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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
CygnusXS said:
Maybe they think it's like one of those things where if you go all the away over to one side, you end up on the other side. Keep pushing until no one has healthcare, and then everyone will have healthcare.
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Ah, PacManning! The worst Manning since Peyton.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
sc0la said:
lol nowpolitico is saying trump may push changes to get freedom caucus on board. All those changes involve making more people lose insurance than earlier projected by CBO. How does that remotely help their prospects lol
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Basically if the bill can't pass anyway then there's no reason to doctor it up with a bunch of stuff that people hate. Just pass a full repeal through the House, then blame the Dems for killing it with the filibuster.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
CygnusXS said:
Maybe they think it's like one of those things where if you go all the away over to one side, you end up on the other side. Keep pushing until no one has healthcare, and then everyone will have healthcare.
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So they're a really, really stupid version of Syndrome.

"When everyone has Health Care, No One Does"

P->Q

"If No One has Healthcare, Everyone Will"

P!->Q!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
They might as well do anything they can to get it passed the house right now anyway, since the senate's going to probably significantly change the bill either way. It'll be a lot easier to tell the freedom caucus that it's better than nothing after the senate rejects everything that goes too far for or can't apply to senate 50 vote rules.

Basically don't waste time arguing that things won't pass senate. Just prove it by sending it to the senate.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
pigeon said:
Basically if the bill can't pass anyway then there's no reason to doctor it up with a bunch of stuff that people hate. Just pass a full repeal through the House, then blame the Dems for killing it with the filibuster.
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Might be worse though. Their hypothetical plan kicking 24 million people off their health insurance might be better still than a hypothetical plan to kick 30+ million people off with no protections for pre-existing conditions etc

Actually I don't know. They don't either. No one knows what the fuck they're doing.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Might be worse though. Their hypothetical plan kicking 24 million people off their health insurance might be better still than a hypothetical plan to kick 30+ million people off with no protections for pre-existing conditions etc
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Keeping pre-existing conditions doesn't matter if nobody can afford the healthcare. That's the whole idea. The law isn't poorly crafted, they knew exactly what they were doing. The 6 pages about Lottery Winners, the first section being about Planned Parenthood, removing the individual mandate and replacing it with a bullshit surcharge, block granting Medicaid--this is all designed to do one thing, make the Health Insurance system as we know it collapse. There's no way this doesn't end up harming Insurance companies and legitimately killing people.

Yea, you can get health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but you'll have to pay $2000 a month for it--which almost nobody who needs Insurance can afford anyway.
 
S

sangreal

Member
You could get insurance with pre-existing conditions pre-ACA too as long as it was group insurance provided by your employer. This bill takes us back to that point since it's the only way you'll be able to afford insurance
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
neurosisxeno said:
Keeping pre-existing conditions doesn't matter if nobody can afford the healthcare. That's the whole idea. The law isn't poorly crafted, they knew exactly what they were doing. The 6 pages about Lottery Winners, the first section being about Planned Parenthood, removing the individual mandate and replacing it with a bullshit surcharge, block granting Medicaid--this is all designed to do one thing, make the Health Insurance system as we know it collapse. There's no way this doesn't end up harming Insurance companies and legitimately killing people.

Yea, you can get health insurance with a pre-existing condition, but you'll have to pay $2000 a month for it--which almost nobody who needs Insurance can afford anyway.
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Problem is a lot of middle-of-the-road dumbasses will argue for "keeping the good parts" of ACA without seeing the big picture. You can't hold onto the pre-existing conditions protection or letting people under 26 stay on their parents' plans (seemingly the two most popular reforms) without the mandate, so it would collapse immediately. But keeping those provisions while repealing everything else looks better for the short-term, surface level politicking.

If AHCA passes it will completely blow up in their faces, yes. But the way I see it, they probably think they're closing off an avenue of attack by the Democrats if they're like "oh yeah, can't deny coverage, but you can make it hella expensive YOLO MAGA!!!"

Now, they're wrong but I'd imagine that's the logic.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
kirblar said:
Basically, it's a EO to draft a proposal for that Nixon shit of merging agencies.
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That's what I gathered, but it seems to have literally no substance. I imagine there will be a few heads of agencies that outright say they don't see any purpose in what they do and they will try and get rid of them. Is there anything that can be done if that happens? Can an entity sue claiming that the EPA is in the best interest of the American people and should remain intact?

Aaron Strife said:
Now, they're wrong but I'd imagine that's the logic.
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Oh I know it is. It's just silly to point that any parts of the ACA would be left when that means nothing given how the AHCA is designed. This bullshit idea of ensuring everyone has "access" to Healthcare while making it so expensive only the wealthy can afford it...
 
C

Chumley

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgoloYDYLRA

Hit me with that good shit, Alex.

"Polio vaccines cause polio."

Holy fuck, that went too far, man. This like that flesh eating heroin in Russia, it's too fucking strong, holy fuck.
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Living life with zero sense of humor must not be very fun.

Not that there aren't a hundred other things deeply wrong with this guy, but I've met a lot of people like him who literally do not laugh at anything ever, and it never fails to creep me out.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
So is trump the new Nixon without the charm or the new Carter without the human decency. I lost track this week.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
sphagnum said:
National ID = mark of the beast
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so I was just thinking but I've never heard evangelicals complain about social security even though I've heard them go crazy about stuff like this. And plus, maybe my memory of Revelation is off but wouldn't the Mark of the Beast need to be like from the UN or something to even make some semblance of sense as a conspiracy?
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
so I was just thinking but I've never heard evangelicals complain about social security even though I've heard them go crazy about stuff like this. And plus, maybe my memory of Revelation is off but wouldn't the Mark of the Beast need to be like from the UN or something to even make some semblance of sense as a conspiracy?
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Conservatives hate the UN. They frequently claim the UN has declared Religion some kind of disease and that Obama was complicit in helping them "cure/contain" it. Some of these Conservative conspiracy theories are so outlandish it's almost impressive.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new contender for "Most infuriating republican":

Kyle Feldscher
Kyle Feldscher‏ @Kyle_Feldscher

Mick Mulvaney on MSNBC on rich getting a tax cut on Trumpcare: "Who cares if somebody else benefits?"

"Why do you have to have a system that punishes somebody to help somebody else?"

"Why would it be bad if folks benefit from a small tax deduction at the same time?"
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"Small tax deduction." Screw you, Mulvaney.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Diablos said:
Anyone saying this bill is dead is speaking too soon I think. No one can really know what the fuck they're doing.
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This is true, but either way it's not a good look for the GOP. Either they are incapable of doing the one thing they have promised to do for the past 7 years (likely depressing 2018 turnout) or they fuck over tens of millions of people (resulting in angry voters going to polls in 2018).

I hope the former happens.
 
C

Chumly

Member
Reading the CBO report people are not going to feel the real pain until 2020. Up until then the tax credits based off a percentage of income will still be active. At that point they are going to phase out and the new refundable tax credit is going in place. The expectation is that a bunch of seniors will no longer be able to afford health insurance forcing them to drop out. The health market overall will be better by this by not having the bad risk.

I would argue that obviously that isn't a good thing. As Tom price says this morning though they are free to do whatever they want!!!
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
I think the GOP really flew to close to the sun with their shitty healthcare bill, even if it doesn't pass. Every newspaper headline in the country right now is "24 MILLION MAY LOSE INSURANCE UNDER AHCA"
 
Z

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Angus King just did a good interview on MSNBC about HC bill. He doesnt seem like he would even negotiate, seems strong no. Says we should fix ACA not do this new thing.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
BoogieWoogie said:
I think the GOP really flew to close to the sun with their shitty healthcare bill, even if it doesn't pass. Every newspaper headline in the country right now is "24 MILLION MAY LOSE INSURANCE UNDER AHCA"
Click to expand...

Yep

And now their entire year's plans are derailed

Nice going guys, A+++ governing, 10/10 would elect again
 
B

Blader

Member
sc0la said:
So is trump the new Nixon without the charm or the new Carter without the human decency. I lost track this week.
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He doesn't have any of Nixon's cunning or Carter's heart, he's just a mashup of both men's weaknesses. Which, historically speaking, doesn't bode well for a long presidency!

sc0la said:
? Emails of what?
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Exxon Mobil is under investigation for misleading its investors about climate change for years/decades. It was reported last night that between 2006-2015, while he was CEO, Tillerson had been discussing climate change internally at Exxon with an alternate email account and alias. Exxon was court ordered to hand over any documents/emails pertaining to the company and climate change, but these emails were not given over specifically because they were hidden in an alternate account.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
sc0la said:
? Emails of what?
Click to expand...

Another alias email account — that of “Wayne Tracker”— is poised to cause problems for a high-level official, this time former Exxon CEO and current Secretary of State Rex Tillerson

Tillerson used an alias email account from at least 2008 to 2015 to discuss climate change, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman’s office said in a court filing Monday.

Schneiderman, other state attorneys general, and the Securities and Exchange Commission are currently investigating whether Exxon defrauded the public by engaging in a campaign to discredit climate science, propping up the value of its oil and gas reserves. The Wayne Tracker email account — Tillerson’s middle name is Wayne — was discovered in the course of the investigation, known as the Exxon Knew case.

“This is a significant development in Schneiderman’s investigation into what Exxon knew about climate change, when it knew it, and what the company did to conceal it,” Naomi Ages, Greenpeace’s lead on the climate liability project, said in a statement. “Was Rex Tillerson that worried about climate risks for Exxon? Or was he more worried about the risk of revealing them to his shareholders and to the public? Or was it both?”
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https://thinkprogress.org/sec-of-st...-has-an-email-problem-594114c22f91#.sj19y34l7
 
T

Teggy

Member
Ziltoidia 9 said:
Angus King just did a good interview on MSNBC about HC bill. He doesnt seem like he would even negotiate, seems strong no. Says we should fix ACA not do this new thing.
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Seems like a major stumbling block right now are states that haven't done Medicaid expansion and I don't know how they can fix that.
 
E

Ernest

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Can't it be both?

Trump is every negative about every president rolled into one and multiplied by ten.
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And none of the positive aspects. Say what you will about Nixon and Carter - they're legitimately smart, intelligent men. Trump isn't just not-smart, but as dumb as they come.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Teggy said:
Seems like a major stumbling block right now are states that haven't done Medicaid expansion and I don't know how they can fix that.
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Sweeten the pot.

Edit: the Supreme Court really fucked us on the ACA. If we had dragged the states kicking and screaming into the Medicaid expansion the premium increases in red states would have been tempered non expansion states and this repeal effort would be cast in an even worse light in terms of people loosing coverage.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Diablos said:
Anyone saying this bill is dead is speaking too soon I think. No one can really know what the fuck they're doing.
Click to expand...

It's dead, Jim. Republicans are not a monolithic group/Borg. Too many factions are opposed to this bill for it to pass. Now that's not to say they'll never pass a healthcare bill (although I seriously doubt it), but it sure as hell won't be this bill.

I'm struggling to even make sense of Ryan's behavior here. I guess it's the culmination of having people tell you you're a genius/wonk/thinker/etc for so long you believe it.
 
B

Blader

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
It's dead, Jim. Republicans are not a monolithic group/Borg. Too many factions are opposed to this bill for it to pass. Now that's not to say they'll never pass a healthcare bill (although I seriously doubt it), but it sure as hell won't be this bill.

I'm struggling to even make sense of Ryan's behavior here. I guess it's the culmination of having people tell you you're a genius/wonk/thinker/etc for so long you believe it.
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He does not have a keen sense of judgment. He did, after all, agree to be Mitt Romney's running mate.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
25 million lose insurance.

Premiums go up like 4x.

Medicaid expansions gone.

Lowers Medicare solvency.

Opposed by every health care stakeholder.

Trump lobbying for it, Ryan unapologetic.

Breitbart pulling the knives out for Ryan.

Cotton, Collins, Murkowski, Cassidy, Paul, freedom caucus in opposition

AARP ready for war.

All going swimmingly.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Bonen no Max'd said:
so I was just thinking but I've never heard evangelicals complain about social security even though I've heard them go crazy about stuff like this. And plus, maybe my memory of Revelation is off but wouldn't the Mark of the Beast need to be like from the UN or something to even make some semblance of sense as a conspiracy?
Click to expand...

The globalists are the real international cabal.
 
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