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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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Just read this:



http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/rand-paul-assures-evangelicals-that-he-d

The fuck is the difference between a "libertarian" and "libertarian Republican"?

Nothing.

He also said he's going to have the Constitution in one hand and the Bill of Rights in another.

I've always said he's the resident dunce. Then again, there are far bigger dunces around D.C. than him these days, so I dunno.

Honestly, Rand is just another libertarian in the mold of his father who is more willing to play the game aka lie to hide how libertarian he is.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Nothing.

He also said he's going to have the Constitution in one hand and the Bill of Rights in another.

I've always said he's the resident dunce. Then again, there are far bigger dunces around D.C. than him these days, so I dunno.

Honestly, Rand is just another libertarian in the mold of his father who is more willing to play the game aka lie to hide how libertarian he is.

Or he's lying about being libertarian to garner support, which I find far more likely given his flip flopping and general views on issues. I mean shit, he makes Mitt Romney look principled.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Offered without further comment, here are Eric Cantor and Kathleen Sebelius on the potential Republican responses to a government loss in King:

Eric Cantor said:
Former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said Tuesday the Republican Party could have its first real chance to repeal ObamaCare mandates this year.

Cantor said the GOP will have strong bargaining power on healthcare reform if ObamaCare loses in the Supreme Court. That could force the administration to make a major compromise.

“The two sides are going to have to work with one another if there’s going to be some resolution here,” Cantor said in a Washington panel hosted by New York University. “Republicans are not going to accept a mandate.”

Cantor shared a stage with former Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who immediately argued that allowing healthcare reform was not possible without requiring broader participation in the marketplace.

“If you get rid of pre-existing conditions, you need a mandate,” Sebelius shot back.

Eliminating the individual and employer mandates have been an increasingly big priority for Republicans in this year’s GOP-controlled Congress. But Sebelius argued that popular policy ideas — such as protecting people with pre-existing conditions — aren’t possible without the mandates.

“Unless you want a single-payer plan, if you want private insurance industry to survive, you have to tie that to a balanced risk pool,” she said.

An article by Yale law professor Stephen Carter discusses some potential election reforms meant to combat voter ignorance:

Stephen Carter said:
My column last week criticizing President Barack Obama’s suggestion that the U.S. consider mandatory voting has provoked a considerable response. I proposed that, if we really think raising voter turnout is important, we abandon coercion and offer a cash incentive instead.

Among the more intriguing reactions was a Washington Post op-ed article by the always thoughtful Ilya Somin of George Mason University. Somin agrees with me that paying people is better than forcing them, but worries -- as many do -- about what will happen if low-information voters show up just to get the money: “The end result would be an even more ignorant electorate than we have now, and party platforms and government policies that cater to that ignorance.”

...

The same instinct has led to efforts to turn low-information voters into high-information voters. In their book “Deliberation Day,” the legal scholar Bruce Ackerman and the political scientist James Fishkin propose a two-day national holiday before the election, to enable the citizenry to deliberate about the issues and candidates. There would be small groups for conversation, and larger audiences to hear the candidates respond to questions the groups raised. No one would be forced to participate, but those who did would receive cash. The authors identify as the signal problem in electoral politics that “a majority of voters are woefully ignorant and readily manipulated.” Deliberation Day, in their telling, would lead to a more informed citizenry, with the result that “the candidates, the media, the activists, the interest groups, the spin doctors, the advertisers, the pollsters, the fund raisers, the lobbyists, and the political parties ... would have no choice but to adapt to a more attentive and informed public.”

In a similar vein, Somin points to the proposal by economist Bryan Caplan, author of “The Myth of the Rational Voter,” for a Voter Achievement Test, offered free to any citizen who wants to take it. The higher a voter’s score, the higher the cash reward: “The Voter Achievement Test doesn’t just give citizens a clear incentive to actually master the material by whatever means they find effective -- elective classes, free reading, Internet, discussion, etc. It also gives them a clear incentive to maintain their mastery of the material, because they can retake the test for cash prizes every single year.”

Interesting ideas, but purely academic. I don't think reforming elections to increase turnout or voter knowledge will be a priority for any national party in the foreseeable future.

The National Constitution Center has a post about beer-loving presidents:

What does Barack Obama have in common with George Washington, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson? All four presidents will go down in history as loving their beer, as well as their country.

The current president released the two recipes for the White House’s top-secret beer brews in 2012, after a citizen filed a Freedom of Information Act request.

Obama has been serving its own home brew since he took office in 2009 and the White House used honey from beehives managed by Michelle Obama on the South Lawn.

That would definitely be approved by George Washington, who had a well-known love for porter, which he kept in strong supply at Mount Vernon.

Historians have also unearthed one of Washington’s personal home brew recipes. The New York Public Library has his 1757 recipe for small beer (a type of light ale like a near beer) in Washington’s own handwriting.

Thomas Jefferson got into making beer in a big way after he left the White House in 1809. Jefferson took beer making at Monticello seriously. By 1814, he had his own personal brew house.

But James Madison takes the title of the patron of home brewing among the Founding Fathers. Madison wanted to form a national beer brewery in 1809 and appoint a Secretary of Beer to the presidential cabinet. Congress didn’t agree with the plan.

...

[Franklin] Roosevelt signed the laws that ended Prohibition in 1933. . . . But it took another president, Jimmy Carter, along with Congress, to make home brewing legal again in 1979. Carter wasn’t a big drinker, but his brother, Billy, had his own line of beer.

That little factoid about Carter brings to mind the remarkable fact that modern regulation of alcoholic beverages continues to be driven, in part, by fear of the mob. For instance, here's a bizarre little narrative included as part of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code:

Tex. Alco. Bev. Code s 6.03 said:
(b) Between 1920 and 1933, the distribution and consumption of alcoholic beverages was prohibited in the United States. While the idealistic motives behind Prohibition were noble, a law enforcement nightmare ensued. Otherwise law-abiding citizens routinely violated the law by buying and consuming alcoholic beverages. The demand for the illegal products created an opportunity for criminal elements to develop a national network for the supply and distribution of alcoholic beverages to the populace. Massive criminal empires were built on illicit profits from these unlawful activities and organized crime openly flourished in Chicago, New York, New Orleans, and other cities.

(c) During Prohibition, the illegal enterprises used their national wholesale distribution networks to exert control over their customers. A common operating procedure was to sell alcoholic beverages to a speakeasy on liberal terms to ensnarl the owner in a web of debt and control with the aim of forcing the owner to engage in other illegal business enterprises on the premises including gambling, prostitution, and the distribution of illegal drugs.

(d) In 1935, when the sale of alcoholic beverages was legalized in this state following the adoption of the Twenty-first Amendment to the United States Constitution, the state was faced with building an entire framework for the distribution of alcoholic beverage products. An important concern was that since criminals owned and controlled the existing illegal alcoholic beverage distribution system, criminals would attempt to own and control the newly legalized industry. In an effort to prevent this situation, comprehensive laws were adopted to ensure that an alcoholic beverage permit or license could be issued only to citizens of the state who had lived in this state for at least three years, thus, long enough to be known by their community and neighbors.

(e) Under the newly designed regulatory scheme, permits and licenses issued by the state did not grant the holder a right. Rather, the holder was granted a privilege that could be challenged at both the county and the state level if the character or qualifications of the applicant were suspect. Finally, strict cash and credit laws were adopted to prevent parties in the wholesale distribution system from controlling their retail customers through the leveraging of debt to accomplish other illicit gain.

(f) The alcoholic beverage laws adopted by the legislature in the 1930s to free the industry from the influence of organized crime have been successful in this state. The alcoholic beverage industry in this state is not dominated by organized crime. However, the legislature does find that organized crime continues to be a threat that should never be allowed to establish itself in the alcoholic beverage industry in this state.

EDIT:

Just read this:

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/rand-paul-assures-evangelicals-that-he-d

The fuck is the difference between a "libertarian" and "libertarian Republican"?

I assume "libertarian" should have been rendered with a capital "L." In other words, he's a libertarian-leaning Republican, not a member of the Libertarian Party. So, in general, his views would be better reflected by the Republican Party platform than the Libertarian Party platform. (That may or may not be true, but I take that to be his meaning.)

SECOND EDIT: Oh, and, "LOLOLOLOL REASON DOT COM? LOLOLOLOL"
 
quite a few years ago I heard him go off about the civil rights act and how it should be a choice. That's when I knew he was a true libertarian and not a republican.

His father is a nutter, not seeing why he would fall far from that tree. I think he's just using the GOP in a more efficient way that Ron because he doesn't care about principles, just power (Ron, for all his nuttiness, was moreso in it for ideals).

edit: Madison proposed a secretary of beer!? WHOA WHOA WHOA!

Fuck off, 11th Congress. Our country could have been so glorious but you rejected his idea.

Worst. Congress. Ever.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
I think he's just using the GOP in a more efficient way that Ron because he doesn't care about principles, just power

I doubt it's quite that crass. To the extent the Libertarians better reflect his true views than the Republicans, I'd guess he simply recognizes the tradeoff between political purity and electability. That he'd rather see a Libertarian/Republican compromise implemented as government policy than have Libertarian policies languish doesn't mean he cares about power more than principle.
 

Chichikov

Member
Not sure how I missed that, but LOL at the fact that someone filed a FOIA request for the white house beer recipe.
That's awesome.

ah9pEYj.jpg
 
I don't think Rand Paul is really a libertarian his just some views just happens to align with that of libertarians; and being opportunist about that to make him look different and good to a different base .

He is like those small government conservatives with some libertarian leanings and a bit anti-liberal/progressive ( I think this makes up a lot of the 'libertarians' ) . For gay marriage he may say that it should be up to the states; but don't want federal government inference to legalize nationwide; but if those states allow those 'religious freedom bills' he will support it and if Congress makes a bill that does the same thing he'll probably sign it.

While a lot of people including me wants the federal government(judicial branch in this case) to legalize it nationwide and make sure LBGT peoples don't get discriminated.

Although I don't even know if he really thinks to what he says he flip flops around a lot, so to me I don't think really cares about some issues like gay marriage, but say whatever that benefits him even if it contradicts what his views was previously since he is trying to appeal different, someone that isn't like a politician, and have a cross party appeal. That will ultimately do him in in the end as it would make him a easy target for both sides Democrats and other Republicans, and as shown in history if people have the choice of a lite and the really thing, people will choose the real thing. I think his inconsistent views will cause some his supporters go to different candidates and the people that normally vote Democratic to stay voting Dems because that Democratic candidate will have economic and social liberal or moderate views that already appeals to people that vote for Dems .
 
I doubt it's quite that crass. To the extent the Libertarians better reflect his true views than the Republicans, I'd guess he simply recognizes the tradeoff between political purity and electability. That he'd rather see a Libertarian/Republican compromise implemented as government policy than have Libertarian policies languish doesn't mean he cares about power more than principle.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that he flip-flops solely to try to get enough voters on his side.

I think for him, it's all about power and nothing else. This is a personal belief of mine. Same I have of Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. And most people in D.C. Just pointing out the difference there in relation to his father.
 
The National Constitution Center has a post about beer-loving presidents:"

That mention of the "Secretary of Beer" got me wondering if it was actually true, and after checking with his estate I'm not so sure now.

Recently, a particularly hard-to-shake rumor resulted in a flood of research queries to the Montpelier Curatorial Department. According to several online sources, President James Madison proposed a national brewery and the cabinet position of Secretary of Beer. Despite the persistence of the story, no evidence, documentary or otherwise, can support these claims. The story seems to have grown from a misinterpretation of Joseph Coppinger’s 1810 proposal to create a national brewery. In a December 16 letter to the president, Coppinger requested Madison’s assistance to establish a brewing company in Washington as “‘a National object’ in order to improve the quality of malt liquors and to ‘counteract the baneful influence of ardent spirits on the health and Morals of our fellow Citizens."[2]

No response from Madison survives, nor do any documents linking such a cabinet position to his presidency. Given his views of limited executive powers, it seems unlikely that Madison would have endorsed a governmental brewing or distillation operation. If anything, Madison scholars believe he was probably more interested in Coppinger’s scientific methods for production.

(I'm legitimately shocked that this is a post I actually typed.)
 

KingK

Member
I doubt it's quite that crass. To the extent the Libertarians better reflect his true views than the Republicans, I'd guess he simply recognizes the tradeoff between political purity and electability. That he'd rather see a Libertarian/Republican compromise implemented as government policy than have Libertarian policies languish doesn't mean he cares about power more than principle.
I'd have to agree and add that the same could probably be said of Obama, as i tend to think he's personally more liberal than he is politically.

But like Mamba just said, this is all just biased personal belief. We can't actualy read minds and see his motives.
 

Ecotic

Member
This libertarian leanings = libertarian thing these days is really bothering me. Real libertarians are completely immobile in their views. They throw out heretics, not water themselves down to broaden their appeal. Too many people think they're a libertarian without knowing how absolutely rigid the ideology is. I'm surprised actual libertarians aren't coming out and saying Rand Paul is a faker, or maybe they are but can't get any media attention. Or maybe I'm just sensitive because I personally know some die-hard libertarians and their limited vocabulary: "Nope", "Not our concern", "No constitutional authority".

Fakers are easy to spot, when you ask them a question you can see they're entertaining the idea, they're doing a cost-benefit analysis. A real libertarian knows the answer immediately, it's almost a sickness, like their brain can't make sense of the world without morally pure libertarian rules. Everything's right or wrong.

Years ago I saw perhaps the most hilarious political interview ever. I wish I could find it. Ron Paul was asked if a Declaration of War against Iran or Syria came to Congress (if they blatantly attacked us for some reason), would he vote for it or against it. It went something like this.

TV anchor: "Congressman Paul, if that Declaration of War came to a vote, would you vote for it?"

Paul: "Well only Congress has the authority to declare war, so if Congress votes to authorize it, it would be Constitutional."

TV anchor: "Yes, but would you vote for it?"

Paul: "... Only Congress has the authority to declare war, not the President through open-ended authorizations."

TV anchor: "But I'm asking if such a legal Declaration of War came to a vote against that country, would you vote for it?"

Paul: "... ... I don't under... ... Only Congress has the authority to declare war."

In that moment, you could literally see the aneurysm happening. He was being asked to make an actual judgment call, and he couldn't find the answer as he mentally searched his libertarian rulebook.
 
What ever happened to Angry Fork?

If memory serves, last he popped he was mentioning how democrats would get royally screwed if they kept taking their electorate for granted and trying to elect republican-lites, instead of left people.

Lots of "but pragmatism" answers.

Then the 2014 elections happened.

Don't think he popped again.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
It's mind-boggling to me that you would post a quote in this thread and then say "you don't need to know" where it's from. How else are we supposed to know the context of the comment?

I originally thought you didn't post your sources because you were embarrassed that they were always Politico, but now I just don't even know.

That is very interesting. I have actually done that. Well next time I will post the source.
 

benjipwns

Banned
And the mafia wasn't forcing anyone to pay protection money either, yet the state was offended about their business model.

Well I havent been here long but im sure the others can feel you in on this but apparently the reason Republican GAF except for Benji and Metamorphus dont post here is that they either have been banned or refuse to post/debate because of their postage igniting conspiracy theories etc.
Republican-GAF starring a voluntaryist/market anarchist who complains about the corporate state protecting large corporations. And opposes like 90% of the GOP platform.

Also that tl;dr legal guy.

Part of the problem is that moderate conservatives are badly marginalized within their own party (see Jon Huntsman)
Jon Huntsman's only disagreement with the base of his party is/was on if climate change is a policy issue. And later, gay marriage.

So I don't have to write it out again:
The Jon Hunstman who signed tons of bills against abortion and wants a "Right To Life" Amendment and supports the death penalty and wants even greater laws against drugs and school vouchers and term limits for Congress and to roll back current gun control laws and wants to repeal ObamaCare and cut taxes extensively dropping the corporate and top rate to 25% and opposes any energy subsides even to green energy. That Jon Huntsman?

Or is his gay marriage support and mild support of immigration enough?
 

benjipwns

Banned
Meanwhile in well, we gotta write something about Hillary news:

Democrats Have an Identity-Politics Problem
No, the main reason why Clinton is a near-lock for the nomination is that Democrats have become the party of identity. They're now dependent on a coalition that relies on exciting less-reliable voters with nontraditional candidates. President Obama proved he could turn out African-American, Hispanic, and young voters to his side in 2012 even as they faced particularly rough economic hardships during a weak recovery. As the first female major-party nominee for president, Clinton hopes to win decisive margins with women voters and is planning to run on that historic message—in sharp contrast to her campaign's argument playing down that uniqueness in 2008.

It's part of why freshman Sen. Elizabeth Warren inspires excitement from the party's grassroots, but former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley, whose progressive record in office set liberal benchmarks, isn't even polling at 1 percent nationally. It's why Sherrod Brown, a populist white male senator from a must-win battleground state is an afterthought in the presidential sweepstakes. It's why Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, a runner-up to be Obama's running mate in 2008, quickly jumped on the Clinton bandwagon instead of pursuing any national ambitions. On Bernstein's list of 16 possible challengers, 15 are white and nine are white males. That makes many of them untenable standard-bearers in the modern Democratic Party.

Just look at the party's (few) competitive Senate primaries of recent vintage for an illustration of this dynamic. New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker, whose tenure as Newark mayor drew considerable scrutiny and occasional mockery, coasted to victory in a 2013 special election primary against Rep. Frank Pallone, a respected 25-year veteran of the House who had been angling for a promotion for many years. With Democrats lacking a single African-American senator at the time, Booker's election to the Senate was fait accompli.

The 2014 Hawaii primary between appointed Sen. Brian Schatz and then-Rep. Colleen Hanabusa hinged on issues of ethnic identity, pitting a white candidate against one who is Japanese-American (and was backed by the widow of the late longtime Sen. Daniel Inouye). Schatz, despite holding an advantage as the incumbent, only eked out a victory by 1,782 votes despite a lockstep liberal record and support from national liberal groups. (Asian-Americans comprise a 38 percent plurality of Hawaii residents; whites make up 27 percent.)

This year, the Democratic primary royale will be taking place in Maryland, where Rep. Chris Van Hollen, who is white, is pitted against Rep. Donna Edwards, who is African-American. Both are reliable progressives, but Van Hollen has held more prominent leadership positions. She has been playing up their differences on several issues—entitlement reform, most significantly—but the real contrast for voters will be on race. In a state where nearly half of the Democratic primary electorate is African-American, Edwards is betting she'll have a strong floor of support, regardless of what happens in the campaign.

In the not-too-distant past, Van Hollen's credentials as a former Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chairman, ranking Democrat on the Budget Committee, and on the fast-track within House leadership would make him a solid favorite for the nomination. But Edwards, who was just elected in 2008 and defeated a Democratic incumbent to do so, is betting on the power of identity to overcome her lack of experience. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid's early endorsement of Van Hollen will mean little compared with the support Edwards could rack up in African-American communities from Baltimore to Prince George's County. That, combined with support from the Democratic powerhouse EMILY's List, which backs and funds female Democratic candidates, make her a formidable challenger.

Meanwhile, in Nevada, Reid has been working to clear the Democratic field for a Hispanic up-and-comer, former Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto, as his chosen successor. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is reportedly already rallying behind her campaign, even though Rep. Dina Titus has indicated she's very interested in running as well. It's a no-brainer of a move, given how important the state's growing Hispanic vote has become. But it also underscores how important it is to run a familiar face to help turn out and rally Hispanic voters to the polls next November.

...

One of the paradoxes of today's Democratic Party is that, despite the increasing importance of a diversified voting coalition, the party is drastically underrepresented by talented nonwhite politicians in its congressional, gubernatorial, and statewide ranks. The great irony of Obama's presidency is that by playing to his progressive base so much, Obama oversaw the collapse of his party at the local level—and it's depriving Democrats of compelling, viable presidential recruits who reflect the changed nature of the party for 2016 and beyond.

Into that void enters Hillary Clinton. By running against Obama in 2008, she knows firsthand how powerful the appeal of personal identity is. As dramatic as the nomination fight was, the results strongly correlated with the demographic makeup of the individual states. This time, she's planning to take a page from his playbook in emphasizing her historic position as the first female major-party nominee, if she wins the Democratic nomination. That alone is enough to dissuade other qualified challengers from taking her on.

But while nominating a diverse slate of candidates is a laudable goal, there's great risk when a party becomes obsessed with identity over issues. It fuels racial polarization, where one's party label or positions on issues becomes synonymous with race or ethnicity. There's less coherent connection among their constituents' interests—beyond gender or the color of one's skin. If Clinton runs a biography-focused campaign, it will require her to be more open and authentic—traits she has never demonstrated in her long career in public life.

For all the GOP's recent internal struggles, the dividing lines within the party have primarily been over policy: tea-partiers against the establishment, Chamber of Commerce rank-and-file versus social conservatives, hawks against Paulites. Among Democrats, the dividing lines are much more personal. If Clinton wins a third straight Democratic presidential term, it will reaffirm the power of identity in American politics. But if she loses, Democrats will find themselves in a messy identity crisis, without many leaders left to turn to.

IS HILLARY CLINTON ANY GOOD AT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?
Standing in front of a tapestry replica of Picasso’s Guernica, she was testy, brittle, and, above all, unpersuasive — failing to demonstrate the most elementary political skills, much less those learned at Toastmasters or Dale Carnegie. “She read her prepared remarks like a high-school student,” marvels Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster who’s been a close observer of Clinton for more than two decades. “She looked down at her notes, then she looked up to the left, down at her notes, then up to the right. Almost the entire time, she avoided making eye contact with anyone.” A prominent Democratic operative is still horrified by the spectacle. “She came off as defensive and artificially put-off,” he says. Another Democratic operative says, “I’m a huge Hillary Clinton fan. I hope desperately she’s the next president of the United States, because I think she’d be a great president. But after that press conference, I do have major concerns about her ability as a campaigner and to get elected.”

The performance made a host of other recent Clinton missteps — seemingly minor at the time — suddenly loom larger in the minds of anxious Democrats. There was her strangely vapid Foggy Bottom memoir, Hard Choices, which racked up middling sales, and her obvious rust in the interviews she did to promote it. There was her continued buck-raking on the paid-speaking circuit, which seemed tone-deaf, if not downright greedy, for someone about to embark on a presidential campaign. And there was her hard-to-figure delay in assembling a staff for the campaign, so that, when news of the hidden emails broke, she had no infrastructure to defend her and instead had to rely on a hodgepodge of veteran freelancers like James Carville and Lanny Davis, whose reappearance made the latest Clinton scandal feel exhaustingly familiar. Democrats may be constitutionally prone to hysteria, but even so, the whiplash of these few weeks has been notable. Now, days before Clinton’s official announcement that she is, once again, in it to win it, some in her party are on edge.

Pat Buchanan, the venerable Republican operative who advised Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, likes to assess politicians as “political athletes.” Putting aside ideologies, policy preferences, even personalities, how do they perform on the political playing field? “It’s charisma, charm, savvy,” he says. “Being a political athlete is having an extra dimension — it’s not learned; you’re born with it.” In Buchanan’s long career, the greatest political athletes he’s encountered have been John F. Kennedy, Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama. “They’re naturals: Roy Hobbs or Mickey Mantle,” he says. Hillary, in Buchanan’s view, is the furthest thing from a natural: “She’s like Pete Rose, who has to grind out every hit.”

The grind can be obvious watching Clinton on the campaign trail. In her two successful Senate races and her unsuccessful presidential run in 2008, she often struggled to exhibit the basic qualities required of politicians. “Let’s remember who she’s beaten in her career: Rick Lazio and John Spencer,” says a Democratic consultant who has worked for and against Hillary. “The only time she’s run against anyone decent, she’s lost.” Where most pols project warmth, she often runs cold. Her speeches can be leaden and forced. She tightens up in unscripted moments.

Above all, she bristles at what the public and the press now want most from politicians: authenticity. As she said in a press-conference soliloquy during her 2000 Senate campaign, “ ‘Who are you?’ and all of that. I don’t know if that is the right question. Even people you think you know extremely well, do you know their entire personality? Do they, at every point you’re with them, reveal totally who they are? Of course not. We now expect people in the public arena to somehow do that. I don’t understand the need behind that.”

“She’s a schemer and a planner and a plodder,” says the GOP consultant Rick Wilson, who worked for Rudy Giuliani during his aborted 2000 Senate campaign against Clinton. “You need people like that in politics, but most of the time they end up as campaign strategists, not candidates.” Buchanan is more blunt: “She reminds me of Nixon.”

In 1998, when Clinton was first thinking about running for the Senate, she sought the advice of her and her husband’s longtime adviser Harold Ickes. According to Jeff Gerth and Don Van Natta Jr.’s Her Way, the pair were deep into their meeting — having pored over a map of New York and discussed the myriad local issues she would have to grasp — when a thought suddenly occurred to Ickes. “I don’t even know if you’d be a good candidate, Hillary,” he told her. Nearly two decades later, we still don’t know.
 

dabig2

Member
That I wouldn't know, but his views on US monetary policy in here were generally well researched.

Didn't he go all in defend the Venezuelan economic system? I wonder if he left so he can rethink his worldview or something. Some of the stuff he said were pretty nuts.

Nah, he was good at backing up his economic views. He got skewered in some other thread for who knows what anymore.

I'm fairly sure it was the Ukraine/Russia thread that got him to pack up. He was, let's say, not too sympathetic to the new westernized Ukrainian government, and argued a lot against the posters there that were condemning Russia for interference.
 

Teggy

Member
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that he flip-flops solely to try to get enough voters on his side.

I think for him, it's all about power and nothing else. This is a personal belief of mine. Same I have of Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. And most people in D.C. Just pointing out the difference there in relation to his father.

Someone else can dig up the post ;) but I know there was a chart posted that showed both Pauls say a lot of conservative things but then actually vote in the completely opposite way.
 
Not gonna name names, but there have been a few liberal leaning posters who don't post in here anymore because they got called out for posting B.S. without data to back it up. One of the reasons I like this thread. The expectations for backing up your factual arguments is much higher here than typical political news threads in the OT.

Actually, one reason people suddenly stop posting here is because they are banned. Even if they come back, it just tempers the will for discussion.

I still post the occasional article here, but after my ban I lost all taste for debate. Just isn't worth risking another perm.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I'm surprised actual libertarians aren't coming out and saying Rand Paul is a faker, or maybe they are but can't get any media attention
It's absolutely the latter. When has the media ever covered what "actual libertarians" say lol, Gary Johnson could barely get interviews and he was The Party's Presidential candidate.

Robert Sarvis is the only Libertarian to get actual near comparable media coverage in the last 30 years probably. And they still wouldn't let him in the debates.

The Rand Paul debate has consumed libertarian debate since his election, and Ron Paul didn't escape it either. Robert Sarvis and Gary Johnson both got the treatment too and they were The Party's nominees lol.

reason is entirely in the camp of "Rand Paul is close enough that supporting him, like his father, is as good as we'll get" whereas other places hold him to their impossible standard.

These are just from the last few days:
Is Rand Paul Becoming Less "Libertarian-ish?" Seems So, But He's Still the Most Interesting GOP Candidate for President. By a Long Shot.
A Reason Rand Paul Reader
Highlights from a libertarian magazine's coverage of the most libertarian Republican running for president in 2016

Keep Rand Paul Weird
Will the libertarian-leaning presidential candidate shed the differences that make him interesting?

Is Rand Paul's Drug Policy Libertarian?
No, but he leans further in that direction than any other Republican senator or major-party presidential candidate.

Dems on Rand Paul: He's Bizarre. Also, He's Just Like All the Others.
Top 5 Pointless Congressional Hearings on Baseball


I'm fairly sure it was the Ukraine/Russia thread that got him to pack up. He was, let's say, not too sympathetic to the new westernized Ukrainian government, and argued a lot against the posters there that were condemning Russia for interference.
One of his final statements after coming back from his ban was that he was fed up with the double standards in moderation in that what he viewed as propagandist posters were not only allowed to post freely but countering their propaganda resulted in bans. And that he wasn't interested in such an echo chamber, especially one that was defending the fascist neo-liberal imperialist propaganda.

I may have editorialized on the last sentence.
 
Fun game time!

Where does this wonderful piece of logic come from? A liberal utopia or a conservative wasteland?

“I know that you have your study, but your study really cannot compare to the study I have by using that intersection every day,” said board member C. Doris Pinn
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
You were at the meeting?

I'm in Queens but I was covering it for a friend, that community board has a bit of a reputation from what she told me. After seeing it I can see why.

Last year when asked about issues of street safety, a board member said this:

“That is not an issue in our community, by and large,” Wright said.

From what I hear it's a great source of funny. Then there's this:

“In other places, I guess Transportation Alternatives comes and makes big showings and joins committees,” she said. “They don’t in Community Board 3.”
 
Jon Huntsman's only disagreement with the base of his party is/was on if climate change is a policy issue. And later, gay marriage.

So I don't have to write it out again:

Hey, something I agree w/ benji on. Again, Huntsman totally supported the Ryan plan. He's just somebody on the far right who understands basic science and isn't a total asshole towards gay people.
 

benjipwns

Banned
He also "sounds moderate" in that he's good at word choice and saying nothing. I've also seen the argument that because he "looks Presidential" that people assume he's moderate. Romney was similar.

He probably is one of the more moderate or "center-right" Republicans and the facts of Utah pulled him more to the "right" but the meme still grates on me. Him and Romney and Pawlenty were all about the same in that primary overall in terms of their position in the party.

Hell, Gingrich has talked about climate change, he even teamed up with Nancy Pelosi! But few Democrats ever bring him up as a "sane" Republican because his personality isn't bland and he's got jowls. Also, the 90's.
 
At least he didn't embarrass himself by doing a Foghorn Leghorn impression to trick voters into thinking he was Southern like Pawlenty did.
 

benjipwns

Banned
That Hillary is a lousy campaigner article I linked to on the last page talks about that incident as part of Hillary's pattern of overcompensating. Obama connected with the crowd, so when she had to go next she went in an absurd direction that made her seem even less authentic. And then her team cocooned and came up with all these elaborate excuses about her time in Arkansas and stuff rather than just admit something like "it just came out, no idea" and be able to move on from the story*. And how this was a consistent pattern in the 2008 campaign except for New Hampshire and when it was basically too late.

*Kinda like how they handled the e-mails thing.
 

HylianTom

Banned
CCGEgQJUoAECm6A.jpg:large


I do this and I'm not a politician. I sound different depending on who I'm talking to.
Same here. Lost my Cajun accent in high school, but it comes back with a vengeance whenever I'm excited, or if I'm talking to older relatives.

(And we need a "Ridin' With Biden" poster of his infamous Onion picture..)

o-BIDEN-570.jpg
 
have other GOP pols spoken out

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir...xecution-in-th?utm_term=.maw9pN0pv#.xyX7Y4G4y



Dr. Ben Carson said he was “aghast” at the death of unarmed black man in South Carolina who was shot as he ran from the scene of a traffic stop. Carson called the death at the hands of a police officer an “execution.”

“Probably like most reasonable people you’re aghast,” the possible Republican presidential candidate and world-renowned neurosurgeon told BuzzFeed News in an interview on Wednesday. “It’s horrible to see an execution take place in the street like that.”

Patrolman First Class Michael Slager, 33, is charged with the murder of 50-year-old Walter Scott. A video surfaced Tuesday showing Slager shooting Scott eight times in the back as Scott is running away. Slager pulled Scott over for a malfunctioning brake light.

“Certainly that policeman was too quick to do it,” Carson added when asked if he thought police were too quick to shoot, particularly black men and boys. “I don’t know if you can always generalize in a situation like that but certainly that officer was wrong.”
Carson said the situation provided a good opportunity for police across the country to condemn the killing.

“I think it’s so obvious that he was wrong that this provides an excellent opportunity for law enforcement personnel across the country to really come out and condemn this. And if they do that tells us a lot. And if they don’t that tells us a lot.”
 
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