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[whyamihere]

Taken from the Norwegian broadcaster, it's the latest poll they did + possible coalitions:

And explainer from wiki:

(R is Rødt, a party to the left of Socialist Left)

edit: To illustrate the fall of Labour:

Just over two hours to go, and it is very unclear exactly how things will go. Not sure if I'll watch it live, but the public broadcaster are nice enough that I can tune in to their online streaming if I'd want to.

R guy is hot.

EDIT: glad this is at the top of the page.

 

[pigeon]

We already have that. Individual autonomy. You aren't producing anything without cooperation from other people.

a) I think we know what comes next (violence)

b) This is way worse of a spin than we had w/ either of the US/UK liberal seat pickups in congress/parliament over the past year.

If you're allowed to coerce people with starvation you don't need their willing cooperation

 

[Fenderputty]

Other countries have dealt with this better tho! The US has some unique issues (oh hi there racism) keeping this from happening.

The next time we get a DDD setup, we need to go HAM, because we know they'll kick us out in 24 months anyway regardless of what we do. We just need to go HAM without being dumb about it.

And if they kick us out the pendulum swings back. Unless you get major liberal policy passed that distributes wealth more equitably (taxing the fuck out of the rich for healthcare as an example), most of what they'll do can be undone. The entire budget reconciliation processes ensures we will have, at the very least, a Bush style tax cut on the wealthy as an option until republicans just stop getting elected.

Racism is a huge reason we won't get this done legislatively even if the democrats go HAM.

Like, you know me. I'm not socialist in the sense that I think a centrally controlled economy is a garbage one. That doesn't mean I don't see the merits of a market based socialist structure where ownership of the means of production is more equitable.

As technology progresses the labor dynamic will just get worse in a capitalist system too.

Are we? I seem to remember it wasn't a big deal that large powerful capitalists were paying our most recent presidential nominee disgusting amounts of money for doing nothing.
.

I don't think acknowledging that fact that our politicians have to work within a shitty system is actually admitting the system isn't shitty.

 

[Mark Andrew]

Alex Jones claims the (((Deep State))) has been covertly drugging Trump for the past 2 months

Lol.

 

[sphagnum]

Capitalism does a fine job spreading the ownership of the means of production through competition already. Monopolies and cartels are degenerate cases and should be handled accordingly.

Capitalism does indeed do indeed do a fine job of that in the sense that it spreads ownership among the bourgeoisie instead of literal aristocrats. For the masses of the common people, who nominally own this country and are supposed to have democratic power, it doesn't do that at all. Realistically economics and politics are so intertwined that keeping them from democratic control over economics means keeping them from democratic control over government. Not to mention the more direct problems stemming from their lack of control at work which leads to the necessity of unions and - hey guess what, we're back to where we started!

 

[kirblar]

Are we? I seem to remember it wasn't a big deal that large powerful capitalists were paying our most recent presidential nominee disgusting amounts of money for doing nothing.

Also this is ignoring capital's political power that exists outside electoral politics. Offshoring is just as political as funding a campaign.

It wasn't, if you can get people to pay you lots of money for doing nothing, allowing you to use that money to do good things w/? Great!

The fact that you see large amounts of money as "disgusting" says it all.

R guy is hot.

EDIT: glad this is at the top of the page.

You being confused about why people are talking about Joe Kennedy confused me for basically this reason.

Unless you're just not into gingers.

 

[ErichWK]

Alex Jones claims the (((Deep State))) has been covertly drugging Trump for the past 2 months

Lol.

I honestly wanna know if he is making this up out of nowhere or if he think she has high level sources or something.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Money in politics is a clear example of market failure, since it is a positional good and an example of the Red Queen's Race. It's 'disgusting' insofar as that if this failure had not been allowed to occur, some actual good might have been done with it.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Ok time's up here's everyone's predictions of whether Trump will be impeached.

lol no

No.

my 10% prediction

Each week stories and actions by senate against trump will ramp up

leading to formal announcements of charges by muellers team in october

Depends on D House takeover. If so then yes. Convicted? no

If R still control House then no.

Yes. Over/under 10/31.

No.

never

Nope.

Yes impeach, O/U 10/1

Also I think there is a good chance of a medical retirement

No chance. He'll likely resign after a year. Claiming he accomplished everything he wanted and left early because he was so successful 4 years would be pointless, or blame everyone in Washington and say it's irreparable.

missed this



March 2019

Yes

Yes, 9/7/2019.

3/15/18

Not gonna be impeached me thinks.

Not gonna be impeached. Also not gonna be re-elected.

Not gonna be impeached me thinks.

I'm going to err on the side of he's never impeached, because I'm not even sure the Democrats will win the House. I don't think the GOP would ever do that to their incumbent president.

Yes. When McConnell and co do the math and see out of control trump is a net liability. Sadly they aren't worried about the party turning nakedly racist and literally nazi, but do care about losing seats and control.

Yes. A unanimous democratic vote and a few sacrificial GOP martyrs and retirees will vote for impeachment.

My votes on yes. He's a way bigger liability to the party then an asset. Who cares about his hardcore base when hes turning away the independents and even some long time republicans. My bet is once Mueller's got everything ready for his case they're going to try and dump him as quickly as possible.

Yes. He is successfully pissing off all Republicans and destroying their reputation. Guessing by the end of the year/early next year after the debt ceiling, budget, and tax reform all blow up in Trump's/GOP's face. Trump just threw an egg in the GOP's face with the 3 month debt ceiling extension. I could see McConnell and Ryan trying to wait till post-2018, so they don't nuke the Republican party right before midterms. Granted it is a lose-lose for them as Trump is going to tank them in the midterms regardless.

Not impeached by republicans. If Democrats take over congress then they will impeach.

I'm in with a "Yes, there's too much stuff Mueller is obviously finding about criminal activity unrelated or tangentially related to the election and he's pissing off Ryan and McConnell"

I don't think Trump gets impeached. I do think he resigns though. Not necessarily over the obstruction stuff.

It's a no on impeachment from me dawg

No.

I guess I'll put down a guess that impeachment proceedings will begin by April 1 2019, but that he'll resign before it passes the House.

...put me down as Yes on impeachment proceedings.

Our politics have already been turned into a shitty version of a gets-more-hype-than-it-deserves Netflix series, might as well go all the way.

It's the series finale this shitshow deserves.

Home some of you are ready to eat crow.

 

[Aaron Strife]

huh.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...est-9-11?t=1505147507607#update-1505147507000

I wonder how much of a bounce we might see in some of these red state legislatures where we're at pretty much rock bottom.

Like I don't expect to flip a lot of state legislatures outright, but at least bring ourselves up to a more respectable 40-45% of seats rather than hoping we can just break supermajorities.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

 

[wutwutwut]

Capitalism does many things, but access to the means of production is not one I would broadly grant it. The vast majority of people do not have any significant degree of ownership over the product of their labor. Which, fair, they traded that ownership away in exchange for payment but the eternal critique of capitalism is that that dynamic is exploitative and people are not fairly compensated for the value they create (and I say this as someone with some hefty critiques of the labor theory of value)

I didn't say that capitalism spreads the means of production broadly among the populace. I think the government must ensure the fruits of capitalism are broadly spread through redistribution, but that's not the same thing as making the actual process of production democratically controlled.

In a capitalist society, democratically controlled organizations can happily coexist with shareholder-controlled ones. The market does a great job of figuring out which way is better.

 

[kirblar]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

No, generally, that's everyone's problem with it. Fine in a conceptual theory in trying to do better, but in execution a lot of people fucking die, the economy goes to shit, etc. making it completely terrible to actually push for these policies knowing those things are true.

 

[The Technomancer]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

I mean this is part of why a lot of my concerns are specifically with various schools of anarchist or libertarian socialism. How you effectively combine socialism, democracy, and institutional structures is the problem I would like us to solve!

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I don't think acknowledging that fact that our politicians have to work within a shitty system is actually admitting the system isn't shitty.

I was referring to paid speeches as an example about how campaign finance isn't the only form of capital's disproportionate political power.

 

[dramatis]

You being confused about why people are talking about Joe Kennedy confused me for basically this reason.

Unless you're just not into gingers.

Probably needs Kennedy to grow some facial hair

 

[wutwutwut]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

I don't associate morality with economic systems really, but yeah this is what a lot of neoliberals believe.

 

[Poodlestrike]

No, generally, that's everyone's problem with it. Fine in a conceptual theory in trying to do better, but in execution a lot of people fucking die, the economy goes to shit, etc. making it completely terrible to actually push for these policies knowing those things are true.

Like the entire last page of discussion was about the relative goodness of the two systems, though; from where I'm standing, that looks like a solved problem. The question of whether or not one of those two systems is actually viable overrides that, as far as I can see.

I mean this is part of why a lot of my concerns are specifically with various schools of anarchist or libertarian socialism. How you effectively combine socialism, democracy, and institutional structures is the problem I would like us to solve!

Yeah, there's a lot of interesting work to be done there.

 

[Sciz]

I keep wondering why Tennessee isn't more liberal than other southern states....at least on par with NC and VA. It's got some big-ish cities and shit.

It was, once upon a time, and then Obama got elected. The resulting red wave broke the back of the state Democratic party and flipped some existing Dem gerrymanders in the process.

As it currently stands, Memphis is really blue (mostly thanks to some serious white flight over the last couple decades), Nashville is just blue enough to keep voting in Jim Cooper, and the other notable cities aren't big enough to avoid getting overwhelmed by the rural areas of their districts and only have a slight leftward lean anyway.

It's probably not impossible for a Democrat to win a statewide election quite yet, but they've got to win back white people to do it, even in the cities.

 

[berzeli]

R guy is hot.

EDIT: glad this is at the top of the page.

Yes.

(Also his name is Bjørnar, Bjørne means bear in Norwegian)

 

[BlastProcessing]

Alex Jones claims the (((Deep State))) has been covertly drugging Trump for the past 2 months

Lol.

Not sure he wants to keep walking down this path...

 

[AntraxSuicide]

huh.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...est-9-11?t=1505147507607#update-1505147507000

Hattiesburg is a large city here, and it's a college town. Definitely worth fighting over because a broken supermajority would come in handy if we can get the governor's mansion.

 

[Abinash117]

Ok time's up here's everyone's predictions of whether Trump will be impeached.


Home some of you are ready to eat crow.

I thought I said yes before the limit, but I basically already agreed with Stinkles and Kid Heart reasoning.

 

[The Technomancer]

I understand the hesitation about impeachment, but from where I sit Mueller doesn't need to build a strong case specifically about Trump colluding with Russia to alter the 2016 election, he just has to build a credible case based on literally any of the other massive criminal activity the Trumps have clearly extensively been involved in, a significant chunk of which is with Russia

 

[berzeli]

Norway keeps its horrid right wing coalition according to initial prognosis.

 

[whyamihere]

Norway keeps its horrid right wing coalition according to initial prognosis.

Yup. Meh.

 

[berzeli]

Yup. Meh.

The only bright spot is that FRP didn't grow.

 

[Abinash117]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

My problem with it is how you going to transform one economic system to another without destroying many institutions. Also dealing with many entities that will fight back. It just seems you need an extremely powerful federal government in terms of legislatively and judicial wise, especially judicial. It seems like the courts would be the biggest obstacles.

Does anyone know how you can deal with the opposition without a really powerful federal government?

I understand the hesitation about impeachment, but from where I sit Mueller doesn't need to build a strong case specifically about Trump colluding with Russia to alter the 2016 election, he just has to build a credible case based on literally any of the other massive criminal activity the Trumps have clearly extensively been involved in, a significant chunk of which is with Russia

Which he is doing right now, so that is why I think he will get impeached. I don't see how the GOP will keep him around if he has committed serious crimes, especially before the 2020 election. You are asking to have a wave.

 

[whyamihere]

The only bright spot is that FRP didn't grow.

Looks like almost nothing really will shift except for SP.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Alex Jones claims the (((Deep State))) has been covertly drugging Trump for the past 2 months

Lol.

It’s known that most presidents end up getting drugged.

!

 

[Slacker]

Listening to Bill Mather from last week... why the hell am I listening to Bill talk to Ken Bone for 15 minutes?

Edit: Oh hell, SE Cupp on the panel? Hard pass.

 

[BigJonsson]

Listening to Bill Mather from last week... why the hell am I listening to Bill talk to Ken Bone for 15 minutes?

Edit: Oh hell, SE Cupp on the panel? Hard pass.

Ken Bone made me laugh a few times
SE Cupp wasn't good, wouldn't let the other guy talk
Last guest only talked about his book
New rules was meh

Not a good episode at all

 

[whyamihere]

Government right now has 77 seats supported by 19. Left bloc has 72 plus MDG. So like no change.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Everyone's got this wrong. We shouldn't make more people wealthy and reduce starvation, we should make more people starve and less people wealthy. Desperation and adversity are essential parts of the human experience that mould character. We are born in the kilne of pain, but our abundance is making dullards out of perfect beings. Self actualization is the greatest form of attainment. Thus the paradox of wealth: our happiness drives our hollowing. Fear, hate, loss, grief, hunger, pain, cold. Give everyone the opportunity to test their strength. Destroy everything in a deluge of flames. As some among our flock have esconded, let Shiva be our shepherd and bring the sheep home. Eris will pen our novels. May we continue to turn endlessly.

Choose life over stillbirth.

 

[berzeli]

Looks like almost nothing really will shift except for SP.

Basically yes.

Urgh I had to close then window when NRK went to FRP, fucking thugs chanting "four more years", pls no.

I'm going to change my mind about only bright spot though, that they had some weird ass show where Bjørnar Moxnes goes for a swim + sauna and they didn't geo-lock it was the only bright spot. so I'll leave you with a gift:

 

[whyamihere]

Basically yes.

Urgh I had to close then window when NRK went to FRP, fucking thugs chanting "four more years", pls no.

I'm going to change my mind about only bright spot though, that they had some weird ass show where Bjørnar Moxnes goes for a swim + sauna and they didn't geo-lock it was the only bright spot. so I'll leave you with a gift:

redistribute me.

 

[chadskin]

EMAILS

The FBI recently questioned a former White House correspondent for Sputnik, the Russian-government-funded news agency, as part of an investigation into whether it is acting as an undeclared propaganda arm of the Kremlin in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).

As part of the probe, Yahoo News has learned, the bureau has obtained a thumb drive containing thousands of internal Sputnik emails and documents — material that could potentially help prosecutors build a case that the news agency played a role in the Russian government “influence campaign” that was waged during last year’s presidential election and, in the view of U.S. intelligence officials, is still ongoing.

The emails were turned over by Andrew Feinberg, the news agency’s former White House correspondent, who had downloaded the material onto his laptop before he was fired in May. He confirmed to Yahoo News that he was questioned for more than two hours on Sept. 1 by an FBI agent and a Justice Department national security lawyer at the bureau’s Washington field office.

Feinberg said the interview was focused on Sputnik’s “internal structure, editorial processes and funding.”

“They wanted to know where did my orders come from and if I ever got any direction from Moscow,” Feinberg told Yahoo News. “They were interested in examples of how I was steered towards covering certain issues.”

https://news.yahoo.com/sputnik-russian-news-agency-investigation-fbi-090024231.html

 

[Random Human]

EMAILS

https://news.yahoo.com/sputnik-russian-news-agency-investigation-fbi-090024231.html

I hope there's more of those blatant collusion email titles in there like "Re: helping Mr. Trump become President using our illegal data operations" or whatever.

 

[benicillin]

EMAILS

https://news.yahoo.com/sputnik-russian-news-agency-investigation-fbi-090024231.html

He just gave them a thumb drive full of internal documents that he copied before he got fired? I hope he has a decent life insurance policy.

 

[barber]

redistribute me.

You dont want to go there, fucking alcohol is too expensive!!

 

[Ithil]

Taken from the Norwegian broadcaster, it's the latest poll they did + possible coalitions:

And explainer from wiki:

(R is Rødt, a party to the left of Socialist Left)

edit: To illustrate the fall of Labour:

Just over two hours to go, and it is very unclear exactly how things will go. Not sure if I'll watch it live, but the public broadcaster are nice enough that I can tune in to their online streaming if I'd want to.

Liberal conservatism and conservative liberalism, you're spoiled up there.

 

[pigeon]

Everyone's got this wrong. We shouldn't make more people wealthy and reduce starvation, we should make more people starve and less people wealthy. Desperation and adversity are essential parts of the human experience that mould character. We are born in the kilne of pain, but our abundance is making dullards out of perfect beings. Self actualization is the greatest form of attainment. Thus the paradox of wealth: our happiness drives our hollowing. Fear, hate, loss, grief, hunger, pain, cold. Give everyone the opportunity to test their strength. Destroy everything in a deluge of flames. As some among our flock have esconded, let Shiva be our shepherd and bring the sheep home. Eris will pen our novels. May we continue to turn endlessly.

Choose life over stillbirth.

I appreciate the clarity of this troll, this is a fun character and I hope you run with it

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Liberal conservatism and conservative liberalism, you're spoiled up there.

In many European countries there's almost a complete convergence of acceptable political ideas. Politics in such places are meaningless.

I appreciate the clarity of this troll, this is a fun character and I hope you run with it

This is the only thing you've ever appreciated from me, ever

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Liberal conservatism and conservative liberalism, you're spoiled up there.

 

[sc0la]

I appreciate the clarity of this troll, this is a fun character and I hope you run with it

Just follow nihilist Arby's on twitter, if that's still around.

 

[berzeli]

Liberal conservatism and conservative liberalism, you're spoiled up there.

It's a pretty simplified take on the parties, and not exactly accurate. FRP shouldn't really be called liberal in any sense other that they're for market economics. And Høyre is liberal in basically the same sense as the Tories under David Cameron (i.e. socially liberal when it comes to LGBT rights, etc.). To expand slightly on it:
Høyre:

Fremskrittspartiet:

They're not really the same, at all. FRP are fucking awful.

In many European countries there's almost a complete convergence of acceptable political ideas. Politics in such places are meaningless.

All sides are the same.

 

[pigeon]

I always feel a little left out of these discussions because my big problem with socialized economies is more logistical than ethical. If it works it's clearly morally better but uh, I'm really not too sure that it does. I just feel like people, taken as an average, are too hierarchical and generally backstabby for that. The USSR and Red China were certainly not "real" socialism, but I guess you could say that I'm worried that the impulses that led them into becoming what they did are built in to human nature.

So, yeah. Restricting the excesses of capitalism feels like a better play to me than trying to transition to something that might not even work and would cause a whole lotta damage if we're wrong.

If you think people have a fundamental issue with hierarchy, why would you prefer the system which institutionalizes and champions hierarchy over the system which recognizes hierarchy as a dangerous shared delusion and seeks to minimize it?

 

[NeoXChaos]

Senator Romney?

http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...ning-to-run-for-senate-if-orrin-hatch-retires

Sources tell UtahPolicy.com that former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is preparing to run for Senate in 2018 if Sen. Orrin Hatch decides to retire.

Sources close to Romney say the two-time presidential candidate will jump into the 2018 Utah Senate scrum if Hatch opts not to.

 

[Dan]

Senator Romney?

http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...ning-to-run-for-senate-if-orrin-hatch-retires

They've been talking about this for forever. Hatch doesn't want to make a decision, however.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Senator Romney?

http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...ning-to-run-for-senate-if-orrin-hatch-retires

This is his seat if he wants it