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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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If Sanders gets the nom Democrats will forget about a lot of things when it comes time to staff the White House. Lets be realistic here.
A lot of politicos wouldn't want to be part of what might be a Jimmy Carter 2.0 White House. Staffed by outsiders, ideologically pure, naive, one-term, etc.

Also love that Carson is turning his flight to FL into some kind of positive bootstraps thing

"Well, see, that's not the way I grew up. I grew to preserve what I have. I don't just throw something in the garbage and buy a new suit. Maybe some people grew up that way," he mused. "I don't, and that's not the way I would run the government either."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/ben-carson-florida-trip-clothes-218820#ixzz3zKCStG7r

I'm going to pay $1000 on airfare, so I don't have to buy a new $500 suit.

I didn't know he was traveling out of a backpack. He doesn't have a change of clothing? Does he only have one suit? Is he Ralph Nader?
 
Nah they would simply ignore it ha.

It's amazing that conservatives can't even say "yea of course things are better now than when we were losing 800k jobs a month but that's a major bar of success, and furthermore blah blah blah." Instead they go off the deep end.

You'll never explain seasonable employment/hiring or progressive tax rates to these people.

I keep trying to explain that they seasonally adjust so that we don't have a glorious economic ascendance every December followed by the Great Depression every January, but they refuse to get it.

I'm sure they'll come to understand seasonal adjustments when we have our next Republican president.
 
Look forward to reading Maddow's interview in Playboy (SFW excerpt from another site).

On Bernie:

“He gets tens of thousands of people to turn out, but that sort of economic populism is a tough sell. The diagnosis is right; the cure isn’t easy. My prediction for Bernie: populist hero forever but hard to imagine him still being there at the convention.”

On Clinton:

“She told me to my face that she’s not as hawkish as people think she is and she won’t be a more aggressive commander-in-chief, but I don’t believe her.”
 

Kyosaiga

Banned
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie signed into law on Thursday legislation that critics say sells out the state's water supply and democratic process for private profits.

The Water Infrastructure Protection Act, which purportedly aims to address aging infrastructure , allows for fast-tracking of sales of municipal water systems to private entities.

Among the sponsors of the measure, which passed the state legislature in December, was Senator Joe Kyrillos (R-Monmouth), who stated Thursday: "We recognize that there are times when private entities might be most capable of operating, maintaining and upgrading drinking water and sanitary wastewater systems,” and keeps "the public’s ability to be part of the process."

Quite the opposite, according to the law's critics.

"Governor Christie has sided with private water companies over our water supply," stated Jeff Tittel, Director of the New Jersey Sierra Club. "This law will raise rates, hurt consumers and businesses."

"Residents will not be able to decide the fate of their water supply unless the petition to sell or lease is signed by 15% of voters in the area. This is undemocratic, takes away public oversight and input, and allows deregulation of our water protection and rates. Governor Christie has now allowed for private water companies to reap massive amount of profit at the expense of residents and their water supply," Tittel said.

Tittel added that water privatization's track record shows it's a no-win situation for the public.

"Privatization is one of the single biggest threats to clean water and public health. Privatization often leads to higher rates for services and worsen water quality. Studies have shown that when public services are privatized, corporate profits replace meeting the needs of consumers and the environment," he said.

"Rate payers and tax payers have spent billions of dollars to build these water systems. Now companies are going to take over our public water supply for profits rather than work for the public they are supposed to serve. We will end up seeing higher costs for the services, problems at facilities, and tax payers paying the bill," he added.

You guys ready for another Flint?!
 
This was a great listen and i encourage others to give it a try. Thanks for linking.
Can someone summarize it. I don't have an hour and a half.

The begining really was pretty superficial and full of generalizations and cherry picking though. Would be interested if it changed.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Can someone summarize it. I don't have an hour and a half.

The begining really was pretty superficial and full of generalizations and cherry picking though. Would be interested if it changed.

bernie is a domineering machine, information is gassing through america at an astonishing rate. 2016 is not looking good for hillary, or her corrupt financiers.
 
I would like explanations of why MMT isn't complete or would be considered lacking. What's your OP gonna be about? Gotta kick off the topic with something ...

I mean, the thread would hopefully accept all schools of thought. I just wouldn't be cosigning anything heterodox like that.

I'd probably do a run down of common economics arguments on gaf, and what the economic consensus is on all of them.

Like that carbon tax thread was killer, man. Cap and trade is not nearly as efficient or as effective as a carbon tax, yet we have liberals on GAF arguing against it.

That shit's not good economics.
 
Christie needs to be all over Rubio like a dog in heat, slower and all.


I love the subtle digs at Rubio in Jeb's ad. That power walking and running, you couldn't do THAT in boots.
 

Overlee

Member
people are starving, hurting, dying. the era of incremental change is over. it's hillary's job to sway the naysayers, not bernie.

It's amazing that in an age where we can fact check anything on the internet, that politicians still think we're stupid and won't question what they say. An educated voter is the DNC and RNC worst nightmare.


This is why you'll keep failing.

Keep yelling at that cloud.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
But all of those people aren't real candidates and will probably lose in races they shouldn't be focusing on. It's good for someone to run in Nevada's 4th who is a proven progressive, but Lucy Flores is already kind of a political loser after running statewide in 2014 in what was never going to be a race she could win.

The only person in this article who's actually positioned themselves well and in an ability to actually be competitive is Zephyr Teachout, because she's campaigning the smart way, and isn't trying to run for Senate or trying to run for a seat that already is bottlenecked with a million Democrats running.

The smart way to run for office for these people would be to attack themselves to light or regular Blue seats where there's someone who is retiring, and try to get on board with the local Democratic party or influential party leaders to position themselves as a viable candidate. That's how you take the party to the left. You don't jump to Senator.

omg ivy you are so smart and wise in your assessment of what Zephyr Teachout is doing right!!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...lections-Live-Digest-2-5#update-1454709878000

NY-19: In a move that seems to cut against type, Democrat Zephyr Teachout just earned an endorsement from Rep. Shaun Maloney, who represents a district next door to the one she's seeking. Maloney is one of the more moderate members of the Democratic caucus and has generally been quite friendly toward Wall Street; Teachout, on the other hand, is an outspoken progressive who has railed against the corrupting influence of big money in politics.

But the two do share something in common: Both have lost statewide campaigns to now-Gov. Andrew Cuomo. Cuomo handily won the 2006 Democratic primary for attorney general, a race in which Maloney took just 9 percent. Teachout fared better in her 2014 challenge to Cuomo in that year's gubernatorial primary, losing 63-33. Is this really the tie that binds? Who knows, but whatever the reason, Teachout will take it, since she has to get by Livingston Town Councilman Will Yandik for the Democratic nomination before she can even think about the general election in this open swing seat.
 
It's amazing that in an age where we can fact check anything on the internet, that politicians still think we're stupid and won't question what they say. An educated voter is the DNC and RNC worst nightmare.

... More educated voters are more strongly partisan....

An alert, informed electorate is considered vital to a robust democracy, and the main path to that electorate includes formal education. The educated citizen is politically attentive, knowledgeable, and participatory, and the uneducated citizen is not. However, this fact conceals a less favorable effect of education. Educated citizens possess the cognitive skills to reject facts inconsistent with prior dispositions. And educated citizens are among the most invested partisans. Thus education is indispensable for an ideal democratic citizen, but that same education can create a resistant, insular democratic participant. We examine this duality across several prominent empirical cases where political facts are in dispute and employ goal-oriented information processing theory to generate hypotheses. In each case, we find that the most educated partisans are furthest apart in their factual understanding. Our primary concern resides with the inability of education to overcome powerful partisan motives; education intensifies those motives.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/polp.12098/abstract
 
I was going to say more "informed" voters tend to be dogmatical and rigid in thinking. Didn't know there was research.

Confirmation bias is really bad with educated people.

I mean, Ben Carson is the most educated person running for president and maybe the best brain surgeon in the world, and he's dumb as shit when it comes to any social issue.
 
Iowa Democratic Party officials have found errors in the its caucus results amid a review, according to The Des Moines Register.

State party officials confirmed to the Register on Friday that the final tally is being altered as discrepancies have been found.

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton was declared the winner after Monday night’s caucuses, defeating rival Bernie Sanders by just 0.2 percentage points.

"Both the Sanders and Clinton campaigns have flagged a very small number of concerns for us, and we are looking at them all on a case-by-case basis," Iowa Democratic Party spokesman Sam Lau said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...rrors-found-in-iowa-democratic-caucus-results

Of course, everything I read on it is "HILLARY CHEATED I KNEW IT". Sites like TheHill are becoming no different than Breitbart.
 
Can someone summarize it. I don't have an hour and a half.

The begining really was pretty superficial and full of generalizations and cherry picking though. Would be interested if it changed.
Summary - Bernie sanders is amazing for taking on the mantle of socialist instead of running from it, even more amazing because he is giving hillary a real battle for the nomination on the strength of his ideals rather than clinton's stature in the party, and that a massive majority of young democrats support his ideas, and they are a hint at where the future of the democrat party is going, since this will likely be the last time a baby boomer wins the presidency.
 

damisa

Member
It's amazing that in an age where we can fact check anything on the internet, that politicians still think we're stupid and won't question what they say. An educated voter is the DNC and RNC worst nightmare.




Keep yelling at that cloud.

In Iowa, Hillary won college graduates 51-44 and Bernie won people without college degrees. But don't let facts get in your way of insulting people
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I mean, the thread would hopefully accept all schools of thought. I just wouldn't be cosigning anything heterodox like that.

I'd probably do a run down of common economics arguments on gaf, and what the economic consensus is on all of them.

Like that carbon tax thread was killer, man. Cap and trade is not nearly as efficient or as effective as a carbon tax, yet we have liberals on GAF arguing against it.

That shit's not good economics.

I think cap and trade versus carbon tax is actually pretty contestable and is so even in econ circles. Say we know that X amount of CO2 is too much. With cap and trade, you can just sell that much allowance. With the Pigouvian method, you have to estimate exactly what level of carbon tax leads to what reduction, which is relatively difficult especially in a dynamic market like the energy market.
 
Summary - Bernie sanders is amazing for taking on the mantle of socialist instead of running from it, even more amazing because he is giving hillary a real battle for the nomination on the strength of his ideals rather than clinton's stature in the party, and that a massive majority of young democrats support his ideas, and they are a hint at where the future of the democrat party is going, since this will likely be the last time a baby boomer wins the presidency.
So him usuing socialist is the amazing part?Because young people have always liked idealists and things like free college and health care.

I think the lack of stigma against socialism isn't so much the popularity of the idea but the republicans wrapping themselves so tighly in the garb of capitalism, people who reject their ideas reject the label and move towards something else. I dont see any polling that shows and shift towards "socialism" in any real sense. Gallap has shown Americans have pretty constantly supported third way/mixed economic thinking. Wolff is diluding himself if he thinks Sanders represents anything but a pejorative label losing its power not a shift in ideology.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Just as a heads up, we can roughly work backwards from the Iowa caucus and the exit polls (which are much more accurate than prior polls because they are definitely selecting the right sample and only have MoE issues to worry about) to see who was most accurate. We know from the exit poll people who decided in the last day split 46/46 between Clinton and Sanders, so they had no impact in changing the Clinton/Sanders balance. About 10% decided in the final few days of the poll, so they should have shown as undecided to pollsters. Martin O'Malley added about 1.8% to Sander's score and 1.3% to Clinton's after redistribution. Therefore, a perfectly accurate pollster would have shown on the 31st January Clinton 45, Sanders 43, O'Malley 3, Undecided 10.

This made Selzer, quite significantly, the most accurate pollster (within the MoE on all accounts), then NBC/WSJ/Marist in close pursuit. In the middle ground was Quinnipiac, then Monmouth University, then ARG. PPP (D) and CNN/WMUR performed quite poorly, and finally Gravis and Emerson were absolutely terrible and should really just be ignored from now on.

So, no, Quinnipiac is not a terrible pollster. It has a good track record both from prior elections and performed reasonably well in Iowa. It's not perfect - it seems to have a structural bias in favour of Sanders by ~ +4 points in Iowa, although we can't guarantee it will persist at 4 points in demographically different places that require alternative weighting - but it's above the average pollster so far this cycle, certainly. This one is probably an outlier, yes, but it's an outlier in the literal sense of the 5% of the time you get a sample outside the MoE, not an outlier as in "Quinnipiac sucks and can be ignored".

For what it is worth, PPP (D) had about a +5 structural advantage in Clinton's favour, so if you want to do what 538 did in 2012 and actually correct for pollster biases rather than just weighting them differently but adding them up without accounting for anything else like they're doing now, then Quinnipiac's 44-42 is roughly equivalent to 48-38, and PPP (D)'s is roughly equivalent to 48-37, so... rather close and where I imagine the race is at right now. In other words, when you adjust for how they performed in the past, they actually show very similar results. That's reasonable movement for Sanders, and I think more will come as the news percolates, but not really sufficient to be a real challenger; unless New Hampshire shakes up the news cycle further.

Moving on from Quinnipiac to New Hampshire, then: Sanders needs to win at least 54.1% of the vote. New Hampshire awards 12 delegates to each of the two congressional districts, split proportionally according to share of the vote in each. If Sanders won 54-46 exactly in both districts, he and Clinton would still get 12 delegates each because 0.54*12=6.4 which would round down (and conversely round up for Clinton) to 6 each. If he got below 54.1% in both, then it's over right now, we all go home.

This is unlikely, though, and I think a better test is if he can get 62.6% or above in at least one district. If he can take 62.6% to Clinton 37.4% in one of the districts, then he gets 15 delegates to Clinton's 9, and it would generate other big news burst that can hopefully push him further on again; it would be the sign that his momentum is still rolling. If he takes 62.6% to 37.4% in both, then that's big news and indicates he will be approaching competitiveness nationally. If he doesn't breach this in either district, then it'll be a relatively limp 14-10 win (or even 13-11 if he falls under 54.1% in one of them).

tl:dr 16-8 great, 15-9 great, 14-10 okay, 13-11 bad, 12-12 it's all over, 11-13 adam probably explodes.
 
I would say that it's not a certainty that current Bernie Sanders fans don't turn into Dixiecrats as they get promoted at work.

Young men like Socialism, but they also think sexism doesn't exist anymore and are just as racist as their parents and are more supportive of banning all abortions than their parents. Economic issues may be their priority right now, but who knows how economic vs. social issues as their priority will progress as their careers evolve.

Their atheism may keep them away from the Republican party though.

It's one of those issues when there's a trend currently, but that trend is not inevitable because actors can change things. Like how "demographic apocalypse" will probably be avoided by Republicans now that East Asians are "becoming white" like the Irish and Jews became white in the past and how mixed white and non-white Hispanic children are identifying as white.
 
It's amazing that in an age where we can fact check anything on the internet, that politicians still think we're stupid and won't question what they say. An educated voter is the DNC and RNC worst nightmare.




Keep yelling at that cloud.

It really is amazing that anyone can go on the Internet, read something on a blog, and then feel completed educated on a subject.

Amazing.
 

Overlee

Member
... More educated voters are more strongly partisan....



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/polp.12098/abstract


There's nothing wrong with being partisan. I think America would be better off having more partisan parties. The two-party system stymies and slows non-conventional thought. I'd love if our elected government better reflected all the ideas we have. A Labor party, a BLM party, Big-Pregnancy (for you) etc.

Research also shows those more involved in politics (on every level) show a higher degree of "post-materialism" that is "we are seeing a shift away from procuring material goods and physical security and moving towards more self expression, sexual freedom and interpersonal relationships."

I'm okay with that. Even if people become more stubborn.
 
I think cap and trade versus carbon tax is actually pretty contestable and is so even in econ circles. Say we know that X amount of CO2 is too much. With cap and trade, you can just sell that much allowance. With the Pigouvian method, you have to estimate exactly what level of carbon tax leads to what reduction, which is relatively difficult especially in a dynamic market like the energy market.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't phrase it as decided.

I strongly fall on the carbon tax side of that debate though.
 

Overlee

Member
In Iowa, Hillary won college graduates 51-44 and Bernie won people without college degrees. But don't let facts get in your way of insulting people

You know our public education system actively punishes students from an early age that "rock the boat" right?

We're told not to ask too many questions. Those under 30 don't care.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Post-materialism extends along the axis, though - it means people who used to care about low taxes first and banning abortion second now care more about abortion. Post-materialism doesn't mean more liberal, it just means politics is fought more along social lines than economic ones.
 

Overlee

Member
Post-materialism extends along the axis, though - it means people who used to care about low taxes first and banning abortion second now care more about abortion. Post-materialism doesn't mean more liberal, it just means politics is fought more along social lines than economic ones.


That's correct. But wouldn't social influence push voters towards more liberal policy which tends to align with the environment, social justice, etc.?
 

damisa

Member
You know our public education system actively punishes students from an early age that "rock the boat" right?

We're told not to ask too many questions. Those under 30 don't care.

Maybe those under 30 should start asking questions like "How will you pass this stuff?", "How will you pay for it?", and "Why is your foreign policy knowledge so awful?"
 
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