PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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VictimOfGrief said:
I'm voting for McCain because he's less of a socialist than Obama is. Makes perfect sense to me.
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because the alternative to euro-style socialism - unregulated, shitburger capitalism - has served the country so well!
 
GhaleonEB said:
Obama adds a national health care plan as an alternative to existing coverage. It is not mandated for everyone (kids require coverage from someone), and it does not replace any existing coverage. All existing plans continue to exist. If you have a plan you like, you keep it. I probably won't be changing mine.

He adds one way to get coverage into the market. Not reduce them. It's a HUGE difference between Hillary and Obama's plans. And McCain's plan would 100% guarantee the quality of coverage would drop through the floor. So you know, there's that.
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VictimOfGrief
Forever Dumb
(Today, 12:35 PM)
Reply | Quote
 
speculawyer said:
This is ridiculous. How are people supposed to make rational decisions if they are constantly fed false information?

Olbermann & Maddow are certainly very biased and report things that support their view . . . but they don't just make shit up like that.
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Rush Limbaugh's show is largely an act. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
Look--- Obama is doing great in the polls because people genuinely think he's going to "change" how politics are done.

That won't happen nor has he showed that in how he's done his campaign.
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Honestly . . . don't you think this indicates that our success with foreign policy would change:
http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

Even Israel is overwhelmingly for Obama in that!
 
Fragamemnon said:
because the alternative to euro-style socialism - unregulated, shitburger capitalism - has served the country so well!
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So you're comparing McCain as a Republican reformer to the Bush the Republican Socialist? Awesome.
 
there is nothing socialist about buying up bad mortgages...? right? are u fucking kidding me, McCain is proposing we buy all the bad mortgages from lenders, at face value.

Enjoy your privatized healthcare, when your employer is sick of getting taxed on it and drop you, all you will have is a $5000 tax credit. I'm sure the free market will work it self out so much better with just your purchasing power rather then your companies collective purchasing power.

John McCain on healthcare
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/mccain-on-banking-and-health/
Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.
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you are about to get fucked idiot
 
VictimOfGrief said:
So you're comparing McCain as a Republican reformer to the Bush the Republican Socialist? Awesome.
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To be fair, McCain just proposed an incredibly socialist program:P It'll just be reformed socialism.
 
pxleyes said:
Fox Polls:

Favorable on Obama: 60% yes, 34% no
Favorable on McCain: 53% yes, 40% no
Indpendent split votes 32% each

All I could catch on the air.
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Vote Will Be More:

For My Candidate
Obama Supporters: 77%
McCain Supporters: 65%

Against other candidate
Obama Supporters: 17%
McCain Supporters: 28%
 
GhaleonEB said:
Obama adds a national health care plan as an alternative to existing coverage. It is not mandated for everyone (kids require coverage from someone), and it does not replace any existing coverage. All existing plans continue to exist. If you have a plan you like, you keep it. I probably won't be changing mine.

He adds one way to get coverage into the market. Not reduce them. It's a HUGE difference between Hillary and Obama's plans. And McCain's plan would 100% guarantee the quality of coverage would drop through the floor. So you know, there's that.

I'm still not sure if you're just being disingenuous for fun, or if you're one of those ignorant guys we see drunkenly ranting on youtube videos. :p
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So where is that money coming from?
 
Cloudy said:
Scorcho: Citi's old rate was 2.65 or so. You'd think banks would be raising rates now...
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That's not a good sign at all - from my untrained eye it says they're hurting for immediate capital (which also explains why their 6-month CD is at a WTF 4%) that they were hoping to get from the Wachovia deal.
 
Fox News Poll
Obama - 46
McCain - 39


Obama is +1 since their poll last week, McCain unchanged.

32% are less likely to vote Obama cause of Ayers. But honestly, how much of that 32% was with Obama to begin with? None I'd imagine.
 
Tamanon said:
Also Drudge is apparently running with Obama being a big spender during an election and a bad economy, because we all know you should save your political funds at this time.:P
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Regular good folk are struggling and this Barack Hussein Obama is out there spending money like some kind of bling bling rapper!

And Farrakhan says he's the messiah!


Be afraid white people and jews. Be very afraid...
 
VictimOfGrief said:
So where is that money coming from?
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Closing tax loopholes. Cutting spending. Raising taxes on the wealthy.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
Not joking.

Health Care should always remain privatized. There needs to be oversight to the industry, but fuck the government telling me where to go. I TELL THEM where they should go--- not the other way around. yes I agree with it.

His Iraq strategy is that we should win. I agree. The surge has worked and we should've had 200k troops in there from the get go. I'm not pinning that on anyone but "US" because we failed to identify that problem with less haste. We are all apart of the Iraq war whether you are for it or against it.... that doesn't change. We need to pull our troops out in the next 12-24 months for the impending World War 3 will have on our hands thanks to the world economy and Americans in general spending/consuming beyond their means.

Palin is fine. She's a hockey mom turned senator that would probably grab Putin by the balls and twist if he looked her the wrong way. I have no issues with her leading as President nor did I Hilliary if she somehow magically won.

The major differences between Barack and John are simple--- You have one (Barack) who is a Socialist wanting the Government to take care of the American people by spending more money (Brilliant... really Brilliant) and ultimately will lead to the demise of our social standing in the world due to the dollar becoming so shit weak against anything due to the spending.

John-- A "Maverick" at heart is coming across to me as a tired man who knows he can't sway the opinions of people that he is old, thinks differently than Bush and actually has some good policies on getting some of the current government in place the F out of Washington by ordering spending freezes and re-evaluating their purposes. John however is not perfect as he is tied to Oil and no matter how you cut it, there will always... always be special interest groups on both sides.

If you believe for a second that either of them--- Barack or John are telling you the truth, then you've already been mislead. For a while I just went with the flow and agreed with everything one party said or what the other party said, but when you start to think and ask questions that go beyond the bullshit debates and issued press releases, you see that this country is heading for a bigger cluster-fuck than you can imagine.
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No offense, but its plain from your answers you haven't studied the issues very much.

Nobody is arguing that health care shouldn't be privatized. That's not the issue. The issue is that the current HMO system is WILDLY anti-competitive. It is not efficient. In a nutshell, McCain's health care proposal would de-regulate the insurance industry as it pertains to health coverage, and he would tax your benefits. This is an empirically terrible idea for countless reasons, and would only result in your premiums going up, not down. I suggest you learn about them.

Regarding Iraq, there is nothing to "win." What does that even mean? We have already accomplished our mission. Think about it this way, Foreign Policy Magazine interviewed 100 foreign policy experts two years ago. 50 were conservative, 50 were liberal. 90 of them..... 90 of them... said we should end the Iraq War immediately. I could explain to you how the Iraq War is not even sound conservative military philosophy, but really, its all out there if you want to read about it.

Your comments regarding Palin are nonsensical. She has no substantive national experience and does not understand the issues. If she were President she would basically have somebody else tell her what to do, so the country would in-effect be run by unelected people with no accountability. It is a joke and travesty against conservative principles to nominate someone like Palin as VP. It is 100% antithetical to everything that conservative political philosophy stands for.

Lastly, you accuse me of being naive. Look.... I have been studying foreign policy and law for the last 10 years in college. The reason the conservative movement is dead in America is because conservative intellectual theory has been replaced by mindless populism. I asked you to explain your positions, you clearly haven't taken the time to actually study these issues. Every time I read a post like this I am reminded of the days when my favorite conservative foreign policy professor would start swearing and cussing at the conservative students in the class, because they refused to formulate real arguments or do the reading. The real enemy of the Republican party is not liberalism, it is the brain-dead generation of Republicans that have been raised in a culture that celebrates political ignorance.
 
Cheebs said:
Fox News Poll
Obama - 46
McCain - 39


Obama is +1 since their poll last week, McCain unchanged.

32% are less likely to vote Obama cause of Ayers. But honestly, how much of that 32% was with Obama to begin with? None I'd imagine.
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Obama winning on Fox News just has to paint a smile on your face.
 
Cheebs said:
Fox News Poll
Obama - 46
McCain - 39


Obama is +1 since their poll last week, McCain unchanged.

32% are less likely to vote Obama cause of Ayers. But honestly, how much of that 32% was with Obama to begin with? None I'd imagine.
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Man, McCain in the thirties. That is rough.
 
Nabs said:
Vote Will Be More:

For My Candidate
Obama Supporters: 77%
McCain Supporters: 65%

Against other candidate
Obama Supporters: 17%
McCain Supporters: 28%
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Wow, I think that is the most telling poll so far. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but Republicans always told us that is why we would lose in 04 (voting against Bush instead of for Kerry) and I honestly believe they were right.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
:lol

Good luck with that. That ain't gonna happen. :lol
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I seriously want to rant about how much of a fucking moron you're being right now.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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Where do you get this idea that he knows jack about foreign policy? Neither his debate performances, proposals, or time in the senate indicate this. I just don't understand.

I'm fine with people feeling the way they do about things, but you need to ask yourself why you feel the way you feel. If you can't answer that question, you probably are missing the point.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
So where is that money coming from?
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Where money must come from regardless of which administration comes in - taxes.

Oh wait, is this an invasive form of 'government in our lives' that you rail against?
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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"We'll be greeted as liberators and it will be a catwalk" Mccain

Just amazing indeed.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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Heh. What has he ever done or said that would lead to this accusation? Foreign policy is one of his strong points actually.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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Obama isn't the one who needs Joe Liebermann to explain to him what Al-Qaeda is.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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Oh, I'm sure you've actually researched this matter to speak authoritatively on it, right?
 
VictimOfGrief said:
:lol

Good luck with that. That ain't gonna happen. :lol
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fed-rev-spend-2008-boc-C2-Government-Spending-Grew-Faster.gif
 
Tamanon said:
To be fair, McCain just proposed an incredibly socialist program:P It'll just be reformed socialism.
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Make no mistake-McCain's mortgage plan is corporate welfare and not really socialism since we all wind up eating the bill, not just the wealthy (who are actually the most likely to have their mortgages bailed out).

Good luck with that. That ain't gonna happen.
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Who's going to stop him? The Democrats with the 50-seat advantage over the GOP? The Dems with the 59-60 seat holding the Senate?

the rich are gonna get what they so badly deserve, and it's going to be fuck awesome.
 
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm sorry but Obama knows jack for shit for Foreign policy. I'm sure if he has a shit eating grin and a good suit he'll be fine though right?

Just amazing.
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Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran . . . now there is great foreign policy. And Mccain's "Next stop Baghdad" (said only shortly after invading Afghanistan)

But yeah, picking the guy that virtually ever country on the planet does not like is great idea . . . I think that shows how much you know about foreign policy.
http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

What can one say other than the fact that you live up to your tag.
 
We have one candidate who wants to ensure that the rescue plan characterizes tax payers as INVESTORS, and another candidate who wants to buy up mortgages at their present bottom rates and renegotiate the mortgage to be lower than that...

One of those sounds a bit more socialist than the other.
 
Cheebs said:
Fox News Poll
Obama - 46
McCain - 39

Obama is +1 since their poll last week, McCain unchanged.

32% are less likely to vote Obama cause of Ayers. But honestly, how much of that 32% was with Obama to begin with? None I'd imagine.
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Seven points is right in the middle of Obama's average lead right now, and sounds about right. And yeah the Ayres question needs context. What's the party ID split of that 32%? Probably overwhelmingly Republican.

Looking at Pollster's moving trend lines, it appears that Obama has hit his ceiling for now, while McCain has not yet found his floor; his national average is the lowest to date.

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php

From the tools menu change the sensitivity to high. Obama flat lines the past several days, McCain is nosediving.

polls.jpg
 
lawblob said:
amazing stuff
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Just awesome, man.

...But we should probably leave VictimOfGrief alone. He's clearly having a difficult time rationalizing the way he's labeled himself with the way reality has labeled him. Give him time and just ignore him - pushing him into the corner and making him defensive may cause his programming to complete devour any remaining reason left.
 
ColdDeckEd said:
Don't forget about the Al Quieda shia/sunni mix up.
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My favorite is McCain's professed love of Teddy Roosevelt and his belief in 'speaking softly and carrying a big stick', with his saber-rattling towards Russia, Iran and North Korea.
 
speculawyer said:
Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran . . . now there is great foreign policy. And Mccain's "Next stop Baghdad" (said only shortly after invading Afghanistan)

But yeah, picking the guy that virtually ever country on the planet does not like is great idea . . . I think that shows how much you know about foreign policy.
http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

What can one say other than the fact that you live up to your tag.
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Don't forget that General Petraeus pretty much indirectly agrees with Obama's Iraq/Afghanistan policies. :lol
 
GhaleonEB said:
Seven points is right in the middle of Obama's average lead right now, and sounds about right. And yeah the Ayres question needs context. What's the party ID split of that 32%? Probably overwhelmingly Republican.

Looking at Pollster's moving trend lines, it appears that Obama has hit his ceiling for now, while McCain has not yet found his floor; his national average is the lowest to date.

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php

From the tools menu change the sensitivity to high. Obama flat lines the past several days, McCain is nosediving.
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Eh, I wouldn't even care about the Ayers question, for a question that they say 32% of voters are less likely to vote for Obama, he still went up a point.:lol
 
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