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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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H

Holmes

Member
Bowdz said:
How's The Butcher of Benghazi doing at the forum? How'd the Bernisaurus Rex do?
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Alright. Only caught Sanders' second half but apparently the first half wasn't great. Hillary's good but she's a bit too on fire right now. I think she should tone it down a bit. And the Sanders supporter nearly breaking down about her releasing the transcripts was kind of funny.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yoda said:
She "flip flopped" on marriage equality, or as she says, she evolved. Regardless what you call it, she only changed her view when the public sentiment made the stance easy to subscribe too.

So he's questioning her sincerity on regulating Wall St. and in order to trust her on said issue the voter wants to know how she talks to the investment banking elite behind close doors, especially when she's getting paid an egregiously large speaking fee.
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So because she made the exact same shift every other democrat did, including Bernie, now she can't be trusted on any issue? yea ok
 
S

SenorArdilla

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
Can we not do this every time.

Its so damn wrong.
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Let me rephrase this.

Imagine that you are out eating Chinese food with your friend who always uses chopsticks. Even though the restaurant you're at provides forks & spoons as well, your friend will always snark if your choice in utensils aren't chopsticks. But hey, chopsticks aren't for everyone.

Using the chopsticks satisfies your friend and makes him give you this huge, shit-eating grin as though he managed to tame some uncultured wildman. You eat and he doesn't make a fuss outside of the initial smug face.

Using the fork & spoon causes your friend to chime in about how you're disrespecting the Chinese food by not eating it with chopsticks. Your friend makes the most punchable face possible and looks at you like he's a failed parent. You still get to eat.

Using your hands makes a huge mess. Why did you try eating this stuff with your fingers? Oh god. It got on your shirt. Your friend shakes his head disapprovingly.
 
K

Kyosaiga

Banned
I don't think people who are holding Clinton's evolution on gay marriage really REALLY don't know how much of a political liability it was in the 90s and early 00s.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
B-Dubs said:
So because she made the exact same shift every other democrat did, including Bernie, now she can't be trusted on any issue? yea ok
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No, Bernie was on the correct side of LBGT LONG BEFORE it was an easy switch.

From the 1970s
letter.png
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yoda said:
No, Bernie was on the correct side of LBGT LONG BEFORE it was an easy switch.

From the 1970s
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Back in the 2000's when asked if Vermont should legalize gay marriage, when they were originally considering it, Bernie said no.

When Hillary was the first lady she was the first first lady to march in a gay pride parade.

They both had the evolution, neither one is more pure than the other.
 
A

Armaros

Member
Yoda said:
No, Bernie was on the correct side of LBGT LONG BEFORE it was an easy switch.

From the 1970s
letter.png
Click to expand...

And yet didn't do anything legislatively positive towards same sex marriage until the 2000s? Even as of 2006, he only was in favor for civil unions. (fighting for same sex marriage is too decisive in his words) But fighting for his current platform (which he has proudly stated his entire political career) is not


http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
HSAs are 100 worse than going back to where we were before ACA. One incident--boom. Money is gone.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Black Mamba said:
holy shit Trump was asked what he'd replace Obamacare with.

His answer is HSAs and allowing buying across state lines.

Literally the GOP talking points the last 10 years, sans tort reform.
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What about all the shit he said in the past about universal healthcare without single payer? So much for that.
 
J

Jay-Hova

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Back in the 2000's when asked if Vermont should legalize gay marriage, when they were originally considering it, Bernie said no.

When Hillary was the first lady she was the first first lady to march in a gay pride parade.

They both had the evolution, neither one is more pure than the other.
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I'd say Bernie is purer and definitely did more to further the cause, which isn't saying that he's perfect btw, he has his issues with it as well.
I don't believe it's right to criticize Hilary for her votes in the sense that it's bad she changed views, but I do think it's right to compare which candidate has been closer to right longer and Bernie has her beat on that in my view.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
B-Dubs said:
Back in the 2000's when asked if Vermont should legalize gay marriage, when they were originally considering it, Bernie said no.

When Hillary was the first lady she was the first first lady to march in a gay pride parade.

They both had the evolution, neither one is more pure than the other.
Click to expand...

Going to disagree. His response wasn't I "Don't agree with gay marriage, thus civil unions..." which was Hillary's position. It's a cop-out answer, first being "Vermont can't do that right now" and second being "it's a state issue" is a black-mark, but he still voted against DOMA, and advocated for LBGT rights when there was no political upside to do so.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Trump: I could have said that. If i did, i may have meant it. But, maybe not. I say what i mean. Sometimes, at least. Other times, i don’t.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yoda said:
Going to disagree. His response wasn't I "Don't agree with gay marriage, thus civil unions..." which was Hillary's position. It's a cop-out answer, first being "Vermont can't do that right now" and second being "it's a state issue" is a black-mark, but he still voted against DOMA, and advocated for LBGT rights when there was no political upside to do so.
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HE HAD THE EXACT SAME VIEW AS HER ON CIVIL UNIONS

The exact same thing. You can't hand wave that shit.
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
Yoda said:
Going to disagree. His response wasn't I "Don't agree with gay marriage, thus civil unions..." which was Hillary's position. It's a cop-out answer, first being "Vermont can't do that right now" and second being "it's a state issue" is a black-mark, but he still voted against DOMA, and advocated for LBGT rights when there was no political upside to do so.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty nuanced argument and not very compelling. They had the same view on civil unions.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Yoda said:
Going to disagree. His response wasn't I "Don't agree with gay marriage, thus civil unions..." which was Hillary's position. It's a cop-out answer, first being "Vermont can't do that right now" and second being "it's a state issue" is a black-mark, but he still voted against DOMA, and advocated for LBGT rights when there was no political upside to do so.
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I'm going to need to see some receipts regarding Bernie advocating for LGBT rights in a way that actually made an impact. I can point to a plethora of things Hillary did at State that made things better for LGBT people at home and abroad.

Actually, this is a big issue I have with Bernie on the whole. He's supposedly so amazing on so many issues, but he has absolutely nothing to show for it. He's been in Congress for 25 years, and yet nothing tangible has resulted from his rightness on everything.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
adam387 said:
I'm going to need to see some receipts regarding Bernie advocating for LGBT rights in a way that actually made an impact. I can point to a plethora of things Hillary did at State that made things better for LGBT people at home and abroad.

Actually, this is a big issue I have with Bernie on the whole. He's supposedly so amazing on so many issues, but he has absolutely nothing to show for it. He's been in Congress for 25 years, and yet nothing tangible has resulted from his rightness on everything.
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I didn't claim he was Harvey Milk, and you'll notice I was articulating how the sincerity question (investment banking speeches) was linked to issue of LBGT equality evolution. He took positions which could ONLY hurt him in the polls on moral grounds. That isn't very common in our political system.

B-Dubs said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-gay-marriage_us_569fcc4de4b0a7026bf9e06f

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/03/sanders-evolving-and-wishy-washy-stance-on-same-sex-marriage/
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The Huffington Post article shows he dodged (which I pointed out) it doesn't have him saying: "I believe marriage is between one man and on woman", I can't use the post WaPo link because I'm capped on my free browsing. Is there a mirror?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Yoda said:
I'll happily admit I'm misinformed, link please.
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Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told the Associated Press that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”) At the time, he also opposed a federal anti-gay-marriage amendment—but so did his Republican opponent for the Senate seat, Richard Tarrant, who also supported civil unions. With a wide lead in the polls and little at stake, Sanders declined to differentiate himself from his opponent by taking the lead on gay rights.
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/...riage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html
 
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