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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
............................. But Trump supporters aren't racist?
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CCS said:
So 1/3 of the Republican base are insane/insanely bigoted. Who would have known?

Seriously though, what the actual fuck.
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Think about what percentage of people in the US actually grew up during segregation still, and especially that region. 1/3 is not terribly surprising, to be honest. Also, if I am reading that correctly...it's 1/3 of 35%...so potentially as low as 10% (assuming that Trump's followers have self-selected themselves so that his supporters contain the majority of people holding those opinions).

Considering most polls usually have about 8-10% of the votes towards something batshit insane, this number should not be surprising
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
CbWCgjTWEAAwz2z.png


Ben Carson and John Kasich fans aren't as big of scumbags as the other voters it seems.
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I knew it. I knew it wouldn't be Trump voters only. Those are some insane numbers.

You know what makes these numbers worse? HOW ARE 34% OF PEOPLE NOT SURE? I am just going to assume they didn't want to admit their racism.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Gruco said:
Bernie's economics problem is every bit as real and substantial as his foreign policy problem

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/16/u...t-of-bernie-sanderss-plans.html?smid=tw-share
http://qz.com/610963/bernie-sanders-refusal-to-reveal-his-economic-advisers-is-an-ominous-sign/






A few of the specific problems people here are broadly aware of, such as the magical cost saving assumptions for health care, and unrealistic revenue projections from a financial transaction tax. But it goes well beyond that. Much like how his campaign has no real foreign policy advisors, liberal economists almost to a person criticize his proposals. I don't think he has any advisors of note, speaking both of those economists with policy experience as well as academics from the most highly regarded programs. Which of course, is why his proposals are so bad.

So, to recap, Bernie Sanders

  1. Wants to ignore the progress of the 111th Congress and refight those battles, instead of moving on to other important issues.
  2. Has no legislative strategy to empower him to do this, other than wishful thinking about a geographically impossible political revolution.
  3. Is routinely criticized by liberal economists, and has no real support among economists, leading to shoddy policy proposals that wouldn't work even if said imaginary revolution happened.
  4. Is both ignorant about and indifferent towards foreign policy, making him unqualified to engage in the area where the president has the most direct power.
  5. Apparently thinks he can pardon people in state prison.
Click to expand...

Lets dispel the notion that Bernie Sanders doesn't know exactly what he is doing.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Cybit said:
Think about what percentage of people in the US actually grew up during segregation still, and especially that region. 1/3 is not terribly surprising, to be honest. Also, if I am reading that correctly...it's 1/3 of 35%...so potentially as low as 10% (assuming that Trump's followers have self-selected themselves so that his supporters contain the majority of people holding those opinions).

Considering most polls usually have about 8-10% of the votes towards something batshit insane, this number should not be surprising
Click to expand...

30% of South Republicans wish the Confederacy won the war.

And young people are just as racist as old people according to most polling.

America is just a super racist nation.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
Why are college kids buying into Sanders' rainbows and unicorns policies? Do they not realize how politics work? The amount of money being thrown into his campaign is crazy.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Melkr_ said:
https://vine.co/v/ivqn5HQwLDF

messy.

The optics omg.



He can only go up when ads roll in and election hype captures the conversation. I really dont see it as a bad thing, considering he is probably at <10% in nationals. Its a privilege Clinton does not have.
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But he has no more time. These contents aren't 6 months away. March is going to be a machine gun of primaries that are going to rely on long term organization and any name rec built up thus far. Bernie doesn't have that as of today.

Kyosaiga said:
Per MSNBC

Among young African Americans 18-29

Clinton: 46%
Sanders: 33%

Damn, Hillary.
Click to expand...

In her worst demographic with her best demographic, she's winning by +13%.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
BoboBrazil said:
Why are college kids buying into Sanders' rainbows and unicorns policies? Do they not realize how politics work? The amount of money being thrown into his campaign is crazy.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, they largely don't actually give a shit about feasibility; they just want to see someone actively stumping as far to the left as possible on these issues.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
.@JesseRodriguez
NEWS: Joe & Mika will moderate a town hall with Donald Trump airing in prime time tomorrow at 8pmET @MSNBC
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It almost seems like they're trying to help Trump to the nomination. This is basically an hour of free primetime exposure. Amazing.

Edit: this airs at the same time as CNN's event with Cruz, Carson, and Rubio.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
BoboBrazil said:
Why are college kids buying into Sanders' rainbows and unicorns policies? Do they not realize how politics work? The amount of money being thrown into his campaign is crazy.
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To be fair Hillary is promising some fairy tales as well. Everyone does it every four years. The problem with Sanders is that literally his entire platform is a fairy tale, as Bill would say. From the political revolution to single payer.
 
Z

Ziltoidia 9

Member
If there is any conspiracy involving trump, its that the national news wanted him to get in the race and stay in the race, to give them amazing ratings. Because really, if he lasts until the GE, their ratings uptick will have lasted a year and a half.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
HylianTom said:
.@JesseRodriguez


It almost seems like they're trying to help Trump to the nomination. This is basically an hour of free primetime exposure. Amazing.

Edit: this airs at the same time as CNN's event with Cruz, Carson, and Rubio.
Click to expand...

TV is only loyal to the ratings and Trump brings ratings.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Macho Madness said:
I'm going to say it again: If Sanders beats Hillary, maybe he is our best shot and maybe Hillary wasn't.
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Maybe to win the election, but not to advance and enact progressive policies. I think with how Sanders has run his campaign and with how he treats legislators (colleagues) and they treat him, and his "all or nothing" philosophy, he'll burn so many bridges and probably anger so many Americans that the progressive goals he's trying to champion become so unpopular and toxic that it might give rise to something worse than the Tea Party.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
Veritigo_X said:
I'm just trying to say save it for something actually worth freaking out over.

I don't believe a Rubio surge is going to happen.
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Rubio is the scariest in the general to go against for sure. Establishment is already behind Rubio. Been seeing alot of Rubio commercials on TV. They generally stay positive too.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Melkr_ said:
His "Dont Know" are not a bad thing. Most people wont be aware of him until their state primary gets closer, so that gives him a lot of potential to grow. PPP also leans Clinton by A LOT. I think it is fair to judge the pollster by their results in the current race, and PPP comically skews Clinton: They had Clinton+8 in IW and Clinton+3 in their last NH poll (first week of January, I wonder why they decided not to poll the place later on?)

Lets use Morning Consult latest poll as a guide: Bernie is at 26% with AA voters and at 44% vs 52% with Hispanics. He already has more support with black and hispanic voters than Clinton and Obama had in 08, respectively. Obama was trounced 2:1 (65% vs 35%) with Hispanics and Clinton garnered just 17% of black votes.

So yeah, he is making tons of inroads.
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Number one, we're not talking about national numbers. I have zero doubts Bernie has improved substantially among non-southern Blacks. He's improved some among southern AAs, but I would argue not by the same levels. Also, take a look at the NBC News/Survey Monkey poll. Hillary is up among AA since the end of January. Since the end of the year, there's been almost no movement towards him from AA voters. His best chance among AA was to get millennial AA voters. Survey Monkey shows us he's trailing her 64/25.

South Carolina is in 10 days. He has been running for President since, what, June? His unfavorables are higher than hers in SC. He's not giving people a reason to want to learn more about him. They're happy with Hillary. Then, add to that Super Tuesday and the sheer number of states that lean against him. It took him most of the campaign thus far to get her into a "tie" in Iowa. He had to focus (or elected to focus) so extensively there, that he hasn't been able to make inroads where he needed to, which is among southern AAs.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
If you look at the NBC/SM national poll, Clinton has gained support among blacks nationally since the last poll. That has to worry some at the Sanders camp.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
30% of South Republicans wish the Confederacy won the war.

And young people are just as racist as old people according to most polling.

America is just a super racist nation.
Click to expand...

Asking "are you glad the North won the war" in the South is a little like asking "are you glad Vietnam won the war" anywhere in America; there's going to be a large contingent of people who don't want to be on the losing side of a war regardless of whether they think it was right or wrong. My understanding is that there's a widely held belief in the South that slavery was going to end, but they wanted to end it on their own terms, not with the North telling them what to do. That might seem ludicrous, but there's a reason the phrase "war of Northern aggression" is still used without irony in some places, and it's not because those people still wish they could own slaves. The "believe whites are a superior race" question is more indicative of racist attitudes, and it didn't have nearly the support of the "I wish my ancestors had won this war 150 years ago" question.

But yes, there's still a shitload of racism in this country, across the board. It's not confined to Southerners who are salty about the outcome of the Civil War, and it seems unfair to paint it as such. Because every article I've seen about these poll results has the air of a New York pundit looking down his nose at "those silly backwards hicks down South" while ignoring that Stop and Frisk and Eric Garner are happening outside their window. Those who live in glass houses, you know.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Cesare Borgia said:
To be fair Hillary is promising some fairy tales as well.
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Such as?

I think the thing about Sanders' fairy tales is that I wouldn't want those policies in place even if there was a 100% Democratic Congress. Everything from a globally untested $15 minimum wage, to a massive overhaul of healthcare as-we-know-it, to a college for all act that will become an unfunded liability because the transaction tax doesn't work, to a break-up-the-banks mentality that is more focused on revenge on the financial system than sound economics and reform, to increasing taxes for everyone, not just the upper classes...

The revolution is ill-informed. I cannot wait till the Sanders campaign dies on March 1st.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Also, according to NBC News/SurveyMonkey, Bernie's getting destroyed by AA voters over 35, 73/16. It's only because of the young AA voters that he's not being completely destroyed.

Also, Hillary's keeping up with Bernie in the white vote. He's winning it by a few points, but no where near where she was in 2008. Keeping it close among white, but getting rekt by AA voters and losing Hispanic voters by even 5-10% is a damn steep hill for him to climb.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Kyosaiga said:
Per MSNBC

Among young African Americans 18-29

Clinton: 46%
Sanders: 33%

Damn, Hillary.
Click to expand...

Damn, is there any sort of evidence to explain why? I'm aware of all the theories, but I don't know which ones to believe in having the largest impact.

Black people having too much at stake to risk on bernie losing the general is the one that makes the most sense to me personally, but I do often see people act like president bernie would be outright worse for black people than president clinton, which makes no sense to me, unless that gun manufacturer immunity from liability vote is more important than i gave it credit for.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Ted Cruz is now hated by Republican voters in SC, 42/48 favorability, I think Trump is killing him.

New national poll:

Trump: 38
Cruz: 18
Rubio: 14
Carson: 8
Kasich: 7
Jeb: 4

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...-national-lead-heading-south-carolina-n519091

... So if the establishment pooled their votes together, they would be 13 points behind Trump.
Click to expand...

Everyone asks, "why doesn't candidate X attack Trump more," but every candidate that has directly confronted him has ended up bloodied.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Politico taking the approach to journalism that if you close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, and say something over and over and over again, it will eventually become true. What a bunch of hacks.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Kristoffer said:
Such as?
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Hillary talks about universal pre-K on her issues page, which is definitely not going to happen anytime soon. So I think it's fair to say that Hillary has some fairy tales. At the same time, in a situation like this I think it's very reasonable for candidates to have some long term aspirational goals. It's a conversation the democratic party needs to be having in fact, after finally making something happen on healthcare.

So I don't think that Hills is 100% pragmatic all the time and I hope nobody thinks she needs to be held to that standard to be critical of Bernie's nonsense.

Looking over where the two stand on policy, I'd say there are a few main differences.

  1. Hillary talks about a variety of smaller scale, practical issues like Alzheimer's, Autism, as well as ambitious ones. Bernie's entire policy portfolio is 100% rocket puppies and winning lotto tickets.
  2. Hillary actually has economic advisers so her plans hold up better to scrutiny would they actually be enacted.
  3. Hillary has a pretty diverse list of issues and is more "here and now." Bernie is mostly about re-doing 2009-2010 and is just a narrower set of policies.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
So, this has probably been discussed to death, but what if Obama were to appoint a retired Justice to SCOTUS? Stevens is still alive, right? A appointment of someone like that, recess or otherwise, would be an interesting play.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
It really doesn't matter much at this point. If Hillary wins in Nevada it might be a big story if it is close, but I don't think it will last because SC going to be up in a few days. Since SC is a completely different demo I don't think it matters what really happens in NV. In SC even if Bernie gains in among minorities , it only effects minorities in SC since Super Tuesday only a few days away. All it would say is that Bernie can good decently among a demo he was bad at, but that itself might not be enough and either way doesn't anymore. It would most likely be extremely unlikely to have the similar effect in other states if he doesn't have the similar infrastructure.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
EskimoJoe said:
So, this has probably been discussed to death, but what if Obama were to appoint a retired Justice to SCOTUS? Stevens is still alive, right? A appointment of someone like that, recess or otherwise, would be an interesting play.
Click to expand...

Politically, I think the only thing he has to do is make sure his appointment hasn't said anything too bad about the second amendment.

From there, basically anything will look good compared to the republicans refusing to approve anyone.
 
H

Holmes

Member
I don't mean to sound disrespectful but when Scalia died, the national mood was just like "whatever", but when RBG passes away (god forbid) I think there's going to be a lot of mourning.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
EskimoJoe said:
So, this has probably been discussed to death, but what if Obama were to appoint a retired Justice to SCOTUS? Stevens is still alive, right? A appointment of someone like that, recess or otherwise, would be an interesting play.
Click to expand...

I first read that suggestion in the comments section of Sam Wang's blog and fell in love with it. It allows the SC to complete its term with a full compliment, is the responsible thing to do, and allows the president to rise above the fray. All three of the living justices are Republican appointees and the fact that they have all served puts ANY GOP argument about quality to rest.

Souter should be Obama's pick.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Holmes said:
I don't mean to sound disrespectful but when Scalia died, the national mood was just like "whatever", but when RBG passes away (god forbid) I think there's going to be a lot of mourning.
Click to expand...

weird, I think the opposite is true. Wonder if that holds the same for our politics...
 
H

Holmes

Member
GuyKazama said:
weird, I think the opposite is true. Wonder if that holds the same for our politics...
Click to expand...
Maybe, but what I saw on social media (and I know that's in no way indicative of national mood) showed people outright happy he died, and very critical of his legacy, and the media did the whole "remembering his legacy" bit before quickly turning it into "Should Obama fight Republicans and appoint a successor? Are Republicans right in pre-emptively blocking Obama's nominee?"
 
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