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[Dixon's Jet]

a fight where all he gets enacted is a payroll tax hike and the midterm electorate promptly ensures another decade of This Shit

I don't see his supporters abandoning him the day after he's elected. I see his support further swelling. His message is so inclusive and progressive that people will rally to it, when the wealth is going from the bottom to the top all over this country people will have to choose between that reality and the words of some Republican on television.

 

[Veritigo_X]

What were Obama supporters saying about midterm elections in 08? Was anyone talking about them?

 

[BoboBrazil]

Supposedly he can keep it in the bank for future election campaigns, I think?

Otherwise it's donations elsewhere, he's not allowed to spend it on himself technically.

Ahh, I'd hope if there is any left that he would give it to the DNC. Also I hope he has the decency to drop out after Super Tuesday if he gets beat in enough states.

 

[thezerofire]

Well Bernie says it will at least be a fight of several years. Bernie has a genuinely pragmatic approach to enacting his policies. Why do you think he calls for a revolution? He never said it'll be easy.

Stop putting words in his mouth.

Those things seem to conflict

 

[Makai]

How about a nice stipend for those of us who paid back our loans? I'd go for that.

Sorry, Kev. The plan is to eat the rich.

 

[eBay Huckster]

you'll have to pardon me if i don't expect bernie sanders to singlehandedly reverse a 200-year trend toward midterm-election VEP being at least 15% lower than presidential elections

 

[Basileus777]

Ahh, I'd hope if there is any left that he would give it to the DNC. Also I hope he has the decency to drop out after Super Tuesday if he gets beat in enough states.

No one's dropping out after Super Tuesday on the Democratic side. And it's not really an expectation anyone should hold.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

Those things seem to conflict

When the revolution means getting people out to vote I don't think it's too extreme.

 

[BoboBrazil]

No one's dropping out after Super Tuesday on the Democratic side.

He should once he loses most of the states.

 

[eBay Huckster]

No one's dropping out after Super Tuesday on the Democratic side. And it's not really an expectation anyone should hold.

much like in 2008, i'm not expecting either candidate to officially drop out until at least june

 

[Frank the Great]

Apparently Scalia weighed in on an issue we had a heated argument over early on in the thread.



Hopefully that settles it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/antonin-scalia-deep-dish-pizza-chicago-103593

I hate to call out a dead man, but I am shocked at Scalia's comments here.

Not regarding his disassociation of Chicago "pizza" from real pizza. He is absolutely correct; Chicago style is not pizza.

But seeing as he grew up in Trenton, I am shocked that he doesn't know what a tomato pie is. A tomato pie is thin crust, mozzarella underneath the sauce, and chunky tomato sauce. Chicago style is NOT anything near a tomato pie.

I would forgive anyone else for calling a Chicago style a tomato pie, but this dude is from Trenton. There is a Scalia Street over here. Come'on son.

 

[CCS]

Sanders' revolution is a complete non-starter. He should come over here and talk to Corbyn about how well his revolution is going. He got almost 60% of the vote in a four way race for Labour leader, on a socialist platform that appealed to young people and promised a political revolution, and since he's become Labour leader the phrase "sinking like a stone" might be too generous for what's happened to the party.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

you'll have to pardon me if i don't expect bernie sanders to singlehandedly reverse a 200-year trend toward midterm-election VEP being at least 15% lower than presidential elections

I'll pardon you for ignoring the rise of both Trump and Sanders, two anti-establishment candidates who have already gone further than anyone would have guessed 1 year ago.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'll pardon you for ignoring the rise of both Trump and Sanders.

well golly, that totally throws historical precedent out the window

 

[Dixon's Jet]

well golly, that totally throws historical precedent out the window

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-orlin/bernie-sanders-won-the-mo_b_9228324.html
Bernie Sanders Won the Most Votes Ever in a New Hampshire Presidential Primary

Why doesn't this matter?

 

[eBay Huckster]

why does this matter more than every election since martin van buren's, up to and including 2012 -> 2014?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Oh god, Trump with that exclamation point(!)

 

[Iolo]

Where does all the money go that people are donating to Sanders once he loses the nomination?

To his 2020 presidential campaign.

 

[Makai]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-orlin/bernie-sanders-won-the-mo_b_9228324.html
Bernie Sanders Won the Most Votes Ever in a New Hampshire Presidential Primary

Why doesn't this matter?

There's only two candidates running and the population is greater. I don't see what that has to do with midterm turnout. ebayHuckster's point is pretty much indisputable.

 

[ivysaur12]

Sanders' revolution is a complete non-starter. He should come over here and talk to Corbyn about how well his revolution is going. He got almost 60% of the vote in a four way race for Labour leader, on a socialist platform that appealed to young people and promised a political revolution, and since he's become Labour leader the phrase "sinking like a stone" might be too generous for what's happened to the party.

Fair or not, I'm pretty sure the press would do to Bernie what they've done to Corbyn. And like Corbyn, I don't think Bernie has the political know-how to combat the onslaught of attacks from every which way.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

why does this matter more than every election since martin van buren's, up to and including 2012 -> 2014?

I think that it matters a lot not least because conservatives in the US have spent immense wealth trying to educate the people that anybody who calls herself or himself a socialist is a an evil cretin. And now a new generation of voters are challenging that with a serious revolution. To see any democrat deride this revolution is depressing.

 

[ivysaur12]

God, Susan Collins is so fucking reasonable.

At least one Republican, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, who is not facing re-election, sought a middle ground. “Our role in the Senate is to evaluate the nominee’s temperament, intellect, experience, integrity and respect for the Constitution and the rule of law,” she said in a statement.

 

[eBay Huckster]

what's depressing is that a presidential election process, without any existing local ground work and with lower voter turnout than the previous competitive cycle, is unironically being referred to as a "revolution"

 

[Dixon's Jet]

what's depressing is that a presidential election process, without any existing local ground work and with lower voter turnout than the previous competitive cycle, is unironically being referred to as a "revolution"

And there's the derision. Yes, I say bringing US politics out of Kissinger's shadow is a net positive, and I hope it's revolutionary too.

 

[eBay Huckster]

and there's the wafer-thin skin

at best, this is a realignment in progress

 

[Ogrekiller]

And there's the derision.

Why, when there is no effort to truly revolutionize?

What makes this revolution any different from an ochlocracy?

 

[daedalius]

And there's the derision. Yes, I say bringing US politics out of Kissinger's shadow is a net positive, and I hope it's revolutionary too.

lol what?

This what you dont get: Sanders is way more charismatic than Clinton. His promises are cool and all, but people just like him that much and prefer him over Clinton because he seems honest and compromised. Even if he couldnt deliver with his promises, people would still prefer him over Clinton.

"People"

I don't know, I hear his words, but in my head, all I can think of is "there's no way he could get any of this shit done"

And it always seems like his stump speech, every time, he ties back around to it.

 

[And_Gignac]

I would love to know how many Bernie voters REALLY think they'll get free college and single payer if he is elected... among all of his other promises. Do they have any idea how the government works?

This what you dont get: Sanders is way more charismatic than Clinton. His promises are cool and all, but people just like him that much and prefer him over Clinton because he seems honest and compromised. Even if he couldnt deliver with his promises, people would still prefer him over Clinton.

 

[Iolo]

A revolution would be getting tons of like-minded people in local and state offices and working up to the presidency. Taking just the top office without such structural support is a shortcut to failure.

 

[pigeon]

And there's the derision.

Welcome to the Internet. Please enjoy your stay.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

Why, when there is no effort to truly revolutionize?

What makes this revolution any different from an ochlocracy?

Are all grass roots movements to be dismissed as ochlocracy? We are already living in an oligarchy, the massive poverty created by that oligarchy will naturally push us towards ochlocracy but in the present we still live in a semi functioning democratic republic. The revolution means reaching out and taking that vote back from the oligarchy.

 

[Gotchaye]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-orlin/bernie-sanders-won-the-mo_b_9228324.html
Bernie Sanders Won the Most Votes Ever in a New Hampshire Presidential Primary

Why doesn't this matter?

Well, why does it matter? What does this tell us?

Did Sanders actually turn out many more people than have turned out before? No, not really. Like, compare to 2008. More people actually voted in the NH Democratic primary in 2008 (comparing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshire,_2008#Democratic and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Democratic_primary,_2016). What happened was that Sanders beat Clinton by a lot, percentage-wise, such that he got a larger share of a smaller total vote pool. Now, maybe this doesn't disprove the political revolution - there were more candidates in 2008 which might explain why there were more voters - but it's certainly not evidence for it. One would think that if there was anything to Sanders' "political revolution" we'd be seeing much higher than normal turnout in primaries.

 

[Veritigo_X]

This what you dont get: Sanders is way more charismatic than Clinton. His promises are cool and all, but people just like him that much and prefer him over Clinton because he seems honest and compromised. Even if he couldnt deliver with his promises, people would still prefer him over Clinton.

What does that do for us once he's in office and can't give anything he is promising? Haven't we been through this already?

 

[Kyosaiga]

This what you dont get: Sanders is way more charismatic than Clinton. His promises are cool and all, but people just like him that much and prefer him over Clinton because he seems honest and compromised. Even if he couldnt deliver with his promises, people would still prefer him over Clinton.

Lol what? He's literally the poster boy for old man yells at cloud.

Guy is either a liar or delusional as hell. I'm honestly not sure which is worse

 

[Ogrekiller]

Are all grass roots movements to be dismissed as ochlocracy? We are already living in an oligarchy, the massive poverty created by that oligarchy will naturally push us towards ochlocracy but in the present we still live in a semi functioning democratic republic. The revolution means reaching out and taking that vote back from the oligarchy.

But there has been NO effort from Sanders to do that, from his time in office to even now as he is running for president. The focal point and only aim of this revolution is to elect him and only him.

 

[Aaron Strife]

what's depressing is that a presidential election process, without any existing local ground work and with lower voter turnout than the previous competitive cycle, is unironically being referred to as a "revolution"

I'm pretty sure everyone's first presidential election feels like the biggest one ever because it's the first one they're paying attention to.

Some older millennials might remember 2004 which could temper expectations a little, but for most millennials their political knowledge begins in 2008, when liberal savior Barack Obama beat the evil bitch Hillary Clinton and cruised in the general election. Now he can't get stuff done, I wonder why? Must be because he's a corporate sellout. Hey look, Bernie Sanders!

I think most of Bernie's very enthused younger supporters haven't really tasted defeat yet and that's kind of a problem. It's someone who wins their first two hands in blackjack and decides to put all their chips on the table for the third. A friend of mine is a huge Bernie supporter, gets all of his political news from Young Turks and is convinced that none of the Republican candidates could beat Bernie except "maybe" Kasich. For me it's more like I don't know if he could beat any Republican except maybe Trump.

Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical of a candidate whose game plan is "boost turnout to 75%" when he hasn't even been able to do that in the primary.

 

[shem935]

What does that do for us once he's in office and can't give anything he is promising? Haven't we been through this already?

Then bernie won't be a real progressive in 8 years cause he can't get shit done. And the cycle continues.

 

[thezerofire]

Are all grass roots movements to be dismissed as ochlocracy? We are already living in an oligarchy, the massive poverty created by that oligarchy will naturally push us towards ochlocracy but in the present we still live in a semi functioning democratic republic. The revolution means reaching out and taking that vote back from the oligarchy.

the only grassroots stuff has been for him to be elected, he doesn't do anything for other people down-ballet

 

[Coriolanus]

Oh hey, look at people once again pretending that Bern can afford to care for the downticket while trying to get the nom for a party he largely isnt a part of.

Lol what? He's literally the poster boy for old man yells at cloud.

Thats as delusional as if one said that Hillary is the postergirl for untrustworthy murderous puma.

Oh god, Trump with that exclamation point(!)

Too good for this world, that man is.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

lol what?



"People"

I don't know, I hear his words, but in my head, all I can think of is "there's no way he could get any of this shit done"

Kissinger possesses a contempt for life which must give every Clinton supporter a serious pause for thought. Clinton considers him a close friend and a mentor. The two are vile.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Kissinger possesses a contempt for life which must give every Sanders supporter a serious pause for thought. Clinton considers him a close friend and a mentor. The two are vile.

Fixed.

 

[daedalius]

Kissinger possesses a contempt for life which must give every Clinton supporter a serious pause for thought. Clinton considers him a close friend and a mentor. The two are vile.

I didn't see where she said he was a close friend and mentor, I just saw that she said that advice can come from all sorts of people, regardless if you always agree with them or not.

Stopped clock is always right twice a day, etc etc

 

[Tesseract]

every time someone uses optics, drink

 

[Dixon's Jet]

I didn't see where she said he was a close friend and mentor, I just saw that she said that advice can come from all sorts of people, regardless if you always agree with them or not.

Stopped clock is always right twice a day, etc etc

She calls him a friend and says they check in all the time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-henry-kissingers-latest-book-and-loved-it/

And let us remember Kissinger is the guy who said it was no concern if the Soviet Union decided to start exterminating the Jews.

 

[ivysaur12]

She calls him a friend and says they check in all the time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-henry-kissingers-latest-book-and-loved-it/

And let us remember Kissinger is the guy who said it was no concern if the Soviet Union decided to start exterminating the Jews.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg calls Antonin Scalia a friend and says they check in all the time.

And let us remember Scalia is the guy who said "If we cannot have moral feelings against homosexuality, can we have it against murder?"

 

[And_Gignac]

every time someone uses optics, drink

every time an "insider" says Clinton has an organizational advantage in X state, drink.

 

[Macho Madness]

The Nevada Culinary Union will not endorse on either side but they have invited Trump to a negotiation the night of the Republican caucus because he's 50% owner of the Trump Hotel in Vegas. Hilarious.

Also, Nevada is weird. You can vote in both party's caucus and there's nothing preventing it.

 

[CCS]

Fair or not, I'm pretty sure the press would do to Bernie what they've done to Corbyn. And like Corbyn, I don't think Bernie has the political know-how to combat the onslaught of attacks from every which way.

Precisely. It's going to be exactly the same thing all over again.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg calls Antonin Scalia a friend and says they check in all the time.

And let us remember Scalia is the guy who said "If we cannot have moral feelings against homosexuality, can we have it against murder?"

Wow, that should be super concerning for any Ginsburg supporters.

 

[Ogrekiller]

She calls him a friend and says they check in all the time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-henry-kissingers-latest-book-and-loved-it/

And let us remember Kissinger is the guy who said it was no concern if the Soviet Union decided to start exterminating the Jews.

You do realize that everyone was buddies in DC before Newt decided to firebomb the place to the ground and made partisanship the new world order. It was how things got done in the first place. It is why Kagan and Scalia were good friends even though they couldn't be further apart in views. Bernie's best friend in the Senate was Jim Inhofe.