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[Bam Bam Baklava]

If Trump wins Iowa there's no way he's not getting the nom right? Good to see Bernie surging in the polls as well. If he doesn't get the nom I can always switch to Trump in the general.

What policies do Trump and Sanders share that make them appealing to you?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Depends how many of us buy tickets. There's a crossover point at like a dozen.

I laughed.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Bernie's policies must mean a lot to you.

What policies do Trump and Sanders share that make them appealing to you?

Bernie's policies mean nothing to him if he's going that route.

 

[Plinko]

If Trump wins Iowa, pack it up. It's done. I'll start my victory lap.

 

[Teggy]

Guys what is more likely, one of us winning the Powerball or Jeb winning the Republican nom

Well I literally read an article this morning that said you, the buyer, have a better chance to be elected president than winning powerball.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Hillary saying that Sander's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to republican governors. Is there any truth to that?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Bernie's policies mean nothing to him if he's going that route.

Sounds like pure ignorance and personality politics. What amazes me though is the pride with which this user chooses to display their willful ignorance with.

Just gotta stick it to those establishment folks you know. I'm sure they'll be in agony surrounded by their billions of dollars if Trump becomes President. Not minorities or women or anything like that, they'll do great.

 

[NeoXChaos]

If Trump wins Iowa, pack it up. It's done. I'll start my victory lap.

you and the other 22 Trumpeteers.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Well I literally read an article this morning that said you, the buyer, have a better chance to be elected president than winning powerball.

 

[Daniel B·]

As you guys might have missed my [post=191882508]post[/post], on why a conflicted (none of the GOP candidates "cut the mustard" for him), fiscally conservative, liberally minded voter (ISideWith scores of 87%/86% for Hillary / Bernie), should vote for Bernie:

If you want a President that will, do his damndest, to make our government work better for the American people, and not the corporations, vote for Bernie.

Anyone today, who still repeats "but he isn't electable", or "we'd be risking a Trump presidency, so Hillary is the safe choice", hasn't been paying attention, as Bernie does consistently better, than Hillary, and by some margin, in GOP matchups, where he wipes the floor with Trump, and does well against the other candidates, too. On the other hand Hillary, also beats trump, but by half the margin, and she actually loses to some candidates. What this could ultimately mean, is that if Trump is the GOP nominee, Bernie would win "yuge", and likely retake the Senate, and makeup good ground in the House. Hillary wouldn't win anywhere near as big (yay, I must go out and vote for four more years of Washington politics as usual, where crony-capitalism is the only business in town...), so, very much like Obama, in every conceivable way (TPP; she, of course, actually still loves the corporate "wet dream" giveaway), she would be stimied by the GOP (the only policies she could even hope to pass would have to be GOP friendly, i,e. include tax and/or spending cuts).

Classing Bernie as a "socialist", is bogus, as he is absolutely in favor of a well regulated capitalist economy, but, he, like the overwhelming majority of Americans (including you?), would do everything in his power to combat crony-capitalism, for example, instead of subsidising corn production, so corporations can maximise profits, by selling us cheap, nutrient dificient junk food, he would promote the growth of fresh fruit and vegetables, in combination with sustainable farming methods (the likes of Monsanto would become yesterday's failed science experiment).

The only "social" programs he's in favor of, such as the widely popular Social Security and Interstate Highway programs, are ones where it is more cost effective, for the American people, where these programs are run efficiently, by the government, on a non-profit basis. Any idea that a government run program can't be run efficiently, is complete rubbish; it simply requires top-down resolve to ensure we are getting value for money, and if not, we hire new people, just like you would in the private sector.

The bottom line is, a vote for Bernie, in the primaries and beyond, is a vote to say "We wan't our Democracy back!", and it's long overdue that, the American government started to truly represent what's in the best interests of the American people, and not Wall St., the corporations, and the super rich.

If the American people vote to reject this truly "genuine guy", who has and would work extremely hard for all of us (74? That's the new 54, and did you know Bernie was Captain of both his High School Cross-Country and Track teams?), no matter whether you're a woman, a man, black, or white, gay or striaght, and instead vote for the Wall St, darling, Hillary Clinton, who still wants to maintain the disastrous war on drugs (inc. marijuana), with four more years of government stagnation, they will have missed a massive opportunity, for at least the prospect of a bright American future.

 

[User1608]

Bernie's policies mean nothing to him if he's going that route.

Bernie and Trump's platforms/policies couldn't be more different from each other. People are odd and ignorant in a best case scenario where they want to switch to a racist if Bernie fails to get the nomination. If they knowingly do so, no respect.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

What policies do Trump and Sanders share that make them appealing to you?

Maybe he's a single issue voter, and that issue is "literally anyone but Hillary." Apart from that, I can't think of a single issue Trump and Bernie overlap on.

 

[Cybit]

No Republican candidate is going to be for single payer in any way, shape, or form. Trump will grab some plan from the Reformcons that'll he praise "as even better than single payer, Obamacare, or the trash the Republicans had before", will be pro-life because that's how you get the base to turnout, and will use the free speech argument on campaign finance reform.

Because that's what most people who would ever vote for Donald Trump believes. There is no secret left-wing economic Trump campaign coming.

This is where I point out that Trump has basically said zippo about his policies outside of "DARN FOREIGNERS" and some tax plans that he'll happily flip-flop on. I think if any candidate is basically wearing policy teflon (and has the ability to change their mind and not get punished for it politically); it would be Trump.

I mean, heck, Trump (and every candidate) has a major out when it comes to specific policies - they'll point to Obama v Congress and go "I can't promise anything until I know that Congress is willing to work with the President". It's been rather mind-boggling to me that Republicans are falling so heavily into line with Trump even though he's not really articulating much if any substantive policy.

He's not winning because people agree with his policies; he's winning because he's appealing to emotion and identity without really tapping much into policy.

What policies do Trump and Sanders share that make them appealing to you?

I don't think the poster cares about policies - I think they care about a) anti-establishment and b) it's an identity / emotional thing. They think the system is broken, and these are the two candidates outside the system. Bernie's right in that he could get a decent chunk of the angry Trump voters. He does tap into the anti-establishment aspect, and the poll numbers (Bernie losing to Clinton but beating Trump specifically by a bigger margin than Clinton) seem to back that story up currently.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Hillary saying that Sander's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to republican governors. Is there any truth to that?

Probably on at least some level because of the constitutional restraints on federal market intervention. Same for Obamacare [hence why JBE's election in Louisiana was so significant], though, or any possible health system. Sanders' private universal healthcare bill basically just expanded Medicare to everyone, so it'd probably see the same variations by state that Medicare sees by state.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

As you guys might have missed my [post=191882508]post[/post], on why a conflicted (none of the GOP candidates "cut the mustard" for him), fiscally conservative, liberal minded voter (ISideWith scores of 87%/86% for Hillary / Bernie), should vote for Bernie:

Why the hell would someone who describes themselves as fiscally conservative vote for Bernie Sanders? Whether you agree or disagree with the policies, it's not exactly the right fit with their self-described ideology.

 

[dramatis]

Hillary saying that Sander's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to republican governors. Is there any truth to that?

Did he ever release a policy paper for that? Can only find a drug prices section on his site.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Did he ever release a policy paper for that? Can only find a drug prices section on his site.

He released a whole private member's bill.

http://www.healthcare-now.org/index.php?s=Bernie+Sanders+S.+1782

Scroll down and there's a link to the whole document. Mind you, some of the details have probably changed since.

 

[User 406]

Why the hell would someone who describes themselves as fiscally conservative vote for Bernie Sanders? Whether you agree or disagree with the policies, it's not exactly the right fit with their self-described ideology.

If someone asks what kind of topping would be good on a hot dog, DanielB-'s gonna explain why Bernie Sanders is their ideal candidate. And then repost it in here.

The OP of the thread in question does sound like a centrist Democrat who hasn't realized that the "government spending is out of control!" meme he's been fed all along is a lie. He took the predictit test and sure enough Hillary and Bernie were his tops.

Oh, and anyone who is willing at this stage to vote for Trump can go directly to racist, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 KKK spacebux. There's no excuse whatsoever.

 

[JesseEwiak]

He's not winning because people agree with his policies; he's winning because he's appealing to emotion and identity without really tapping much into policy.

He's appealing to the emotion of identity of working class people who already believe in right wing policies. Outside of the South, the DNC still wins the working class.

If Trump is somehow the nominee, I'll happily donate $50 to the charity of your choice if Trump ever comes out for a repeal of Citizen's United, any form of single player health care plan, or backs down from his position on abortion.

 

[Daniel B·]

Why the hell would someone who describes themselves as fiscally conservative vote for Bernie Sanders? Whether you agree or disagree with the policies, it's not exactly the right fit with their self-described ideology.

Because he's likely against crony-capitalism, just like plenty of Republicans, and Bernie's policies probably wouldn't effect him personally, a great deal, and he might rejoice in a resurgence in the once envied american Middle Class .

P.S. The "The only "social" program" paragraph was missing key text (PS3 1k cut / paste limit), and I updated it.

 

[Veritigo_X]

P.S. The "The only "social" program" paragraph was missing key text (PS3 1k cut / paste limit), and I updated it.

you're posting from a ps3?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

you're posting from a ps3?

It only does everything Sanders.

 

[ivysaur12]

If Trump wins Iowa there's no way he's not getting the nom right? Good to see Bernie surging in the polls as well. If he doesn't get the nom I can always switch to Trump in the general.

lol

Guys, remember this Pulitzer-winning post when PP endorsed Hillary?

Also the first time a woman candidate is heavily favored to be president. What a coincidence.

Bernie has long been advocating for women's rights, including reproductive rights, paid family leave, healthcare for mothers, and yes, expanding Planned Parenthood. But of course no one takes Bernie seriously because he is a man.

Reverse sexism at its finest.

 

[B-Dubs]

It only does everything Sanders.

Typing with a controller, that isn't a tablet or the Steam controller, seems like it would be massively annoying.

lol

Guys, remember this Pulitzer-winning post when PP endorsed Hillary?

He's never going to live that shit down for as long as he posts on GAF.

 

[Cybit]

He's appealing to the emotion of identity of working class people who already believe in right wing policies. Outside of the South, the DNC still wins the working class.

If Trump is somehow the nominee, I'll happily donate $50 to the charity of your choice if Trump ever comes out for a repeal of Citizen's United, any form of single player health care plan, or backs down from his position on abortion.

I'm curious to see if Clinton and Trump are the nominees; whether at least a decent chunk (5%? 10%?) of the working class folks who were behind Sanders move over to Trump. There definitely at least currently appears to be something behind the idea that Trump and Sanders have some overlap of supporters based on the polling data currently.

I still think Trump isn't going to win the nomination - even if it turns into the RNC completely stepping in - but I'll keep the donation in mind. (Child's Play is the charity if it comes to it) I think his abortion position will be "Roe v Wade is the law of the land" and leave it at that.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Typing with a controller, that isn't a tablet or the Steam controller, seems like it would be massively annoying.

It supports a keyboard and mouse, but using that browser for literally anything makes me want to kill myself.

lol

Guys, remember this Pulitzer-winning post when PP endorsed Hillary?

Aw yeah, I remember that guy. He totally bailed once he got called out.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Because he's likely against crony-capitalism, just like plenty of Republicans, and Bernie's policies probably wouldn't effect him personally, a great deal, and he might rejoice in a resurgence in the once envied american Middle Class .

P.S. The "The only "social" program" paragraph was missing key text (PS3 1k cut / paste limit), and I updated it.

If conservapedia is to be trusted, then Bernie Sanders is the direct opposite of fiscal conservatism and actively campaigns as such.

Fiscal conservatism is a political position (primarily in the United States) that calls for lower levels of public spending, lower taxes and lower government debt.

This is why the electability question is not some phantom issue. Sanders has to go out there and campaign on RAISING TAXES against a party that routinely wins the tax issue. People also still think the deficit directly impacts their lives so he has to explain why it would go up. People also hate the government more than they hate crony-capitalism so he has to explain and justify government expansion.

All of this against a party that have been EXTREMELY effective campaigners on all three issues for decades.

 

[dramatis]

Hillary saying that Sander's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to republican governors. Is there any truth to that?

He released a whole private member's bill.

http://www.healthcare-now.org/index.php?s=Bernie+Sanders+S.+1782

Scroll down and there's a link to the whole document. Mind you, some of the details have probably changed since.

Well then Vendetta, yes, Bernie's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to Republican governors. Straight from the first paragraph:

The American Health Security Act of 2013 (S. 1782) provides every American with affordable and comprehensive health care services through the establishment of a national American Health Security Program (the Program) that requires each participating state to set up and administer a state single payer health program. The Program provides universal health care coverage for the comprehensive services required under S. 1782 and incorporates Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program and TRICARE (the Department of Defense health care program), but maintains health care programs under the Veterans Affairs Administration. Private health insurance sold by for-profit companies could only exist to provide supplemental coverage.

So much for that.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Bernie's policies must mean a lot to you.

TBH I don't think this is as big of a leap as people make it out to be considering how Bernie has ran this campaign and what he's decided to focus on. Not trying to knock Bernie here but I think he has made some miscalculations in regards to what conclusions many of his supporters will draw or leaps people will make in the general election. He has made it pretty clear he believes it's way too late for establishment politics and these are the issues he has pushed above all else.

-Politicians are all bought out. You can't trust anyone who has a super pac, they won't govern with your interests

-Wallstreet, and anyone who is in any way shape or form involved with it or takes campaign donations from them is literally the source of all evil

-ACA isnt good enough. Single payer system is a necessity going forward.

-Our trade deals like NAFTA and the TPP have killed this countries economy and shipped countless jobs to countries like Mexico

-Instead of spending money on wars in the Middle East and ballooning the military budget, we should reinvest in the countries schools and hospitals

Trump supports all of these policies and has mentioned them time and time again during the republican debates. With that in mind, I don't think it's crazy to go from Bernie to Trump if you are a white male and don't give a shit about the treatment of minorities, immigrants, Muslims, etc. It even makes some circular sense seeing as how big of a deal Bernie has made his key points during his campaign. Why vote for Hillary when she has taken money from the source of all evil in Wallstreet when Trump hasn't ? Trump is the only other candidate that doesn't have a super pac.

Now obviously I think it's crazy that anyone would make that leap.. Trump nominating Supreme Court Justices would be an unspeakable disaster but there are more connections between the two than people give credit for. Trump is liberal on many issues but just used racism and xenophobia as conservative "street cred" so that attacks saying he was a dem in disguise wouldn't hold any effect. I'm hoping if Bernie doesn't win he endorses Hillary and makes it clear to supporters why it's insane to make that leap but I feel like it'll be too late for some and we'll see a lot of people go that route

 

[pigeon]

you're posting from a ps3?

I swear the more I learn about Daniel the more badass he becomes.

 

[Daniel B·]

you're posting from a ps3?

Yeah, man; my 5k/Year lifestyle couldn't accommodate a PS4 upgrade .

Actually, from my sofa, I frigin love my PS3 (with media remote) / 40" TV setup, for media consumption, including YouTube (with my PS3 Bookmarklet, custom XMB style interface, of course), and only use my ThinkPad T61 for creative endeavors, and banking.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

TBH I don't think this is as big of a leap as people make it out to be considering how Bernie has ran this campaign and what he's decided to focus on. Not trying to knock Bernie here but I think he has made some miscalculations in regards to what conclusions many of his supporters will draw or leaps people will make in the general election. He has made it pretty clear he believes it's way too late for establishment politics and these are the issues he has pushed above all else.

-Politicians are all bought out. You can't trust anyone who has a super pac, they won't govern with your interests

-Wallstreet, and anyone who is in any way shape or form involved with it or takes campaign donations from them is literally the source of all evil

-ACA isnt good enough. Single payer system is a necessity going forward.

-Our trade deals like NAFTA and the TPP have killed this countries economy and shipped countless jobs to countries like Mexico

-Instead of spending money on wars in the Middle East and ballooning the military budget, we should reinvest in the countries schools and hospitals

Trump supports all of these policies and has mentioned them time and time again during the republican debates. With that in mind, I don't think it's crazy to go from Bernie to Trump if you are a white male and don't give a shit about the treatment of minorities, immigrants, Muslims, etc. It even makes some circular sense seeing as how big of a deal Bernie has made his key points during his campaign. Why vote for Hillary when she has taken money from the source of all evil in Wallstreet when Trump hasn't ? Trump is the only other candidate that doesn't have a super pac.

Now obviously I think it's crazy that anyone would make that leap.. Trump nominating Supreme Court Justices would be an unspeakable disaster but there are more connections between the two than people give credit for. Trump is liberal on many issues but just used racism and xenophobia as conservative "street cred" so that attacks saying he was a dem in disguise wouldn't hold any effect. I'm hoping if Bernie doesn't win he endorses Hillary and makes it clear to supporters why it's insane to make that leap but I feel like it'll be too late for some and we'll see a lot of people go that route

Half of the stuff in this post is incorrect or not true about Trump. At least half.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I swear the more I learn about Daniel the more badass he becomes.

yup.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Well then Vendetta, yes, Bernie's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to Republican governors. Straight from the first paragraph:

So much for that.

Huh. I figured because of the Supreme Court ruling on the Medicaid gap that the same would apply here. I want single payer but I have to agree that I don't think I'd want it at the cost of conservative states having the option to strip healthcare options like it sounds as if they would be able to.


It may work long term if it is successful in the states that approve if but, I'm not sure.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Half of the stuff in this post is incorrect or not true about Trump. At least half.

Like what though? Trump has supported single payer, doesn't take super pacs, makes a big deal about how politicians are bought out, says we've wasted money on war and should spend on infastructure. Also both are all about protectionist economics.

I'm not saying that it IS a proper jump but based on what issues both have pushed some people who don't follow politics or don't know any better would make that leap.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Half of the stuff in this post is incorrect or not true about Trump. At least half.

Yeah, but the point is your average voter doesn't know that.

 

[Jack Remington]

Looks like Killary's emails may have uncovered something about the Clinton Foundation. Looks like she's done.

What's this now?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Yeah, man; my 5k/Year lifestyle couldn't accommodate a PS4 upgrade .

Actually, from my sofa, I frigin love my PS3 (with media remote) / 40" TV setup, for media consumption, including YouTube (with my PS3 Bookmarklet, custom XMB style interface, of course), and only use my ThinkPad T61 for creative endeavors, and banking.

Your PS3/disc golf lifestyle reminds me of this guy I had classes with at college. How much weed do you smoke? That guy smoked a ton. Like too much. Probably to make the PS3 web browser tolerable.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Like what though? Trump has supported single payer, doesn't take super pacs, makes a big deal about how politicians are bought out, says we've wasted money on war and should spend on infastructure. Also both are all about protectionist economics.

I'm not saying that it IS a proper jump but based on what issues both have pushed some people who don't follow politics or don't know any better would make that leap.

Have you read what Trump's position on healthcare is currently? How about his position about ISIL? How about how he says he's going to make the military so strong that no one will mess with us, that costs money I assume?

It amazes me how Trump has gotten people to believe whatever they want about him. He's a liberal, he's a conservative, he's everything you want him to be and more.

 

[Foffy]

TBH I don't think this is as big of a leap as people make it out to be considering how Bernie has ran this campaign and what he's decided to focus on. Not trying to knock Bernie here but I think he has made some miscalculations in regards to what conclusions many of his supporters will draw or leaps people will make in the general election. He has made it pretty clear he believes it's way too late for establishment politics and these are the issues he has pushed above all else.

-Politicians are all bought out. You can't trust anyone who has a super pac, they won't govern with your interests

-Wallstreet, and anyone who is in any way shape or form involved with it or takes campaign donations from them is literally the source of all evil

-ACA isnt good enough. Single payer system is a necessity going forward.

-Our trade deals like NAFTA and the TPP have killed this countries economy and shipped countless jobs to countries like Mexico

-Instead of spending money on wars in the Middle East and ballooning the military budget, we should reinvest in the countries schools and hospitals

Trump supports all of these policies and has mentioned them time and time again during the republican debates. With that in mind, I don't think it's crazy to go from Bernie to Trump if you are a white male and don't give a shit about the treatment of minorities, immigrants, Muslims, etc. It even makes some circular sense seeing as how big of a deal Bernie has made his key points during his campaign. Why vote for Hillary when she has taken money from the source of all evil in Wallstreet when Trump hasn't ? Trump is the only other candidate that doesn't have a super pac.

Now obviously I think it's crazy that anyone would make that leap.. Trump nominating Supreme Court Justices would be an unspeakable disaster but there are more connections between the two than people give credit for. Trump is liberal on many issues but just used racism and xenophobia as conservative "street cred" so that attacks saying he was a dem in disguise wouldn't hold any effect. I'm hoping if Bernie doesn't win he endorses Hillary and makes it clear to supporters why it's insane to make that leap but I feel like it'll be too late for some and we'll see a lot of people go that route

Amongst all of the points you make, this is perhaps the most definitive one. The rest can have holes in them, but that one right there need to be shot at the moon and swapped at Democrats, who, at least publicly, are abandoning that message.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Well then Vendetta, yes, Bernie's healthcare plan would hand the power to implement it over to Republican governors. Straight from the first paragraph:

So much for that.

Reading the rest of the bill helps.

 

[Cybit]

Have you read what Trump's position on healthcare is currently? How about his position about ISIL? How about how he says he's going to make the military so strong that no one will mess with us, that costs money I assume?

It amazes me how Trump has gotten people to believe whatever they want about him. He's a liberal, he's a conservative, he's everything you want him to be and more.

I think that's the genius of how his campaign has been run so far. He's been staying super quiet (relative to the bombast he's had on gathering attention) on many policies, letting people fill in their personal beliefs into that void.

That said; he's pretty much done if he doesn't win NH IMO. His entire position is that he's the "winner"; any blows to that and I think the whole thing comes crumbling down.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I think Freakonomics did a really good piece on the question of open borders and whether migration is a basic human right:

http://freakonomics.com/2015/12/17/...human-right-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/

They touch on the economics of it primarily (surprise) but they also talk about the fundamental issues that having open borders would and wouldn't create. I think the fundamental issue is that if you argue that migration is a inalienable right without restriction it starts bumping up against the very concept of personal and communal property.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Amongst all of the points you make, this is perhaps the most definitive one. The rest can have holes in them, but that one right there need to be shot at the moon and swapped at Democrats, who, at least publicly, are abandoning that message.

Why? France has a hybrid system and arguably the best health care in the world.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I think that's the genius of how his campaign has been run so far. He's been staying super quiet (relative to the bombast he's had on gathering attention) on many policies, letting people fill in their personal beliefs into that void.

That said; he's pretty much done if he doesn't win NH IMO. His entire position is that he's the "winner"; any blows to that and I think the whole thing comes crumbling down.

Except that he really hasn't. He offers his opinion on damn near everything but for some reason people choose to believe an obscure quote from 1999 about single payer healthcare over hundreds of statements today about his position. Or when he keeps saying I was right about Iraq in 2004 but then offers equally hawkish and stupid ideas about what to do now.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Edit- nvm misread

 

[Black Mamba]

It's 2016 and Trump is still the GOP frontrunner. What universe have we stumble into, people???

The whole GOP nomination process is kind of hilarious, really. The field is still immensely crowded. Some of you ask why the field doesn't thin out but there's a general reason for that. Because anything is still possible!

Let's run through this for a second:

A. The I Got Nothing Better To Do With My Time Group:

1. Trump - He's running because of his ego, he's cooky, and well he's probably a bit bored. He's not going anywhere until it is painfully obvious he's going to lose.

2. Ben Carson - He wants to make more money. He also probably got a bit of ego built up thinking he had a bit of a shot when everyone was praising him because he was a black doctor that wasn't a liberal. He's actually very likely to leave this race soon if he performs poorly and has nothing left to do.

3. Carly Fiorina - Honestly, I have no idea why she's running at all. She got clobbered in her only previous race. She's not highly regarded in politics or her own industry. Maybe she's just bored having been done doing anything significant yet still being pretty young. I have no idea how long she'll stay in because I don't even know why she's in now...pretty much the only candidate I can say this of.

B. The My Political Career Is Over Anyway Group:

1. Huckabee and Santorum - I'll just combine them. They're done as politicians, for the most part. They have no reason not to run. They'll stay in it until they run out of money and/or become insignificant once the primaries begin. Then they'll become commentators and lobbyists or have a show.

2. Jim Gilmore - pretty sure he's just drunk.

C. The Politicians With A Future Group

1. Rand Paul - Honestly, he jumped the gun. He thought he could ride his dad's coattails to a legit run but it's too soon. He got caught up in the race and I'm pretty sure he's only not left yet because he wants to try to make sure Trump loses. Which is funny because Graham got in the race to make sure Rand lost and Graham succeeded. He'll leave when his impact is insignificant post primaries.

2. Marco Rubio - He got in the race to raise his profile and possibly be the VP candidate. I don't think for one second he got in it to win it and is a bit surprised to find himself the establishment pick and isn't ready. He probably wants to be a governor or something but can't leave so long as he has a real chance.

3. Ted Cruz - He's basically Eli Sunday from There Will Be Blood (Plainview would be Trump in this scenario, of course...but Trump isn't as smart as him in the least...). He's the anti-establishment politician pick. He's in it for himself and no one else. He has no reason to ever leave since he'll have money and he's an asshole. Not sure what would be more satisfying for me, Cruz being crushed by Hillary or losing the nom because his own base doesn't believe he's American.

The Nothing Better To Do Politicians Group:

1. Chris Christie - He's done in New Jersey, he'll never be Senator. He might as well run. He can eventually be part of any administration, as well. But there's no bargaining chip the RNC can use to get him out because the establishment pick is up in the air and if Trump or Cruz do win, they aren't going to give Christie anything.

2. Kasich - Pretty sure he wanted to be the VP for the Establishment candidate. He'll stay in just long enough to know he has no shot early and will leave. Unless he does well, of course. His career is likely over unless part of an administration again, just like Christie

The My Political Career Is Over and I Have Nothing Better To Do And I Swear I'm The Smart One Group:

1. Jeb! - He has a lot of money, nothing left in his career...he's going nowhere as long as he has a shot. What else is there for him to do. He can't be bargained with as he in no way would accept a smaller position. Gotta live up to the legacy!


Anyway, the Establishment picks (rubio, jeb!, christie, kasich) have no reason to leave as they're sort of stuck in a prisoner's dilemma. It makes sense for all of them to leave to get a better overall outcome but there's no incentive for any of them to leave until some votes are at least counted. And the RNC can't bargain with them because they have no leverage. Then there's other candidates that have nothing better to do (carson, fiorina, huckabee, santorum) and can't be bargained with.

Crazy times!

 

[Cybit]

Except that he really hasn't. He offers his opinion on damn near everything but for some reason people choose to believe an obscure quote from 1999 about single payer healthcare over hundreds of statements today about his position. Or when he keeps saying I was right about Iraq in 2004 but then offers equally hawkish and stupid ideas about what to do now.

But you're even seeing here that most people aren't hearing those statements / choosing to ignore them. He's flooding the media so hardcore that even many of his supporters don't know his stances on specific policy. He talks in vague generalities "I'm going to make the military so strong no one will mess with us" but then doesn't ever actually say "I'm going to increase military spending by X%". He's using result based rhetoric (we will make america great again. we will be strong. etc etc) rather than pushing for specific policies - and I think that's because of the last 8 years of political gridlock.

 

[vicissitudes]

If someone asks what kind of topping would be good on a hot dog, DanielB-'s gonna explain why Bernie Sanders is their ideal candidate. And then repost it in here.

The OP of the thread in question does sound like a centrist Democrat who hasn't realized that the "government spending is out of control!" meme he's been fed all along is a lie. He took the predictit test and sure enough Hillary and Bernie were his tops.

Oh, and anyone who is willing at this stage to vote for Trump can go directly to racist, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 KKK spacebux. There's no excuse whatsoever.

Either you do not know the definition of the word "racist" or you are ignorant of Trump's positions. Let me help you:

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist
1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.


Most accusations of Trump's supposed racism comes from two sources:

1. His proposed temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States.

The problem with this is, Islam is not a race. Not only that, but he's not even talking about all Muslims, only those entering the country. Trump has no problem with the millions of Muslims in America today: I love the Muslims. I think they're great people.

2. His stance on illegal immigration.

Again, Trump makes no claim that any race is superior or inferior to the Latino race. He doesn't even mention race. He talks about people coming in from Mexico (which is a country, not a race), illegally, and many are criminals or whatnot. Now, you can argue about the definition of "many", but consider that millions come here illegally, even if 99% of them do not commit crimes, that's still thousands of illegal immigrants who are criminals. I would certainly consider that to be "many". But that issue aside, we are talking about illegal immigration, by people from a certain country. It's not about race. Notice how Trump has no problems with Latinos in America legally, or Latinos immigrating legally from South America, etc. Trump: I have thousands of Hispanics working for me. I love the people.

You can say Trump is using negative rhetoric. You can say Trump is harsh on immigration and enforcing the laws. You can say Trump's policies target certain groups of people. (which all politicians are guilty of; see Bernie targeting the wealthy) But to say Trump is a racist is completely unfounded and outright slander. It's a sad commentary on America today that we take offense at the slightest things and label it racism. This is why we need real change in Washington and why we cannot afford another 4 years of politics as usual.

 

[PBY]

Either you do not know the definition of the word "racist" or you are ignorant of Trump's positions. Let me help you:

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist
1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.


Most accusations of Trump's supposed racism comes from two sources:

1. His proposed temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States.

The problem with this is, Islam is not a race. Not only that, but he's not even talking about all Muslims, only those entering the country. Trump has no problem with the millions of Muslims in America today: I love the Muslims. I think they're great people.

2. His stance on illegal immigration.

Again, Trump makes no claim that any race is superior or inferior to the Latino race. He doesn't even mention race. He talks about people coming in from Mexico (which is a country, not a race), illegally, and many are criminals or whatnot. Now, you can argue about the definition of "many", but consider that millions come here illegally, even if 99% of them do not commit crimes, that's still thousands of illegal immigrants who are criminals. I would certainly consider that to be "many". But that issue aside, we are talking about illegal immigration, by people from a certain country. It's not about race. Notice how Trump has no problems with Latinos in America legally, or Latinos immigrating legally from South America, etc. Trump: I have thousands of Hispanics working for me. I love the people.

You can say Trump is using negative rhetoric. You can say Trump is harsh on immigration and enforcing the laws. You can say Trump's policies target certain groups of people. (which all politicians are guilty of; see Bernie targeting the wealthy) But to say Trump is a racist is completely unfounded and outright slander. It's a sad commentary on America today that we take offense at the slightest things and label it racism. This is why we need real change in Washington and why we cannot afford another 4 years of politics as usual.

I know what you're doing here, but there is STRONG spirit vs letter of the law stuff happening here. I could address your points, but I think the overall point is just a "bruh, come on"