You do not fuck with John Lewis
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada
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You do not fuck with John Lewis
And_Gignac
Member
All this friction only shows that things are moving towards more black voters considering Sanders.
???????? #???????
Veritigo_X
Member
How is that the conclusion you've drawn from this?
QuiteWhittle
Member
what
what
what
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Reuters had him going from 10-78 to 24-66 between Jan 3rd and Feb 3rd, but I don't think that's significant enough to worry Clinton particularly. Sanders is gaining ground but much too slowly to be a real threat among black voters. If he did the same by South Carolina he'd still be at ~35-58.
Move over, I'd like to come sit in your bubble.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Man, poli-gaf is in rare form today.
Black Mamba
Member
Of course not an actual bill, but he doesn't address anything that matters. It's mostly stuff like "administrative costs," which is the same hollow language the GOP uses.
He doesn't even say what type of single payer system it is.
This is literally all he says about his plan other than how he plans to pay for it:
"Bernies plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernies plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs."
This tells me nothing. This is not a plan at all.
tweaking the ACA?
We just completely remodeled the individual market. I don't see that happening again 6 years later, just a couple years after most of it took place.
ugaboga232
Member
Hillary's plan is just as vague at best and has no information on payment.
We tweaked the individual market, nothing has really changed for a lot of people. A lot of ppl are still dying or not getting the care they need for very preventable diseases. The status quo is immensely failing them.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
How does she tweak ACA? Why will the Republicans let her do that?
RustyNails
Member
Why not? It's not the first time they did it.
Coriolanus
Banned
Fwiw, when discussing if a healthcare proposal is too vague, it's always, yknow, good to remember how detailed previous proposals were when offered during campaigns.
I mean, its not like jacobin wrote an article pointing out how this quest for specifics during a campaign is nothing more than a way to try to discredit candidates you don't favour or anything.
I mean, its not like jacobin wrote an article pointing out how this quest for specifics during a campaign is nothing more than a way to try to discredit candidates you don't favour or anything.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Clinton's healthcare proposals from the 2008 campaign are great - they're like Sanders but even less detailed!
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That Rubio tax plan.
LOLOLOLOL
It's like he is actively sabotaging his campaign at this point. You don't go into a republican election with a tax plan that raises the national debt over 10 trillion dollars.
LOLOLOLOL
It's like he is actively sabotaging his campaign at this point. You don't go into a republican election with a tax plan that raises the national debt over 10 trillion dollars.
UltimaPooh
Member
Well. It is a single payer plan... All you really need to know for the plan is how he proposes to pay for it. Single payer is pretty much universally understood... You won't need insurance as the government will pay your medical costs.
A more substantial plan will be brought out when a bill is created.
You chide Bernie for not having enough a plan for you but you're fine with the plan of tweaking the ACA? What does that mean exactly?
I know Hilary wants to bring down costs across the board pretty much but how does she want to do that.
Is she going to create a regulatory board to regulate the prices? I'm totally cool with that as well instead of a single payer system... But is that something she wants to do?
How else is she going to get prices to come down?
The ACA invested a huge amount of power in the executive branch to invest in and expand pilot programs. It's implementation is not a short term thing. It will continue to get better for years. The rollout for any program this big is fairly slow. New components will continue to be phased in for the next four years.
She doesn't need republican support.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I have a feeling John Lewis' statements will come up during tonight's debate and I'm not sure Hillary would be wise to let Bernie compare what both of them were doing in the early 60's.
Fenderputty
Banned
They should update that millennial test to ask if you know:
A. 0 Kanye Songs
B. 1-5 Kanye Songs
C. 5-15 Kanye Songs
D. Kanye's Discography
It would probably lower my score from a 95 to a 70 with that one question.
EDIT:
The biggest Tweak the ACA needs is the ability to negotiate drug prices. Which will never happen,
A. 0 Kanye Songs
B. 1-5 Kanye Songs
C. 5-15 Kanye Songs
D. Kanye's Discography
It would probably lower my score from a 95 to a 70 with that one question.
EDIT:
The biggest Tweak the ACA needs is the ability to negotiate drug prices. Which will never happen,
Kanye sucks... So I hope it takes off about 90 points from my score.
She's not going to use this to hit him. The best thing to say would be something like, "Mr Lewis can say what he wants, but I am focused on today, not the past, and on our differences on the issues."
And_Gignac
Member
The discussion of Sanders problem with minorities has become a protagonist now that we are heading towards Nevada and SC. This discussion of Sanders may be in a bad light for some, but in a good light for others. Additionally we have his meeting with Al Sharpton; Michelle Alexander article about how Clinton is not deserving of the black vote (and a low-key endorsement of Sanders by calling him "the lesser of two evils"); Ta-Nehisi admitting he is voting for Bernie and Harry Belafonde endorsement.
Going by Keith Ellison description of how the Black Caucus PAC endorsement happened, I feel like the endorsement was probably a preventive and protective reaction. This is not only an endorsement of Clinton, but an evident attack on Sanders credentials with race issues.
Friction means theres a discussion.
Going by Keith Ellison description of how the Black Caucus PAC endorsement happened, I feel like the endorsement was probably a preventive and protective reaction. This is not only an endorsement of Clinton, but an evident attack on Sanders credentials with race issues.
Friction means theres a discussion.
Coriolanus
Banned
...why the millenial hate? why in god's green name would yall wanna identify as gen x'ers? Embrace it.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
In the event that Sanders cannot get support for his healthcare plan, the ACA still exists, and the executive ability to expand the ACA still exists. Presumably, Sanders would also then expand it insofar as the executive can - this would be consistent with all of his stances on the issue. Why does Clinton therefore have an advantage on this?
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I think it depends on how hard and transparently they'll be fighting to persuade black voters tonight. I'm having a hard time gauging the tone this debate will take. I think it will be markedly different from the others.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Wasn't Clinton a teenager a high school?
eBay Huckster
Member
ten bucks says a meta-analysis of people's answers to this question will essentially boil down to "she already has direct executive-branch experience from her time at State"
I don't think she has reason to take the gloves off yet, Bernie does but if he will remains to be seen.
I know you're not espousing it, but this line of attack is such horseshit. I was a Republican when I was younger, too, because my parents were Republicans. It's not uncommon for people to change their opinions once they go to college or even just grow older.
I would never want my progressive credential tested because I once tried to write a hit piece in my school newspaper about how our teachers were evil, indoctrinating liberals.
Black Mamba
Member
Look, I agree we still need to improve a lot, but it's also true that most people are fine with the status quo. http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/poll-most-adults-actually-like-their-health-insurance/2263167
The GOP tweaked other programs it doesn't like in the past, it will again. Once Hillary wins in 2016, the ACA is set in stone. We aren't going to have these major battles forever.
Eventually, they'll tweak it in some ways. Honestly, it doesn't matter how because it's just tweaks. Essentially her healthcare plan is the ACA staying and trying to improve where they see it can be done. That's fine.
I mean, your argument is essentially "How will Hillary pass any legislation at all," but if that's your argument, then you're arguing you might as well vote for a Republican.
Except single payers across the world work differently. I would at least like to have some understanding of what he's proposing. How can he even know the costs without knowing the system?
Bernie is proposing a massive overhaul of the system. Like, the biggest overhaul in our nation's history. So yeah, I'm going to chide him for not having any details at all. just like I did with Mitt and his bullshit revenue neutral taxes through magic.
Yeah, Hillary wants to bring down costs, everyone does. Even the GOPers say they want to do that. At least I know where they (minus Trump) stand. They would repeal the ACA and go back to pre-ACA days. That's their plan.
Hillary's stance is simple. It's the ACA and making fixes where they can. Obama's stance is the same! She's not proposing what to fix right now necessarily and honestly, I don't care. Tweaks are small, albeit can be important.
There's a world of difference between a tweak and what Bernie is proposing. If you're going to restructure everything, I need something more concrete than "single payer, just go to your doc whenever and you're good" approach. That is not a plan.
I cannot even say whether I support his plan because it does not exist outside of an ideal.
There's a reason I've had him blocked on twitter for ages.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, as Secretary of State - an absolute mile away from anything healthcare related. Meanwhile, Sanders co-authored the Affordable Care Act. He probably knows it better than most.
Quite Whittle said:
Yes, busy campaigning for Goldwater.
Clinton gives a shit about the real world and doesn't just sing songs about magic revolutions.
Bernie is a fucking joke on practical policy. He's not detail oriented at all and he's so insanely ideological that he'd probably consider making this a priority selling out. For christ's sake, this is the guy who thought it'd be a good idea to primary Obama. Even if he didn't consider it a sell out, the guy is too focused on his fantasy land shit to make it a real priority.
Hills actually has experience running an executive agency (I guess this is a bad answer because people anticipated it?), isn't afraid to get in the weeds on these things, and is actually focused on the real world, instead of the stardust rainbow land Bernie lives in.
User 463088
Banned
The only time I've ever seen Kanye perform was when I watched SNL and he was on there. He did this thing where the roof was low and he was trapped under it. I didn't understand it.
I'm not that smart.
I'm not that smart.
Coriolanus
Banned
Which would be about as cynic as arguing that his experience as mayor gives him great executive cred.
I campaigned for Bush in 2004 when I was 15.
Do you really think that's a smart/legitimate line of attack?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Seems to me like South Carolina is going to end Bernie's chances rather definitively if this shit keeps up.
eBay Huckster
Member
i mean, i did say meta-analysis
speaking of which, CALLED IT
it's especially horseshit when you know Liz Warren (who Clinton is continually unfavorably compared to re: being a Real Progressive) was a Republican not even 20 years ago, with everything that that means
I don't think Kanye understood it either.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
There's so much irony in this post I nearly choked.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Yes, but more infamously she supported Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential bid. IF Hillary were to make a thing of Bernie's past (I think she's smart enough not to) it would be pretty easy for Bernie to bring up that bit of trivia.
Ivysaur12 said:
I agree, people should be able to change their minds as they age and develop a view of the world. Regardless, I think it would be an effective counter-punch if Bernie's past is questioned because politics isn't always about reason and common sense. I don't think Hillary supporting Goldwater is some glaring flaw, but plenty of people probably would.
Tarkus
Member
I've only heard the gold digger song. Not a true millennial.
Yeah, and Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until 1996. People did stupid shit in the past.
Also - what? Why? Do you come from a rich WASPy family or something?
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