PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
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But wouldnt anything Rand comes up with be even worse? Like they want to go back to the time where you didnt get health insurance unless you were employed.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I think he is being facetious here.
neurosisxeno
Member
Most likely. Rand Paul--as a Libertarian--would rather completely gut Obamacare and instead favor some kind of community level plans where you exchange work for healthcare or some craziness.
I think he's just an idiot. Likely trying to play both sides since Rand has hitched his wagon to the "this is Obamacare 2.0" crowd. It's going to fail.
whyamihere
Banned
lol
Mighty Chin
Banned
Was there some Wiki-Leaks drop today to distract from all the Trump nonsense?
I read that as Trump saying Rand will eventually fall in line with Ryan's great plan because Obamacare sux worse. "With the" instead of "with a".
But it's trump words mean nothing so who knows. I hope he's bailing for entertainment purposes.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The point is this was clearly intended to never even touch a 60 vote filibuster or be the reason for a nuke of the 60 vote filibuster.
There's also option 3, modify it into something that can get past the senate parliamentarian.
We are talking about an environment where Elizabeth Warren was allowed to be censored for criticizing Sessions on a crazy reading of senate rules.
lol
So, basically the two most important questions
whyamihere
Banned
The chances of them even doing super sneaky not nuclear but actually nuclear for Trumpcare is very low.
I mean, maybe they go nuclear later, but not now. And they're certainly not doing it for this bill.
Officerrob
Banned
lol
Minor details
RastaMentality
Banned
What would McConnell even go nuclear over? whats most important for the party in congress?
whyamihere
Banned
SCOTUS.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It's not a super low chance at all. This has been openly talked about for months. They absolutely love the idea of partly nuking the filibuster this way because it 100% cannot be used to increase spending.
Them going forward with this bill labeled litterally titled as budget reconciliation shows their intent to use this process.
And for the record, vox doesn't even call it "nearly impossible" which is why I questioned your reading of the article. An interpretation of the rules that's "really hard to defend" and goes against senate norms is certainly not impossible with these republicans. That's exactly the words I would use to call the censuring of Warren. There was even speculation at the time that the whole Warren censure was another trial balloon for this upcoming senate rule battle on budget reconciliation.
I would be telling you to wait and see this become a really hot issue soon, but sounds like this bill is going to die in the house before any of it can happen.
whyamihere
Banned
I mean, this reads like you don't understand any of the power players in the Republican caucus, the dynamics of why the filibuster is important to the current Senate leadership, or if there are even 50 votes to nuke the filibuster, but okay!!
They used budget reconciliation to repeal Obamacare, which they can do. They cannot use it to pass a new bill, unless you believe that the entire Senate is behind Ted Cruz's methods, which, lol.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
lol, it's not even fooling 100% of his diehards. The whole bullshit lie he came up with backfired worse than most of his bullshit.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
lol
Nothing to worry about.
neurosisxeno
Member
Ah, good distinction. I think my mind just assumed he meant the latter.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I am 100% not talking about them nuking the filibuster. I am talking about them stretching the rules around budget reconciliation, which can be used as a tool to get around the filibuster, but is still extremely different from nuking the filibuster as there are many other restrictions to budget reconciliation. Why do you keep conflating it like i'm talking about them nuking the filibuster? And why do you think they titled it a budget reconciliation bill if they don't plan on using budget reconciliation?
Reread that vox article to see what sort of norms I expect them to break, which are not the filibuster. I don't expect them to go full nuclear on senate rules altogether like ted cruz, but I do expect them to try to expand the definition of budget reconciliation. The senate parliamentarian isn't exactly an infallible judge, and I already said why I believe that is the case.
McConnell is clearly not a warrior for senate norms given his role in obstruction of Obama. He is potentially worried about giving up the democrats as useful cover for certain house bills not passing, but this still gives him tons of power in saying what is and is not acceptable as budget reconciliation, while still maintaining complete cover of blaming democrats when bills they don't like passes. It also has other limitations baked in to make it not benefit Democrats as much if they were to gain power.
And I think people are really overselling establishment pushback against this bill for going too far. The pushback for it going too far is almost entirely from the outside. The pushback on the inside are entirely from the ones that think this doesn't go far enough. Between worries about a blowback if they do nothing, knowledge that need the freedom caucus to pass it, and a personal want for obamacare to be repealed, this is not a bill McConnell wants to hold up.
To say otherwise seems to me like a deep misunderstanding of republican interparty dynamics and senate rules.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
He became president last tuesday night, don't you know?
Tranqueris
Banned
That feels like it happened a full month ago.
neurosisxeno
Member
I don't even think this bill will get 50 votes if they tried to ram it through the Senate. We already have what like 4-5 Republican's who aren't happy with it and every Democrat against it? This is all assuming it even clears the House which I highly doubt.
whyamihere
Banned
tbh this seems like your post, but I gues we'll see!
Box of Kittens
Banned
I mean, the thing about Republican intraparty dynamics right now is they don't even seem to be a functional party at the federal level. That we're this far in and they've done essentially nothing with a trifecta is not a sign of strength.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
We probably wont if this fails in the House.
And I wish I least knew what your objection is since I know I'm sometimes wrong. I've probably been making a mistake trying to guess at it and arguing to that. But if you don't want to tell me why I'm wrong, whatever.
Oh please.
Portman: i dont like it!!!
*mcconnell changes a letter on the cover*
Portman: it is fixed!!!!
they are not passing up a chance to repeal obamacare. DO U PPL UNDERSTAND THAT
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Someone on fox just tried to pass the idea that young people just don't want to buy insurance, but they forget that millennials can't really afford it unless they work at a place with good insurance. Not many millennials can pay 350 a month for healthcare, 500 a month for student loans, rent, cost of living, food, etc
Mr.Shrugglesã
Banned
Russian Maddow is working overtime. Good stuff.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Exactly.
I have a lot more hope in house republicans thinking good is the enemy of perfect than senate republicans actually acting on their more moderate statements.
I was thinking the same thing at first. Read it again. He wants Rand to come along with the new plan. Trump is shit at wording. His brain don't work well.
Also that's the wrong tweet
whyamihere
Banned
The House introduced its bill without any Senate consideration with that chamber holding a 2-seat majority. Yes, there's obvious room to fuck this up, especially if they're not allowed to use reconciliation, which they probably won't be able to!
neurosisxeno
Member
I'm just thinking about how monumentally stupid Jason Chaffetz iPhone comment really was. He's literally saying that spending on Healthcare should take precedent over literally everything that drives our economy. Nah man, who needs people buying Cars, Electronics, Homes, or going out to Eat when they could spend all of their funds on Health Insurance! I'm sure this won't cost any jobs...
When was the last time the senate didn't dramatically disappoint you?
whyamihere
Banned
There hasn't been literally any legislation of consequence passed since 2010, so, idk!
metalslimer
Member
The freedom caucus isn't voting for something they have branded obamacare light. A full repeal has a better chance of passing
Edit: Hawaii is challenging the new ban
Edit: Hawaii is challenging the new ban
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Obama did this
whyamihere
Banned
Fixed
neurosisxeno
Member
How? He's from Kenya....
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I dunno, I think this could be passed. I'm sure changes can be made to appeal to the Freedom Caucus.
But I don't see how that would be anything other than political suicide at this point. What it would do to the healthcare market is disastrous.
I also need to see what AARP says about it.
But I don't see how that would be anything other than political suicide at this point. What it would do to the healthcare market is disastrous.
I also need to see what AARP says about it.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
In any case, Paul Ryan still sees this as an unfilibustable budget reconciliation bill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWBZkjbR7hE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWBZkjbR7hE
metalslimer
Member
The freedom caucus wants a straight up repeal. I'm not sure what changes besides scrapping this could make this appealing to them
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I don't see how this passes. No one messes with seniors.
The last time they tried to was 2006 and we all know what happened then.
You don't even need to actually be against seniors. "Death panels" was enough in 2010.
They released a whole bunch of files that detail some of the ways that the CIA spies on everyone electronically. Some people are trying to spread the idea that the CIA uses this stuff to change the appearance of where a hack came from and that the CIA were the ones who hacked the DNC and Podesta but made it look like Russia so they could blame them.
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