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[Deleted member 231381]

The primary problem I see with publicly funded elections in the way you describe is self-reinforcement. An ideology becomes dominant, more people support it, more money for candidates that follow it, go to one.

Well, it depends on whether you think there are increasing returns to scale or not. Theoretically everyone has to use that money to campaign such that they get that same amount of money again. If you got $30mil last time and the othet party got $20mil, all it means is thay you have to run a campaign to defend $30mil worth of donations and they have a campaign to defend $20mil worth of donations. If there are increasing returns to scale, this becomes easier to do the bigger you get, yes, but then you just implement a diminishing returns system where you 'tax' larger recipients or whatnot.

 

[CCS]

Well, it depends on whether you think there are increasing returns to scale or not. Theoretically everyone has to use that money to campaign such that they get that same amount of money again. If there are increasing returns to scale, this becomes easier to do the bigger you get, yes, but then you just implement a diminishing returns system where you 'tax' larger recipients or whatnot.

To be honest I think campaign finance as it is wouldn't be too bad if SuperPACs were no longer a thing. After all, Sanders is demonstrating that it's possible to match the campaign contributions of a more establishment candidate.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Brother, you have no much idea I want publicly funded elections. Every citizen gets a $30 voucher from the state to divide between electoral campaigns of their choosing, and that's the only source of money in politics. Would be excellent. Something for the future, perhaps.

I feel like the intermediate step to publicly-funded elections would just be to dramatically shorten the primary and general election season, instead of this yearslong slog we have now. Reduce the need for all that money in the first place and make people more amenable to use of public funds. Right now as Obama showed you just can't compete by staying within the federal limits.

 

[B-Dubs]

Benji let's not play the contractualist game. It always ends with someone vetoing the state.

Benji doesn't even believe the state exists.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I found a sneak preview of what we might see in Hillary's transcripts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u79hDi6XBwQ&t=20s

From the Milken Conference, put on by Michael Milken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Milken#Indictment_and_sentencing

Criticism of Wall Street is not unfounded.

 

[benjipwns]

They'd probably make it illegal to give your voucher to third parties or independents. Or wrap it in all sorts of requirements like they currently do for ballot status.

Benji doesn't even believe the state exists.

Incorrect! Maybe.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

To be honest I think campaign finance as it is wouldn't be too bad if SuperPACs were no longer a thing. After all, Sanders is demonstrating that it's possible to match the campaign contributions of a more establishment candidate.

I disagree. Sanders is behind Clinton despite having four times as many contributors. That's just wrong; and I'm not saying that because it Sanders, you can find my UK Poligaf posts arguing for this in the UK from way back. I mean, if you don't want to give people vouchers, then just allow them to donate up to a $30 cap and make it 100% tax deductible, which is essentially the same except slightly more regressive for people who pay no tax, but a $2700 cap is obscene. That's more than 10% of what the median American earns in a year.

 

[ivysaur12]

Just say "gays"

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This is going to be the noobiest, most out of touch question, but I'm curious - what is it about Goldman Sachs that makes it such a vilified bank? Like I think it's the go-to name for financial corruption. I was around 14 when the housing crisis occurred and I don't know too much about it. Is it because of the housing crisis? Did it play a large role in it? I thought that the ratings agencies were giving inaccurate ratings, and that some people were able to predict that the housing bubble was about to happen and shorted the market, but did Goldman hold a larger role than other banks in perpetuating the deception? Also, Goldman's net assets and total income are lower than banks like JP Morgan and Citi. Does it wield more influence than those banks? Thanks in advance!

I don't want to be that guy but the name and what people tend to associate those names with probably has something to do with it.

its short hand because its a jewish name

I mean people don't spit Chase's name or Bank of America with such venom.

I don't think people intentionally do it but its kinda like how many not overtly racist people assume racist sterotypes.

And this isn't to say Goldman is a god company either just why I think its the go-to name.

Just say "gays"

gay people watch TNT?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Benji doesn't even believe the state exists.

That was what I was lightheartedly alluding to. It's the quarter Brit in me.

 

[ivysaur12]

gay people watch TNT?

Only because of Franklin & Bash

 

[NeoXChaos]

Some NH lady on MSNBC was going to vote for Kasich if she could so he can be against Hillary. She's voted for Hillary btw and will in the general.

 

[benjipwns]

I disagree. Sanders is behind Clinton despite having four times as many contributors. That's just wrong; and I'm not saying that because it Sanders, you can find my UK Poligaf posts arguing for this in the UK from way back. I mean, if you don't want to give people vouchers, then just allow them to donate up to a $30 cap and make it 100% tax deductible, which is essentially the same except slightly more regressive for people who pay no tax, but a $2700 cap is obscene. That's more than 10% of what the median American earns in a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_election_campaign_fund_checkoff
http://www.fec.gov/info/checkoff.htm
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...x-return-helped-kill-public-campaign-funding/

 

[CCS]

I disagree. Sanders is behind Clinton despite having four times as many contributors. That's just wrong; and I'm not saying that because it Sanders, you can find my UK Poligaf posts arguing for this in the UK from way back. I mean, if you don't want to give people vouchers, then just allow them to donate up to a $30 cap and make it 100% tax deductible, which is essentially the same except slightly more regressive for people who pay no tax, but a $2700 cap is obscene. That's more than 10% of what the median American earns in a year.

Perhaps, I don't like the system of everyone having vouchers though. I know plenty of people who should have as little influence over the political system as possible

 

[Atomic Playboy]

A few things.

1) They manipulated instrument ratings and pricing to protect themselves when mortgages went to shit as a security. There was a rule implemented later to address this ("mark to market") but without it, they were just acting unethically, not illegally.

2) Once things began to accelerate, they took opposite sides on deals of their clients on fraudulent terms. Basically, once they saw the mortgage-backed stuff was crap, they pushed it on customers and got it off their own books.

^^^ The above is a somewhat sloppy shorthand and I may have some details a little off, but that's the gist of it. Essentially they avoided losing in the crisis, and then actively profited, by being unethical (and in the second case, illegal-- they were fined for it IIRC).

FWIW, I used to work there in IT, but all this is so far removed from the part of the business that I was involved in and largely after I left.

Add to this that a large number of high level Goldman executives take positions in government afterward and it gives the appearance of a conflict of interest; how is treasury secretary Henry Paulson going to come down on Goldman when he was just the CEO there and he's friends with everybody on the board? So it basically looks like Goldman violates both ethical codes and actual laws, throws their clients under the bus to build massive profits for rich bankers and then no one wants to punish them because they're buddy-buddy with the only people who have the power to do anything. It had the appearance of unprecedented greed and corruption and came to represent the idea that Wall Street was profiting off the misery of everybody else.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

Only because of Franklin & Bash

And Charmed reruns?

 

[NeoXChaos]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

when does voting end?

 

[NeoXChaos]

when does voting end?

8 EST.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Add to this that a large number of high level Goldman executives take positions in government afterward and it gives the appearance of a conflict of interest; how is treasury secretary Henry Paulson going to come down on Goldman when he was just the CEO there and he's friends with everybody on the board? So it basically looks like Goldman violates both ethical codes and actual laws, throws their clients under the bus to build massive profits for rich bankers and then no one wants to punish them because they're buddy-buddy with the only people who have the power to do anything. It had the appearance of unprecedented greed and corruption and came to represent the idea that Wall Street was profiting off the misery of everybody else.

Mostly agree, except that the government came after them more than others. I don't know if they have influence over the SEC.

On the other thread going-- campaign finance reform. I'd be all for state-providing all the funds and an end to donations altogether. There are details to work out, but I think it's best that once you reach some threshold of popularity, money is not on the table anymore. I don't know how you keep PAC money from spending for attack ads without infringing free speech, however.

 

[Tesseract]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

 

[PBY]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

Wait really?

 

[CCS]

Exit polls before voting closes always surprises me. Feels very wrong.

 

[Holmes]

when does voting end?

It'll just be about the issues, no horserace numbers.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Exit polls before voting closes always surprises me. Feels very wrong.

I mean, it is illegal in the UK. That might be why.

 

[Black Mamba]

when does voting end?

Most places at 7pm EST but a few remain til 8PM.

 

[ivysaur12]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

Wait, really? Where? Why?

 

[B-Dubs]

Only because of Franklin & Bash

You mean The Librarian movies and the series.

 

[PBY]

WHERE ARE THESE POLLS?!?

 

[CCS]

I mean, it is illegal in the UK. That might be why.

Haha it probably is bloody colonials don't know how to do an election in a civilised manner

 

[RustyNails]

Only city where you need to keep an eye on in New Hampshire is Manchester (Hillsborough county). It has 9% of total state population and if Hillary is not up comfortably there she's toast.

 

[Veritigo_X]

It's been 5 minutes. I demand exit polls.

 

[benjipwns]

The best meltdown story maybe is Jeff Immelt at GE screaming at Paulson to do something because he was going to lose his bonus since GE Capital was basically going to drop below a threshold that triggered it when the debt matured. So the treasury sent them $30 billion. Bonus saved. And no need to issue stock, raise debt, raise new capital or anything else.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It's been 5 minutes. I demand exit polls.

2 minutes to our coverage to tell you that Exit polls are coming

 

[ivysaur12]

neo did you lie

 

[Slackerish]

exit polls in 2 minutes.

These early exit polls will be like about the top issues, maybe age. Shouldn't be anything about who people are voting for

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Haha it probably is bloody colonials don't know how to do an election in a civilised manner

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. You're never allowed to be smug about your political system until you're Scandinavian.

 

[CCS]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. You're never allowed to be smug about your political system until you're Scandinavian.

I was just taking it as read that Scandinavia was best as always.

 

[danm999]

I think Australia does ok with preferential voting, independently drawn electorates, Saturday elections and automatic registration.

Then again it did produce Tony Abbott.

 

[Veritigo_X]

These early exit polls will be like about the top issues, maybe age. Shouldn't be anything about who people are voting for

I don't care. It's been far too long without a poll in this thread. We need to feed.

 

[Tesseract]

Haha it probably is bloody colonials don't know how to do an election in a civilised manner

feel free to join the quantum world at any time, yorktown never forget

 

[benjipwns]

Michael Savage gets the scoop:

Savage asked Trump about the mix-up during the introductions for the ABC News Republican debate Saturday night in which Ben Carson missed his call and stood at the stage entrance while other candidates passed him.

Savage noted Trump was the only one who didn’t “step over him.”

“All the others walked by him, like he wasn’t there,” Savage said. “He didn’t hear it, or something. You actually stood there and you told him his name was called. And you said, ‘Ben, go ahead, you were called first.'”

Trump said it wasn’t Carson’s fault.

“You couldn’t hear a thing back there. It was really the fault of the network,” Trump said.

So, I walked out and I saw Ben standing, and I said, ‘What are you doing here? You’re supposed to be out there.’

“I stood with him until they got it straight,” he said.

Savage commented that the other candidates “stepped over, basically, a person who had fallen in the street.”

“And that tells you an awful lot about people,” the talk host said.

 

[And_Gignac]

Neo didnt lie. CNN promised exits poll like 10 minutes ago. They are yet to deliver.

 

[CCS]

I think Australia does ok with preferential voting, independently drawn electorates, Saturday elections and automatic registration.

Then again it did produce Tony Abbott.

I agree with both parts of this post.

 

[Tesseract]

trump is a goddamn master sycophant, i honestly kind of admire it

 

[PBY]

Neo didnt lie. CNN promised exits poll like 10 minutes ago. They are yet to deliver.

Stay trash CNN. Stay trash.

 

[ivysaur12]

Neo didnt lie. CNN promised exits poll like 10 minutes ago. They are yet to deliver.

Rage.

3 hours, anyway. Will make chat in 2 1/2.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think Australia does ok with preferential voting, independently drawn electorates, Saturday elections and automatic registration.

Then again it did produce Tony Abbott.

Bicameral, federal, with compulsory voting and single member districts all drag it down. New Zealand's constitution is much better, one of the best outside the Scandinavian countries.

 

[disastermouse]

You said she only recently started blaming the wealthy class. And you said she blamed the homeowners. Both wrong.

Now you are saying she's "recently sharpened her rhetoric."

Yes, that's goalpost-moving.

I expect in a few days you will be back to repeat the same lies, be called on them, and move the goalposts again.

We get enough active distortion and reality-ignoring from the GOP, we really don't need it in the Democratic primary.

I can't tell if you are self-deluded, uncritical in your thinking, or just willing to lie to get what you want. All options suck, and you make your candidate of choice look bad.

I'm not uncritical of Hillary, but the distortions are off the hook lately thanks to people like you.

GodWOON's Law, maybe? Gonnondorf' Law? Gilbert's Law?

 

[Black Republican]

Neo didnt lie. CNN promised exits poll like 10 minutes ago. They are yet to deliver.

CNN: HAHA GOT EM! Got em!