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PoliGAF 2014 |OT2| We need to be more like Disney World

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C

Coriolanus

Banned
I dispute the Wonka positive review. Wonka gives him the factory, the fuck is that shit? Hand-me-downs from strangers? Fuck that noise, he shoulda built his own and driven willy and his slave labour practices out of business and straight into death, instead of entering a raffle in order to try and beg his way into riches. Charlie is as much of a leech as leech family.

ok, yeah.

“Beauty and the Beast”

A young woman rejects a financially independent hunter in favor of an unemployed nobleman who lives off of the labor of others. Also, there are no trains in this movie. I did like the talking clock, who attempted to take pride in his work despite constant attacks on his dignity by the candlestick. The candlestick did not take his job seriously. —Two stars.
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I

ivysaur12

Banned
I gotta say, as far as accomplishments go, Obama is going to leave some nice ones behind. Healthcare, DADT repeal, immigration reform, Cuba relations…
 
D

Diablos

Member
Despite the economy improving and gas prices going down the public doesn't seem to want to give Obama any credit. Blame it on the networks and interest groups making an unprecedented amount of noise, Obama's inability to project confidence in where the nation is going, or the GOP -- or maybe all three -- but the reality is not enough people want to credit him with things he should be getting credit for.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Diablos said:
Despite the economy improving and gas prices going down the public doesn't seem to want to give Obama any credit. Blame it on the networks and interest groups making an unprecedented amount of noise, Obama's inability to project confidence in where the nation is going, or the GOP -- or maybe all three -- but the reality is not enough people want to credit him with things he should be getting credit for.
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They're not?

So has the number of those approving of President Barack Obama's job performance—to 45 percent, the president's highest in more than a year. So has the number approving of Congress—to 16 percent. So has the number predicting the economy will improve in the next year—to 31 percent.
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W

Wilsongt

Member
If true, fucking thanks Obama:

Appearing on HuffPost Live Thursday, Glenn Greenwald went after former Vice President Dick Cheney for his comments about torture on Meet the Press, and said President Barack Obama enabled Cheney to appear on the show because the president did not prosecute the architects of the CIA’s torture tactics.

Greenwald said he was not surprised that Cheney stood by his stance that torture was successful, and said that argument is “completely irrelevant” because it has been banned by international treaties and laws. He then said Cheney should not even be a free man, and that President Obama is to blame for that.

“The reason why Dick Cheney is able to go on Meet the Press instead of being where he should be, which is in the dock at The Hague or in a federal prison, is because President Obama and his administration made the decision not to prosecute any of the people who implemented this torture regime, despite the fact that it was illegal and criminal,” Greenwald said.

He also said the president sent the signal that torture is not a crime that should be punished, but simply a policy debate that should be debated on Sunday shows, adding that Obama “emboldens torture.”
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/greenwald-obama-is-the-reason-why-cheney-is-not-in-federal-prison/
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Wilsongt said:
If true, fucking thanks Obama:



http://www.mediaite.com/online/greenwald-obama-is-the-reason-why-cheney-is-not-in-federal-prison/
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Honestly, the prosecution question is uncomfortably tricky, from an international law perspective. I'd love to throw these guys under the bus as much as anyone, but nobody really wants to allow their citizens to be tried in foreign courts (and war crimes like torture would have to be tried in international courts, from what I understand) since it weakens that country's sovereignty. So I think that Greenwald is oversimplifying things.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Diablos said:
Eh, let me know when he's >50% for extended periods of time
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You said:

Despite the economy improving and gas prices going down the public doesn't seem to want to give Obama any credit.
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To which I responded with:

So has the number of those approving of President Barack Obama's job performance—to 45 percent, the president's highest in more than a year.
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If you want to move goal posts, that's on you.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
thepotatoman said:
It's very true. It's why the ACLU wants Obama to do a presidential pardon so that he'd at least have a stance on that stuff being illegal, as it's a step up from ignoring that anything illegal ever happened.
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Yes. Also, throwing Cheney in jail is a non-option. Dick Cheney will never go to jail. The best that Obama can do is pardon him, so he has the implicit stench of guilt associated with his name.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Poodlestrike said:
Honestly, the prosecution question is uncomfortably tricky, from an international law perspective. I'd love to throw these guys under the bus as much as anyone, but nobody really wants to allow their citizens to be tried in foreign courts (and war crimes like torture would have to be tried in international courts, from what I understand) since it weakens that country's sovereignty. So I think that Greenwald is oversimplifying things.
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They could be prosecuted under US law as well.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
thepotatoman said:
It's very true. It's why the ACLU wants Obama to do a presidential pardon so that he'd at least have a stance on that stuff being illegal, as it's a step up from ignoring that anything illegal ever happened.
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How does this work with the international war crimes courts? If we admit that it's torture, doesn't Cheney & Company move out of the President's jurisdiction? I'm not sure he can pardon people who've committed crimes under international law.

B-Dubs said:
They could be prosecuted under US law as well.
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Huh. Are you sure? Thought it became an international thing by default.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Poodlestrike said:
How does this work with the international war crimes courts? If we admit that it's torture, doesn't Cheney & Company move out of the President's jurisdiction? I'm not sure he can pardon people who've committed crimes under international law.



Huh. Are you sure? Thought it became an international thing by default.
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Torture is illegal under US law as well, it's in the constitution, there's no need to cede it to an international court when we could just as easily try them here.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Poodlestrike said:
How does this work with the international war crimes courts? If we admit that it's torture, doesn't Cheney & Company move out of the President's jurisdiction? I'm not sure he can pardon people who've committed crimes under international law.
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International law is quite complex and I barely know anything about it, but I believe that the United States generally treats treaties as equivalent to any other piece of legislation passed by congress. A US treaty is US law unless Congress specifically acts to change it.

Likewise, the US has seemed to generally avoid any agreements that gives an outside group like the ICC jurisdiction to enforce US treaties.

In any case, even if the US was a full member of the ICC and completely admitted to torture that was illegal in international law, it's still unlikely the ICC would be any more confident about prosecuting it than the US is themselves. ICC indicts, they don't show up to court, and then what, other than them making the whole process look like a joke. Fugitives are going to happen, but such high profile ones that still go on TV and talk to millions of people like nothing ever happened?

International criminal courts are mostly the last resort before war/revolution, or to tidy up the aftermath of a war/revolution because, as you say, everyone involved knows no country is going to willingly give their own leaders up to outside courts unless there is something like war or revolution brewing behind it.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
thepotatoman said:
International law is quite complex and I barely know anything about it, but I believe that the United States generally treats treaties as equivalent to any other piece of legislation passed by congress. A US treaty is US law unless Congress specifically acts to change it.
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More like international law is made of duct tape and spit. But anyway.

An ICC trial would mean quite a lot. Would never happen, but would mean quite a lot. The single most important factor would be the ICC issuing an arrest warrant, which would mean that if Cheney and the like ever set foot in any of these lovely green places? yeah.
863px-ICC_member_states.svg.png


Would also mean that anyone could always ignore whatever the fuck he says by countering with "aren't you an international fugitive?". So, y'know, win win.

Yes, completely joining the ICC would mean giving up a bit of sovereignity. The horror. God forbid that you bring yourselves to higher standards than China or Russia. Would also mean that you could pester people into joining the ICC, so win win, really. Well, except for, y'know, the kind of people that engage in genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. Those guys would be pretty fucked, yeah. And by pretty fucked i mean that they might get prosecuted before they die of old age. Maybe. Strong perhaps.

Not like the ICC ever sues people from first world countries, anyway.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
So the US and Israel pulled off probably the most sophisticated and covert cyber attack ever with the Stuxnet virus that did years worth of damage to Iran's nuclear enrichment program. NK manages to steal some emails and media files from a private entity and are suddenly the baddest boys around? Come on, this is bush league stuff, and Sony especially is low hanging fruit. Fucking high schoolers hack their shit all the damn time.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Torture is illegal under US law as well, it's in the constitution, there's no need to cede it to an international court when we could just as easily try them here.
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Huh. Alright, then. If he can't prosecute them for political reasons, then I suppose the pardon idea will do.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
So why isn't there a thread yet about how Obama managed to bring down the entire Russian economy with a few strokes of a pen? Weak leader lol
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
So this is a couple of weeks old, and is small beans, but it shows some of the problems with our democracy.

Clovis has 101,000 people, which is small, but not tiny. The local government runs on a council system, so the mayor is just a a name position filled by a council member on a rotating basis. That is, the council is top of the local pile.

For the third straight election cycle, Clovis voters appear unlikely to go to the polls to elect City Council members in March.

The three incumbents, Harry Armstrong, Jose Flores and Bob Whalen, all took out nomination papers for the March election. But nobody else took out nomination papers at Clovis City Hall or the Fresno County Elections Office.

That will leave City Council members in what’s become an increasingly familiar scenario: canceling the March election for lack of candidates.

The election was canceled in 2011 when the same three candidates ran for office, and again in 2013, when the nominations of council members Lynne Ashbeck and Nathan Magsig went uncontested.
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Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/12/05...l.html?sp=/99/406/263/267/1379/#storylink=cpy

No elections between 2009 and 2017 because no one gives enough of a shit to run?

Thats a disgrace.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Why a competitive Democrat should run against Isakson:

@Nate_Cohn
White share of the electorate in Georgia drops to 63.5 percent in 2014, down from 66.3 in 2010
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B5PN2HwIEAEsJvi.png:large


‏@Nate_Cohn
Black turnout in Georgia rose to 28.7 percent of the electorate, up from 28.3 in 2010.
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Even with the white electorate (understandably) up a tick from 2012, Nunn was still able to run ahead of Obama.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
WayneMorse said:
Obama said Sony was wrong to pull the Interview.
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But did he call it a terrorist attack?

I want to know if we're looking at another 2 years of intense investigations around Obama not calling something a terrorist attack.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
Coriolanus said:
More like international law is made of duct tape and spit. But anyway.

An ICC trial would mean quite a lot. Would never happen, but would mean quite a lot. The single most important factor would be the ICC issuing an arrest warrant, which would mean that if Cheney and the like ever set foot in any of these lovely green places? yeah.
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God I can only imagine the absolute circus that that would entail and I want nothing more than for that happen now that I've imagined it.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Coriolanus said:
Not like the ICC ever sues people from first world countries, anyway.
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That's my main point. I can see both sides of whether or not it's a good idea to make Bush and Cheney into international fugitives being harbored by the US, but since it wont happen it doesn't really matter, and Obama should go ahead with calling it illegal.
 
T

teiresias

Member
If the White House can't keep track of whether someone on staff talked to the SPE management then no wonder we'll never know the truth behind Benghazi
Still shady of Obama to throw Sony under the bus like that.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Coriolanus said:
More like international law is made of duct tape and spit. But anyway.

An ICC trial would mean quite a lot. Would never happen, but would mean quite a lot. The single most important factor would be the ICC issuing an arrest warrant, which would mean that if Cheney and the like ever set foot in any of these lovely green places? yeah.
863px-ICC_member_states.svg.png


Would also mean that anyone could always ignore whatever the fuck he says by countering with "aren't you an international fugitive?". So, y'know, win win.

Yes, completely joining the ICC would mean giving up a bit of sovereignity. The horror. God forbid that you bring yourselves to higher standards than China or Russia. Would also mean that you could pester people into joining the ICC, so win win, really. Well, except for, y'know, the kind of people that engage in genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. Those guys would be pretty fucked, yeah. And by pretty fucked i mean that they might get prosecuted before they die of old age. Maybe. Strong perhaps.

Not like the ICC ever sues people from first world countries, anyway.
Click to expand...

Well a lot of countries (rightly) criticize the USA on torture. I wonder if they would arrest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. if they travel to their countries? I think those guys are mostly staying in the USA partly out of fear that that could happen. I think Bush did visit Canada though.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
speculawyer said:
Well a lot of countries (rightly) criticize the USA on torture. I wonder if they would arrest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. if they travel to their countries? I think those guys are mostly staying in the USA partly out of fear that that could happen. I think Bush did visit Canada though.
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I bet they have to at least call up the equivalent to the attorney general and double check that they wont be under arrest, and the answer is probably something like "we wont arrest you, but could you still stay away so we don't have to deal with a million people demanding us to arrest you".
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
speculawyer said:
Well a lot of countries (rightly) criticize the USA on torture. I wonder if they would arrest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. if they travel to their countries? I think those guys are mostly staying in the USA partly out of fear that that could happen. I think Bush did visit Canada though.
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The US constant shitting on human rights on an international level is pretty much the only reason yall havent signed that thing properly yet. I mean, which us prezzes in recent memory would be legit clean by the ICC? Bush Senior? Clinton? Sure as fuck wouldnt be obama.

Wouldnt even matter, since as soon as you joined youd start vying for proper control of the thing, as always.

Doubt any normal country would try to fuck with an ex us prez without DAMN good cause. Too risky and very little to no payoff.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Crisco said:
So the US and Israel pulled off probably the most sophisticated and covert cyber attack ever with the Stuxnet virus that did years worth of damage to Iran's nuclear enrichment program. NK manages to steal some emails and media files from a private entity and are suddenly the baddest boys around? Come on, this is bush league stuff, and Sony especially is low hanging fruit. Fucking high schoolers hack their shit all the damn time.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why Sony and Movie Theaters are even giving a shit about this. It's embarrassing that they think anything will come of it, and Obama was right to call them out and say it sets a silly precedent. As an aside, Stuxnet is one of the most fascinating bits of programming I've ever read about. I remember Wired did a massive spread about it and it was ridiculous. These NK Nationalists are nothing compared to what the US and Israel are capable of, I can assure you of that.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
gop-rape-mention-colbert-e1351196968121.jpg


Lawmaker Defends ‘Legitimate Rape’ Bill

A Missouri lawmaker who filed a bill requiring women seeking abortions to obtain notarized consent from the man who impregnated them defended the measure in an interview with 41 Action News on Thursday.

“It took two to come together and create a child, and right now the way it is the woman gets the full say and the father gets no say, and I think that that needs to change,” Brattin said. “With the women’s movement for equal rights, well it’s swung so far we have now taken away the man’s right and the say in their child’s life.” He added, “It’s a child’s life that’s taken. The woman’s life is not altered.”

Brattin’s bill includes an exception for victims of “legitimate rape” who report the crime to the police.

“Just like any rape, you have to report it, and you have to prove it,” Brattin told Mother Jones earlier this month. “So you couldn’t just go and say, ‘Oh yeah, I was raped,’ and get an abortion. It has to be a legitimate rape… I’m just saying if there was a legitimate rape, you’re going to make a police report, just as if you were robbed.”

Provisions that require women to prove the “legitimately” of sexually assault are a standard feature of state-level bans on Medicaid funding for abortion and many states force rape victims to produce a police report to obtain coverage for an abortion. Sexual assault prevention experts, however, point out that rape is a vastly underreported crime, with the majority of victims never reporting the assault to authorities. According to one study, just 37 percent of the women who qualify for eligible abortions under Medicaid’s exceptions actually end up getting their procedures funded by the program.

The bill, which is still in committee, would also establish a 72-hour waiting period for abortion procedures.
Click to expand...
 
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