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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher

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K

kess

Member
Cruz has a terrible faux sincerity that is nullified against people percieved as tellimg-it-like-it-is folks like Trump and Bernie.

Even Trump was able to break him over that 9/11 bit, and Trump is a shitty debater.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
lenovox1 said:
Not necessarily bad, but the problem and scare with Ted Cruz vs. Donald Trump is that he would be MASSIVELY more effective in both turning America into a libertarian fascist blend state and more effective legislatively.
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DTC said:
Ted Cruz would be far more effective at getting his agenda done and would probably do far worse things.
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I don't know if this would be true though. The underlying issues of healthercare and budget would still be there between the factions in the gop. Someone much more stable that would be somewhat respectable would president instead of Trump. News media could focus on the issues instead of dumb stuff Trump says each day. I think overall we would be in a better spot with Cruz.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
eBay Huckster said:
i would rather have had literally anyone in the democratic party as president, personally
Click to expand...

It's his time to shine. He has a lock on the eBay Huckster demo;

Jim_Webb_official_110th_Congress_photo.jpg
Click to expand...
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Ted Cruz wouldn't have a clue how to pass legislation either, though I suppose he might be better at it than Trump.

Though it's kind of a pointless hypothetical as Cruz would never have won a general election.
 
D

DTC

Member
Basileus777 said:
Ted Cruz wouldn't have a clue how to pass legislation either, though I suppose he might be better at it than Trump.

Though it's kind of a pointless hypothetical as Cruz would never have won a general election.
Click to expand...

Donald Trump underperformed generic republican in the house ballot.

Wisconsin Michigan and PA have always been pretty close besides when Obama (a midwesterner) was on the ballot. Bush lost Wisconsin by 0.38 and 0.22 IIRC.

Hillary was a poor candidate (who I supported in both 08 and 16 and still support) - Trump didn't expose any flaw that any other Republican wouldnt have.

The american public still leans conservative - Obama only won by 7% in 08 despite being very well liked and a disasterous 8 year term by Bush.



Agree that Ted Cruz wouldnt be a loony with nukes.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
DTC said:
Donald Trump underperformed generic republican in the house ballot.

Wisconsin Michigan and PA have always been pretty close besides when Obama (a midwesterner) was on the ballot. Bush lost Wisconsin by 0.38 and 0.22 IIRC.

Hillary was a poor candidate (who I supported in both 08 and 16 and still support) - Trump didn't expose any flaw that any other Republican wouldnt have.

The american public still leans conservative - Obama only won by 7% in 08 despite being very well liked and a disasterous 8 year term by Bush.
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Trump won by the narrowest of margins and Cruz would not inspire the unprecedented rural turnout that flipped Florida. Cruz would not have connected with rust belt voters either, his brand of movement conservatism has little appeal even against Hillary.

Cruz is like the one Republican candidate Hillary would have beaten. Kasich, Rubio, and Jeb probably would have won too, but not Cruz.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
Add another one to the list. From the NYT...

In a sign of mounting frustration among Republicans in Washington, Representative Pat Tiberi of Ohio, a senior lawmaker with close ties to his party's leaders, is expected to resign and take up an executive post with a business group in his home state, according to three Republicans briefed on his plans.

An abrupt departure by Mr. Tiberi, who is an influential member of the House Ways and Means Committee, would signal a deepening level of discontent among mainstream Republicans in Congress. Despite holding Congress and the White House, Republicans have so far failed to achieve longstanding policy goals like overhauling the tax code and repealing the Affordable Care Act.

Mr. Tiberi, 54, could announce his plan to leave Congress as soon as this week, Republican officials said, though it is unclear when he intends to vacate his seat.
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Mr. Tiberi, however, would be a particularly striking congressional refugee. He was a close ally of John A. Boehner, the former House speaker, and had considered challenging Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio, next year. Mr. Tiberi had more than $6.6 million in his re-election account as of the start of the month.
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B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Basileus777 said:
Trump won by the narrowest of margins and Cruz would not inspire the unprecedented rural turnout that flipped Florida. Cruz would not have connected with rust belt voters either, his brand of movement conservatism has little appeal even against Hillary.

Cruz is like the one Republican candidate Hillary would have beaten. Kasich, Rubio, and Jeb probably would have won too, but not Cruz.
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I have a low opinion of Hillary but she would have beaten Jeb lmao

Lincoln Chafee could have beaten Jeb.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
I know we joke about economic anxiety but today's "The Daily" podcast had a story about a woman who would legitimately be considered economically anxious, and it was a really sad story. Basically a steel worker who had a great job for decades, company fired everyone and forced them to train their Mexican replacements. Trump comes along and says he's gonna stop companies leaving and the plant basically has a glimmer of hope that he'll actually do it.

She voted Obama both times and says she'd rather have him as president now as well.

Anyway, really depressing story. Anybody else listen to it?

Bonen no Max'd said:
I have a low opinion of Hillary but she would have beaten Jeb lmao
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Good lord I'd hate to see the turnout numbers for yet another election where you end up with Clinton or Bush as president
 
B

Basileus777

Member
kirblar said:
Jeb can't lie through his teeth about the populist economics or sell the racism. She'd be fine.
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I don't think you'd need to do that as well as Trump if you're a Republican candidate maintaining the suburbs. Hillary was plenty vulnerable to a traditional candidate as well. It'd be razor thin margins, but that was how it happened in our timeline too.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Really most republicans would not have been able to flip the states Trump did in order to win. The suburban pick ups or what Dems would have lost with someone else are largely irrelevant.

Who else could have flipped Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Really he wasn’t the worst candidate at all. We all had it backwards. He was probably the best, every other standard republican’s ceiling was too low.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
To the ornery "You should say Merry Christmas" people,

You should respond with "All Holidays Matter".

My brother shared a meme with it, and it's such a damn obvious response since it's almost assuredly the same people.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
VendettaRed07 said:
Really most republicans would not have been able to flip the states Trump did in order to win. The suburban pick ups or what Dems would have lost with someone else are largely irrelevant.

Who else could have flipped Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Really he wasn’t the worst candidate at all. We all had it backwards. He was probably the best, every other standard republican’s ceiling was too low.
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That's correct I think. Being a candidate is all about trumpeting yourself and putting down everyone else, which Trump excels at. He was, as candidate, quite remarkably effective. The narrative of "couldn't even beat Trump" doesn't really work.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Back in 2015 you can find posts from me where I said, approximately, that Ted Cruz would have a 100% chance of losing by a little while Trump would have a 99% chance of losing by a huge amount but a 1% chance of winning with attendant terrible consequences.

There was some discussion at the time over which option would actually be preferable for us.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
whyamihere said:
I agree.

In fact, Jeb might have been the only candidate she could've beaten.

Also FYI New Zealand just got a center-left PM. Center-right has controlled the country since 2008.
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this is the first center-left takeover since...Tsai Ing-wen in Taiwan in the middle of last year? I'm probably forgetting one but it's been a lot of conservative wins generally.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Bonen no Max'd said:
this is the first center-left takeover since...Tsai Ing-wen in Taiwan in the middle of last year? I'm probably forgetting one but it's been a lot of conservative wins generally.
Click to expand...

Since Obama won reelection I believe it's been:

Portugal
Italy
Chile
Canada
South Korea
Taiwan
New Zealand

I believe South Korea was the most recent before New Zealand. One of the few other center left wing parties outside of the US that uses blue as their color.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Bear in mind that a) NZ Labour is relatively socially conservative compared to many other Western leftist parties, and b) they're in coalition with NZF, the UKIP of New Zealand. It's good news, but not necessarily a road map you would want to follow yourself.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
So. How long until a journalist or politician tries to tweet about "Niger" and enters the n-word instead?

Democrats could push this situation and turn it into "Trump's Benghazi" for 110% political reasons, but 1) that would accomplish freaking nothing, 2) we'd be hypocrites and 3) I want to think Democrats are above that kind of crap. We got spoiled at the end of Obama's term when military casualties weren't a daily or weekly news event any longer, and thankfully it's still extremely rare under Trump.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Basileus777 said:
Trump won by the narrowest of margins and Cruz would not inspire the unprecedented rural turnout that flipped Florida. Cruz would not have connected with rust belt voters either, his brand of movement conservatism has little appeal even against Hillary.

Cruz is like the one Republican candidate Hillary would have beaten. Kasich, Rubio, and Jeb probably would have won too, but not Cruz.
Click to expand...

I don't really get it. Does Jeb inspire the massive turnout of racists that flipped Florida? Or do you just give him Florida because he was the governor?

I think he doesn't flip Michigan and PA.

It's pretty clear to me that Trump was like a bog standard Republican ultimately (not many NEVER TRUMPERS!!! chose to nevertrump) with racists. He actually probably underperformed most standard Republicans with the non-racist Republican base.

The thing I can't get my head around for 2020 is if we should nominate a minority guy (or gal). Does it demographically just make the coalition too narrow if we don't get strong (like record) turnout from the AA community?
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Y2Kev said:
The thing I can't get my head around for 2020 is if we should nominate a minority guy (or gal). Does it demographically just make the coalition too narrow if we don't get strong (like record) turnout from the AA community?
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Yeah. This is what I've been wondering when it comes to voting in the general primaries. Obviously, I don't want it to just be that, but basically any Democrat would be a massive improvement over Trump.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
In idle moments I've been trying out some Trump verse. Here's a few about his twitter habits in the styles of E Clerihew Bentley, Anthony Hecht, and Ogden Nash:

Donald J Trump
Takes a morning dump
And while on the shitter
Abuses Twitter

--

Higgledy Piggledy
Trump, as a candidate,
Promised he'd be at the
End of a phone.

We didn't know that he
Meant it so literally,
Unpresidentially
Tweeting alone.

--

Donald Trump takes revenge by tweet, he is a vengeful twitterer,
Many people say that vengeance is sweet, but for Donald it just seems to make him bitterer.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Workers of firm involved with the discredited and Fake Dossier take the 5th. Who paid for it, Russia, the FBI or the Dems (or all)?
7:56 AM · Oct 19, 2017

Tut tut, Trumpy boy. Don't start saying things on Twittet that would make Daddy Putin angry.

Accusing him of making a fake document after all he did for you? Bad Trumpy Boy....
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Workers of firm involved with the discredited and Fake Dossier take the 5th. Who paid for it, Russia, the FBI or the Dems (or all)?
7:56 AM · Oct 19, 2017

Tut tut, Trumpy boy. Don't start saying things on Twittet that would make Daddy Putin angry.

Accusing him of making a fake document after all he did for you? Bad Trumpy Boy....
Click to expand...

He has an interesting take on the meaning of “discredited and fake” considering A) Numerous things from the dossier have been confirmed, and B) It was reported a week ago that Mueller was focusing on the dossier. Perhaps this is why he’s trying to discredit it?
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
.@foxandfriends "Russia sent millions to Clinton Foundation"
8:21 AM · Oct 19, 2017

Ohboyohboyohboy
 
G

Greigor The Fellhand

Member
Mueller must've got the donation list to his camp and business


also this Niger thing is a pressure cooker that this admin doesn't knwo how to handel.

looking more and more like Niger us military personel deaths are the result of a high risk raid, (that trump probably authorized)
 
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