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[Dubbedinenglish]

"Not running for President" Al Franken is also on this bill too? Probably because he isn't running.

 

[neurosisxeno]

My biggest fear is Sanders bill being awful and people rally behind a bad implementation. A poorly implemented Public Option or Single Payer will set Socialized Medicine in the United States back 30+ years. As it is, states like mine (VT) promising Single Payer systems and then backing out once they realize what it would take has been pretty damaging.

 

[B-Dubs]

I don't have a problem with Bernie pushing this bill, that's his job.

I am a little surprised that so many Democrats signed on to it when it's so vague. I hope they know what they're doing here.

I assume it's because they know it has no hope of going anywhere. Honestly outside of prospective candidates or conservative Dems looking to prove bonafides there's no reason to co-sponsor this bill.

My biggest fear is Sanders bill being awful and people rally behind a bad implementation. A poorly implemented Public Option or Single Payer will set Socialized Medicine in the United States back 30+ years. As it is, states like mine (VT) promising Single Payer systems and then backing out once they realize what it would take has been pretty damaging.

I doubt Pelosi and Schumer would let a bad public option bill come for a vote. They both know we've only got one chance to make this work.

 

[shinra-bansho]

In 2020, Gillary will be dragged for not cosponsoring. Well played, Harris.

 

[benicillin]

I assume it's because they know it has no hope of going anywhere. Honestly outside of prospective candidates or conservative Dems looking to prove bonafides there's no reason to co-sponsor this bill.

They're going on the record for 2020, thats all this is. I don't expect a 100% workable bill from the minority party (Trump is never going to sign single payer don't be ridiculous with fan fiction).

 

[kirblar]

In 2020, Gillary will be dragged for not cosponsoring. Well played, Harris.

Nah, they both made the same move.

 

[B-Dubs]

They're going on the record for 2020, thats all this is. I don't expect a 100% workable bill from the minority party (Trump is never going to sign single payer don't be ridiculous with fan fiction).

I'm not talking fan fiction. Trump will never sign onto this, it will never come up for a vote. Like I said, outside potential candidates and conservative Dems proving they're all for this, there's no reason to care about this bill. It's a publicity stunt for everyone running against Trump.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Oh she's cosponsoring too then. Like a fox.

 

[benicillin]

I'm not talking fan fiction. Trump will never sign onto this, it will never come up for a vote. Like I said, outside potential candidates and conservative Dems proving they're all for this, there's no reason to care about this bill. It's a publicity stunt for everyone running.

It was more a general comment on people I have seen saying that, not you specifically - sorry!

 

[shinra-bansho]

So. Like. No one cared when Conyers put in his annual M4A bill in like January. Currently sitting in limbo with like the Indian Affairs committee.

 

[B-Dubs]

It was more a general comment on people I have seen saying that, not you specifically - sorry!

The issue is, the numbers are the only thing that matters. Look at what happened in Vermont and Colorado(?). They were on the road to Single Payer until they saw the numbers, at which point the proposals lost all the support they had previously garnered.

Public support for it will be soft at best until people see at least a rough sketch of the numbers, that's the only way for public support to solidify. Show everyone the tax increases won't be so bad and they'll back it and we'll have an easier time fighting that battle in the future.

 

[benicillin]

The issue is, the numbers are the only thing that matters. Look at what happened in Vermont and Colorado(?). They were on the road to Single Payer until they saw the numbers, at which point the proposals lost all the support they had previously garnered.

Public support for it will be soft at best until people see at least a rough sketch of the numbers, that's the only way for public support to solidify. Show everyone the tax increases won't be so bad and they'll back it and we'll have an easier time fighting that battle in the future.

I'm not super familiar with what happened in Colorado, but VT was a bad test case for singlepayer for sure. The politics might've been right, but it's one of the oldest and smallest states in the country, the economy couldn't support the hit in the short term, and Shumlin certainly didn't help any. It was a real bummer.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'm not super familiar with what happened in Colorado, but VT was a bad test case for singlepayer for sure. The politics might've been right, but it's one of the oldest and smallest states in the country, the economy couldn't support the hit in the short term, and Shumlin certainly didn't help any. It was a real bummer.

I think it was Colorado, basically they were on the road to single payer and the people of the state saw the tax increases required and balked.

It's why I'm saying support is soft right now. Everyone likes the idea of not needing to worry about health insurance, but once they see the bill that changes. Without figuring out how to make the numbers work single payer will never get anywhere. This is one case where the details are everything, figure those out and everything else falls into place.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Really. So Bernie's plan is to wipe out all existing insurance companies right now.

Bernie and co shouldn't be solely busting up private insurance schemes because that would be biased and would ignore everyone else who's being rewarded handsomely at your country's expense.

With that said, it's well past time to take away the punch bowl when you're dedicating 18% of GDP to this subject. Point blank your country is getting fleeced by people and firms being rewarded well beyond what they deserve. America is burdened with embarrassing inefficiency and correspondingly poor health outcomes. And given that, there should be a keen sense of urgency to put a stop to this. It's not only that how you're rewarding your health care sector isn't based off merit but more importantly people are dying because of how you've set your system up. Folks are profiting and skimming off the top as the US trails the developed world in well-being. It's morally bankrupt and honestly a sad state of affairs for a country that proclaims they're the greatest in the world at everything under the sun.

 

[pigeon]

Bernie and co shouldn't be solely busting up private insurance schemes because that would be biased and would ignore everyone else who's being rewarded handsomely at your country's expense.

With that said, it's well past time to take away the punch bowl when you're dedicating 18% of GDP to this subject. Point blank your country is getting fleeced by people and firms being rewarded well beyond what they deserve. America is burdened with embarrassing inefficiency and correspondingly poor health outcomes. And given that, there should be a keen sense of urgency to put a stop to this. It's not only that how you're rewarding your health care sector isn't based off merit but more importantly people are dying because of how you've set your system up. Folks are profiting and skimming off the top as the US trails the developed world in well-being. It's morally bankrupt and honestly a sad state of affairs for a country that proclaims they're the greatest in the world at everything under the sun.

Hello mods somebody reasonable has stolen this libertarian's account

 

[Holmes]

My biggest fear is Sanders bill being awful and people rally behind a bad implementation. A poorly implemented Public Option or Single Payer will set Socialized Medicine in the United States back 30+ years. As it is, states like mine (VT) promising Single Payer systems and then backing out once they realize what it would take has been pretty damaging.

I wouldn't worry. This bill isn't going anywhere either way. And when Democrats are in a position to pass bills like this again, it'll go through the amendment process and hopefully (but probably not) emerge as a better bill.

 

[B-Dubs]

Bernie and co shouldn't be solely busting up private insurance schemes because that would be biased and would ignore everyone else who's being rewarded handsomely at your country's expense.

With that said, it's well past time to take away the punch bowl when you're dedicating 18% of GDP to this subject. Point blank your country is getting fleeced by people and firms being rewarded well beyond what they deserve. America is burdened with embarrassing inefficiency and correspondingly poor health outcomes. And given that, there should be a keen sense of urgency to put a stop to this. It's not only that how you're rewarding your health care sector isn't based off merit but more importantly people are dying because of how you've set your system up. Folks are profiting and skimming off the top as the US trails the developed world in well-being. It's morally bankrupt and honestly a sad state of affairs for a country that proclaims they're the greatest in the world at everything under the sun.

This is like that scene from Old School where Will Ferrell beats James Carville in a debate.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

@dc_dsa: The Juggalo March is this Saturday! Metro DC DSA is proud to stand with our clown comrades against state repression https://t.co/jp1sbekKiL https://t.co/eZlR3LmWaK

2017, when politics got weird...

 

[Pixieking]

The WaPo's daily email blast, WorldView, has something interesting today.

If Trump wants to unravel Obama’s legacy, he could start with Burma

President Trump has made no secret of his desire to dismantle the achievements of President Barack Obama, be they domestic reforms on health care, an executive order governing the status of undocumented youth, a landmark international agreement on climate change or the deal inked between world powers and Iran over its nuclear program.

Many of Trump's efforts to unravel Obama's legacy, though, have stalled. More often than not, they have also proved widely unpopular among the public, according to a slate of opinion polls. But there's one hot spot where Trump could probably walk back the effects of Obama's foreign policy with little condemnation: Burma.

But don't get your hopes up

So what pressure can be exerted on Burma's military? Obama gave away valuable leverage last year in easing sanctions on Burma; the threat of restoring them could be a significant option. But it's hard to imagine Trump, distracted by a host of other concerns and crises, taking a particularly active role on the matter. “Part of the problem is that there is not the kind of strong interest in the White House as there used to be,” Derek Mitchell, who was U.S. ambassador to Burma from 2012 to 2016, said to my colleagues last week.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

wait. the laughing stock isnt american?

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

wait. the laughing stock isnt american?

lol this was also my main takeaway

The lore deepens

 

[Ac30]

wait. the laughing stock isnt american?

He forgot to sign into his alt, duh

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I think we should fund single payer healthcare with aborted fetus tissue

is that an option?

 

[Pixieking]

John Oliver Extends HBO Contract Through 2020

John Oliver will be on HBO through the next presidential election.

HBO announced on Tuesday that it had signed its late-night star to a new three-year deal, keeping Mr. Oliver’s weekly Sunday night show “Last Week Tonight” on the air through at least 2020.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

John Oliver Extends HBO Contract Through 2020

I want Jon Stewart to go rub muddy shoes into Colbert/Olivers couch.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

In 2020, Gillary will be dragged for not cosponsoring. Well played, Harris.

She also bent the knee, actually.

 

[PBY]

"We're gonna build a wall. Mexico will pay for it."

You spend so much time arguing against these positions, you're actually bolstering the right wing view here. Seriously, you're in every healthcare thread explaining why it just CAN'T work.

Why can't we make it work?

 

[Poodlestrike]

You spend so much time arguing against these positions, you're actually bolstering the right wing view here. Seriously, you're in every healthcare thread explaining why it just CAN'T work.

Why can't we make it work?

Because a massive tax raise on every working American is a hugely unpopular policy proposal and there's no particular reason to do it when we could go the public option route to ease the transition enormously?

 

[tbm24]

Anyone running in 2020 needs to endorse it. Pelosi isn't and is doing the smart thing as minority leader.

I'd have much more respect for a potential 2020 candidate if they proposed a public option fix for the ACA instead.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think maybe Bernie should run.

 

[GrapeApes]

John Oliver Extends HBO Contract Through 2020

Getting tired of him. His dives are informative but the comedy is getting tiresome.

 

[Stinkles]

wait. the laughing stock isnt american?

He isn't even the same character he was six months ago. Just figured out how to stay alive.

 

[Plinko]

You spend so much time arguing against these positions, you're actually bolstering the right wing view here. Seriously, you're in every healthcare thread explaining why it just CAN'T work.

Why can't we make it work?

The idea that raising concerns is "bolstering the right wing view" is hilarious to me. If it is a valid concern, who cares what side is bringing it up? This isn't like, "Well, a democrat proposed it so it is terrible." This is a legitimate concern that the sticker shock Americans will get from the tax increase will hamstring any efforts for healthcare reform for decades.

We NEED change in this area. I want this to work badly. Jumping into the deep end of single-payer is a horrible way to go about it. It's like fixing a broken arm by amputating. Ease in with the public option. Go from there.

 

[tbm24]

The idea that raising concerns is "bolstering the right wing view" is hilarious to me. If it is a valid concern, who cares what side is bringing it up? This isn't like, "Well, a democrat proposed it so it is terrible." This is a legitimate concern that the sticker shock Americans will get from the tax increase will hamstring any efforts for healthcare reform for decades.

We NEED change in this area. I want this to work badly. Jumping into the deep end of single-payer is a horrible way to go about it. It's like fixing a broken arm by amputating. Ease in with the public option. Go from there.

The problem the primary has had on people and the way the general election went, it's all about rhetoric now. I'm dreading 2018 and 2020 as I'm getting the sense it's going to be a shouting match with whose idea sounds the best and loudest.

 

[Wilsongt]

Listening to Katy Tur's interview on NPR just continues to reinforce the truth that Trump is a disgusting pig.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Criticize Hillary's policies "Yea, she's so out of touch, go get 'em!!!"
Criticize Bernie's policies "Stop it guys, you're just helping the right wing"

 

[Wilsongt]

Criticize Hillary's policies "Yea, she's so out of touch, go get 'em!!!"
Criticize Bernie's policies "Stop it guys, you're just helping the right wing"

Do NOT critize Birdnie Godners!

 

[Plinko]

Criticize Hillary's policies "Yea, she's so out of touch, go get 'em!!!"
Criticize Bernie's policies "Stop it guys, you're just helping the right wing"

Yes. A thousand times, yes.

 

[Rebel Leader]

With Irma and Harvey devastation, Tax Cuts and Tax Reform is needed more than ever before. Go Congress, go!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/907946177022369792

 

[Plinko]

With Irma and Harvey devastation, Tax Cuts and Tax Reform is needed more than ever before. Go Congress, go!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/907946177022369792

That is quite a stretch.

 

[Mark Andrew]

With Irma and Harvey devastation, Tax Cuts and Tax Reform is needed more than ever before. Go Congress, go!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/907946177022369792

I fail to see how these are related in any way.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/13/teflon-trump-democrats-messaging-242607

Democrats have attacked the president every which way, but polling and focus groups show none of it's working.

The call for free college tuition fosters both resentment at ivory tower elitism and regret from people who have degrees but are now buried under debt. Many voters see ”free" as a lie — either they'll end up paying for tuition some other way, or worse, they'll be paying the tuition of someone else who'll be getting a degree for free.

Voters are right here. Promising free college tuition will only win you voters who already vote for you. And then they will also realize it's not really free.

Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research and Gerstein Bocian Agne Strategies conducted online polling of 1,000 Democrats and 1,000 swing voters across 52 swing districts for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Their advice to candidates afterward: Drop the talk of free college. Instead, the firms urged Democrats to emphasize making college more affordable and reducing debt, as well as job skills training, according to an internal DCCC memo.

Medicare-for-all tests better, but it, too, generates suspicion. The challenge is that most voters in focus groups believe it's a pipe dream — they ask who will pay for it and suspect it will lead to a government takeover of health care — and therefore wonder whether the politicians talking to them about it are being less than forthright, too. Sen. Bernie Sanders is scheduled to release a single-payer bill on Wednesday, with Sens. Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Tammy Baldwin among those joining him.

That is true considering even Sanders has not specified how he will pay for his Medicare-for-all plan.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 is as unpopular as it was when the Obama White House tried to make it Democrats' rallying cry in the 2014 midterms. Participants in battleground-state focus groups said they see that rate as relatively high and the issue in general as being mostly about redistributing money to the poor.

The DCCC memo urges candidates instead to talk about a ”living wage," or to rail against outsourcing jobs.

15$ platform could end up being the biggest reason Dems lose to Trump in 2020.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/13/teflon-trump-democrats-messaging-242607

Democrats have attacked the president every which way, but polling and focus groups show none of it's working.

Voters are right here. Promising free college tuition will only win you voters who already vote for you. And then they will also realize it's not really free.

That is true considering even Sanders has not specified how he will pay for his Medicare-for-all plan.

15$ platform could end up being the biggest reason Dems lose to Trump in 2020.

Yea that's nice and all, but if Democrats just went more liberal they'd win all the elections because there's a secret bloc of voters who only vote for extremely far left policies and never answer any polls or participate in any focus groups and totally exist, we promise, they exist, guys, come on, you know they do.

 

[Wilsongt]

So the new right-wing, and female woman hater's club leftist, news is that Hillary's lawyers are being investigated for deleting HER EMAILZZZZ and being threatened with disbarment?

Yet no reputable source is running with this narrative.

 

[Teggy]

We need aid for hurricane stricken regions so we should cut taxes so the government has less money to give. Go congress go. Wait, what?

 

[woodland]

Is this new or old? Saw it pop up but didn't see it anywhere on GAF.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/democrats-mueller-flynn-middle-east-trip-disclosure/index.html?adkey=bn

 

[Mark Andrew]

Is this new or old? Saw it pop up but didn't see it anywhere on GAF.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/democrats-mueller-flynn-middle-east-trip-disclosure/index.html?adkey=bn

New but it barely registers at this point. Just another log on the fire.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/13/teflon-trump-democrats-messaging-242607

Democrats have attacked the president every which way, but polling and focus groups show none of it's working.

Voters are right here. Promising free college tuition will only win you voters who already vote for you. And then they will also realize it's not really free.

That is true considering even Sanders has not specified how he will pay for his Medicare-for-all plan.

15$ platform could end up being the biggest reason Dems lose to Trump in 2020.

The main issue I had with the "Free college for everyone!!!" idea was that most voters right now are struggling with mountains of college debt. "Free college" doesn't help them at all. It's an honorable goal, but doesn't make much sense from a political standpoint. Yes, those with children may benefit in the future, but how does it help the majority of people right now? Focusing on college debt amnesty may have been a better idea.

 

[Pixieking]

The main issue I had with the "Free college for everyone!!!" idea was that most voters right now are struggling with mountains of college debt. "Free college" doesn't help them at all.

Is there any value in picking-up and running with some of Hillary's ideas? From her campaign website:

Debt won't hold you back

Borrowers will be able to refinance loans at current rates, providing debt relief to an estimated 25 million people. They'll never have to pay back more than 10 percent of their income, and all remaining college debt will be forgiven after 20 years.

Delinquent borrowers and those in default will get help to protect their credit and get back on their feet.

To reduce the burden for future borrowers, Hillary will significantly cut interest rates so the government never profits from college student loans.

Hillary's plan will crack down on predatory schools, lenders, and bill collectors.

A new payroll deduction portal for employers and employees will simplify the repayment process—and Hillary will explore more options to encourage employers to help pay down student debt.

Aspiring entrepreneurs will be able to defer their loans with no payments or interest for up to three years. Social entrepreneurs and those starting new enterprises in distressed communities will be eligible for up to $17,500 in loan forgiveness.

Hillary will take immediate executive action to offer a three-month moratorium on student loan payments to all federal loan borrowers. That will give every borrower a chance to consolidate their loans, sign up for income-based repayment plans, and take advantage of opportunities to reduce their monthly interest payments and fees.

Fully paid for: This plan will be fully paid for by limiting certain tax expenditures for high-income taxpayers.

 

[benicillin]

Nothing is working!

Except every indication is that Trumps approval rating has been in steady decline and his support in every state has softened. And he barely won last time against the other most unpopular candidate in history.

So really, everything seems to be working.