Aaron Strife
Banned
Crist has risen
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout
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NYCmetsfan
Banned
Is anyone picking up double down tomorrow? I need me some hot political gossip.
And then Republicans will blame Dodd-Frank for somehow causing it.
RustyNails
Member
Let us know if any of our Obama Hillary fanfic made it in.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Which is why we need to actually pass legislation that works instead of trying to please business and the GOP .
I try not to support books like that. Those aren't really reporting books, but just books with a bunch of sources who have axes to grind.
Today's cover of the NY Post, lol
The article is even funnier. Basically NYU had a trip for their top students every year and that year happened to be to Lithuania and Russia. Way to make more out of something than is really there NYPost. Really classy reporting guys.
EDIT: Also it wasn't much of a secret since they found it out from him
I think rentals is a better idea for most people than ownership. Home rentals are a bit trickier since you dont get the density discount, but you still gain flexibility to move and take new jobs, which is something that is essential to the lower middle class.
I also think its far less likely that someone will splurge on a rental like they would on a house, and you know what you are paying with a rental. You might not realize that the cost of a house is a hell of a lot more than the mortgage.
As far as the investment vehicle, well, it seems a lot safer than shitastic mortgages piled together since an entity who owns the house can actually afford it, and if the renter is not paying you can kick him out and probably find a new one.
Still, its a dick move. tank the mortgage market forcing a lot of these people to sell underwater because they can't afford it, buy up those houses on the cheap and then rent them out. Dickish. Still, i think we will be better off with less home ownership than more, especially on the young, middle to low end.
Armoured Priest
Member
From the renter's point of view, yeah, this counts for a lot. If you own your house, you are the one that has to pay for upkeep, and repairs. Generally speaking, if your renting, the landlord is on task to do that stuff, and it can amount to a lot.
What will probably happen is single homes will get broken down into apartments...2-4 units depending on the size of the house.
Again, pretty crappy, but there is a silver lining for the renters.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I'm gonna probably get it through that prime free book a month. So I doubt I'm giving them a lot. But the book does provide entertainment so I don't think there is too much wrong with it.
I'm just finishing up "this town" which I'd highly recommend to poligaf as it skewers the DC-media establishment exactly what double down is a party of. I might write a review or something
PhoenixDark
Banned
No, when we bail out the banks again we'll be reminded that Dodd-Frank doesn't do much to address the issue at all, and was the product of compromise.
Fenderputty
Banned
Obviously not everyone is cut out to own a home. Still, having done both rent and own, I would say that if you can, you probably should at least consider owning.
The tax break is rad. The equity gain is nice as well. It's a safe investment (for the most part). It's also something that direct hard work can improve. I've fixed a lot on my house and will be doing my kitchen soon (mostly myself as well). All of my friends and myself have made nice gains in our equity since purchasing 2-4 years ago.
The flexibility to move doesn't bother me as I would never move away from my family.
home ownership is a terrible investment though. It doesnt beat inflation. If you bought your homes 2-4 years ago you probably bought it below market value thanks to the housing sector crashing. Thats not going to happen when housing prices normalize.
Soviet Union is the new Nazi.
Fenderputty
Banned
Note I said safe not most lucrative. This also depends on what you do with your house post ownership. My parents have made a ton on property because they buy and fix up rather than just sit on the investment. It depends on where and when you're looking of course as well. The tax right off is nice too.
Think about it. What other investment can a middle class person actually use their own hands and hard work to improve upon?
This isn't to knock renting BTW.
Black Mamba
Member
I always tell people the same thing.
Buy your own home if you want to stay there for like 30 years. Otherwise, don't.
Home ownership is generally a bad investment (exception being when you catch a bubble at the right time). In fact, it's not an investment at all IMO. It's simply a consumption or pure store of wealth (matches inflation over time).
People tend to only compare mortgages and tax credit to rental rates. But there's so much more. You pay all utilities. You pay property tax. You pay maintenance. You pay insurance. You sometimes pay neighborhood fees. Depending on what you have in your home (back yard? pool?) these things can add up a lot. Then you have the opportunity cost of not having your money you otherwise use in real investments.
On the other hand, buying subsequent property can be a good investment. Renting out to people and stuff. But for your own dwelling, I would never look at it as a personal investment in your future. A lot of the time, you'd actually do better by renting.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Even if it doesn't beat inflation, at least you're building equity compared to spending money on rent that you'll never ever see back. Utilities, maintenance, taxes, mortgage interest, and homeowners usually doesn't total to be more than the renting rate, especially right now when rents are so damn high everywhere.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
I was on the site and still had trouble discerning if it was TheOnion or not
It depends on what you are renting. If you are renting a home, you are probably not getting a good deal. Like I said, the benefit of renting the home is mobility, which might pay huge gains or it might not. If you are renting an apartment? You can be sure itll be a lot cheaper than the cost of a house since you get the density discount.
Two other aspects that you are forgetting are the down payment and transportation costs. The down payment is no joke. You'll be putting 10-20% down on a 350k house when you could have put that money into an index fund and got a 7% annual return on that investment in 30 years instead of 2%.
Transportation is ridiculous as well. If you do apartment living you are likely living in the city close to your work, meaning that you either have access to public transportation or are so damn close you can simply walk or bike there (Its damn nice). The average person spends 60 cents a mile on transportation, which ends up being about 9k a year.
Black Mamba
Member
I really hope Ted Cruz wins the nomination for just his reason. Will they say he is not conservative enough when he gets slaughtered? Inquiring minds want to know.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Ugh...
Tell me...how conservative do you have to be to be "conservative enough!"
They've been moving the goal posts for five years!
zero shift
Banned
No one puts 10-20% down anymore. Apartments still charge utilities to the occupant. In MOST cases renting and housing costs are within a few hundred dollars.
The only times renting comes out on top is comparing condos to luxury apartments in downtown affluent areas in my experience.
Paying 3-5% down and building equity while getting tax breaks beats renting every time in my book. Especially with most rental companies requiring credit checks and security deposits these days.
The only times renting comes out on top is comparing condos to luxury apartments in downtown affluent areas in my experience.
Paying 3-5% down and building equity while getting tax breaks beats renting every time in my book. Especially with most rental companies requiring credit checks and security deposits these days.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The guy who won the Nobel prize this year said something similar
NYCmetsfan
Banned
this. its not a hard concept but so many people think that buying is always better than renting.
Black Mamba
Member
Robert Shiller, who has IMO wrote both the best books on the dot com bubble and the sub-prime and housing bubble. (as well as came as close as anyone to actually prediction the crash, especially in timing).
Also half responsible for the Case-Shiller index.
Also mostly responsible for demonstrating the historical values of home ownership and why it's not a good investment.
Yeah, I've gotten a lot of my opinions about housing from him over the last decade or so.
Well, Shiller, the dude who just won the 'nobel' in economics disagrees with you and has done extensive research on the topic.
http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-shiller-home-investment-a-fad-2013-2
In my case, renting is far cheaper than owning. I could buy a cheap, piece of shit house for 150k somewhere in the city or suburbs (i think) on 5-10% down and pay 820 a month in mortgage or continue to rent out my apartment for 700 a month, pay only electricity on top of that, and be 2 blocks away from my work. Seems like a no brainer to me
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Then why is buying better if your not going to ride a bubble or stay there forever? youre paying a few hundred more but paying for mobility, not having a large down payment (which makes buying in a city out of reach for most), not doing much if any upkeep, and saving on transport costs.
Housing is popular because it was sold to the public through the American dream and as a status symbol. Who buys an investment that is immobile and constantly used (consumed)?
Never though of that too. Makes a lot of sense. I hate the look of most houses built in the later half of the 20th century I would pay a premium to stay out of them.
Bel Marduk
Banned
Is anybody else positively giddy about Cuccinelli going down tomorrow? There's no way he could win unless turnout is ridiculously low. Wish I could say the same for Chris Christie..
RustyNails
Member
People forget the human factor when deciding on renting vs owning and get lost in the cost wars. It really is up to individuals as well. There are some folks who need the city environment, convenience of public transport and lots of activity nearby to keep them sane. If you pluck them out and put them in a nice cozy 3 bedroom home in a subdivision with no streetlights, let alone people, they will die. Reverse is true of suburbanites too. People should decide on that first and then make the move, not just buy a house for the sake of owning. it is not for everyone.
Fenderputty
Banned
Meh ... I look at houses like they're a canvas to be worked on. Find a crappy home in nice area. Does the lot have room to add square footage? If yes, does the roof need to be cut into with a new roofline added to do this? If yes, look for another home.
I grew up with a bunch of tradesmen though, so I realize my viewpoint is biased.
If my intention was to buy and sit for 30 years, I would probably rent as well.
I grew up with a bunch of tradesmen though, so I realize my viewpoint is biased.
If my intention was to buy and sit for 30 years, I would probably rent as well.
Have you been looking at skewed polls again? He's gonna win by a landslide.
zero shift
Banned
Anybody have any opinions on this article about prison "myths"?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2009/02/reform_school.single.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2009/02/reform_school.single.html
speculawyer
Member
Me. I am always happy to see theocrats lose.
As for the tax deduction being an awesome deal, it really isnt anything special
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/the-myth-of-the-tax-deduction/
Surpringly, the interest rate on your loan barely goes down. Honestly, it looks like a very stupid tax deducation because it favors the upper-middle and upper class significantly more than middle and lower-middle.
Simple fact is, the standard deduction for many is more than they pay in interest on their mortgage
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/the-myth-of-the-tax-deduction/
Surpringly, the interest rate on your loan barely goes down. Honestly, it looks like a very stupid tax deducation because it favors the upper-middle and upper class significantly more than middle and lower-middle.
Simple fact is, the standard deduction for many is more than they pay in interest on their mortgage
Black Mamba
Member
Which is part of the reason why I mention if you're planning on staying there for 30 years, then you might want to buy.
But to make sure you understand it's a consumption, not an investment.
Buying your home means you can decorate how you want. Want to tear down the wall? you can do it. Do you have to have a pool? Do you desire a guesthouse? Etc.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a home. Buying a home goes you certain freedoms. Just understand they come at a cost and realize it's like buying a WiiU, not investing in a business.
Rhomega Beta
Member
No, no, no. Obama is Hitler! He's the one that's going to throw Republicans, Christians, and rich people into death camps! In order to be truly conservative, you have to be this guy:
zero shift
Banned
A slave owner?No, no, no. Obama is Hitler! He's the one that's going to throw Republicans, Christians, and rich people into death camps! In order to be truly conservative, you have to be this guy:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cooch tried running away from his abortion and sodomy views, only to crawl back. If Virginia republicans should be mad at anything it's that
A. Activists not just elected a bad state-wide candidate for governor, they tied him to a radical extremist Lgt. Gov.
B. Republican donors jumped ship to the democrat
No, no, no. Obama is Hitler! He's the one that's going to throw Republicans, Christians, and rich people into death camps! In order to be truly conservative, you have to be this guy:
You mean the man that dismantled the US military?
I doubt it. I really don't have any faith in the current republican crop to reform. They care too much about ideological purity. The only way I see it changing is if we do some electoral reform, such as weakening the primary system through top 2 or top 4, or do something like multi-distrcit and ranked voting.
If that doesnt happen, I think we are going to have to wait until all the boomers and Reaganites die off. It really seems that the whole cold war really warped their view into some good and evil fight. The evil now is democrats since helping the poor and government programs is evil communism that will ruin our country
ridethepiggy
Banned
Ugh. Just spoke with a coworker about the Bible, Christianity, debating all of that good stuff. I was stating that I don't hold the view that everything the Bible says is 100% true, or meant to be taken as fact. Well, he brought up the point that we don't know Obama's real middle name and there are countless different claims as to what the name is (not sure where he was going). My mouth was agape.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Checkmate!
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