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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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F

Fenderputty

Banned
PBY said:
Bernie Sanders ‏@BernieSanders 30m30 minutes ago
You can be a moderate. You can be a progressive. But you cannot be a moderate and a progressive.

Well which are you?
Click to expand...

A progressive that realizes moderates are needed for a chance at left wing success?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
ivysaur12 said:
btw, Bernie is doing a twitter thread complaining about Hillary's progressive credentials, if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

>.<

Way to alienate the Obama coalition Bernie, great job there. Not like you needed them to win this thing or anything.

kirblar said:
It's a sign that the left is about to start running into the polarization problem that's crippling the right. :-/
Click to expand...

Which is the last thing we need at this point. It's a lot easier to win elections if your party is seen as the only grown-ups in the room. Considering how dangerous it would be for the GOP to take back the presidency, I'm not willing to give that advantage up.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
ivysaur12 said:
It doesn't matter if it's less true than it has been before, because it's still true. And considering we haven't had a Democrat who's run in 8 years, your options are Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton 1.0, so.

He's focusing his campaign on progressives by shunning moderates. That's not smart.
Click to expand...

Idunno, I think his positions would shun moderates more than that tweet would. He's pretty clearly not running on a middle-of-the-road oriented platform, nor are any of the republicans. Even Rubio said in the first debate that he opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest, and he's generally seen as the GOP's best hope. The gulf between the parties is more pronounced than ever and I think the rhetoric on both sides reflects that pretty clearly. Moderates are being courted less than ever because they matter less than ever.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
kirblar said:
It's a sign that the left is about to start running into the polarization problem that's crippling the right. :-/
Click to expand...

I'd say if that's coming, it's years down the line, because a bunch of ultraliberal college students aren't going to win anyone general elections anytime soon.

Might just be a product of all the think pieces about colleges and free speech stuff, but it seems like a lot of the "ideological purity" stuff coming from the left of the spectrum is confined to those crowds.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Was this morning consult poll posted (NH)? Taken 2/2-2/3

1) 2016 National Republican Primary
Asked of 641 registered voters
Jeb Bush (R) 5%
Ben Carson (R) 9%
Chris Christie (R) 3%
Ted Cruz (R) 14%
Carly Fiorina (R) 3%
John Kasich (R) 2%
Marco Rubio (R) 12%
Rick Santorum (R) 1%
Donald Trump (R) 38%
Other 5%
Undecided 8%

The king is back.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Macho Madness said:
Do not Diablos about the general in FEBRUARY.
Click to expand...

I'm more worried about what the hell the guys running Bernie's campaign are doing. They aren't even trying to win anymore, the campaign's twitter feed basically dissed Obama as well as Clinton. Always a good move to diss the very popular incumbent president of the party whose nomination you are trying to get. If they aren't careful they'll create something they can't control.
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
Carly Fiorina begging to be let back on the debate stage.

To the Chairman and Members of the Republican National Committee,

Our debate process is broken. Networks are making up these debate rules as they go along&#8202;—&#8202;not to be able to fit candidates on the stage&#8202;—&#8202;but arbitrarily to decide which candidates make for the best TV in their opinion. Now it is time for the RNC to act in the best interest of the Party that it represents.

In 2012, the debate stage featured 8 candidates until the Iowa Caucus and then all declared candidates still in the race were invited from that point forward, including the ABC New Hampshire debate. As of today, I will be the only candidate kept off the debate stage. To review, we beat Governors Christie and Kasich in Iowa this week when voters actually had their say. This campaign has the same number of delegates as Governors Bush and Kasich while Governor Christie has zero. We’re ahead of Dr. Carson in New Hampshire polling. We are 6th in hard dollars raised and have twice the cash on hand as either Governors Christie or Kasich. We are already on the ballot in 32 states, and there is a ground game with paid staff in 12 states. Yet, all of these candidates will be invited to the ABC debate. I will not.

There are only 8 candidates left. It’s time for the RNC to demand that media executives step aside and let voters hear from all of us.

I trust you will act appropriately.
Carly Fiorina
Click to expand...

Disses networks for making arbitrary guidelines to decide the debate candidates, proposes her own arbitrary guidelines.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
B-Dubs said:
>.<

Way to alienate the Obama coalition Bernie, great job there. Not like you needed them to win this thing or anything.



Which is the last thing we need at this point. It's a lot easier to win elections if your party is seen as the only grown-ups in the room. Considering how dangerous it would be for the GOP to take back the presidency, I'm not willing to give that advantage up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it sure crippled the right...for the last 35 years the right has set the tone and the direction of this country with very little input from the left.

They're falling apart now because they've finally over-reached. The left isn't even close to over-reaching yet.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
I semi-wonder if they're maybe a bit skittish. We have a poll-obsessed media that's been regularly putting-up these absolutely gaudy numbers for Bernie in NH (25-30% leads!); if she closes that gap by a decent margin, she gets to claim a narrative before the race shifts into notably easier terrain.

Tinfoil Theory: if this race gets too dangerous to where it could affect November, maybe a few more Senators will say something. I'd love to see Warren step in as a circuit-breaker if things get too hot.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Yeah he might end up alienating moderate and conservative democrats which would be very crucial in winning the midwest, southern states, and some west coast states. I think that Bernie's support is slightly overstated. If Bernie main support base was split in Iowa among a extremely liberal state, then it suggest that his support isn't all that broad among white liberals. That means he most likely very vulnerable among white voters in pretty much every other state .
 
K

kirblar

Member
disastermouse said:
Yeah, it sure crippled the right...for the last 35 years the right has set the tone and the direction of this country with very little input from the left.

They're falling apart now because they've finally over-reached. The left isn't even close to over-reaching yet.
Click to expand...
The left over-reaching was a cause of the electoral defeats in the '70s/'80s.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
HylianTom said:
I semi-wonder if they're maybe a bit skittish. We have a poll-obsessed media that's been regularly putting-up these absolutely gaudy numbers for Bernie in NH (25-30% leads!); if she closes that gap by a decent margin, she gets to claim a narrative before the race shifts into notably easier terrain.
Click to expand...

I think if Bernie wins by 10 points or less, that's good news for Clinton. Anything between 11-20 points is within the realm of realistic expectations, and if he does indeed win by 25-35 points I think that's bad news for Clinton, because then the "momentum is on Bernie's side" narrative would be pushed hard going into Nevada.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
PBY said:
Was this morning consult poll posted (NH)? Taken 2/2-2/3

1) 2016 National Republican Primary
Asked of 641 registered voters
Jeb Bush (R) 5%
Ben Carson (R) 9%
Chris Christie (R) 3%
Ted Cruz (R) 14%
Carly Fiorina (R) 3%
John Kasich (R) 2%
Marco Rubio (R) 12%
Rick Santorum (R) 1%
Donald Trump (R) 38%
Other 5%
Undecided 8%

The king is back.
Click to expand...

I feel less salty than two nights ago now.

I hope Jebs sticks around to make Rubio bleed.

Go Trump!!!
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
OrangeGrayBlue said:
I think if Bernie wins by 10 points or less, that's good news for Clinton. Anything between 11-20 points is within the realm of realistic expectations, and if he does indeed win by 25-35 points I think that's bad news for Clinton, because then the "momentum is on Bernie's side" narrative would be pushed hard going into Nevada.
Click to expand...
That sounds about right.

OrangeGrayBlue said:
Who do you think she would side with?
Click to expand...
That's a tough one. Definitely not sure.
 
I

Iolo

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
Idunno, I think his positions would shun moderates more than that tweet would. He's pretty clearly not running on a middle-of-the-road oriented platform, nor are any of the republicans. Even Rubio said in the first debate that he opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest, and he's generally seen as the GOP's best hope. The gulf between the parties is more pronounced than ever and I think the rhetoric on both sides reflects that pretty clearly. Moderates are being courted less than ever because they matter less than ever.
Click to expand...

Holy shit have we learned nothing? do you live in a liberal bubble, like Cruz and the evangelicals in their bubble?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
RustyNails said:
Well bernie, you are moderate on gun issues. Which one are you?
Click to expand...

I fucking guarantee you that Hillary and her team are working on the perfect version of this line right now because there's no way this doesn't come up at the debate, especially considering his attack hit Obama at the same time.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
PBY said:
Was this morning consult poll posted (NH)? Taken 2/2-2/3

1) 2016 National Republican Primary
Asked of 641 registered voters
Jeb Bush (R) 5%
Ben Carson (R) 9%
Chris Christie (R) 3%
Ted Cruz (R) 14%
Carly Fiorina (R) 3%
John Kasich (R) 2%
Marco Rubio (R) 12%
Rick Santorum (R) 1%
Donald Trump (R) 38%
Other 5%
Undecided 8%

The king is back.
Click to expand...
The king never left the building. He simply got no play from the corn huskers who usually propel batshit fuckers like Santorum or Huckabee.
 
C

CCS

Banned
I'm surprised Sanders isn't in favour of gun control. It might help him avoid shooting himself in the foot like this.
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
Has anyone ever volunteered at the polls before? I'm thinking about doing it.

Also, Kasich needs to have a good ass debate on Saturday or whenever it is.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
B-Dubs said:
I'm more worried about what the hell the guys running Bernie's campaign are doing. They aren't even trying to win anymore, the campaign's twitter feed basically dissed Obama as well as Clinton. Always a good move to diss the very popular incumbent president of the party whose nomination you are trying to get. If they aren't careful they'll create something they can't control.
Click to expand...

Like..



A REVOLUTION? *thundeeeerrr*
Black Mamba said:
#BernieBein'Berned
Click to expand...
Again, the counter is evident. "Would you rahter he weren't a democrat at all?"

They can't sustain that narrative when the man's choice to run inside the party benefits them oh so very much.

Plus yknow, talks of "you gon need the dems" ignore the very basic issue that they sure as fuck wont lift a finger for him unless he takes the nom (which he wont), so thats basically just concern trolling. Fuck would they do if he took it, deny their support?
 
I

Iolo

Member
B-Dubs said:
I fucking guarantee you that Hillary and her team are working on the perfect version of this line right now because there's no way this doesn't come up at the debate, especially considering his attack hit Obama at the same time.
Click to expand...

You know, this debate on Thursday probably does Bernie no favors, since he's so far ahead in NH. It's not likely it will up his margins from 60-40 to 70-30; but there's significant downside. It gets media exposure for NV/SC, but so does the 2/11 debate. But there is a chance at least of a narrative shift with a debate before NH.
 
D

damisa

Member
Are we really sure Bernie won't run as an independent if he loses to Hillary? With all this talk about revolutions and conspiracy theories about unfair treatment, and constantly attacking Obama, it's like he setting himself up to run as an Independent already.

He was never a Democrat and only became one because that was the only way he could get media attention. He doesn't need to be a Democrat anymore to get media attention or funding.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
damisa said:
Are we really sure Bernie won't run as an independent if he loses to Hillary? With all this talk about revolutions and conspiracy theories about unfair treatment, and constantly attacking Obama, it's like he setting himself up to run as an Independent already.

He was never a Democrat and only became one because that was the only way he could get media attention. He doesn't need to be a Democrat anymore to get media attention or funding.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's that spiteful, but I guess the question is how much of his campaign bluster he truly buys into. Never underestimate the stupidity of the Holy Warriors.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Iolo said:
Holy shit have we learned nothing? do you live in a liberal bubble, like Cruz and the evangelicals in their bubble?
Click to expand...

No, I grew up in an exceptionally rural part of the country: West Virginia. But there being fewer moderates today than there have been for decades is a matter of fact, not opinion. It's the reason a guy like Ted Cruz could even get elected. While overreaching cost us in '72, for instance, we shouldn't act like taking a safe moderate route is any sort of guaranteed win either (see: Kerry). In fact, downplaying our progressivism is what got democrats curb stomped in 2014.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
damisa said:
Are we really sure Bernie won't run as an independent if he loses to Hillary? With all this talk about revolutions and conspiracy theories about unfair treatment, and constantly attacking Obama, it's like he setting himself up to run as an Independent already.

He was never a Democrat and only became one because that was the only way he could get media attention. He doesn't need to be a Democrat anymore to get media attention or funding.
Click to expand...

There are many days when I doubt the competency of some of his campaign staff, but I'd never believe the idea that Sanders himself would decide to run third-party. He knows exactly what would happen.
 
I

Iolo

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
No, I grew up in an exceptionally rural part of the country: West Virginia. But there being fewer moderates today than there have been for decades is a matter of fact, not opinion. It's the reason a guy like Ted Cruz could even get elected. While overreaching costed us in '72, for instance, we shouldn't act like taking a safe moderate route is any sort of guaranteed win either (see: Kerry). In fact, downplaying our progressivism is what got democrats curb stomped in 2014.
Click to expand...

The point is you have to appeal to both groups. You can't just jettison moderates and independents. There aren't enough progressives or conservatives to form a coalition on either side.
 
K

kirblar

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
No, I grew up in an exceptionally rural part of the country: West Virginia. But there being fewer moderates today than there have been for decades is a matter of fact, not opinion. It's the reason a guy like Ted Cruz could even get elected. While overreaching costed us in '72, for instance, we shouldn't act like taking a safe moderate route is any sort of guaranteed win either (see: Kerry). In fact, downplaying our progressivism is what got democrats curb stomped in 2014.
Click to expand...
No. No it wasn't. Presidents usually lose seats in midterms. That's a historical trend dating back for ages. You only reverse that under really unusual circumstances.

The idea that to win the center you have to push more to the outside is insane. It's why Cruz would be a cakewalk for the Dems.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Black Republican said:
wow.............he got us............we all got played


all according to keikaku
Click to expand...
I wonder if I can even name all the candidates.

Let's see, dropouts (should be 8): Rand Paul, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Scott Walker, George Pataki, Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry

Still in it (9): Jim Gilmore, Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, John Kasich, Carly Fiorina

Yup I'm a nerd.

Too bad there weren't 2 more Democrats, 5 + 17 + 2 equals a full Hunger Games. Maybe if you count Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Iolo said:
The point is you have to appeal to both groups. You can't just jettison moderates and independents. There aren't enough progressives or conservatives to form a coalition on either side.
Click to expand...

I agree generally, but I don't find the argument as compelling for 2016. Who's going to corral moderates on the Republican side? Donald "rapists and drug dealers" Trump? Ted "bomb them till the sand glows" Cruz? Marco "even in cases of rape and incest" Rubio? Jeb "please clap" Bush? They don't have a single candidate who excites moderate voters.


Kirblar said:
No. No it wasn't. Presidents usually lose seats in midterms. That's a historical trend dating back for ages. You only reverse that under really unusual circumstances.
Click to expand...
True, but unless I'm mistaken, 2014 was an exceptionally egregious example of this rule of thumb.
 
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