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[BlastProcessing]

Maddow apparently went full conspiracy theory on the Niger thing tonight. If there's something there I hope it's exposed, but I really don't want the left to cede the high-ground on not politicizing tragedies like this.

I don't think she went full conspiracy theory. She pointed out that Chad pulled its forces from Niger in directly after they were put on Trump's travel ban and that Niger is a more dangerous place for it. I think it's a pretty reasonable speculation.

With Chad's soldiers gone, the US is going to need to either pull out, increase its troop levels or begin to even more greatly rely on PMCs.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Trump was duped by fake right wing "news" tip/Miller and insisted on an operation go ahead despite the generals telling him otherwise. He got men killed, destroyed relations with the government of Niger and once again has blood on his hands because "gut feeling". Count on it.

Here's a bunch of specific shit I just thought up that ranges from unlikely to damn near impossible. Count on it.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

It's been confirmed that an ISIS offshoot "Islamic State in Sahel" carried out the attack. The confusion is arising because the army used a private contractor for evacuation, but the remains of those four soldiers were supposedly evacuated by the French forces.


So what was Berry Aviation doing when they needed evacuation, but instead had to rely on the French?

That makes some sense but poses more questions. My gut feeling is those soldiers didn’t have to die that day.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The Nazis are not sending their best.

Hey now, I use Bing. Shit pays for my games.

Probably, but facts don't really matter when it comes to feelings. Just look at of all the right-wing political groups that either gained power or are in power. Much of their rise has something to do with immigration and I think a lot of the support has large backing by lower class groups. Even it being true that the native populace isn't really getting displaced or something like that people still fear immigration even if the fear is not grounded in reality. It is like some left-wing movements are afraid to tackle the problem of xenophobia, nationalism, racism, and enthocentrism head on and instead rather maneuver around the topics.

It should just be on the list of things we ram through. There'd be electoral backlash for sure, but the increased diversity would actually be a direct attack on prejudice. Forcibly break up cloisters of ethnically homogenous people.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Hey now, I use Bing.

confirmed nazi, to the gulags with ye

 

[Teggy]

Ah, “wacky Wilson.” Been a while since we got a new nickname.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

confirmed nazi, to the gulags with ye

Only the bourgeoisie can turn down free money.

 

[Slime]

Maddow apparently went full conspiracy theory on the Niger thing tonight. If there's something there I hope it's exposed, but I really don't want the left to cede the high-ground on not politicizing tragedies like this.

If there's one topic Maddow wouldn't jump the shark on, it's the military. If she thinks there's something going on there...hell, someone probably told her something's going on there.

 

[Souldriver]

Maddow is only half a step above TYT. Using theatrics, entertainment and personality to spread opinions and half truths.

She has the advantage of presenting the liberal side of the argument, which by definition makes you more reasonable and honest than the other side in American politics.

Just my opinion, but I can't stand watching her for more than a few minutes. It's so obvious she's trying to 'mould' you into believing what she says, while if you are spitting truth, you don't need such tactics.

 

[Joe]

Americans and Europeans should be 10x more aware of Boko Haram than ISIS. BH targets mainly Christians, they are incredibly brutal, and they are dying to make a name for themselves.

I really hope this won't be our big introduction to them.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Bing is bannable.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Good thing i use ask jeeves

 

[TheLaughingStock]

This is really not true. There is overwhelming evidence that immigrants are always a net benefit to society, regardless of skill level. (There's also the moral argument for open borders.)

(To be clear, open borders does not mean that criminals can just walk in to your country.)

There are large differences in the costs and benefits of migrant groups. Moreover, the net effect is dependent on factors such as age, length of stay and education. At current immigration levels, they're a small net benefit on average. However, the benefits are not uniformly distributed. There are limits and controls in place today because societies can't tolerate unfettered freedom of movement for long. It has to be controlled and restricted in a reasonable manner.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm all for open borders if you can get a decent chunk of the world on board at once, but it's a concept with a pretty huge free rider problem if only 1 or a handful of countries implement it, especially if those countries are more affluent.

Except when the US had more open borders, we had people from other countries leave on their own constantly and not stick around.

Turns out when you make it all or nothing, you ironically invent the so -called "free riders" when you make it harder to justify leaving.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Maddow is only half a step above TYT. Using theatrics, entertainment and personality to spread opinions and half truths.

She likes to give historical context for things.

What half truths has she spread?

 

[Wilsongt]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

 

[CCS]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

Oh fuck off you ignorant cunt (Trump not you)

It has a lot more to do with ideologically driven cuts to policing and public services. I wonder which party would support that...

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

It's too early for this shit. (@Trump, not you, obviously.)

 

[BoogieWoogie]

This is giving me life right now. Richard Spencer's speech didn't go as he planned:

https://twitter.com/madamyez/status/921332035486191617

 

[benicillin]

This is giving me life right now. Richard Spencer's speech didn't go as he planned:

https://twitter.com/madamyez/status/921332035486191617

Oh that is good.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Just my opinion, but I can't stand watching her for more than a few minutes. It's so obvious she's trying to 'mould' you into believing what she says, while if you are spitting truth, you don't need such tactics.

Yeah....

This rings false for many women and POCs.

I mean, there's been a whole Trump scandal based on this not being true.

That "molding" is providing context and narrative.


I only bring this up because to me, there is a huge difference between her and TYT. Especially the Jimmy Dores of the world

 

[Diablos]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

UK CRIME BAD
RADICAL ISLAMIC TERROR BAD
AMERICA... GOOD! MAKE GREAT AGAIN!

Trump is like that troll from Witcher 3. Can’t remember his name.

 

[Hazzuh]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

Spoiler

The report doesn't say that

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yeah....

This rings false for many women and POCs.

I mean, there's been a whole Trump scandal based on this not being true.

That "molding" is providing context and narrative.


I only bring this up because to me, there is a huge difference between her and TYT. Especially the Jimmy Dores of the world

Yeah, Maddow is intellectually honest most of the time. Preaching to the choir? Sure, unfortunately, only because a significant chunk of the country has no use for facts that paint their beloved leader in a bad light, and a roughly equal chunk doesn’t want to talk or think about politics at all so they just arbitrarily equate Maddow to the left’s version of Rush Limbaugh (if they even know who both of those people are).

538 telling us to chill out about Virginia polling. Northam has an average lead of 50-43 - a 1-point lead for Gillespie and a 14-point lead for Northam are both consistent with the expected sampling error.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...e-virginia-polls-folks/?ex_cid=story-facebook

 

[Maledict]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

As someone whose day job deals with both sides of this - fuck off you fucking ignorant racist moron.

 

[nature boy]

Could people like boycott products and services of companies that advertise on Fox & Friends?

Thnx

 

[Ernest]

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
6:31 AM · Oct 20, 2017

Fucker's just itching for some "Islamic terror" here in the US, not getting any, so he has to speciously point to the UK. Fucking pathetic.

 

[Nordicus]

Trump is like that troll from Witcher 3. Can’t remember his name.

You do not sully Witcher trolls like that!

They're good people. Yes, even the ones that eat people. With Trump everything is relative.

 

[shadow_shogun]

 

[Plinko]

If this Niger thing continues to pick up steam (and with McCain demanding answers, I think it will), I wonder if democrats with latch on to it and make this Trump's Benghazi.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If this Niger thing continues to pick up steam (and with McCain demanding answers, I think it will), I wonder if democrats with latch on to it and make this Trump's Benghazi.

The thing with Benghazi is that it was a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff that didn't even happen. This Niger thing seems like an actual misplay by Trump and his military leaders.

 

[Armaros]

The thing with Benghazi is that it was a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff that didn't even happen. This Niger thing seems like an actual misplay by Trump and his military leaders.

There was also the botched Yemen Raid that Trump never had to answer for. And we know Trump directly gave the order for that one.

 

[Ithil]

The thing with Benghazi is that it was a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff that didn't even happen. This Niger thing seems like an actual misplay by Trump and his military leaders.

Yes, it was disingenuous from the start, because Republicans just wanted to drag out a phony scandal to harm Clinton as a future candidate.

 

[dramatis]

Listening to today's NYT The Daily, it's about Rex Tillerson and the decimation of the State Department, it's a bit amusing to hear all this stuff about Tillerson and Trump considering last week.

 

[Plinko]

The thing with Benghazi is that it was a lot of conspiracy theories and stuff that didn't even happen. This Niger thing seems like an actual misplay by Trump and his military leaders.

Right. If it was conspiracies, I don't think the dems would do anything. It sounds like a lot worse, though.

Would be amazing to see the right wing twisting in knots to say how this wasn't as bad.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Right. If it was conspiracies, I don't think the dems would do anything. It sounds like a lot worse, though.

Would be amazing to see the right wing twisting in knots to say how this wasn't as bad.

I knew what you were getting at with your post, I just don't like to legitimize Benghazi as an actual scandal, when this Niger thing could develop into something big, and legitimate.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Maddow is only half a step above TYT. Using theatrics, entertainment and personality to spread opinions and half truths.

She has the advantage of presenting the liberal side of the argument, which by definition makes you more reasonable and honest than the other side in American politics.

Just my opinion, but I can't stand watching her for more than a few minutes. It's so obvious she's trying to 'mould' you into believing what she says, while if you are spitting truth, you don't need such tactics.

If Maddow is only a half step above TYT, then it's a fucking 10,000 mile step. Using narrative to place things in historical context is not "moulding" and it's sure as hell not what TYT trucks in. On one hand, we have someone who supports journalism more than any other person on TV; she's constantly having reporters on, constantly demonstrating the value of facts. On the other hand, we have an organization that still won't take down their videos peddling the Seth Rich conspiracy. TYT lives on the Breitbart part of the block. It's dedicated to emotionally manipulating its audience to generate clicks. It hires people like Mike Tracey. It pushes RT narratives.

And if you think that people who are on the side of truth don't need communication skills and tactics, then you are being naive at best and self-deceptive at worst. That is an incredibly anti-intellectual and regressive opinion that completely ignores history and denigrates Reason.

 

[dramatis]

I forgot to mention that Tillerson was hired because he fit Trump's image of what a SecState should look like

 

[Pyrokai]

The Senate tax cut stuff has me beyond bummed. We are so fucked.

 

[Mark Andrew]

The Senate tax cut stuff has me beyond bummed. We are so fucked.

Is there even a final tax bill yet?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The Senate tax cut stuff has me beyond bummed. We are so fucked.

It's just a bill saying "we have permission to do this, and will pursue it in the future"

The same bill passed for the ACA repeal. Still a long road to go for tax cuts.

 

[Hopfrog]

It's just a bill saying "we have permission to do this, and will pursue it in the future"

The same bill passed for the ACA repeal. Still a long road to go for tax cuts.

Exactly. If you want to be defeatist about this then just look at what happened with health care. There is still a long way to go for them.

 

[Pyrokai]

That makes me feel better. I should just automatically come to this thread whenever I see a political thread on OT because the perspective here is much better

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Taxes are harder to pass through than healthcare was by leaps and bounds. I'm not too worried.

 

[Effect]

She likes to give historical context for things.

What half truths has she spread?

This. I've not once gotten the impression she is lying or spreading half truths. Been listening to her since she was just doing her radio show. What she does do, and perhaps to much of it, is provide context for what she's about to say so you have a better understanding of it. That's a good thing. When she gets something wrong the next show she corrects it if they don't notice it before the show is over. I would never try to put her on the same level or near the TYT jackasses.

 

[Abinash117]

Is there even a final tax bill yet?

No and the budget they passed was just a blueprint doesn't mean anything, by which I am confused by. Is the tax bill based on the proposed budget or the current one? The Republicans wanted to push off the budget deadline for months, but Trump screwed them over, so wouldn't taxes be affected by the new budget in December? It looks like the Republicans are desperate to pass the tax bill soon.

 

[Wilsongt]

The Hill is REALLY try to push the "See! Democrats have Russia problems, too!!!" angle.

Also, lol Fox

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...eneral-defends-trump-condolence-call.amp.html

As if this is the first, or last, time Trump will shit all over Gold Star families of color.

 

[wutwutwut]

There are large differences in the costs and benefits of migrant groups. Moreover, the net effect is dependent on factors such as age, length of stay and education. At current immigration levels, they're a small net benefit on average. However, the benefits are not uniformly distributed. There are limits and controls in place today because societies can't tolerate unfettered freedom of movement for long. It has to be controlled and restricted in a reasonable manner.

No, there are limits and restrictions in place because almost every single person on Earth is nativist.

Immigration is hugely beneficial for immigrants most of all. If your moral system allows treating people from one patch of land as somehow more deserving of benefits than people from another patch of land, then your moral system is broken.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think the Hill is doubling down on the Democrat Russian stuff because they don't want to admit they published a poorly written article by a mediocre author.

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...gh-profile-race-for-2018-election-poll-shows/

Mia Love starts out with a 48-42 lead over Ben McAdams.

Gee I wonder if anyone is going to comment on why such a heavily GOP district is competitive or if pundits are going to ignore the racist, sexist Mormon elephant in the room like usual.

If you look at Matheson’s 2012 victory, he won by running up the score in Salt Lake City. McAdams being the mayor would probably end up with a similar map.