Support NeoGAF

[Veritigo_X]

Team Rubio is going all in on a Florida win. Not like they've got another choice though.

Buying Rubio 'No' on PredictIt now. I'll take that to the bank, thanks.

Edit: Aw man, market isn't open yet

 

[VendettaRed07]

So that means the Founding Fathers were dirty Establishment for forming a system of government that requires slow change.

Well to be fair the founding fathers designed a system that was a conservative reaction towards preventing too much democracy. Protecting the country against the "demon of popular will" was more their goal than a democratic revolution that empowered the common people.

Some people hate that and others don't. I often hear though from south Americans at least that they feel their countries suffer from too much populism, and one reason why Chile does better than most is because they have more protections like the American system has in place. But that's just my vague understanding.

 

[Holmes]

TX Monmouth

Cruz 38
Trump 23
Rubio 21

Hillary 64
Bernie 30

http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32...1087/fd1752af-cc7a-4b4c-9125-1d26f351cc4a.pdf

 

[dramatis]

Donald Trump Taps Foreign Work Force for His Florida Club [NYTimes]

Donald J. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach describes itself as “one of the most highly regarded private clubs in the world,” and it is not just the very-well-to-do who want to get in.

Since 2010, nearly 300 United States residents have applied or been referred for jobs as waiters, waitresses, cooks and housekeepers there. But according to federal records, only 17 have been hired.

In all but a handful of cases, Mar-a-Lago sought to fill the jobs with hundreds of foreign guest workers from Romania and other countries.

In his quest for the Republican presidential nomination, Mr. Trump has stoked his crowds by promising to bring back jobs that have been snatched by illegal immigrants or outsourced by corporations, and voters worried about immigration have been his strongest backers.

But he has also pursued more than 500 visas for foreign workers at Mar-a-Lago since 2010, according to the United States Department of Labor, while hundreds of domestic applicants failed to get the same jobs.

Some ammo for the Rubio tonight?

 

[NeoXChaos]

Bernie is getting crushed in the south precisely because he not spending a dime there.

 

[Angry Fork]

So that means the Founding Fathers were dirty Establishment for forming a system of government that requires slow change.

Yes. The constitution was initially designed for elite's and to preserve capitalism and racism. Our founding fathers were generally terrible compared to a country like France, with some exceptions.

Let's say the establishment is finished, but someone as far-right as Trump or Cruz gets into office and has the power to do basically whatever rash shit comes to their mind. Would that be good for the people?

It would be good for the people who support him. A far left coalition would then fight to acquire power from them, and would eventually win, as it should be. This struggle is far superior to what we have now.

...what? No, the point of the slow system is so that radicals period can't get things done because the chance of a "good" radical is not worth the risk of a "bad" radical getting in

Honest question for you: if the election was purely probabilistic and it came down to a 50% chance that a candidate you support (not even Bernie, someone you are genuinely behind) wins and a 50% chance someone like Donald Trump wins, would you take those odds? Would you flip that coin?

Absolutely, all the time. That's not what's happening here though since Trump will be the nominee vs. a right wing Hillary, so we have 2 right-wing options. Of course I'd rather have a genuinely left option vs. a right option.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Something will have to give, the political gridlock cannot last forever

watch it

 

[Veritigo_X]

It would be good for the people who support him. A far left coalition would then fight to acquire power from them, and would eventually win, as it should be. This struggle is far superior to what we have now.

This seems to ignore the people that would be affected by a far right president. But ya gotta break a few eggs, right?

 

[The Technomancer]

It would be good for the people who support him. A far left coalition would then fight to acquire power from them, and would eventually win, as it should be. This struggle is far superior to what we have now.

No. Its not. People's goddamn lives would be affected by a Cruz presidency, and that damage can't just be "fixed" when the "right people" seize power. This is not a goddamn game of Civilization

 

[Holmes]

Bernie is getting crushed in the south precisely because he not spending a dime there.

And it's why Clinton is, so she can run up the score and get as many delegates as she can. This isn't the electoral college, it's a primary and the margins matter.

 

[Armaros]

This seems to ignore the people that would be affected by a far right president. But ya gotta break a few eggs, right?

Its code speak for "I have the privilege to be able to easily weather a bad president for me to gamble"

 

[Angry Fork]

This seems to ignore the people that would be affected by a far right president. But ya gotta break a few eggs, right?

Clinton and Obama have broken lots and lots of eggs.

No. Its not. People's goddamn lives would be affected by a Cruz presidency, and that damage can't just be "fixed" when the "right people" seize power. This is not a goddamn game of Civilization

I agree that's why I don't want someone like Hillary who would be very bad for low income working people, the unemployed, and students.

 

[NeoXChaos]

we are about ready for OT 2. Who is making it?

 

[Macho Madness]

This is the only time I'll post about this but when I see DailyKos as the source... lmao

 

[pigeon]

Yes. The constitution was initially designed for elite's and to preserve capitalism and racism. Our founding fathers were generally terrible compared to a country like France, with some exceptions.

All governments were designed to preserve the power of the people creating the government. That's actually step one in doing anything in government -- your country can't collapse into statelessness. It would make it impossible to do any of the other things you think the government should be doing.

It would be good for the people who support him. A far left coalition would then fight to acquire power from them, and would eventually win, as it should be. This struggle is far superior to what we have now.

Ignoring the whole "accelerationism is immoral and fascist" angle of this discussion, why do you think this would happen?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Yeah, it's pretty slow when these wild liberals don't vote in the midterms

But of course they don't deserve half the blame

Oh, no, they totally deserve some of the blame. It's the idea that it's solely on them to vote for the Democrats even if the Democrats offer them a Box of Nothing is where I get grumpy.

 

[Armaros]

This is the only time I'll post about this but when I see DailyKos as the source... lmao

The other articles posted within are even more lol worthy. lol and facepalm worthy.

 

[Teggy]

This is my answer when people ask if we x, y or z means we should be worried about Trump. HELL YES. I don't care if the data or reality doesn't support it. Because the only way to assure that Trump doesn't get into office is to keep people worried about him and get them to do everything possible to get out the vote.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Clinton and Obama have broken lots and lots of eggs.

Nice deflection without actually reflecting on what you're proposing. Empathy is hard tho.

 

[The Technomancer]

I agree that's why I don't want someone like Hillary who would be very bad for low income working people, the unemployed, and students.

So like I said, if you have a chance to flip a coin, and the results determine weather your ideal candidate or the candidate you despise gets to achieve power, do you flip that coin? Are those odds worth it to you?

 

[pigeon]

Guys, the solution to "posting in PoliGAF to complain about OT is bad" is not "let's subtweet about OT in PoliGAF." Go subtweet on your subtweeters. Or just go post in those threads and say they're stupid, like, what's the danger?

 

[Macho Madness]

Guys, the solution to "posting in PoliGAF to complain about OT is bad" is not "let's subtweet about OT in PoliGAF." Go subtweet on your subtweeters. Or just go post in those threads and say they're stupid, like, what's the danger?

It's super aggressive today is all.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

IDK, deporting 11 million people and terrorizing Muslims for four years in exchange for getting single-payer later on doesn't seem like a good trade off to me.

 

[RustyNails]

Clinton and Obama have broken lots and lots of eggs.

Which ones? Are you ok with a Cruz presidency and Congress that passes a law making same sex marriage illegal? Carpetbombing Syria until the desert glows? What kind of eggs are we talking about here?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Which ones? Are you ok with a Cruz presidency and Congress that passes a law making same sex marriage illegal? Carpetbombing Syria until the desert glows? What kind of eggs are we talking about here?

I think that Cruz would actually be able to second one happen even in the current system (along with his flat tax), but others, yes, he would be limited.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

TPM...err select better thumbnail image please.

 

[Officerrob]

Todd Harris, Rubio advisor:

Todd Harris ‏@dtoddharris 27m27 minutes ago
Media needs to chill. The FL Q poll #'s are way wrong. We are going to win Florida. Period. Take it to the bank.

 

[Elaugaufein]

All governments were designed to preserve the power of the people creating the government. That's actually step one in doing anything in government -- your country can't collapse into statelessness. It would make it impossible to do any of the other things you think the government should be doing.



Ignoring the whole "accelerationism is immoral and fascist" angle of this discussion, why do you think this would happen?

Okay I can see the moral argument against acceleration-ism but what's the argument that it's fascist ?

I mean there's also an argument to be made that acceleration-ism is more moral than the alternative in some circumstances: Assume you're losing: Your options are to fight a slowly losing war in which suffering steadily increases every year until the place is effectively burned down or to burn the place down and start over Which is more moral ? (No, for the record , I don't think there's any actual functioning Democracy on the planet at the moment that meets this criteria, I'm just pointing out that "burning the place down" can actually minimize net suffering.)

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Todd Harris, Rubio advisor:

Todd Harris ‏@dtoddharris 27m27 minutes ago
Media needs to chill. The FL Q poll #'s are way wrong. We are going to win Florida. Period. Take it to the bank.

The worst argument to make is, "Hey, I won my home state". So I should be the nominee.

Though the 99 delegates help I guess,.

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean there's also an argument to be made that acceleration-ism is more moral than the alternative in some circumstances: Assume you're losing: Your options are to fight a slowly losing war in which suffering steadily increases every year until the place is effectively burned down or to burn the place down and start over Which is more moral ?

This argument always strikes me as flawed because there's no guarantee that "starting over" actually goes the way you want it to. Its very possible (and I would even argue likely) that you burn it down, start it over, and discover that what you're able to build is still pretty flawed and maybe you burned it all down for marginal, if any, gain

That's not to sound too critical of you or anything, I know we're just talking, but its what pisses me off the most about people in the various anarcho-_____ist groups who think that if we can just start over this time we'll get it right

 

[Angry Fork]

All governments were designed to preserve the power of the people creating the government. That's actually step one in doing anything in government -- your country can't collapse into statelessness. It would make it impossible to do any of the other things you think the government should be doing.

What I meant was just how they treat citizens and the lack of respect for their wants/needs. The tea party has been pretty successful at changing this, I just want there to be a left wing version of it.

Ignoring the whole "accelerationism is immoral and fascist" angle of this discussion, why do you think this would happen?

You mean why I think the left would win? It generally always has throughout history with some right wing periods here and there but we're more progressive now than 100 years ago because the left always wins over time.

Obviously that doesn't mean we shouldn't be fighting since there's always problems but it's moderates/liberals who prevent more rapid changes from happening. The right wing will always exist and be a predictable enemy, but we don't have to tolerate the supposedly sympathetic middle-ground people who end up accomplishing what the right wants.

So like I said, if you have a chance to flip a coin, and the results determine weather your ideal candidate or the candidate you despise gets to achieve power, do you flip that coin? Are those odds worth it to you?

Yes. Those odds are worse right now though at 0% for a left wing (or even center-left) option if it's Hillary vs. Trump.

 

[PBY]

Todd Harris, Rubio advisor:

Todd Harris ‏@dtoddharris 27m27 minutes ago
Media needs to chill. The FL Q poll #'s are way wrong. We are going to win Florida. Period. Take it to the bank.

I kind of believe this.

On one hand, I know he has to say SOMETHING. But this is really strong, I wonder if they do have better data.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yes. Those odds are worse right now though at 0% for a left wing (or even center-left) option if it's Hillary vs. Trump.

But the odds of Trump winning are also, by all actual measures, pretty low. That's the dilemma I'm trying to present to you: you can have your ideal candidate, but at the risk of your worst nightmare, when the current reality is that neither is actually likely.

 

[jtb]

who's the "we" in the "we're more progressive now than 100 years ago"?

 

[XenodudeX]

Todd Harris, Rubio advisor:

Todd Harris ‏@dtoddharris 27m27 minutes ago
Media needs to chill. The FL Q poll #'s are way wrong. We are going to win Florida. Period. Take it to the bank.

So every poll released for Florida is wrong then? Ok.

 

[Maledict]

The idea that Hilary Clinton, who voted 93% of the time with Sander's, isn't even centre left is actually quite insulting, and definitely very stupid.

 

[Elaugaufein]

This argument always strikes me as flawed because there's no guarantee that "starting over" actually goes the way you want it to. Its very possible (and I would even argue likely) that you burn it down, start it over, and discover that what you're able to build is still pretty flawed and maybe you burned it all down for marginal, if any, gain

That's not to sound too critical of you or anything, I know we're just talking, but its what pisses me off the most about people in the various anarcho-_____ist groups who think that if we can just start over this time we'll get it right

I'm pretty sure we're never going to get it right because the solution to the problem always invokes the problem.

Some people wish to do bad things.
We should create a system to do something about them.
We need people for the system to function. So we draw them from the population.(which includes people who want to do bad things)

Even ignoring that creating systematically powerful positions will attract people who wish to do bad things disproportionality it's not exactly a promising start.

All you can do is the best you can and work with that. Unless you can create the equivalent of Immortal Perfect Benevolent Dictator in which case you should do that.

My issue with a lot of those groups is that they either a) fail to create a level playing field in the first place (anarcho-capitalists are particularly guilty of this) or b) fail to consider that power is an unstable equilibrium (since power can be used to accrue more power) or c) both.

 

[VRMN]

The idea that Hilary Clinton, who voted 93% of the time with Sander's, isn't even centre left is actually quite insulting, and definitely very stupid.

This has been driving me nuts too.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Wish I didn't have to film tonight, was looking forward to seeing seeing Trump trump the field.

 

[Crocodile]

Guys, the solution to "posting in PoliGAF to complain about OT is bad" is not "let's subtweet about OT in PoliGAF." Go subtweet on your subtweeters. Or just go post in those threads and say they're stupid, like, what's the danger?

I agree that bringing that stuff in here is not useful but I can kind of understand why people might want to vent or be exasperated. There's a difference between people having different opinions all backed up with valid evidence and points, its another when one side, a few people on one side, both sides, etc. clearly have no idea what they are talking about. At that point it becomes straight up bothersome to actually read the thread. Like I can predict how a lot of race threads will play out on GAF and I can predict seeing things I just straight up don't need to see for my mental health when a shit ton of people say things that are just stupid or devoid of empathy. It wears on you after a while.

Todd Harris, Rubio advisor:

Todd Harris ‏@dtoddharris 27m27 minutes ago
Media needs to chill. The FL Q poll #'s are way wrong. We are going to win Florida. Period. Take it to the bank.

Are the Q Poll numbers wrong because there's evidence of faulty polling or are they wrong because of "BELIEVE"?

 

[Makai]

Trump has no Super Tuesday ads.

 

[PBY]

So every poll released for Florida is wrong then? Ok.

Are we concerned by just how strong that is? Or I wonder if their internals are built on various contingencies, ie no Kasich.

 

[The Technomancer]

Wish I didn't have to film tonight, was looking forward to seeing seeing Trump trump the field.

Oh shit the debate is tonight isn't it? I have two separate events I have to show my face at to be polite. Well I'll keep track of the thread here I guess

 

[jtb]

The idea that Hilary Clinton, who voted 93% of the time with Sander's, isn't even centre left is actually quite insulting, and definitely very stupid.

Hillary is, like Obama, notoriously anti-egg though

 

[Tesseract]

let he who is without meme post the first gif

 

[CCS]

I must admit to being rather alarmed by the number of people on the left who seem to have decided that the Tea Party are onto something with their insistence on complete and total ideological purity amongst their candidates.

 

[Angry Fork]

Which ones? Are you ok with a Cruz presidency and Congress that passes a law making same sex marriage illegal? Carpetbombing Syria until the desert glows? What kind of eggs are we talking about here?

I never understood how liberals used to condemn the institution of marriage as generally patriarchal and oppressive (which I feel they're right about), but when it comes to gay marriage it's some extremely important thing. I don't really get it.

Not being able to marry someone is nowhere near as oppressive as black people being executed by police, slaughtering children overseas with drones or having bankers control almost every facet of public life.

All of this is predicated on the belief that Hillary has a better chance of beating republicans than Bernie though, which isn't true. Bernie supports gay rights and has done so in stronger tone, for longer than Hillary, there's no reason not to support him in this case.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Oh shit the debate is tonight isn't it? I have two separate events I have to show my face at to be polite. Well I'll keep track of the thread here I guess

Yeah, I should be able to catch the end and the post coverage tho.

*rick dance*

 

[Officerrob]

Trump has no Super Tuesday ads.

He gets hours of free publicity every day

 

[Loudninja]

Heh lots of Hillary topics today.