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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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Joe Biden should be running with the "Who is John McCain?" jujitsu move. Unlike the Obama claim that the Fundie Witch of the North and McCain where they say "He's not one of us!", I think a lot of Americans on both side of the aisle realize that the John McCain they knew years ago has ceased to exist.
 
Hitokage said:
Obviously something must have led you to believe that Obama knows nothing about foreign policy, and one would hope that would include his writings on the matter.

Well I for one just think that blacks just don't know shit about foreign policy. I mean look at Africa, really it's their failures in that area that caused slavery.
 
syllogism said:
Norm Coleman pulling down all negative ads

Haha, he's fubar'd. I am looking forward to the Bill O'Reilly / Senator Al Franken interview.

Edit: Saw that Gordon Smith gave a ringing endorsement to Palin last night:

I've met Sarah Palin once. She's a lovely person. She's a great Governor of California. She is a strong executive. No doubt she has a learning curve. So does Barack Obama. He has about the same experience in Government as Sarah Palin."

oops on the California bit :lol , but it's pretty clear that he's decided he has a better chance with the GOP base rather than stake some sort of unity claim. He's doomed anyway.
 
Stoney Mason said:
Personally I try to defend the conservatives on this board as much as I can because GAF in general is a needlessly unhospitable environment towards dissenting opinions. I like Toxic Adam and Siamese Dreamer before he was banned and APF and some others. But you gotta come with some game in your posts and not just repeat back talking points imo.
Agreed. I will be taking some measures to improve the quality.
 

Keylime

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VictimOfGrief said:
Agreed. I will be taking some measures to improve the quality.
First order of business is to stop talking about Barack's "bad policies" when you clearly don't know anything about them.
 
RubxQub said:
Might not get released. It has to be voted on by a group of 10 repubs and 4 dems.

I'm imagining they'll vote it down, even though this same group unanimously agreed to go forth with the investigation in the first place.


Even if it gets voted down, if it has anything truly worthwhile in it I guarantee it will get leaked before the election. It is the only possible outcome in the daytime drama that is Alaskan politics.
 

Tamanon

Banned
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Davis_McCain_blew_up_bailout.html#comments

On that Acorn call, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis also credited McCain with "blowing ... up" the first bailout package when he suspended his campaign to come to Washington, something McCain's campaign had heatedly denied at the time.

Davis expressed outrage that, "in the middle of the greatest disaster in our financial system that we’d had in our lifetime, that the Democrats in the United States Senate would actually link payments to ACORN in the bailout package that they promoted -- prior to Sen. McCain coming to town and actually blowing that package up. So we can actually say that in addition to saving taxpayers millions of dollars, and we’re very happy that no more taxpayer dollars were added to the pile of money going to ACORN."

After the initial bailout package failed, McCain's aides blamed Obama:

"This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country," Holtz-Eakin said

Huh.....that's certainly a different message than it was when the bailout initially broke down.

:lol at claiming to save taxpayers dollars by blowing up the bailout when $150 billion was tacked onto it.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
..blah. he's an idiot..
You know....I kind of wish we had more informed, level-headed Republicans here. Every now and then one pokes in and articulates dissenting opinions from the left PoliGAF crowd without resorting to ignorance, distortion or talking points. It's invigorating. People like VictimOfGrief just help me stereotype all McCain supporters as ignorant morons, which is something I try to resist.

It's getting harder lately.
 
Hitokage said:
Obviously something must have led you to believe that Obama knows nothing about foreign policy, and one would hope that would include his writings on the matter.
Actually--- I was interested in the comments Hilliary made regarding his foreign policy back on the campaign trail.

Of noteworthy tidbit:
"Voters will judge whether living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges the next President will face," Clinton, the former First Lady who has spent seven years on the Senate Armed Services Committee, told supporters Nov. 20 in Shenandoah, Iowa. "I think we need a President with more experience than that." - Hilliary Clinton

Now while that is indeed some mudslinging amongst them, it does give a very valid point. Someone like Clinton who has done the work with foreign leaders and has done the time where as he has.

Same would go for John McCain. He's been around the block and met with leaders, generals etc.

Another interesting read as well regarding Obama's talking points on Foreign Policy : here

I do find it interesting that the speeches layout a grand view of the "change" for foreign policy but then the roar comes to a dull meow once the real policies start to get enacted.
 
RubxQub said:
First order of business is to stop talking about Barack's "bad policies" when you clearly don't know anything about them.
Actually, the policies that I've talked about are from the usual suspects of news feeds, debates and likewise. I'm just at the merit of digging deeper for some of the criticisms you guys have of me.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
GhaleonEB said:
You know....I kind of wish we had more informed, level-headed Republicans here. Every now and then one pokes in and articulates dissenting opinions from the left PoliGAF crowd without resorting to ignorance, distortion or talking points. It's invigorating. People like VictimOfGrief just help me stereotype all McCain supporters as ignorant morons, which is something I try to resist.

It's getting harder lately.
macodin's a fine fellow. Gaborn too, although he's not really a republican and I've also misdirected my frustration with another certain poster at him on occasion. (Sorry for that.)
 
GhaleonEB said:
You know....I kind of wish we had more informed, level-headed Republicans here. Every now and then one pokes in and articulates dissenting opinions from the left PoliGAF crowd without resorting to ignorance, distortion or talking points. It's invigorating. People like VictimOfGrief just help me stereotype all McCain supporters as ignorant morons, which is something I try to resist.

It's getting harder lately.
I believe in you, Ghal, don't let hate get to you.

Hitokage said:
Sounds like a dirty terrorist to me!
:lol
 
GhaleonEB said:
You know....I kind of wish we had more informed, level-headed Republicans here. Every now and then one pokes in and articulates dissenting opinions from the left PoliGAF crowd without resorting to ignorance, distortion or talking points. It's invigorating. People like VictimOfGrief just help me stereotype all McCain supporters as ignorant morons, which is something I try to resist.

It's getting harder lately.

What we really need are more moderates, but the heat of an election season isn't really a good time to identify yourself as a moderate as you, at some point, do identify yourself with a party's candidate when you make your pick.

I have no problems with the merciless beatdown of Republicans on the board, giving credibility to bad ideas just for the sake of fairness or diversity is a shitty way to go about arguing things.
 

Tamanon

Banned
VictimOfGrief said:
I guess at what price though since experience is or isn't out of the picture still?

I'd certainly say that McCain believes that experience is out of the picture, judging by his Veep pick.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
Tamanon said:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Davis_McCain_blew_up_bailout.html#comments



Huh.....that's certainly a different message than it was when the bailout initially broke down.

:lol at claiming to save taxpayers dollars by blowing up the bailout when $150 billion was tacked onto it.

Wait, what? Didn't McCain vote yes the first time?

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/mccain-blames-bailout-vote-on-democrats-2008-09-29.html

He certainly was blaming Pelosi's political speech for it failing to pass and how its failure to pass was a crime against humanity that the Democrats committed.
 

Ravidrath

Member
VictimOfGrief said:
Actually--- I was interested in the comments Hilliary made regarding his foreign policy back on the campaign trail.

Do you have any opinions of your own?

People are asking for specific things and things that you think, and you keep responding with things that aren't either.
 
GhaleonEB said:
You know....I kind of wish we had more informed, level-headed Republicans here. Every now and then one pokes in and articulates dissenting opinions from the left PoliGAF crowd without resorting to ignorance, distortion or talking points. It's invigorating. People like VictimOfGrief just help me stereotype all McCain supporters as ignorant morons, which is something I try to resist.

It's getting harder lately.

It's very difficult to encourage intelligent political discourse for a variety of reasons I won't get into. If I was conservative I doubt I would post in the thread myself. I've seen forums handle the situation a little more elegantly with official separate Obama threads and Mccain threads which helps still foster divergent talk because each "camp" feels like they have a home but reduces a lot of the flamethrowing. GAF sort of likes to have one big clusterfuck thread for these things though ;)
 
Fatalah said:
With this week's debate, I think McCain came across as a crazy old man.

Yup. My parents, both uneducated Italian immigrants who are racist, and who have expressed disappointment with me supporting Obama, watched that debate separately from me (I was away that night) and the next day told me that McCain is grumpy, crazy and looked like he didn't belong on the same stage as Obama.

VERY telling.
 

Tamanon

Banned
It's just impossible to really have sustained discourse during election years, because both sides start abandoning logical arguments in favor of canned ones. Mainly because a lot of them have been hashed over many times.
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
Duane Cunningham said:
I don't know. Here in KCMO, it's really starting to feel like we'll flip. I guess it's up to the rural counties, though, as always.

I was telling another Missourian gaffer (there sure are a lot of us!) that it's a toss up based on the yard signs and bumper stickers I see on my commute home.
 

camineet

Banned
t1wide.wallstreet3.ap.jpg
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I need sleep but I am waiting for the Troppergate Report?

I need sleep, you betcha!
I don't think it will be released.

Of course, a cover-up like that doesn't play so well either. That is the only decision those GOPers are going to consider, IMHO . . . whether it will hurt McCain/Palin more if it is released or kept secret.
 

Fatalah

Member
Frank the Great said:
Yup. My parents, both uneducated Italian immigrants who are racist, and who have expressed disappointment with me supporting Obama, watched that debate separately from me (I was away that night) and the next day told me that McCain is grumpy, crazy and looked like he didn't belong on the same stage as Obama.

VERY telling.

dale.jpg


Their rallies sound like they're run by Dale Gribble.
 

cjdunn

Member
Christopher Buckley endorses Obama. :lol

...
I am—drum roll, please, cue trumpets—making this announcement in the cyberpages of The Daily Beast (what joy to be writing for a publication so named!) rather than in the pages of National Review, where I write the back-page column. For a reason: My colleague, the superb and very dishy Kathleen Parker, recently wrote in National Review Online a column stating what John Cleese as Basil Fawlty would call “the bleeding obvious”: namely, that Sarah Palin is an embarrassment, and a dangerous one at that. She’s not exactly alone. New York Times columnist David Brooks, who began his career at NR, just called Governor Palin “a cancer on the Republican Party.”

As for Kathleen, she has to date received 12,000 (quite literally) foam-at-the-mouth hate-emails. One correspondent, if that’s quite the right word, suggested that Kathleen’s mother should have aborted her and tossed the fetus into a Dumpster. There’s Socratic dialogue for you. Dear Pup once said to me sighfully after a right-winger who fancied himself a WFB protégé had said something transcendently and provocatively cretinous, “You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks.” Well, the dear man did his best. At any rate, I don’t have the kidney at the moment for 12,000 emails saying how good it is he’s no longer alive to see his Judas of a son endorse for the presidency a covert Muslim who pals around with the Weather Underground. So, you’re reading it here first.
...

Edit: Beaten
 

Keylime

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Fragamemnon said:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc315/fragamemnon/original-1.jpg[IMG]

loving that friday blood orgy, if they pull that off right I would be tempted to vote McCain just to satisfy the old gods[/QUOTE]
Totally didn't read this the right way.

I was about to compliment their schedule just based on their locations alone. "At least it looks like they're targeting the right states in this schedule."

...then I looked a little closer... :lol
 
typhonsentra said:
CNN says part of the report will be released after a meeting going on right now.... we aren't getting the whole thing?
WTF?!?!? Now that is total bullshit! They'll release what they like and keep the rest.

Someone has to leak the report if they do that.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
83% of Fox News viewers will be voting for McCain anyway. :lol

It's a new Fox/Opinion Research poll:

Barack Obama leads John McCain by 46 percent to 39 percent, according to a FOX News national registered voter poll released Friday. Two weeks ago Obama led by 45 percent to 39 percent (Sept. 22-23).

Look at some of the questions:

41. Which presidential candidate do you think is more likely to be hiding the
truth about his background and past associations -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
(ROTATE)
Obama McCain (Both) (Neither) (Don’t know)
8-9 Oct 08 41% 26 7 16 11
Democrats 13% 45 6 21 15
Republicans 77% 8 3 8 5
Independents 37% 20 14 18 11
42. As you may know, Barack Obama has distanced himself from his former pastor
Jeremiah Wright because of controversial and anti-American comments Wright made.
Obama attended Rev. Wright's church for about 20 years. Obama says he did not
hear Wright make anti-American comments during the time he went to church there.
Do you believe Obama attended Rev. Wright's church for 20 years and didn't hear
him make anti-American comments during that time?
Yes No (Don’t know)
8-9 Oct 08 28% 54 18
Democrats 40% 36 24
Republicans 15% 77 9
Independents 26% 55 19
43. There has been some discussion of Barack Obama's relationship with the
former radical activist William Ayers. Because Ayers is linked to plots to bomb
the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol in the 1970s, and because Ayres recently said
he wished he had done more, some people say Obama's association with Ayers calls
into question his judgment. Does Obama's connection with Ayers make you less
likely to vote for him for president or does it not really make a difference to
your vote?
Less likely No difference (More likely - vol.) (Don't know)
8-9 Oct 08 32% 61 2 5
Democrats 8% 83 2 7
Republicans 62% 33 2 3
Independents 29% 64 3 4
44. As


I did like this parrt though:

ROTATE NEXT TWO QUESTIONS
38. In general, do you think Barack Obama is running:
SCALE: 1. A positive campaign, focused on the issues 2. A negative campaign,
focused on attacks 3. (Mixed) 4. (Don’t know)
Positive Negative
campaign campaign (Mixed) (DK)
8-9 Oct 08 56% 21 17 7
Democrats 80% 9 9 3
Republicans 31% 38 22 9
Independents 50% 19 22 9
39. In general, do you think John McCain is running:
SCALE: 1. A positive campaign, focused on the issues 2. A negative campaign,
focused on attacks 3. (Mixed) 4. (Don’t know)
Positive Negative
campaign campaign (Mixed) (DK)
8-9 Oct 08 27% 51 15 6
Democrats 12% 74 9 5
Republicans 51% 24 18 7

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/101008_foxpoll.pdf
 
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