PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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ApharmdX said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...-sanders-qualified-response-trump-cruz-221674

I give Hillary a ton of credit, her response to Sanders calling her unqualified was extremely gracious:



That's a good look for a president.



I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.
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Because women are always told they're unqualified when they are. I don't believe for a second that Bernie even remotely had that in the back of his mind, of course. But for women it's a buzzword.

Like when men call them "crazy" or "that time of the month" bullshit. It's something women have had to fight through. Truth is, women often have to be "more qualified" than a man to get a job.
 
Melkr_ said:
How much money you spend is not the issue, but how much of that money is already committed to groups donating and their particular interests, instead of the people voting for the candidate. Now the candidate has to dance a tango between their pandering promises to the voters and the pre-installed compromises already set by big donors.
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So it's just another assertion that she's bought and paid for then? If he wants to say that he should just say it and not dance around it.
 
ApharmdX said:
I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.
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It's really not a stretch, although I don't think Bernie meant it in a sexist way. I think he meant it in "I'm a ass, especially when I'm not getting my way." Look, there is no one in their right mind who doesn't think Hillary Freaking Clinton isn't insanely qualified to be President. People may not like her, may not think she's ideologically in line with them, but to say she's not qualified is a lie of epic proportions. There is no one in the modern era who is more qualified than she is. Period. Full stop.

So, when someone makes such an obviously idiotic statement, it's natural to look at what differentiates her from another candidate. If Bernie is saying he's qualified with his paper thin resume, then I think it's a bit natural for people to try and see what's the difference between the two. Gender jumps off the page.

Women are socialized to believe that they have to work twice as hard for half as much. As a society, we internalize that and just go with it. Women are always accused of being "ambitious," like it's unseemly for a woman to have any aims other than what we've collectively decided she should have. Bernie's campaign used the ambition line against her a few days ago.

So, I don't think Bernie meant this in an overly sexist way. But, when you combine a lot of the things his campaign has said over the last few months, reading slight sexism in this particular attack isn't entirely outside the realm of logical interpretation.
 
backslashbunny said:
No, I'm pretty sure he rejects all of that and eats fast food and drives a shitty Budget rental and stays at a Holiday Inn like the rest of us normal people.

Surprised President Obama said anything TBH. I thought that usually you wait until the primary is over before endorsing one person, otherwise favoritism?
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Eh. The primary is over. Whether or not Bernie realizes is it is another matter.
 
backslashbunny said:
No, I'm pretty sure he rejects all of that and eats fast food and drives a shitty Budget rental and stays at a Holiday Inn like the rest of us normal people.

Surprised President Obama said anything TBH. I thought that usually you wait until the primary is over before endorsing one person, otherwise favoritism?
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He technically still hasn't endorsed her, he's still within what president's usually do. Presidents do usually try and make it clear who they prefer during the primary, they just don't come straight out and say, "This is my guy."
 
Black Mamba said:
Bernie's whole unqualified line is pretty ridiculous. I mean, is there any person in the world more qualified than her, in reality? She's served in two administrations at the top. She's done public service for decades. Worked in the Senate. Worked internationally. I mean, what other credentials could you possibly get?

Now, I'm not arguing being qualified for the job means you should have the job because there are Republicans that are qualified too and fuck them. Trump is unqualified to be President. He doesn't understand how the government actually operates. Hillary is as qualified as anyone could be...
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When Bernie says "qualified" he means they get his moral seal of approval. It's the whole Berniecrats thing where you have to fit in his box, or you are the establishment and you aren't qualified due to being what he considers corrupt

It's ridiculous, but that's what I see
 
Black Mamba said:
What's interesting is that when I listened to Bill Simmons Podcast with Favreu (former speechwriter) about stuff, one thing he mentioned was that how when Hillary was SoS, Obama asked her for her input on everything. Not just international issues, but on everything under the sun. He didn't do that with anyone else.

For those that think Obama merely picked her because of optics, the truth is he really does value her opinion and wanted her in his cabinet to help him, especially in the beginning.


Bernie's whole unqualified line is pretty ridiculous. I mean, is there any person in the world more qualified than her, in reality? She's served in two administrations at the top. She's done public service for decades. Worked in the Senate. Worked internationally. I mean, what other credentials could you possibly get?

Now, I'm not arguing being qualified for the job means you should have the job because there are Republicans that are qualified too and fuck them. Trump is unqualified to be President. He doesn't understand how the government actually operates. Hillary is as qualified as anyone could be...
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Yeah I agree. The only person NOT qualified that's still in the race is El Trumpo.
 
backslashbunny said:
No, I'm pretty sure he rejects all of that and eats fast food and drives a shitty Budget rental and stays at a Holiday Inn like the rest of us normal people.

Surprised President Obama said anything TBH. I thought that usually you wait until the primary is over before endorsing one person, otherwise favoritism?
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My assumption is Sanders is really pissing people off more so then usual. The unqualified remark, in the wake of that interview along with it being highly unlikely he wins enough to get the pledged count might be pushing some to the limit they have for him. The fact that it provoked a response from the White House should be taken as a slap across the face for Sanders and his campaign. I do wonder if they realized just how badly they crossed the line. That was as close to an endorsement you're going to get in a primary season I think. It was assumed of course but that made it more real I think.
 
B-Dubs said:
He technically still hasn't endorsed her, he's still within what president's usually do. Presidents do usually try and make it clear who they prefer during the primary, they just don't come straight out and say, "This is my guy."
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He's pretty much right at the limit of what he can/should do. This is kind of like dad getting mad and scolding one of the kids for stepping out of line.

Come to think of it, when was the last time there was a hotly (kind of) contested primary with a sitting President of the same party?
 
B-Dubs said:
So it's just another assertion that she's bought and paid for then? If he wants to say that he should just say it and not dance around it.
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Call it corruption, call it whatever. But it is what it is. Bernie has no donation compromises, Clinton does.

Are those commitments in sync with the needs of people not in positions of monetary or social status power? Maybe, maybe not.

SlimySnake said:
God i am starting to hate this guy more and more everyday. Intellectually dishonest.
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You hate him because he says the truth or hate him because he says a truth you would prefer not to admit?
 
Melkr_ said:
Call it corruption, call it whatever. But it is what it is. Bernie has no donation compromises, Clinton does.

Are those commitments in sync with the needs of people not in positions of monetary or social status power? Maybe, maybe not.



You hate him because he says the truth or hate him because he says a truth you would prefer not to admit?
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At least Hillary's never taken money from HRC, Planned Parenthood and NARAL, then thrown them under the bus when they didn't support him without question.

Bernie took money from HillPAC, Hillary's leadership PAC back in 2008.
 
Hazmat said:
He's pretty much right at the limit of what he can/should do. This is kind of like dad getting mad and scolding one of the kids for stepping out of line.

Come to think of it, when was the last time there was a hotly (kind of) contested primary with a sitting President of the same party?
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2008 with the Republicans, but George W Bush was so reviled by that point that no one wanted his endorsement. Al Gore intentionally distanced himself from Clinton in 2000 (which was probably a mistake). George H W Bush won a landslide in the 1988 primaries... so, yeah, I don't know.
 
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
 
I dont think Bernie's attack is sexist based, but to be honest I wouldn't mind if Hillary played the sexism card against this attack. She has every right to do so. As mamba said, she is the most qualified person on earth to be the potus. Voting one way or another doesn't disqualify you. Having a neboulus, childish understanding of how law works does.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
2008 with the Republicans, but George W Bush was so reviled by that point that no one wanted his endorsement. Al Gore intentionally distanced himself from Clinton in 2000 (which was probably a mistake). George H W Bush won a landslide in the 1988 primaries... so, yeah, I don't know.
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Ted Kennedy? He primary´d Carter, and Clinton could be seen as Obama 3.0 :p
 
Azzanadra said:
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
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lol

Maybe. Will Canada apply his idea of restricting international work visas? That might complicate things a tad.
 
Azzanadra said:
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
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Please, take him.
 
RustyNails said:
I dont think Bernie's attack is sexist based, but to be honest I wouldn't mind if Hillary played the sexism card against this attack. She has every right to do so. As mamba said, she is the most qualified person on earth to be the potus. Voting one way or another doesn't disqualify you. Having a neboulus, childish understanding of how law works does.
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Ehhh I wish she wouldn't.

She totally could, but I'm pretty sensitive to coded language, and I really don't think anything in this attack strikes me as sexist. I think trying to latch this attack onto the coded words of underqualified women could backfire.
 
Azzanadra said:
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
Click to expand...

I'd rather the NDP pick a leader who's actually willing to advocate for greater Palestinian access to ICC and UNHRC investigations.
I think people underestimate an importance that the States maintaining a cohesive, goal-oriented, foreign policy is. Especially liberals in allied Western states.
 
I wouldn't specifically pull the sexism card. Let people infer it if they want. If you come right out and say it, it makes people take a closer look and think things through too much. Her response was probably the right answer, even though I'd be cutting bitches wigs up.
 
PBY said:
Ehhh I wish she wouldn't.

She totally could, but I'm pretty sensitive to coded language, and I really don't think anything in this attack strikes me as sexist. I think trying to latch this attack onto the coded words of underqualified women could backfire.
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I think she has enough latitude here to use it. It might even stick. I dont think Bernie had any right to lay those claims. At least against Obama, it kinda made sense. He wasn't experienced enough.
 
ApharmdX said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...-sanders-qualified-response-trump-cruz-221674

I give Hillary a ton of credit, her response to Sanders calling her unqualified was extremely gracious:



That's a good look for a president.
Click to expand...

ivysaur12 said:
Here, I have this for you Hill:

"I did not call Bernie Sanders unqualified to be president. What I said was that the American people will decide who is the most qualified to be president. Look, I'm going to agree with something that Senator Sanders said earlier in the campaign: Even on our worst days, both of us are still better than any of our Republicans opponents. That's something that was as true at the beginning of the campaign as it is today."

Then go into all the shitty things Trump and Cruz have said.

Boom. You win.
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SHE LISTENED TO ME.

SHE FUCKING LISTENED TO ME.
 
Melkr_ said:
You hate him because he says the truth or hate him because he says a truth you would prefer not to admit?
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He is going to use that cash she's raising if he becomes the nominee. So will democrats running for office later this year. I am 'starting' to hate him because he's taking a stance that is painting Hillary as dishonest just because she's better at campaigning than he is.
 
equippedwithtowel said:
I'd rather the NDP pick a leader who's actually willing to advocate for greater Palestinian access to ICC and UNHRC investigations.
I think people underestimate an importance that the States maintaining a cohesive, goal-oriented, foreign policy is. Especially liberals in allied Western states.
Click to expand...

Funny to bring up Palestine here of all places, especially because of Clinton's love of Israel; means the Palestinian people will be taking the L for another 8 years. Bernie's stance aint perfect either, but its helluva a lot better.
 
ApharmdX said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...-sanders-qualified-response-trump-cruz-221674

I give Hillary a ton of credit, her response to Sanders calling her unqualified was extremely gracious:



That's a good look for a president.



I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.
Click to expand...
when his campaign guy says that Hillary's ambition is dangerous but then is okay with Bernie's ambition, that has a sexist undertone about ambitious women while the old man is okay

*edit, that Weaver guy, that's his name
 
Azzanadra said:
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
Click to expand...
Sanders cannot be the new leader of the NDP. Mulcair needs to stay where he is.
 
ugaboga232 said:
Thanks for the casual insult. He makes the final call but its not something he does alone. Regardless it seems we've been arguing the same thing.
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It wasn't meant as a casual insult, I apologize if my brusque style of dialogue made it read as though it was. I just don't see how someone can critique Obama without already equipping themselves with a thorough understanding of those issues.

ApharmdX said:
I don't see how this is an issue of sexism, at all. That's a major stretch.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but only if you ignore that "unqualified", "ambitious", and various other terminology used by key members of the Sanders campaign are historical dog whistles used to denigrate women by men.

I'm sure Sanders didn't mean his "unqualified" statement in that sense. I'd bet my house on Weaver's "too ambitious" statement trying to do exactly that however. The Sanders campaign is using language that the feminist movement have had to deal with from men talking down at them for decades and shouldn't be surprised if the reaction they get from women is uniquely negative.
 
Azzanadra said:
Funny to bring up Palestine here of all places, especially because of Clinton's love of Israel; means the Palestinian people will be taking the L for another 8 years. Bernie's stance aint perfect either, but its helluva a lot better.
Click to expand...

It's impressive you know what Bernie's stance on Israel/Palestine is, because it's typically a word salad, Palinesque mess of arhetorical jumble. See his most recent interview for confirmation.
 
Azzanadra said:
From this thread one would think Bernie was Satan himself, even worse than Trump.

Honestly maybe its bets he not become president, I fear for his well-being and life based on the vitriolic messages on the board, and I rather not lose a gem over a country that doesn't deserve him. Could we have Bernie Sanders, America? We are currently looking for a new leader of the NDP party.
Click to expand...

lol. no one here is advocating Trump over Bernie.

Also, it's so annoying when people say something like we don't deserve Bernie as our President. I don't think he'd be a better President than Hillary. In fact, I don't think Bernie has a good grasp of being President. His comments on international affairs are scary. His comments on passing his agenda are even scarier.

I'll take him any day over any Republican. But why do we not deserve him? What is so special about Bernie? IMO, he's a mediocre Democrat.
 
tumblr_inline_nxq7mfvjnI1tb44w9_500.gif


BILL GODDAMNIT
 
Drek said:
It wasn't meant as a casual insult, I apologize if my brusque style of dialogue made it read as though it was. I just don't see how someone can critique Obama without already equipping themselves with a thorough understanding of those issues.
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Well other than the dodd frank stuff which I noted, I think I have a decent understanding especially on healthcare and the iran deals.
 
Black Mamba said:
lol. no one here is advocating Trump over Bernie.

Also, it's so annoying when people say something like we don't deserve Bernie as our President. I don't think he'd be a better President than Hillary. In fact, I don't think Bernie has a good grasp of being President. His comments on international affairs are scary. His comments on passing his agenda are even scarier.

I'll take him any day over any Republican. But why do we not deserve him? What is so special about Bernie? IMO, he's a mediocre Democrat.
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And thats a good thing. The Democrat party is a joke, a centre-right (at best, centrist) party masquerading as a leftist party.
 
ugaboga232 said:
Well other than the dodd frank stuff which I noted, I think I have a decent understanding especially on healthcare and the iran deals.
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Let me add this:

Nearly every week I walk into a seminar series on healthcare with people collecting data, estimating shit, and trying to understand the impact of our past system, our current system, and the best way to move towards our future system.

I have only one categoric conclusion so far: No one has a decent understanding on healthcare. We have some understanding. We know some aspects of it more than others. But no one has a truly, honest-to-goodness decent understanding!
 
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