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[BotoxAgent]

I'm convinced that McCain is leaps dumber than Dubya in every single way. Sometimes I think he doesn't even know what state he's campaigning anymore. The man is seriously stupid.

 

[Keylime]

So I'm just here waiting for the Palin report...

Might not get released. It has to be voted on by a group of 10 repubs and 4 dems.

I'm imagining they'll vote it down, even though this same group unanimously agreed to go forth with the investigation in the first place.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

Not joking.

Health Care should always remain privatized. There needs to be oversight to the industry, but fuck the government telling me where to go. I TELL THEM where they should go--- not the other way around. yes I agree with it.

His Iraq strategy is that we should win. I agree. The surge has worked and we should've had 200k troops in there from the get go. I'm not pinning that on anyone but "US" because we failed to identify that problem with less haste. We are all apart of the Iraq war whether you are for it or against it.... that doesn't change. We need to pull our troops out in the next 12-24 months for the impending World War 3 will have on our hands thanks to the world economy and Americans in general spending/consuming beyond their means.

Palin is fine. She's a hockey mom turned governor that would probably grab Putin by the balls and twist if he looked her the wrong way. I have no issues with her leading as President nor did I Hilliary if she somehow magically won.

The major differences between Barack and John are simple--- You have one (Barack) who is a Socialist wanting the Government to take care of the American people by spending more money (Brilliant... really Brilliant) and ultimately will lead to the demise of our social standing in the world due to the dollar becoming so shit weak against anything due to the spending.

John-- A "Maverick" at heart is coming across to me as a tired man who knows he can't sway the opinions of people that he is old, thinks differently than Bush and actually has some good policies on getting some of the current government in place the F out of Washington by ordering spending freezes and re-evaluating their purposes. John however is not perfect as he is tied to Oil and no matter how you cut it, there will always... always be special interest groups on both sides.

If you believe for a second that either of them--- Barack or John are telling you the truth, then you've already been mislead. For a while I just went with the flow and agreed with everything one party said or what the other party said, but when you start to think and ask questions that go beyond the bullshit debates and issued press releases, you see that this country is heading for a bigger cluster-fuck than you can imagine.

VictimOfGrief
Forever Dumb <---------
(Today, 01:22 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[Fatalah]

Might not get released. It has to be voted on by a group of 10 repubs and 4 dems.

I'm imagining they'll vote it down, even though this same group unanimously agreed to go forth with the investigation in the first place.

Wait. Why did no one mention this on PoliGaf last night? We're all waiting here for nothing?!

 

[The Librarian]

What's so different that democrats do from Republicans that they take in more revenue than they spend?

 

[Joe]

uhm if the dow is already down 550 points, 3-4pm could get beyond ugly.

 

[Hitokage]

What's so different that democrats do from Republicans that they take in more revenue than they spend?

Tax and Spend vs. Borrow and Spend

 

[Tamanon]

Man . . . that was an amazingly huge gaffe. It really showed how clueless McCain is on these matters.

The good news is that finally McCain and Lieberman can consummate their relationship now!

 

[ColdDeckEd]

uhm if the dow is already down 550 points, 3-4pm could get beyond ugly.

Look at it this way, everything is 50% off now!

 

[lexdysia]

Obama's ability to lead by example is so unabashedly awesome.

Yes, he's a policy wonk. Some people may be offended by such a title, but Obama embraces it. And (some) of the media are picking up on this beautiful event in our history.

The purpose of a filter is to clean things up. Sometimes the media does this the right way, but other times the wrong way. Balance for its own sake, without looking at the content of the messages, is an example of the incorrect approach.

Yesterday morning I heard Chris Matthews say on Morning Joe that McCain is appealing to "that fourth quintile," and that the Arizona senator already has the fifth in his favor. I wanted to say: Chris, there are five quintiles to an electoral pie. 2/5ths is still only 40%, and that is only if McCain woos all of that quintile (whatever that cockamamey term may represent).

Such math would give Obama 3/5ths of the popular vote, which is certainly enough to win the presidency.

I just viewed Betty White's appearance on Craig Ferguson's show via this link.

It succinctly reflects my feelings on this issue.

Mmm, pie.

Obama '08

 

[Barrett2]

I'm convinced that McCain is leaps dumber than Dubya in every single way. Sometimes I think he doesn't even know what state he's campaigning anymore. The man is seriously stupid.

The more I watch McCain campaign, the more it seems like his best days are behind him. The way he constantly refers to old and outdated historical examples or analogies, the way he forgets questioners names in town hall debates... I get the feeling he is the epitome' of the long-time Washington insider. He has been there so long that it is all routine for him, and he quit trying to learn new things about twenty years ago. At the other end of the spectrum you have Palin, who is so unknowledgeable about things that she is equally problematic.

 

[Keylime]

Wait. Why did no one mention this on PoliGaf last night? We're all waiting here for nothing?!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/release_of_troopergate_report.php

 

[CharlieDigital]

Tax and Spend vs. Borrow and Spend

"Tax and Spend" are somehow dirty words. I don't quite understand.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

No offense, but its plain from your answers you haven't studied the issues very much.

None taken... I'm just a grunt.

Nobody is arguing that health care shouldn't be privatized. That's not the issue. The issue is that the current HMO system is WILDLY anti-competitive. It is not efficient. In a nutshell, McCain's health care proposal would de-regulate the insurance industry as it pertains to health coverage, and he would tax your benefits. This is an empirically terrible idea for countless reasons, and would only result in your premiums going up, not down. I suggest you learn about them.

I suggest we do neither. I don't really think McCain's plan would fly (if elected) but my problem is Obama and him pulling the money out of his ass.... it's just not going to happen. While I agree the shitfest HMO system sucks, it needs to be dealt with in a clean slate manner, not destroy and then pick up the pieces.

Regarding Iraq, there is nothing to "win." What does that even mean? We have already accomplished our mission. Think about it this way, Foreign Policy Magazine interviewed 100 foreign policy experts two years ago. 50 were conservative, 50 were liberal. 90 of them..... 90 of them... said we should end the Iraq War immediately. I could explain to you how the Iraq War is not even sound conservative military philosophy, but really, its all out there if you want to read about it.

Our "winning" in Iraq is making sure the government and Iraqi troops suppress the terrorists once we leave. No offense to you, but if you don't get that, then I doubt we'll see eye to eye on anything.

Your comments regarding Palin are nonsensical. She has no substantive national experience and does not understand the issues. If she were President she would basically have somebody else tell her what to do, so the country would in-effect be run by unelected people with no accountability. It is a joke and travesty against conservative principles to nominate someone like Palin as VP. It is 100% antithetical to everything that conservative political philosophy stands for.

And that would be any different than now how? I mean really. Biden is going to be telling Obama what to do on Foreign Policy. He said himself that Joe helps in that area. Come on man.

Lastly, you accuse me of being naive. Look.... I have been studying foreign policy and law for the last 10 years in college. The reason the conservative movement is dead in America is because conservative intellectual theory has been replaced by mindless populism. I asked you to explain your positions, you clearly haven't taken the time to actually study these issues. Every time I read a post like this I am reminded of the days when my favorite conservative foreign policy professor would start swearing and cussing at the conservative students in the class, because they refused to formulate real arguments or do the reading.

I would say we're on another wave of a conservative movement. I've tried to play the game of being rational... hell every last one of the conservatives has however the liberals just don't want to hear it. If I came back here and said line for line why I agree or disagree with McCain or Obama, it wouldn't change anyone's mind on this board (nor really should it matter really...) but that's fine... I can live with people calling me stupid or dumb.... but that's what I believe and that's why I voice my opinion on this board. Me being in the minority for having some "interesting" views or even saying I represent a independent conservative even for me is overstating my position.

I want a Government that I can trust again. Having studied the nations history for my college term project, I found that fundamentally there was one thing that no one has today that is running in politics..... that one thing is a Credibility. We're in a day and age of where black and white are just melded together as a grey blob all day and we have people accepting..... just like with this bullshit $700 Billion bailout package the 26 pieces of pork added to it---- people have accepted that they can be bought.

So while I still vote for McCain against Obama (and btw, my wife is voting for Obama so you can imagine some of the talks we have in our house....) my vote is going towards the belief that John--- maybe..... just maybe might be able to bring some of the Credibility back to Washington where as Barack is going to continue the tired and true was of Government spending.


I'll go one by one on your responses for a response. See above.

 

[Tamanon]

Obama's ability to lead by example is so unabashedly awesome.

Yes, he's a policy wonk. Some people may be offended by such a title, but Obama embraces it. And (some) of the media are picking up on this beautiful event in our history.

The purpose of a filter is to clean things up. Sometimes the media does this the right way, but other times the wrong way. Balance for its own sake, without looking at the content of the messages, is an example of the incorrect approach.

Yesterday morning I heard Chris Matthews say on Morning Joe that McCain is appealing to "that fourth quintile," and that the Arizona senator already has the fifth in his favor. I wanted to say: Chris, there are five quintiles to an electoral pie. 2/5ths is still only 40%, and that is only if McCain woos all of that quintile (whatever that cockamamey term may represent).

Such math would give Obama 3/5ths of the popular vote, which is certainly enough to win the presidency.

I just viewed Betty White's appearance on Craig Ferguson's show via this link.

It succinctly reflects my feelings on this issue.

Obama '08

I see what you did there.

 

[The Librarian]

Tax and Spend vs. Borrow and Spend

Borrow from where or from whom?

 

[ToxicAdam]

I crack up everytime I see that photo of Bill Clinton. I'm just waiting for the lips to move and say something funny (Conan O'Brien skits).

I miss those skits.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Borrow from where or from whom?

China.

 

[Tamanon]

Borrow from where or from whom?

China, Saudi Arabia, India, the usuals.

 

[Barrett2]

What's so different that democrats do from Republicans that they take in more revenue than they spend?

The delirium of supply side economics, and defense spending. Republicans became convinced several decades ago that they could force the economy to grow by showering money on rich people and by spending grotesque cash on defense programs. They end up with lopsided results, and the theory has long since been shown to be completely false.... but for some reason the GOP hasn't come up with a new idea in about 30 years, so in the absence of new ideas they trot out the same supply side bullshit year after year after year...

 

[numble]

Our "winning" in Iraq is making sure the government and Iraqi troops suppress the terrorists once we leave. No offense to you, but if you don't get that, then I doubt we'll see eye to eye on anything.

Do we win if we leave according to the Bush/Maliki agreed timeline for withdrawal?

 

[Fragamemnon]

I crack up everytime I see that photo of Bill Clinton. I'm just waiting for the lips to move and say something funny (Conan O'Brien skits).

I miss those skits.

Damn right-I remember Norm McDonald's Bob Dole back in 1996. Freakin' incredible.

 

[Particle Physicist]

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/101008/ele_342247649.shtml

this is starting to get reeeeally scary.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I crack up everytime I see that photo of Bill Clinton. I'm just waiting for the lips to move and say something funny (Conan O'Brien skits).

I miss those skits.

You saw the SNL Bill Clinton skit recently right? I thought that was the best Bill Clinton skit in years.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/36865/saturday-night-live-update-bill-clinton

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

The delirium of supply side economics, and defense spending. Republicans became convinced several decades ago that they could force the economy to grow by showering money on rich people and by spending grotesque cash on defense programs. They end up with lopsided results, and the theory has long since been shown to be completely false.... but for some reason the GOP hasn't come up with a new idea in about 30 years, so in the absence of new ideas they trot out the same supply side bullshit year after year after year...

Don't forget tax cuts pay for themselves!

 

[ToxicAdam]

The delirium of supply side economics, and defense spending. Republicans became convinced several decades ago that they could force the economy to grow by showering money on rich people and by spending grotesque cash on defense programs. They end up with lopsided results, and the theory has long since been shown to be completely false.... but for some reason the GOP hasn't come up with a new idea in about 30 years, so in the absence of new ideas they trot out the same supply side bullshit year after year after year...

1994 was 30 years ago?

 

[Barrett2]

I'll go one by one on your responses for a response. See above.

Hold that thought, I have a football game starting in twenty minutes. I will bookmark your response and get back to you in a few hours when I get back online. Until then, its time to tackle some dudes to the ground!

 

[LiquidMamba]

I just came back from a Biden rally here in Springfield, MO. Biden gave a great speech. He had some great one-liners about Mccain. Nov. 4 can't come soon enough.

 

[Hitokage]

1994 was 30 years ago?

94 was more than Reagan nostalgia?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Oh, I'm sure you've actually researched this matter to speak authoritatively on it, right?

Since was giving an opinion on someone's ability to do intelligent Foreign Policy for the United States against the grain?

 

[1-D_FTW]

I'm convinced that McCain is leaps dumber than Dubya in every single way. Sometimes I think he doesn't even know what state he's campaigning anymore. The man is seriously stupid.

I was seriously depressed when I came to that realization a number of months ago. Much stupider and meaner. As much as I hate Bush, I'd much prefer a third Bush term over McCain.

Tax and Spend vs. Borrow and Spend

A lot of that has to do with the economy, too. Clinton's numbers aren't absurdly high cause he raised taxes, those numbers are huge cause the economy was flush and people were paying more cause they were making more.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

GRAND RAPIDS -- He endorsed John McCain in the presidential primary, but now former Republican Gov. William Milliken is expressing doubts about his party's nominee.

"He is not the McCain I endorsed," said Milliken, reached at his Traverse City home Thursday. "He keeps saying, 'Who is Barack Obama?' I would ask the question, 'Who is John McCain?' because his campaign has become rather disappointing to me.

"I'm disappointed in the tenor and the personal attacks on the part of the McCain campaign, when he ought to be talking about the issues."

Milliken, a lifelong Republican, is among some past leaders from the party's moderate wing voicing reservations and, in some cases, opposition to McCain's candidacy.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

And with this post you officially remove yourself from the category of actual useful discourse and become a joke character to be mocked and ridiculed.

Oh come now Stoney, you were on my ignore list for a while, but I like hearing the other side of the fence. I'm just providing you guys with another view, that's all.

 

[Hitokage]

Since was giving an opinion on someone's ability to do intelligent Foreign Policy for the United States against the grain?

Obviously something must have led you to believe that Obama knows nothing about foreign policy, and one would hope that would include his writings on the matter.

 

[Trurl]

3rd debate moderator Bob Schieffer:

"It's going to be very, very interesting. The whole election may turn on that last debate," Schieffer said.

After watching the first two debates between the presidential and vice presidential candidates, Schieffer said that he's going to try to make sure that the candidates answer his questions. In the vp debate with PBS' Gwen Ifill, neither candidate hewed precisely to the topic at hand, and GOP vp candidate Sarah Palin said flat out that she wasn't going to answer some questions.

"If they do (fail to answer the questions), I'm going to call them on it," Schieffer said. Not answering questions "is not what a debate is about," he said.

Awesome. I hope that Schieffer really does lay down the law.

 

[Stinkles]

this si starting to get reeeeally scary.

I couldn't agree more:

Outside the cavernous arena, fairgoers munched on funnel cake and pork butt on a stick.

 

[Keylime]

Since was giving an opinion on someone's ability to do intelligent Foreign Policy for the United States against the grain?

You have absolutely nothing to base your opinion on. Barack has shown nothing but complete competence when speaking about foreign policy matters.

Let's ignore the fact that he sat on Biden's foreign policy committee since joining the senate.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

 

[pxleyes]

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

now that is an awesome statement.

 

[Hitokage]

Well, something that gives me comfort is that Clinton was reviled by that same segment as an actual murderer, and he was able to grow old and kooky. Then you had Bush who received hate although not as intensely. Hell, the last president to actually get shot was Reagan and that was by a nutcase who thought it'd get Jodie Foster to fall in love with him(wtf?).

 

[ironichaos]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

Meet Sarah Palin’s radical right-wing pals
Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin’s political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. “Her door was open,” says Chryson — and still is

 

[ColdDeckEd]

You have absolutely nothing to base your opinion on. Barack has shown nothing but complete competence when speaking about foreign policy matters.

Let's ignore the fact that he sat on Biden's foreign policy committee since joining the senate.

Seriously, when he can give ONE EXAMPLE of Obama not knowing foreign policy, then maybe people won't find his opinions so abrasive...

 

[syllogism]

Norm Coleman pulling down all negative ads

From a Norm Coleman, incumbent candidate for U.S. Senate in Minnesota, press release:

“As of today I am suspending all negative campaign ads and am calling on those who support me to do the same,” Coleman said. “I’m doing this for two reasons. First of all, this is a terrible time for so many people with the financial crisis – with real concerns and fear about people’s jobs – about their life savings – and their children’s future and education -- when we are all bombarded with negative messages of real consequence. At times like this, politics should not add to negativity – it should lift people up with hope and a confident vision for the future. And second, I decided that I was not all that interested in returning to Washington for six years based on the judgment of voters that I was not as bad as the other two guys. I want folks to vote for me, not against the other guys.

“I have directed my campaign this morning to begin the process of immediately pulling any negative ad that I am personally responsible for approving -- I am also issuing a press release today calling on those who chose to weigh in on this race to honor my call for only positive ads. The fact is, there may be ads in the pipeline- fundraising letters -- direct mail -- YouTube or Web videos or other campaign messages that will filter out into the public over the next several days. I raise this because I want to avoid being caught up on a technicality while the good faith effort is being made to pull these ads down.

“At a time when we need unity, people want hope and that’s what I have offered and acted upon my entire life in public service. As many people know, my theme when I was running for election as Mayor of Saint Paul was that Saint Paul’s best days are yet to come. My mantra was hope plus confidence yields investment. And, I was right. Today, people need hope and a more positive campaign is a start.”

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1528771.aspx

 

[ToxicAdam]

94 was more than Reagan nostalgia?

Or a response to 40 years of corruption and inaction....


depends on your viewpoint, I guess.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Oh come now Stoney, you were on my ignore list for a while, but I like hearing the other side of the fence. I'm just providing you guys with another view, that's all.

Personally I try to defend the conservatives on this board as much as I can because GAF in general is a needlessly unhospitable environment towards dissenting opinions. I like Toxic Adam and Siamese Dreamer before he was banned and APF and some others. But you gotta come with some game in your posts and not just repeat back talking points imo.

 

[Tamanon]

Norm Coleman pulling down all negative ads



http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1528771.aspx

:lol Yeah right, he just wants to make Franken look bad if he does a negative ad about his suits.

 

[The Librarian]

Who is Hitokage?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Seriously, when he can give ONE EXAMPLE of Obama not knowing foreign policy, then maybe people won't find his opinions so abrasive...

He pronounces Pakistan funny.

Spoiler

I know he actually pronounces it right...at least some Paki-GAFfers have said so.

Who is Hitokage?

Do we really know who he is?

 

[Hitokage]

Who is Hitokage?

Sounds like a dirty terrorist to me!

 

[Smiles and Cries]

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

Since Goose died...

he lost that loving feeling...


WHERE OH WHERE IZ MAH PALIN REPORT?