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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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NeoXChaos

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The Case for Hillary excerpt:

The first question to ask about Sanders — and this may seem like a strange thing one would need to ask about a candidate, but with him it’s necessary — is whether or not one should take his platform seriously. Even among his supporters, there is debate over whether or not these are real proposals, or if they’re more like a list of principles. But the latter interpretation is just that — an interpretation. Bernie Sanders tells us his platform is feasible, and that he fully intends to make his proposals a reality. If we’re to believe him, apparently he believes himself.
The proposal that’s getting the most attention is single payer, so let’s start there, as it is very, very, very ambitious. He intends to pay for it all through a series of tax increases. Sounds great. Tax the rich, free health care for everyone. Except that his math is off by anywhere from one trillion to three trillion dollars. The Sanders campaign disputes this, but their numbers are wildly optimistic. Perhaps even more importantly, Sanders doesn’t tell us what kind of single payer he’s talking about — the Canadian system, UK system, French system, or German system, all of which function differently. He doesn’t tell us if doctors’ salaries will be mandated by the government and by how much. He doesn’t tell us what will and won’t be covered, and who will be deciding that. In fact, Sanders health care plan isn’t a plan at all.

Sanders promises his health care system will cover pretty much everything while costing the average American almost nothing, and he relies mainly on vague “administrative” savings and massive taxes on the rich to make up the difference. It’s everything critics fear a single-payer plan would be, and it lacks the kind of engagement with the problems of single-payer health systems necessary to win over skeptics.
And it’s winning over the skeptics that really needs to be addressed here. It’s as if, after watching the political shitshow that transpired over a proposed “public option” under Obamacare, Sanders thought to himself, “We should try and pass something that’s a hundred thousand times larger.” It’s quite reasonable to wonder just how on earth he plans to make this happen. And this is where Bernie really shines.
The key element of Sanders’ campaign is the “millions of people” who will “rise up” and overthrow the Republican congress, replacing them with politicians who will vote for socialist legislation. Whenever Sanders is confronted with the difficulties of getting anything in his platform passed, this is always his response. The answer, he says, is “…to have millions of people rise up…”
Note the use of the verb “have.” We’ll just have that happen. Like, “We’ll have the maid pick up an extra quart of milk.”

We don’t need to ask just how many millions of voters would be required to make this dream a reality. We don’t need to consider what congressional districts to target. We don’t need to consult political scientists to gain a better understanding of why people vote and why people don’t vote. We don’t need to build new, or improve upon existing political infrastructures to facilitate this dramatic electoral transformation. We certainly don’t need to consult with the people in the Democratic party who have, for decades, been studying the makeup of the voting population across the nation, developing tools and strategies to reach people more effectively. Nope. None of that is necessary. All that’s necessary is for Bernie Sanders to become president. Once that happens it will be like Field of Dreams. Ghosts will wander from cornfields, ready to vote for single payer.

We’ll just have it happen.This is the most depressing, and perhaps dangerous thing about Bernie Sanders. He is not a problem solver. Problem solving requires an honest, accurate understanding of reality and the challenges you face. And Sanders shows no interest whatsoever in acknowledging the complicated nature of our country. With him, all our problems, and the solutions to those problems can be fully expressed on a bumpersticker.A couple of years ago, a psychologist named Gabriele Oettingen published a piece in the New York Times, in which she argued against the merits of “positive thinking.” Essentially, she defines positive thinking as “imagining you’re going to succeed.” I take some issue with the rhetoric here, because I wouldn’t define that as positive thinking at all. But whatever you call it, her studies concluded that people who engage in this sort of outlook are more likely to fail, and the reason is not surprising. Because true “positive thinking,” in my view, is not imagining that everything will work out, but rather, is having the faith in your resolve to overcome the obstacles. But to do that, you must understand the obstacles. Sanders clearly does not. He is the ultimate positive thinker as Oettingen defines it — one who just pictures it happening in his head, at which point that image overtakes reality. And I’m sorry to say this, but it’s a way of thinking that Sanders shares with Republicans. He even borrows a mathematical trick they use, claiming that his policies will be so awesome for everyone, they’ll vastly improve the economy, thus compensating for any deficiencies in funding — despite there being absolutely zero evidence that this is remotely true.
Now, a lot of Bernie supporters tell me they understand that none of his agenda will ever pass — they just like him better because he’s more progressive, and they want the most progressive person in the White House. I would say to those people that if Bernie also realizes his agenda is impossible, he’s egregiously misrepresenting himself for the purpose of earning votes, and that should trouble you. If he isn’t aware of this, well then he’s delusional, and that should be equally troubling.

I’m a strong believer in democratic socialism, but speaking of Orwell (who also, by the way, identified as a Democratic Socialist), this campaign is starting to look more like the kind of socialism we see in Nineteen Eighty-four. It doesn’t matter that what Sanders is telling us isn’t true. We should vote for him because he’s so truthful. It doesn’t matter that his math is off by at least a trillion dollars. His plans will still work, because 2+2=5. It doesn’t matter whether or not there really are millions and millions of voters out there ready to turn America into Sweden. They exist in our minds, therefore, they’re real. And Hillary Clinton — she is the enemy who must be hated.

As rightly intentioned as Bernie Sanders might be, his presidency could cause near fatal damage to the progressive cause. Should he bumble his way through Washington with nothing but rhetoric, fantasies, unworkable plans, and impossible promises, he could make a pathetic joke of everything we’re fighting for. The idea of democratic socialism will be solidified in the American consciousness as unworkable and foolish.

https://medium.com/@zacharyleven/the-case-for-hillary-3564233d524f#.163ydwjxj
 
Ca1kGYTUMAE5YSZ.jpg
 
Real talk: Kanye has about three good tracks, all from early in his career, and has been floating on self-importance and competent media management since then.

He's like the Trump of pop culture at this point.

It's bad enough you support Bernie, this shit too maine? Come on now.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
How long was this post buffering? He dropped out months ago, I presume because he killed a man in Vietnam.

He dropped out of the Dem nom; but he was still running as an independent.
 
Ben Carson's dominance on Facebook is fucking remarkable:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/facebook-primary/

No, it's not. He's got a bunch of "hanging Likes" from the incredible stuff he did as a Neurosurgeon and that was neither political divisive nor limited to people interested enough in politics to Like a presidential candidate. Trump probably has a few hanging Likes as well but that's not going to get you the same amount of likes as some of the surgical stuff Carson accomplished.
 

This touches on a lot of my criticisms.

I've thought about writing a long piece (in post terms) about why Bernie isn't a real candidate worth voting for.

Ignoring the GE stuff, the situation here is that Bernie's promising something he can't come close to delivering and he has no way of solving this. Which leads into a bigger issue.

Bernie is great at pointing out that something wrong in our society. He's great at messaging this. And this is a very important thing and something we need. We need people like Bernie going out there and making sure we know something is wrong. The problem is that Bernie often doesn't understand the machinations about why and he certainly doesn't have any way of properly addressing it. It's all idealism with no reality.

It's similar when Mitt promised revenue neutrality without telling us what deductions will be cut. It'll happen through magic politics! Only worse, because Bernie props up something like "single payer," but doesn't explain what type of single payer at all. We have no idea what anything will look like other than unicorns.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crab thinks Bernie is going to be competitive in KS?

Uh... sure I guess?

You do realize states look different at a primary level than they do at the presidential level, right? For example, Utah is one of the most liberal states in the Democratic primary.
 
It's similar when Mitt promised revenue neutrality without telling us what deductions will be cut. It'll happen through magic politics! Only worse, because Bernie props up something like "single payer," but doesn't explain what type of single payer at all. We have no idea what anything will look like other than unicorns.

You serious?

He has an outline for a plan to get Single Payer.

Will it pass Congress? You're right, it's up in the air on whether that happens or not.

But he does have an actual plan.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/
 

Holmes

Member
Crab thinks Bernie is going to be competitive in KS?

Uh... sure I guess?
I said that and it's possible because Kansas is similar demographics-wise to Iowa. Same with Nebraska (Omaha is in the same media market at Council Bluffs). Just because he's competitive doesn't necessarily mean he'll win, but it won't be like Sanders winning NH or Clinton winning SC margins.
 
Iran basically says the GOP are traitors to America:

Ali Shamkhani, chief of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, claimed today that U.S. Republican officials reached out to Tehran asking that the recent release of four American prisoners be delayed until after the upcoming presidential election. There are very good reasons to be skeptical of Shamkhani’s claim. If it is true, it is completely insane.

“In the course of the talks for exchanging prisoners, the Republican rivals of the current US administration who claim to be humanitarians and advocates of human rights sent a message telling us not to release these people (American prisoners) and continue this process (of talks) until the eve of US presidential elections...However, we acted upon our independent resolve and moved the process forward.” Shamkhani said at a rally yesterday, according to the Tasnim News Agency, a firmly pro-regime organization.

http://gawker.com/iran-official-cla...m_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


Uhh, not sure about this one...
 

daedalius

Member
You do realize states look different at a primary level than they do at the presidential level, right? For example, Utah is one of the most liberal states in the Democratic primary.

I do.

I just wasn't under the impression most democratic kansans were super liberal, or young. But hey, I'm probably wrong.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I'm just going to assume Crab grew up in the 60s, with "real" music and "real" progressives.

Naw. I just know that Kendrick Lamar's output is infinitely better than anything Kanye could dream of.
 
I do.

I just wasn't under the impression most democratic kansans were super liberal, or young. But hey, I'm probably wrong.

It's sort of what you'd expect: Assuming that most people are conservative then to self identify as not conservative requires a higher commitment to that principle than it does in a situation where most people are also not conservative. Or to take the PoliGAF view the only people left are the delusional idealists and will the last one to leave please turn out the lights.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
It's sort of what you'd expect: Assuming that most people are conservative then to self identify as not conservative requires a higher commitment to that principle than it does in a situation where most people are also not conservative. Or to take the PoliGAF view the only people left are the delusional idealists and will the last one to leave please turn out the lights.

As a rule of thumb, this is actually pretty true. The most liberal Democrat primaries tend to be the ones in the most Republican states. There's exceptions in the South because minority Democrats tend not consider themselves liberal, but it holds pretty strong in the white Republican states - their primaries are all have massively liberal track records.
 
Are you serious? This is not an actual plan. It's mostly generalities.

Generalities? He specifies where he'll get the money from. What his plan will do. What is a plan to you? An actual bill? You realize Obama never had an ACA bill to put on his website when he ran in 2008 right? They were all as you put... generalities.
 
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