacturing (gone in the new service economy), American textiles (same deal), American coal (already tapped out and now blown away by fracking), and American timber (just barely hanging on).

Here's Appalachian poverty rates as a percentage of national rate:

Poverty_Rates_2007-2011_Relative_Map.gif


Remember that NPR report on disability payments, and how people were using the program to provide for basic subsistence, perhaps because they couldn't find work?


Way back in 2012 I liked to post a clip from a reporter who went through Appalachia and found that most of the people there thought Obama was an okay guy doing his best. The problem was that almost none of them were planning to vote, because that's how little faith they had in the federal government's willingness to address their endemic problems. That's how you get populists and demagogues (and voters like ThisWreckage). It should be no surprise that people in West Virginia think the government doesn't work. It hasn't worked for them for a while, and it's something we really ought to make a greater effort to address.
 
Santorum will definitely run. Traditionally republicans tend to nominate the "next in line" candidate. However, republicans also tend to field a candidate out of nowhere who resets the "next in line" board; Ike and W Bush come to mind. The Bush succession line (McCain/Romney/Santorum/etc) has been severed though, so IMO Santorum doesn't have a shot. 2016 will either be the final 15 minutes of fame for the tea party (Cruz, Paul, etc) or a replay of 2000's compassionate conservative moderate (Christie, Jeb Bush, etc).

The "next in line" thing is just a cop-out for Republicans to not run against an incumbent.
 
Way back in 2012 I liked to post a clip from a reporter who went through Appalachia and found that most of the people there thought Obama was an okay guy doing his best. The problem was that almost none of them were planning to vote, because that's how little faith they had in the federal government's willingness to address their endemic problems. That's how you get populists and demagogues (and voters like ThisWreckage). It should be no surprise that people in West Virginia think the government doesn't work. It hasn't worked for them for a while, and it's something we really ought to make a greater effort to address.
To be fair, and not to underplay the president's role in running the country (which is important), it's hard for many people to connect the dots between what the president does and their everyday life. State legislatures and city councils have a far more immediate effect on their life and the local economy. The problem is people are even LESS interested in those elections.
 
You win some you lose some. There is nothing redeeming about West Virginia politics that I care if the democrats ever hold any office in that state.

The whole point of the article is that that West Virginia has been reliably democratic since its founding. I live in West Virginia. I'm not a native of the state. I grew up in Maryland. I know that most of you think that we are all inbred redneck hillbillies. It's not true. Coal is a big deal for the southern part of the state, but the rest of us have moved on. The part of the state I live in is a bedroom community for Northern Virginia and D.C. The only thing I take issue with in the article is the idea that the Tea Party hasn't taken root here. Where I live in the state, we are certifiably metropolitan but Ted Cruz might as well be worshipped as the second coming of Christ.

I mean, I'm a liberal. It's hard being a liberal here these days. It's a bunch of Tea Party people railing against the government when one in five here live on food stamps.

Even as a liberal, I feel we are one of those states that are just ignored national election time. We were so reliably Democratic that I think the party took us for granted. Again, I'm a liberal, but I think the only time Obama stepped foot in our state was after the Upper Big Branch Mine disaster and Byrd's funeral. I voted for him for him the past two elections. Ohio is like our twin brother. It would just give us a little more confidence if they sent some Dems to visit once and awhile. Manchin's fucking done. In most parts of the country he'd be considered a conservative. The attempt at the national gun registry law is probably the death of his career. Capito is a shoe-in for the Senate btw. Still remember the day she washed her hands in front of me with anti-bacterial soap after shaking my hand. It's going to be red for a long time here.
 

bonercop

Member
A pastor saying terrible things about gays doesn't have tangible results in the world we live in? What fucking planet are you on. If calling Christians dumb is the worst thing Dawkins is guilty of, I'd say he's doing pretty well in the grand scheme of things. Doesn't mean he isn't a douchebag but you really need to qualify your outrage.

The worst thing Dawkins does isn't calling christians "dumb", it's perpetuating a worldview wherein the middle-east is just a collection of uncivilized savages. Helps a lot to legitimatize guys like this.
 
Amid the sense of gridlock that has become the norm in the U.S. Senate, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) is now threatening to block every single nomination from the Obama administration until he gets what he wants on Benghazi — again.

On Sunday evening, CBS’ 60 Minutes aired a new report on the attack in Benghazi, Libya that took place last year, examining the nature of the attack, which analysts are now calling pre-planned. This differs greatly from the early days and weeks after the attack, when members of the administration were still attempting to find out what went wrong and what led to the deaths of four Americans, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens.

In that light, and still on the hunt for a White House cover-up, Graham was on Fox News on Monday, advocating for yet another look into the tragedy, echoing the demands of the most conspiracy-minded members of the House of Representatives:

GRAHAM: So I am calling for a joint select committee. But for God’s sake, let the House have a select committee where you get three or four committees together to look at this situation as one unit rather than stove piping. And where are the survivors? 14 months later, Steve, the survivors, the people who survived the attack in Benghazi, have not been made available to the U.S. congress for oversight purposes. I’m going to block every appointment in the United States Senate until the survivors are being made available to the Congress. I’m tired of hearing from people on TV and reading about stuff in books.

“We need to get to the bottom of this and to my house colleagues, Darrell Issa has done great job,” Graham continued in his Fox interview, referring to the many House Oversight Committee hearings that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) has held related to the attack. Issa himself, however, has admitted that he did not learn much in his last major round of public hearings.

In demanding that a special committee be convened in the House to take over the Benghazi investigation, Graham is aligning himself with many of the more conservative members of the House Republican caucus and against Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-OH) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY). Rep. Frank Wolff (R-VA) has been rallying conservatives to press Boehner for a special committee for months now, aligning himself with outside groups who have attempted — and failed — to show that public opinion is on their side. Despite their past failures, Graham’s decision to join their ranks will surely help him fend off the Tea Party challenger he’s facing ahead of the 2014 midterm elections.

This is not the first time at all that Graham has threatened to take hostages in the Senate to get his way, nor even the first time his demands have related to Benghazi. Graham issued a warning about no nominations proceeding unless the Port of Charleston received the $50,000 needed to be deepened back in 2011. In Dec. 2012, Graham threatened to allow the U.S. to go over the so-called “fiscal cliff” unless the Social Security age was raised.

On Benghazi itself, Graham has had his exact demands change along with his targets. CIA Director John Brennan was threatened not to be confirmed unless Graham was able to learn precisely who changed the infamous “talking points” that now-National Security Advisor Susan Rice delivered the week after the attack. He also swore to not allow a vote on Chuck Hagel’s nomination as Secretary of Defense unless his predecessor Leon Panetta testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Both of those demands were met, showing that the CIA itself was the one who deleted references to al Qaeda from Rice’s talking points and allowing Panetta to chide the SASC’s Republicans for treating the military like a 911 service.

Graham’s threat comes just as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) prepares a new wave of Obama administration nominees to be brought before the Senate. Even before the threat to hold all of these nominees was issued, Senate Democrats have been mulling the so-called “nuclear option” of allowing for votes to proceed with a majority 51 votes, ending the threat of the filibuster on certain types of vot
es.

Ironically enough, Graham recently chastised his colleagues for blocking an up or down vote on the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, calling it the “wrong” thing to do.

KuGsj.gif
It's obvious these fuckers are STILL salty that Bengahzi didn't cost Obama the election.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Actually NPR did a series of reports on the disqbility stuff. I remember the reporter talking about a doctor giving disability recommendations willy nilly.
Carry on, then!

Still, it's easy to confuse "doctor giving out recommendations willy nilly" with "doctor who sees a large number of undereducated people who can't find equivalent work anymore due to injury."
 

KingGondo

Banned
All Things Considered (an NPR program) aired some segments of the This American Life disability report (which was produced by PRI). This American Life aired the full segment.

The overall gist of the report was that while these people might not be "disabled" in the traditional sense of the word, various physical ailments were making it difficult for these people to find work in their communities. Virtually every job in some places in the US relies upon some form of physical ability (i.e. not a desk job).

At the same time, you do have unscrupulous attorneys exploiting the system to their maximum advantage, but that doesn't mean we should throw away Social Security Disability as a program.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
This is completely tangential to the idea of "wasteful spending", but...

The show I work on went down for 5 weeks on hiatus. I start back up on Monday. During the off-season, which was incredibly short (though we didn't even know we were coming back until last Friday), I went on unemployment

Or so I thought I would. This has been a frustratingly slow process. If I didn't have savings, and let's be honest, parents to provide me a loan at one point, I would have been screwed. 4 weeks later and it finally looks like I'm getting my EBT card.

For a family that's living paycheck to paycheck, someone being laid off would be shit out of luck. Not to mention every continuing benefits claim I get comes with a note saying that the paltry amount that is dolled out per week has been cut due to sequestration. We need to make these programs MUCH easier to access and more efficient by increasing their staff and scope than gutting benefits.
 

Wilsongt

Member
This is completely tangential to the idea of "wasteful spending", but...

The show I work on went down for 5 weeks on hiatus. I start back up on Monday. During the off-season, which was incredibly short (though we didn't even know we were coming back until last Friday), I went on unemployment

Or so I thought I would. This has been a frustratingly slow process. If I didn't have savings, and let's be honest, parents to provide me a loan at one point, I would have been screwed. 4 weeks later and it finally looks like I'm getting my EBT card.

For a family that's living paycheck to paycheck, someone being laid off would be shit out of luck. Not to mention every continuing benefits claim I get comes with a note saying that the paltry amount that is dolled out per week has been cut due to sequestration. We need to make these programs MUCH easier to access and more efficient by increasing their staff and scope than gutting benefits.

Bootstraps. A hard, honest, God loving American would have found 15 part time jobs to work during that time.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
This is completely tangential to the idea of "wasteful spending", but...

The show I work on went down for 5 weeks on hiatus. I start back up on Monday. During the off-season, which was incredibly short (though we didn't even know we were coming back until last Friday), I went on unemployment

Or so I thought I would. This has been a frustratingly slow process. If I didn't have savings, and let's be honest, parents to provide me a loan at one point, I would have been screwed. 4 weeks later and it finally looks like I'm getting my EBT card.

For a family that's living paycheck to paycheck, someone being laid off would be shit out of luck. Not to mention every continuing benefits claim I get comes with a note saying that the paltry amount that is dolled out per week has been cut due to sequestration. We need to make these programs MUCH easier to access and more efficient by increasing their staff and scope than gutting benefits.

But if we do than then you're just going to get comfortable on welfare and then you'll NEVER get a job!
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Bootstraps. A hard, honest, God loving American would have found 15 part time jobs to work during that time.

I know you're joking, but I actually couldn't -- we were going to start the Monday after we were renewed, which made it very difficult to try to apply for anything even slightly longer term because there was always the spectre of the fact that I could be back on this show in a week. And no part time job was going to cover rent.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I know you're joking, but I actually couldn't -- we were going to start the Monday after we were renewed, which made it very difficult to try to apply for anything even slightly longer term because there was always the spectre of the fact that I could be back on this show in a week. And no part time job was going to cover rent.

Could have moonlighted as a prostitute. =P
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So 60 minutes had a story about BENGHAZIBENGHAZIBENGHAZI last night.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157981n

According to some, this confirms that Obama and Hillary has lied to us the entire time, etc, etc, etc.

I said god damn.

Just finished watching all of it, and it really says absolutely nothing everyone shouldn't have already known, but it doesn't really discuss the political issue, which is was it an inexcusable mistake to not have more guard patrol and to tell the CIA officers to stand down, and who made that mistake?

Whether the stand down order was wrong or not is still debatable, and the lack of guards seems like a natural oversight that might happen when you have a military as big and active as we do.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Just finished watching all of it, and it really says absolutely nothing everyone shouldn't have already known, but it doesn't really discuss the political issue, which is was it an inexcusable mistake to not have more guard patrol and to tell the CIA officers to stand down, and who made that mistake?

Whether the stand down order was wrong or not is still debatable, and the lack of guards seems like a natural oversight that might happen when you have a military as big and active as we do.

Yet, the same people who are going to take this story and run with it as if it's their Holy Grail of Impeach Obama are the same people who don't know the facts, anyway. So, all CBS did was piss off that wasp nest yet again.
 
Just finished watching all of it, and it really says absolutely nothing everyone shouldn't have already known, but it doesn't really discuss the political issue, which is was it an inexcusable mistake to not have more guard patrol and to tell the CIA officers to stand down, and who made that mistake?

Whether the stand down order was wrong or not is still debatable, and the lack of guards seems like a natural oversight that might happen when you have a military as big and active as we do.

I doubt it had much to do with oversight. It was a CIA operation that relied on foreign security.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
KuGsj.gif
It's obvious these fuckers are STILL salty that Bengahzi didn't cost Obama the election.
Amazing how he was actually one of the voices against the government shutdown, but is essentially threatening to do the same thing here. It's like they don't learn anything.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I was at the hospital today taking my newborn in for a check and Fox News was on. Of course, the main topic was Benghazi.

I thought it was proven that the general public doesn't even care about the topic.
 

Piecake

Member
http://www.minnpost.com/effective-d...proposal-change-how-we-elect-members-congress

This is a really interesting article on how to reform the house electoral system to make it more representative of the actual electorate and not representative of primary voters.

Basically, how they do it is by multi-member districts (we apparently had these before!) and rank system voting. Both are designed so that candidates need to appeal to a wider audience because being a person's second or third choice could make a huge difference. multi-member districts obviously expands that audience.

It won't happen, but I like the idea

Bootstraps. A hard, honest, God loving American would have found 15 part time jobs to work during that time.

MPR did a segment on inequality and I liked one of the points one of the guests made. If people had equal opportunity we wouldnt see 42% of the people born into the bottom 20th percentile remain in the bottom 20th percentile. Obviously, that number should be 20%, not 42%.
 

KingGondo

Banned
I was at the hospital today taking my newborn in for a check and Fox News was on. Of course, the main topic was Benghazi.

I thought it was proven that the general public doesn't even care about the topic.
Fox News isn't targeted at the general public. It's pure red meat for right-wing Republicans.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Dawkins is not "some guy". He has made millions preaching his brand, and has a very large following. And actually, Dawkins saying religious people are idiots is worse than a Pastor screaming about hell and lake of fire. One has tangible results in the real world we live in, affects people's behavior while the other has no real effect in the real world other than "finding salvation" .

Wait. I'm with you but the last bit is almost insulting. You don't think people screaming about fire and brimstone, the wrath of god, and eternal damnation has a "tangible effect" on people's earthly behaviors beyond just prompting them to "seek salvation"?

What am I misunderstanding?
 
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