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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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Drek

Member
So why not say that Obama made some good SC picks, I think its a bit intellectually dishonest to give him credit for the good SC rulings and not the bad ones or the crazy stuff happening with encryption, etc. etc.
Because the bad ones weren't decided by his picks. He has moved the court substantially to the left with his nominations and did so with comparatively young judges who will likely substantially outlive all of their conservative peers.

I'm glad obama did all of this on his own and controls all three branches of congress as well as the fed!
Yeah, because I was saying Obama did it all himself, lone gunman style. He's the fucking POTUS. The Fed reports directly to him. The fact that he has accomplished as much as he as despite only two years of three branch control and a stated GOP-wide goal of first making him a one term POTUS and when that failed obstructing EVERYTHING he proposed only makes his accomplishments that much more impressive.

He isn't throwing up these wins with unified support like most transformational Presidents get to experience for a substantial portion of their tenure. Hell, he hasn't even been doing it with an adversarial yet honest opposition in control of the House or Senate. He's been doing it with both houses seeded with politicians who think screaming "YOU LIE!" in the middle of the State of the Union is appropriate, that defunding and closing the federal gov't isn't just a good political tactic but a good thing politically, and as the first POTUS serving after Citizen's United leading to literally non-stop partisan hit jobs on all of his legislative efforts (not to mention him and his family personally like basically no other POTUS ever).

He's a fucking marvel.

Iran deal was good negotiating but all of those countries were doing a good job screwing themselves.
Good negotiating stemming from brilliant geo-political gamesmanship, that directly resulted int hose countries setting themselves up for his trap card.

I don't get why its an accomplishment for a liberal president to not appoint conservatives, seems pretty silly to me.
It is an accomplishment to have the acumen and insight into the legal world to be able to consistently pull strong yet progressive candidates out for not just the SCOTUS but also the lower courts. Many Presidents go low interest on the lower courts, Obama has approached them with almost as much fervor and political stage setting as he does SCOTUS appointments. That is how you literally change the future.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...p-table-main_factchecker-1050a:homepage/story

So Washington Post gave Bernie's claim about Clinton's statement 3 Pinocchios.

Clinton's going to have plenty of ammo for the debate. Sanders has received two 3+ Pinocchios in the past week with his oil donation claim and now this.

What a mess! WaPo tried with that headline and now they are backtracking. Bernie was literally click-baited. Messy mess!

Republicans will totally not use Bernie´s claim during the Generals to attack Hillary. What a flop.
 
Because the bad ones weren't decided by his picks. He has moved the court substantially to the left with his nominations and did so with comparatively young judges who will likely substantially outlive all of their conservative peers.


Yeah, because I was saying Obama did it all himself, lone gunman style. He's the fucking POTUS. The Fed reports directly to him. The fact that he has accomplished as much as he as despite only two years of three branch control and a stated GOP-wide goal of first making him a one term POTUS and when that failed obstructing EVERYTHING he proposed only makes his accomplishments that much more impressive.

He isn't throwing up these wins with unified support like most transformational Presidents get to experience for a substantial portion of their tenure. Hell, he hasn't even been doing it with an adversarial yet honest opposition in control of the House or Senate. He's been doing it with both houses seeded with politicians who think screaming "YOU LIE!" in the middle of the State of the Union is appropriate, that defunding and closing the federal gov't isn't just a good political tactic but a good thing politically, and as the first POTUS serving after Citizen's United leading to literally non-stop partisan hit jobs on all of his legislative efforts (not to mention him and his family personally like basically no other POTUS ever).

He's a fucking marvel.


Good negotiating stemming from brilliant geo-political gamesmanship, that directly resulted int hose countries setting themselves up for his trap card.


It is an accomplishment to have the acumen and insight into the legal world to be able to consistently pull strong yet progressive candidates out for not just the SCOTUS but also the lower courts. Many Presidents go low interest on the lower courts, Obama has approached them with almost as much fervor and political stage setting as he does SCOTUS appointments. That is how you literally change the future.

So why not say all of this upfront instead of trying to create nice lists -_-

I agree with all of this for the most part (iran's nuclear power program was designed to be a bargaining chip as the sanctions were screwing them but I guess thats the point of sanctions).

Why not say obama administration also, I don't like the deification of people. We need more obamas but we can always look for people better than obama.

I will bow it now for today as I have a renal exam to study for tomorrow.
 

Drek

Member
So why not say all of this upfront instead of trying to create nice lists -_-
Because I assume everyone knows the issues before they start commenting.

Why not say obama administration also, I don't like the deification of people. We need more obamas but we can always look for people better than obama.
Because it is his admin., he picks the players, he sets the tone, and he makes the final call on all major decisions. It is pretty common to refer to a White House admin. entirely by the POTUS specifically, since they steer the entire ship.

It isn't about deification, it's simply more convenient in all forms of discourse and "administration" is an accepted and widely applied inference when saying "Obama" in a policy sense.
 
Because I assume everyone knows the issues before they start commenting.


Because it is his admin., he picks the players, he sets the tone, and he makes the final call on all major decisions. It is pretty common to refer to a White House admin. entirely by the POTUS specifically, since they steer the entire ship.

It isn't about deification, it's simply more convenient in all forms of discourse and "administration" is an accepted and widely applied inference when saying "Obama" in a policy sense.

Thanks for the casual insult. He makes the final call but its not something he does alone. Regardless it seems we've been arguing the same thing.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Well Clinton did vote for the war, so she was complicit in all the mayhem and death that happened, theres no two ways about it.

Wikipedia said:
The Al-Anfal Campaign was a campaign[61] against the Kurdish people (and many others) in Kurdish regions of Iraq led by the government of Saddam Hussein and headed by Ali Hassan al-Majid. The campaign takes its name from Surat al-Anfal in the Qur'an, which was used as a code name by the former Iraqi Ba'athist administration for a series of attacks against the peshmerga rebels and the mostly Kurdish civilian population of rural Northern Iraq, conducted between 1986 and 1989 culminating in 1988. This campaign also targeted Shabaks and Yazidis, Assyrians, Turkoman people and Mandeans and many villages belonging to these ethnic groups were also destroyed. Human Rights Watch estimates that between 50,000 and 100,000 people were killed.[62] Some Kurdish sources put the number higher, estimating that 182,000 Kurds were killed.[63]

Yeah, totally similar.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Linking 20-40 dollar books to support your internet argument with zero written arguments and context.

Hmm.

It's why people stopped responding to him.

If you can't be bothered to make your own argument, don't bother starting a conversation. Sources are meant to back up your position, not as a way to be lazy about making an argument.
 

Armaros

Member
Im sure its better than making straw man statements and wrapping them in quotes.

As opposed to a page of arguments because people refer to the Obama's Administration by just his name and getting all fussy about semantic naming. And using that reasoning to diminish what he has accomplished.

And accusing people of deifying Obama, when we have the current political climate of "Bernie Sanders can do no wrong" even here on GAF.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Colombia gets gay marriage. Yay.

I just saw. They're the 32nd nation in the world to recognize it, I believe. It's crazy how fast this started moving in the last 8 years or so.

Also, obligatory:

WtHLjSN.gif
 
As opposed to a page of arguments because people refer to the Obama's Administration by just his name and getting all fussy about semantic naming. And using that reasoning to diminish what he has accomplished.

And accusing people of deifying Obama, when we have the current political climate of "Bernie Sanders can do no wrong" even here on GAF.

I dont think that climate exists in this thread nor have I not been critical on sanders. I made some good argument but if you want to ignore them because I do not unilaterally praise obama or his administration or his supreme court or congress or w/e, its your choice.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
How much can a sitting president do when it comes to endorsing a candidate?

It's usually not done in a primary for fear of tearing a party apart. Usually they just wait for it to be decided then officially endorse, but most make it pretty clear who they prefer.

23rd, but yes.

PENNY YASSS

Damn, got the number backwards. I knew it was a 2 and a 3 though.

I haven't seen this gif in a long time!

Yup. I missed it.
 

hawk2025

Member
If we are talking about the crippling effects of economic sanctions with no additional information other than book links, perhaps we should talk about the crippling effects of tariffs and trade restrictions under the guise of protecting american jobs as well.


Never said they were similar, but both have blood on their hands. And its worse coming from Clinton because she is supposed to be a citizen of the enlightened US of A, part of the "progressive" party to boot.

And if we are playing this false equivalency game, perhaps we should also check if Sanders has ever voted for any kind of military intervention that would surely mean all three have blood on their hands.
 
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/275513-white-house-clinton-qualified-to-be-president

well sanders has finally forced obama's hand in the debate

albeit only slightly and in a very careful fashion; typical obama

I would not call this

“She can govern and she can start here, day one, more experienced than any non-vice president has ever been who aspires to this office,” he added.

slightly, even though it's not an outright approval.
 
Man, I thought Gaf has been down for a day but it's just https.

But maybe I need to go back to it being down what with this conversation at again.
 

East Lake

Member
Linking 20-40 dollar books to support your internet argument with zero written arguments and context.

Hmm.
Hmm? The person I quoted thought it was a horrible joke, but it turns out there might be some truth to it. Read the descriptions! I don't think it's a requirement that I go into minute detail on every post I make but if people want to debate the Iraq sanctions that's cool. If you're actually interested I think Hans von Sponeck has a few articles you can look through, although obviously not as comprehensive as the book. I don't think his book got many reviews, but Joy Gordon's is from Harvard Press. You might even call that the establishment!
 

gaugebozo

Member
Bernie shouldnt have personalized it. It was as easy to say "her campaign is saying". I am losing patience with him tbh.

Anyway...WOW the scalping in this new ad

https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/1024143807640623/

Doesn't the fact he's out fundrasing her and Trump is winning on the GOP side kinda say this whole money buys elections is bullshit?


Maybe it buys things on the local level but its not like bernie cares about that.

The nation is spelled with two o's, the school has a u as does the district.

thats the joke.gif
 

Armaros

Member
If we are talking about the crippling effects of economic sanctions with no additional information other than book links, perhaps we should talk about the crippling effects of tariffs and trade restrictions under the guise of protecting american jobs as well.

What has never been talked about in the general news sphere is what would happen to the poorest nations of the world that rely on free trade agreements to be more then just agrarian nations barely surviving year by year, day by day, if Sanders got his isolationism trade agenda passed.
 
I would not call this



slightly, even though it's not an outright approval.

What's interesting is that when I listened to Bill Simmons Podcast with Favreu (former speechwriter) about stuff, one thing he mentioned was that how when Hillary was SoS, Obama asked her for her input on everything. Not just international issues, but on everything under the sun. He didn't do that with anyone else.

For those that think Obama merely picked her because of optics, the truth is he really does value her opinion and wanted her in his cabinet to help him, especially in the beginning.


Bernie's whole unqualified line is pretty ridiculous. I mean, is there any person in the world more qualified than her, in reality? She's served in two administrations at the top. She's done public service for decades. Worked in the Senate. Worked internationally. I mean, what other credentials could you possibly get?

Now, I'm not arguing being qualified for the job means you should have the job because there are Republicans that are qualified too and fuck them. Trump is unqualified to be President. He doesn't understand how the government actually operates. Hillary is as qualified as anyone could be...
 

East Lake

Member
What has never been talked about in the general news sphere is what would happen to the poorest nations of the world that rely on free trade agreements to be more then just agrarian nations barely surviving year by year, day by day, if Sanders got his isolationism trade agenda passed.
Is this an argument btw, what qualifies? That it has no links in it?
 

ApharmdX

Banned
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...-sanders-qualified-response-trump-cruz-221674

I give Hillary a ton of credit, her response to Sanders calling her unqualified was extremely gracious:

“I don’t know why he’s saying that, but I will take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz anytime," the Democratic candidate told reporters outside Yankee Stadium in the Bronx at an impromptu news conference before riding the subway.

That's a good look for a president.

Just called up some of the family in PA.

That "unqualified" comment reaaaaally just rubbed my female cousins and aunts the wrong way. Granted, they were for Hillldawg before, but Sanders never really pissed them off until now.

I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.
 
Bernie shouldnt have personalized it. It was as easy to say "her campaign is saying". I am losing patience with him tbh.

Anyway...WOW the scalping in this new ad

https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/1024143807640623/

Except, Bernie often goes to the DSCC retreats where the bundlers are given a chance to meet with Congresscritters. He doesn't seem to mind taking the private planes, the free hotels, the boat trips, and the rest of it. Plus, he has no qualms taking money from the DSCC. So....maybe a teaspoon of consistency would be nice on this issue.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.

Most people I know felt the "too ambitious" thing that came out of his camp was the really sexist remark. Hell, the Onion had a joke article about that sort of thing back in 2008.

I meant like legally, can he do fundraising and speak at events and stuff?

If he wanted to, sure. It's just not done until the primary is over for obvious reasons.
 
He does realize his campaign been outspending her's right? Just saying, glass houses and all.

How much money you spend is not the issue, but how much of that money is already committed to groups donating and their particular interests, instead of the people voting for the candidate. Now the candidate has to dance a tango between their pandering promises to the voters and the pre-installed compromises already set by big donors.
 
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