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[CCS]

Queen, you ain't even American. We don't make Britons pay taxes. It's a favor for you all not making our corporations pay taxes....

That's the Irish you're thinking of

Well, also our territories I guess. But we don't make any money out of that either...

 

[shem935]

I would only pay $520 under Bernie more but I'm a poor part time student. Surprised my taxes would go up that much though I would benefit the most under his proposed programs. Hillary $20. Trump -$160, Cruz -$140

 

[User 463088]

I know it's not much, but another $250 out of my pocket in taxes every month would fuck me over royally. My insurance premium is like $64 something a month through the Exchange. If I get the job through Apple, then I'd be even more screwed.

 

[Makai]

I tried a 20,000 income couple with one child..


Cruz and trump save them 200-300 dollars.

Sanders makes them pay 2,550 more.

That is unreal. That is more then 10% of their income.

I don't think it's accurate. No way does Cruz's flat tax work out to paying less. You normally pay no federal tax when you make like $10k but it's showing savings.

 

[User 463088]

I tried to put in a billionaire and it wouldn't let me.

Under Bernie's tax plan, there would be no billionaires. Under the Republicans, billionaires are exempt from any financial contributions because they're just too awesome and important.

 

[Fuchsdh]

If you make that much, you definitely do not benefit from Bernie's plan.

I cannot fathom the actual benefit I would see that would be worth the equivalent of raising my already pretty ridiculous rent by a third every month under Bernie's plan.

 

[Macho Madness]

I know it's not much, but another $250 out of my pocket in taxes every month would fuck me over royally. My insurance premium is like $64 something a month through the Exchange. If I get the job through Apple, then I'd be even more screwed.

To be fair the $64 would be gone along with co-pays and any deductible but I see what you're saying.

 

[Makai]

mfw when everybody in PoliGAF becomes a Republican.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't think Clinton has actually released a full tax plan.

Tulsi Gabbard is definitely running for President one day. It's pretty shrewd of her to publicly resign over disagreements with DWS and hitch her wagon onto the ascendant Bernie wing of the party. I don't know too much about her yet though.

Something something homosexual extremists.

Real liberal icon.

 

[pigeon]

Has anyone tried this to see what comes out? Vox put out a calculator for the various tax plans, GOP and Dems.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

It doesnt scroll properly on my phone.

It's about what people are suggesting. I'd personally get huge benefits from Trump or Cruz getting elected, pay a little more under Clinton, and pay a huge additional amount under Sanders. (I'm not going to give exact figures because then you'd all know how much I make )

I will say that I'm pro-taxes and even so the magnitude of the increase in the Sanders plan was a little shocking to me. It would pretty much wipe out all of the money we're saving for retirement/college, plus some.

(On the other hand it turns out that if I'm wrong about everything and Trump gets elected and puts his tax plan in place I make out like a fucking bandit, so I guess that's a plus of sorts.)

One critique is that this assumes immediate pass-through of payroll tax increases to the worker, but doesn't include, so far as I can tell, anything about valuing my employee-provided health insurance, which would presumably be replaced by an equal value in wages if we did get a single-payer plan. Sticky wage concerns probably apply equally to both sides of this equation, so this is a little bit tricky. I tend to agree with the people who say this is not a great way to understand and analyze Sanders's proposals.

 

[Macho Madness]

New York primary registration closes today.

 

[pigeon]

I don't think it's accurate. No way does Cruz's flat tax work out to paying less. You normally pay no federal tax when you make like $10k but it's showing savings.

Cruz is cutting payroll tax. Even people making below the poverty line pay full payroll tax, that's why it's such a terrible tax.

 

[Makai]

It's about what people are suggesting. I'd personally get huge benefits from Trump or Cruz getting elected, pay a little more under Clinton, and pay a huge additional amount under Sanders. (I'm not going to give exact figures because then you'd all know how much I make )

Do ittt. Wage transparency leads to equitable pay

Cruz is cutting payroll tax. Even people making below the poverty line pay full payroll tax, that's why it's such a terrible tax.

Ohhh. That makes sense.

 

[damisa]

15K more taxes with Sanders, it would ruin me

 

[Atomic Playboy]

One critique is that this assumes immediate pass-through of payroll tax increases to the worker, but doesn't include, so far as I can tell, anything about valuing my employee-provided health insurance, which would presumably be replaced by an equal value in wages if we did get a single-payer plan. Sticky wage concerns probably apply equally to both sides of this equation, so this is a little bit tricky. I tend to agree with the people who say this is not a great way to understand and analyze Sanders's proposals.

Why would you assume that money a business saves on an insurance plan would be switched over to an increase in salary? I suppose it could be at your company, but I'm guessing a lot of large corporations would pocket the difference and see a slight uptick in stock prices, ironically benefiting the same 1% Bernie is so worried about.

 

[Armaros]

Do ittt. Wage transparency leads to equitable pay

Ohhh. That makes sense.

Yeah I just looked up the Calc again, the update says they are adding in all taxes, including payroll. That explains the savings and how small they are compared to higher income brackets.

 

[teiresias]

mfw when everybody in PoliGAF becomes a Republican.

Not in any case. Do I mind paying higher taxes for certain services? No. Do I mind paying a five-figure increase on my tax bill when I'm nowhere near being in the top 10% of income earners? Hell yes. And for what? Health insurance I already have and free tuition for people that think majoring in English Literature is a good investment?

Granted, this calculator is probably overstating the situation since it doesn't seem like it takes into account any of the standard adjustments to AGI people would take advantage of, such as contributions to 401k accounts, and any mortgage deductions that further lower AGI. Mainly because it isn't focused completely on federal income tax.

 

[Y2Kev]

I would owe over 500k more with Sanders. Disgusting.

 

[Makai]

Not in any case. Do I mind paying higher taxes for certain services? No. Do I mind paying a five-figure increase on my tax bill when I'm nowhere near being in the top 10% of income earners? Hell yes. And for what? Health insurance I already have and free tuition for people that think majoring in English Literature is a good investment?

Mitt was an English major. Checkmate.

 

[User 463088]

To be fair the $64 would be gone along with co-pays and any deductible but I see what you're saying.

Ya, I know there are cost trade offs. For a lot of people, it would totally be worth it. For me last year it probably would have been because I had some health issues. Typically, I go to the doctor every three months at $25 a pop. (One of them is free, since it's a well visit). I take two prescriptions a day, and then I have one that I get filled as needed, which turns out to be every two months, typically. The two I take every month are $8 (combined) and the one I get every other month is $50. So, assuming I went to the doctor every month it would still be $120 or so more than what I spend now. Now, someone like my mom it would probably help, since she takes quite a few drugs. But, her medical coverage through the school system is insanely good. It's 100% paid, and her copays are like $3.00 for most things.

There's also the issue that a lot of people who've reviewed Bernie's plan says it doesn't rase enough revenue. So, it could go even higher than what he's currently claiming.

 

[CCS]

I would owe over 500k more with Sanders. Disgusting.

Kev's underselling it so we don't discover he's actually Trump.

 

[User1608]

TRUMP
Pay $800 less
(Tax rate: 8.7%)

CRUZ
Pay $610 less
(Tax rate: 9.4%)

CLINTON
Pay $20 more
(Tax rate: 11.7%)

SANDERS
Pay $1,630 more
(Tax rate: 17.5%)

The only one who personally benefits me is Hillary as I am not a citizen and am undocumented. Cruz and Trump would have me on their hunt list, and they would end DACA, so adios job and extra money. I also wouldn't be able to enjoy some key benefits of Bernie's plan, not to mention I'd be making way less. I'm poor.

 

[Makai]

Kev's underselling it so we don't discover he's actually Trump.

Y2Kev is actually Y2Kaz. Explains Last Guardian.

 

[teiresias]

Mitt was an English major. Checkmate.

He's twice a loser.

 

[shinra-bansho]

One critique is that this assumes immediate pass-through of payroll tax increases to the worker, but doesn't include, so far as I can tell, anything about valuing my employee-provided health insurance, which would presumably be replaced by an equal value in wages if we did get a single-payer plan.

I think there's been a reasonable amount of empirical research showing the relative elasticity of labour supply and demand does lead to the former. I don't know how well supported the latter is or what the analogue would be, maybe research on how windfall profits are distributed or something.

 

[Holmes]

15K more taxes with Sanders, it would ruin me

But you would get free health care.

 

[Makai]

But you would get free health care.

And he could go back to school and get another Bachelors.

 

[User 463088]

He's twice a loser.

My degree in English Literature and Creative writing is having a sad.
But my sociology minor totally makes up for it! /s

God, I made some dumb decisions.

 

[Makai]

Here's the tax changes for people who make $0.

Damn you, Bern! You can't have my Shillings, Shillary!

 

[UltimaPooh]

All ya'll rich people....I'd only pay $3k more with Sander's plan.

Haha.

Im not rich but mine would be in the 6,000 range.

I'm cool with it tho.

 

[Macho Madness]

TRUMP
Pay $800 less
(Tax rate: 8.7%)

CRUZ
Pay $610 less
(Tax rate: 9.4%)

CLINTON
Pay $20 more
(Tax rate: 11.7%)

SANDERS
Pay $1,630 more
(Tax rate: 17.5%)

The only one who personally benefits me is Hillary as I am not a citizen and am undocumented. Cruz and Trump would have me on their hunt list, and they would end DACA, so adios job and extra money. I also wouldn't be able to enjoy some key benefits of Bernie's plan, not to mention I'd be making way less. I'm poor.

So it's you that stole my job.

 

[Ananas]

To be fair the $64 would be gone along with co-pays and any deductible but I see what you're saying.

Can somebody pllleeeeeaaaseeee detail for me why Bernie is so obsessed with Single Payer when the structure we have in place lends itself sooooooo much easier to a multipayer universal system ala Netherlands, Germany, Switerland, etc.....?

 

[Rubenov]

I tried a 20,000 income couple with one child..


Cruz and trump save them 200-300 dollars.

Sanders makes them pay 2,550 more.

That is unreal. That is more then 10% of their income.

Revolution.

 

[B-Dubs]

Can somebody pllleeeeeaaaseeee detail for me why Bernie is so obsessed with Single Payer when the structure we have in place lends itself sooooooo much easier to a multipayer universal system ala Netherlands, Germany, Switerland, etc.....?

 

[JesseEwiak]

Can somebody pllleeeeeaaaseeee detail for me why Bernie is so obsessed with Single Payer when the structure we have in place lends itself sooooooo much easier to a multipayer universal system ala Netherlands, Germany, Switerland, etc.....?

Because single payer has been the dream of liberals since the 60's because English speaking nations such as Canada are next door and the UK has the NHS and it was much harder to learn about say, French or German health care plans until the last generation or so.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Can somebody pllleeeeeaaaseeee detail for me why Bernie is so obsessed with Single Payer when the structure we have in place lends itself sooooooo much easier to a multipayer universal system ala Netherlands, Germany, Switerland, etc.....?

same reason he's so obsessed with trade protectionism when every bit of economic evidence contradicts his overall position

 

[UltimaPooh]

Can somebody pllleeeeeaaaseeee detail for me why Bernie is so obsessed with Single Payer when the structure we have in place lends itself sooooooo much easier to a multipayer universal system ala Netherlands, Germany, Switerland, etc.....?

You gotta plant your flag somewhere, when you're campaigning.

Im actually fine with heavy price regulation while keeping the same system mostly in place. Ala Japan.

 

[damisa]

But you would get free health care.

My employer already pays 100% of my healthcare, I don't expect them to pass any savings to me. I also don't expect the government plan to be as good

 

[pigeon]

I would owe over 500k more with Sanders. Disgusting.

Y1%Kev.

Why would you assume that money a business saves on an insurance plan would be switched over to an increase in salary? I suppose it could be at your company, but I'm guessing a lot of large corporations would pocket the difference and see a slight uptick in stock prices, ironically benefiting the same 1% Bernie is so worried about.

Well, for the same reason that we expect payroll taxes to pass through to the worker -- because they're part of a compensation package. The value of a group healthcare plan is money the company spends on you that you would otherwise have to spend yourself, so it's just wages in kind.

I'm sure companies would avoid paying for healthcare if they could, but that's not unique to a single-payer system. They would avoid paying for healthcare NOW if they could and yet most white-collar companies pay for healthcare, often at a very high quality level. They do this to attract high-quality labor -- that's how compensation works.

So if that compensation became basically not compensation, because the base level of healthcare (or the mandatory level of expenditure of the average worker, same thing) went way up, then companies who are currently offering it to get better workers would need to replace it with some other form of compensation. Sticky wages means it wouldn't happen immediately, but over time, companies that just pocketed it would just be paying less for the same jobs, and they'd suffer the attendant consequences of doing so.

 

[User 463088]

Seattle "Stranger" endorses both Hillary and Bernie

On Thursday, two days before the Democratic presidential caucuses in Washington state, the Seattle Stranger made an unusual endorsement. Three-fifths of the print editions of the paper featured Sanders on the cover and were distributed to areas of the city with the most support for the Vermont senator, while the other two-fifths included a Clinton endorsement and were delivered to neighborhoods likely to vote for the former secretary of state.

 

[Macho Madness]

Seattle "Stranger" endorses both Hillary and Bernie

As the editors wrote, the real message they wanted to get across was “DON'T BE AN IDIOT: VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE THIS NOVEMBER."

Pretty funny.

 

[User1608]

So it's you that stole my job.

*I love Randy Savage, he's one of my favorite wrestlers ever!

 

[Makai]

I'm sure companies would avoid paying for healthcare if they could, but that's not unique to a single-payer system. They would avoid paying for healthcare NOW if they could and yet most white-collar companies pay for healthcare, often at a very high quality level. They do this to attract high-quality labor -- that's how compensation works.

I think this is weird because it's much easier for somebody to compare their wages at different companies, but would have much less ability or interest for comparing health plans.

 

[Chris R]

Y1%Kev.

More like Y0.01%Kev

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

TRUMP
Yuuuge tax cuts, without explicit offsetting spending cuts.
Pay $810 less
(Tax rate: 3.4%)

CRUZ
For most, 10% flat rate on income tax and 16% value-added tax.
Pay $410 less
(Tax rate: 4.2%)

CLINTON
Taxes stay about the same.
Pay $20 more
(Tax rate: 4.9%)

SANDERS
Big tax increases, mostly on the rich, to pay for big programs.
Pay $4,040 more
(Tax rate: 12.1%)


Yeah.... I would be fine with my taxes going up but your average american just isn't. Bernie would get crushed in the GE on this alone. No amount of "but but but you'll get this or that" explanations are going to work. You just can't run on raising taxes on the middle class. People are crazy if they believe it'll sell.

 

[Ananas]

Because single payer has been the dream of liberals since the 60's because English speaking nations such as Canada are next door and the UK has the NHS and it was much harder to learn about say, French or German health care plans until the last generation or so.

Eh, maybe for the normal person. But we already have the framework in place to basically transition to a Swiss-like multi-payer regulated market. Single payer is completely unnecessary.

Bernie would raise my taxes $4,800 according to that calculator.

 

[Hazmat]

Seattle "Stranger" endorses both Hillary and Bernie

I had a dream that Hillary gave me a Seattle Stranger.

 

[Holmes]

And he could go back to school and get another Bachelors.

Isn't that paid by a tax on Wall Street?

 

[User 463088]

I had a dream that Hillary gave me a Seattle Stranger.

Lewd.
She has people that do that shit for her.

 

[Tarkus]

But you would get free health care.

Which doesn't work in this county. Just look at our little microcosm of free universal healthcare, the VA system. It's a complete disaster.

Quote from my friend yesterday: "This VA system is really screwed. I mean I had an overall disconcerting experience today of poor healthcare

I watched a guy have a stroke and fall out in a wheelchair today because there was no access to CT STAT

Had faulty suction equipment x3 with no extra on floor during paracentesis

Guy with ACS sit in the hallway with no bed for 8 hours

Meds given to wrong patient"