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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida

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royalan

Member
Funny enough - out of the 4 Trump supporters I know off the top of my head, only one is a straight white male.

1 Straight White Man
1 White (Atheist) Lesbian Woman
1 Black (Atheist) Lesbian Woman (married to the above)
1 Iraqi (Muslim) Straight Male

I'm curious as to whether anyone can guess why the bottom 3 would vote for Trump over Clinton (hint: unrelated to race). :D

Basing it off real-life interactions...they're supporting Trump because he's not Hillary.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Funny enough - out of the 4 Trump supporters I know off the top of my head, only one is a straight white male.

1 Straight White Man
1 White (Atheist) Lesbian Woman
1 Black (Atheist) Lesbian Woman (married to the above)
1 Iraqi (Muslim) Straight Male

I'm curious as to whether anyone can guess why the bottom 3 would vote for Trump over Clinton (hint: unrelated to race). :D

Well you can always ask them? I've done so with my Trump supporters. The big reason is just a dislike of Hilary. They think Trump is a lesser of two evils and people really care about Benghazi. I have been told Hilary is a war criminal too many times to count in good health.
 

Kangi

Member
Well you can always ask them? I've done so with my Trump supporters. The big reason is just a dislike of Hilary. They think Trump is a lesser of two evils and people really care about Benghazi. I have been told Hilary is a war criminal too many times to count in good health.

So they instead support a candidate whose foreign policy platform is basically just "I'm going to commit war crimes"?
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Answer is: All except the white lesbian (who is married to the black lesbian) are all active duty military.

Clinton is (rightfully) despised by most folks who are in active service for what Bill did (and Hillary supported) during his administration to active duty military. I suspect a high number of minority Trump supporters are active duty or were active duty military.
 

royalan

Member
Answer is: All except the white lesbian (who is married to the black lesbian) are all active duty military.

Clinton is (rightfully) despised by most folks who are in active service for what Bill did (and Hillary supported) during his administration to active duty military. I suspect a high number of minority Trump supporters are active duty or were active duty military.

What did he do?
 
It's interesting then to vote for the party that would even have you married or in the military....

I'm also confused as to what Clinton did?

Like I've heard from military friends they don't like Obama because of how Iraq turned out and they feel like they fought for nothing.
 
I'd recommend The Green Papers

It's not the most user friendly site but they're fast about updating delegates. The information from Demrace is pulled from there.

The Wiki page is nicely presented, far easier to digest, and accurate enough?

Near the top, there's a table with the totals of pledged and un-pledged delegates, for each candidate. Then, in section 5, "Schedule and results of primaries and caucuses", which you can jump to using the links in the Contents section, it has a table with the results for each state.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
As someone who served during the Clinton years, that's pretty dumb.

I can't say I necessarily get it - but the town I grew up has a lot of folks who tend to join the military post HS graduation; and regardless of how liberal they were going into the military; they all came out with a frothing hatred for the Democrats, but especially the Clintons.

EDIT:
What did he do?

I think he reduced their pay significantly? The reason I (personally) say rightfully is that we had one of the actual pilots from the blackhawk down incident come visit (his son was going to our university) and talk, and Clinton a) overruled a military decision with a political decision and b) they felt like Clinton betrayed the soldiers left behind by not letting the US strike back. The military on the ground had a fully armed and loaded...armada would be the best way to describe it, of US soldiers ready to re-engage and finish their mission. The speaker felt like it was a very...personal abandonment of the soldiers in Mogadishu, and from what I can gather, that was echoed throughout much of the military.

EDIT: (It doesn't help that said son was my study partner for 3 out of 5 years at college. As much as I like Bill and Hillary, I think they made a very bad moral decision both in Mogadishu and then in Rwanda because they cared more about their political equity than the lives of hundreds of thousands of Rwandans)

When Rwanda was happening, there was a apparently a massive outcry from many soldiers that we needed to intervene, but because Clinton got burned so hard politically by Mogadishu, he let the Rwandan Genocide happen.

Oddly enough, many of the military cuts started happening under GHWB; but Clinton was the president when they hit home, so he got tagged with it. But I think there's a level of personal anger due to Blackhawk Down and Rwanda that gets people angry (note, all of them are active duty Army specifically, so that's another part of it).
 
Don't Ask Don't Tell
Budget cuts

That's all I really remember, but the cuts made sense as we weren't actually at war.

If they actually blame him for DaDT and would vote for a republican instead they are just plain ignorant. DADT was terrible but he was never going to win that battle at that point against people who explicitly wanted to go farther than that.
 
tumblr_o4nok6fxB01u2n0zzo1_1280.jpg
 
I was in the Army in the later part of the Clinton years and the first half of W's years, people I served with were fantasizing of Bill when I got out
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
I can't imagine it's DADT. How would Trump be any better on that issue? It's probably the budget cuts.

Uh, they did notice that one of them was a lesbian right? Is it just reflex to assume "racist / sexist / homophobic" without..actually reading what was put down? :p
 

dramatis

Member
So I'm reading on ProPublica this article about possible Wisconsin primary troubles also due to voter ID law.

I wonder how Wisconsin will play out in terms of election trouble.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I have a gay friend who supports Trumo. Is apparently anti-establishment. But yer creamed his jeans when he was at Hillary's victory speech in SC. Shrugemote
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Uh, they did notice that one of them was a lesbian right? Is it just reflex to assume "racist / sexist / homophobic" without..actually reading what was put down? :p

I did notice that two were lesbians. I'm not assuming racist/homophobe, I'm just trying to figure out how you go from Hillary to Trump if your issue with Bill was DADT. Like, that doesn't even make sense to me so I just figure it was the budget cuts.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
I have a gay friend who supports Trumo. Is apparently anti-establishment. But yer creamed his jeans when he was at Hillary's victory speech in SC. Shrugemote

People are complicated and weird and awesome. I try not to judge them too much. :D

EDIT:

I did notice that two were lesbians. I'm not assuming racist/homophobe, I'm just trying to figure out how you go from Hillary to Trump if your issue with Bill was DADT.

Ahhh lol no worries. I thought the fact that two of them were lesbian would sort of remove DADT as a reason from most people's guesses. :D

Double Edit: Part of what happened during the downsizing is that the workload was poorly spread out amongst the remaining folks; and it killed military morale. So as new folks came in, they were sort of indoctrinated in this idea of "Bill Clinton dun fucked this all up".
 

ampere

Member
I can understand not liking Bill for whatever reason, but it does seem weird to prefer a Republican candidate for those reasons. Trump being in charge of the military is frightening
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Answer is: All except the white lesbian (who is married to the black lesbian) are all active duty military.

Clinton is (rightfully) despised by most folks who are in active service for what Bill did (and Hillary supported) during his administration to active duty military. I suspect a high number of minority Trump supporters are active duty or were active duty military.

Huh. Mind elaborating?

Half of the Trump supporters I've met in Miami have been younger Haitian or Anglo-Caribbean immigrants who thought undocumented people have too easy of a deal. Each of these four people insisted, though, that they cared most about Trump's amorphous jobs plan.

The one white male Trump supporter I've met was a well-off young gay lawyer who wanted to fuck over the GOP out of spite, due to a local law being signed by Rubio in his days in the senate that fucked over his property ownership. I asked him if Trump's racism bothered him, but he swore that was just a media exaggeration. He was at the precinct campaigning with a Nicaraguan-born woman who mostly liked Trump because she fears a Sanders presidency and thinks only Trump could stop him.

South Florida is a weird area.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Ahhh lol no worries. I thought the fact that two of them were lesbian would sort of remove DADT as a reason from most people's guesses. :D

Double Edit: Part of what happened during the downsizing is that the workload was poorly spread out amongst the remaining folks; and it killed military morale. So as new folks came in, they were sort of indoctrinated in this idea of "Bill Clinton dun fucked this all up".

So it was the budget cuts, that makes sense. If it were DADT I'd spend the next week trying to figure out how they got there.

Huh. Mind elaborating?

Half of the Trump supporters I've met in Miami have been younger Haitian or Anglo-Caribbean immigrants who thought undocumented people have too easy of a deal. Each of these four people insisted, though, that they cared most about Trump's amorphous jobs plan.

The one white male Trump supporter I've met was a well-off young gay lawyer who wanted to fuck over the GOP out of spite, due to a local law being signed by Rubio in his days in the senate that fucked over his property ownership. I asked him if Trump's racism bothered him, but he swore that was just a media exaggeration. He was at the precinct campaigning with a Nicaraguan-born woman who mostly liked Trump because she fears a Sanders presidency and thinks only Trump could stop him.

South Florida is a weird area.

South Florida sounds fucking crazy.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I can feel Trump slipping. He's likely to lose some big primaries ahead. I hope he can still get the nomination.

I think the debates really helped him.

I can understand not liking Bill for whatever reason, but it does seem weird to prefer a Republican candidate for those reasons. Trump being in charge of the military is frightening

Cruz in charge would be way worse. Look at the guy who he chose as his foreign policy adviser.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Huh. Mind elaborating?

Half of the Trump supporters I've met in Miami have been younger Haitian or Anglo-Caribbean immigrants who thought undocumented people have too easy of a deal. Each of these four people insisted, though, that they cared most about Trump's amorphous jobs plan.

The one white male Trump supporter I've met was a well-off young gay lawyer who wanted to fuck over the GOP out of spite, due to a local law being signed by Rubio in his days in the senate that fucked over his property ownership. I asked him if Trump's racism bothered him, but he swore that was just a media exaggeration. He was at the precinct campaigning with a Nicaraguan-born woman who mostly liked Trump because she fears a Sanders presidency and thinks only Trump could stop him.

South Florida is a weird area.

Budget cuts + anger about Somalia & Rwanda is the short version.

EDIT: Cruz is seen as responsible for the sequester. Most of the active duty folks I know despise Cruz for that.
 
Most of Nate's articles this cycle have the same degree of accuracy as the National Enquirer article about Ted Cruz. "Could", "Might", " May", "Possibly". Strong words from a statistician.
I like the recent spiel he's been on about how the media has affected the narrative of the race as if he isn't part of said media and didn't personally have a large hand in crafting Trump's early narrative.
 

sphagnum

Banned
I know of three Trump supporters at work: two young white males (one is 28, the other is in his early 30s) and a white woman in her late 40s. They all have different reasons.

The youngest guy is in the army reserves and is mainly voting for Trump because he hates illegal immigrants and believes that Trump is going to create a military task force to hunt every single one down (which he wants to be a part of). He's also stereotypical alpha male bro in the flesh and idolizes Trump's manliness. One of my other coworkers made him a $100 bet that Trump will lose the general election. I tried to dissuade the Trump supporter, telling him that the electoral college map and demographics makes it almost impossible for him to win, but his reasoning for how Trump will do it is: "He's going to be the only non-politician running and everyone hates Hillary Clinton!" When I asked him which states will flip red to let him win (and had him go to 270towin to demonstrate it) he said Wisconsin, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and New Mexico. So clearly not very intelligent.

The other guy is frankly pretty...dumb. He mostly just talks about sports but sometimes just drops out of nowhere how he thinks Bush did 9/11 and if you just believe in something it can come true. So conspiracy theorist, but more of the casual variety rather than the hardcore. Someone who is low information.

The lady is really nice but works overtime all the time and complains about taxes a lot so I think it's just economics for her.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

Stage 6: Endgame

When it happens: June through Republican National Convention, July 18-21
Potential threat to Trump: The Republican Party does everything in its power to deny him the nomination.

If Trump makes it past Stage 4, we’ll have to consider his campaign successful, up to a point. He’ll have gotten further than any similar candidate has in the past. But he’d still be a long way from winning the nomination, and the final two stages might be his hardest yet.

The Republican Party’s delegate selection rules are straightforward in some states but byzantine in others, especially in caucus states where delegates are sometimes not formally pledged to the candidate who apparently earned their support on election night. Furthermore, about 7 percent of delegates to the RNC are party leaders — what Democrats would call “superdelegates” — who are usually not bound by the results of the popular vote in their states at all.

This introduces a little bit of slack into the system. It works in favor of establishment-backed candidates, or those who have an intricate understanding of the delegate rules. And it works against candidates like Trump.

Regular FiveThirtyEight readers will be familiar with “The Party Decides” paradigm of the nomination process. It posits that the nominee represents the consensus choice of influential members of the party, and that rank-and-file voters serve mostly to vet and validate the candidates in the event of a close call.

Much of the party’s influence consists of what you might call “soft power,” the ability to influence outcomes by persuasion rather than coercion. But the party also has some “hard power”: It literally makes the rules. It can rule against candidates it doesn’t like in the event of delegate-counting disputes. It can probably even change the rules midstream. There isn’t a lot of precedent to worry about violating, since it’s been 40 years since Republicans came close to a brokered convention.

If Trump made it this far, the Republican Party would go to extraordinary lengths to avoid nominating him. In “The Party Decides” view, parties are basically looking for two things from their nominees: They want them to be reliable (meaning, they can be counted on to enact the Republican agenda once in office), and they want them to be electable (meaning, they can win in November). It’s hard to think of a candidate who does worse on those two measures than Trump. He’s exceptionally unpopular among independent voters. But he also has a checkered political past that includes once having supported abortion rights and universal health care. For the Republican Party, he’s the worst of all possible worlds.

So, how do I wind up with that 2 percent estimate of Trump’s nomination chances? It’s what you get3 if you assume he has a 50 percent chance of surviving each subsequent stage of the gantlet.4 Tonight’s debate could prove to be the beginning of the end for Trump, or he could remain a factor for months to come. But he’s almost certainly doomed, sooner or later.
 
I don't think of you as an outspoken Bernie supporter so much as a normal poster who happens to support Bernie, like Aaron Strife.

Fair enough. That's probably more accurate.


As always with these kinds of graphs on racial prejudice, the thing that most surprises me is that over 20% of democrats answered "extremely well" or "very well".

Actually, scratch that. I think the fact that not even 30% of dems answered "not well at all" is the most damning. I'd be curious to see how these results turn out among Trump, R's and D's if you limited it to 18-40 year olds.
 
It's not that voting for Trump over Clinton makes you a racist. It's that preferring Trump to Clinton makes you a racist. The idea is that non-racists would just not have this problem of having to hold their noses and vote for an overt racist in 2016 because their priorities would be such that a candidate being an overt racist is a lot worse than a candidate being a liberal.

I guess I differ in that I think almost every human being ever has acted, politically, in service of their own self-interest, and if lower taxes or less regulation or open access to guns are what perceive as best for you, it seems unrealistic to expect you to not act on that because it's wrapped in packaging you don't like.
 

User1608

Banned
First guy sounds like he really wants to hurt people. Or worse. Flat out insane.

The 2nd dude is harmless and the lady, understandable I guess. My view of Trump supporters is definitely harsh. But at least the last two sound like people I could hang out with.:p
 
So I think something that struck me in reading threads about the Tax Policy Center analyses and the calculator based on it. (Setting aside whether one agrees with how they've gone about distributing things like changes to payroll tax.)

The general mentality seems to be that people are for services but have no intent to actually pay for them. In this regard everybody essentially is looking at their own situation in isolation.

Subsequent arguments against the individual outcomes people state would affect them center around it not capturing benefits to that individual that could be gained in wages or savings in there being no individual outlays for private healthcare. They fight back against the idea that people may ultimately be worse off financially.

But no one seems to want to admit that the "middle class" may have to actually contribute to any sort of universal healthcare and be personally worse off for it. No one seems to actually feel they should even contribute at all. That the point of such a system isn't just for one's own benefit but to ensure everyone has access if necessary.

And that mentality - not corporations and millionaires and billionaires and Wall St - is why I don't expect there to be any sort of universal coverage in the US any time soon.
 

johnsmith

remember me
Oh man, just read the best response to people celebrating Bernie's wins this weekend and how it shows he's making a comeback.

"You ever have a conversation with a climate denier where they say "if the planet is warming, how come it’s cold in winter?""
 
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