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[XxenobladerxX]

so the dow traded within a 1,000 point range today. down 100-ish at close. wow, what a day

Thats good right?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

I'll try to be gentle. Look, fellas, this is how we ran mAcodin out! : (

-He's been a US Senator for 4 years, and an Illinois Senator for 8 previous to that, so 12 years total.

-Incorrect. Both Obama and Biden support the right to bear arms. Obama applauded the Supreme Court's decision to overrule the District of Columbia's decision to ban guns outright.

-Reading your response to the Climate Change issue (Global Warming is a misnomer), you are correct in thinking that it's part of a global trend. Humans are intensifying the effects, though, and we have played a major part in that, along with other, related issues, such as wreaking habitats, depleting water sources, ect., which affect us alongside wildlife.

-Obama has admitted that the surge worked on a military level, which is all fine and good. The goal of the surge, though, was to give the Iraqi government time to pull itself together. We gave them the time, and they have yet to pull themselves together to form an effective government. In short, we achieved a side effect, but not the main goal. Obama has stated this position, so, factually, you are wrong.

-I suppose I can't argue with you there, if your point is entitlement programs and an ideological opposition to them. Only thing I can think of is this excellent quote: "We should give them a helping hand up, not a helping handout."

-And we have to agree to disagree here, as well. To attend a church or be friends with someone doesn't mean agreeing with them on everything, and maintaining that friendship even though you strongly disagree.

Short anecdote: My family has gone to a variety of churches over the years, and maintained friends and contacts in almost all of them. One of them is the Mormon Church. The people in the Church tend to be virulently homophobic. While my family strongly disagrees with that, we can recognize that they've done a lot of good community work, and stay friends with them while challenging them on their homophobia.

I hope this is the kind of discussion you were looking for.

*golf clap*

Very well spoken sir. Appreciated.

 

[Verano]

NOBODY GIVES A FUCK IF YOUR RIGHT WING!!!!!!!
The only thing that matters is the truth.

The truth has a well known liberal bias.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

You call it a discussion, but the only thing I see is a bunch of gaffers educating an ignorant man.

Nice. So I'm just an ignorant man living out in Oregon. That is deserving of a new tag I'd say.

 

[The Lamonster]

So Palin's doing a bus tour of WV.


...wtf lol

 

[The Librarian]

Thats good right?

No. What he means is that the DOW has fluctuated up AND down about 1,000 points today.

 

[Fjolle]

Nice. So I'm just an ignorant man living out in Oregon. That is deserving of a new tag I'd say.

Nah, your old one fits fine...

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

BLAH BLAH BLAH SURGE WORKED BLAH BLAH BLAH ---- But,

Yeah--- Anyone who knows anything about semantics in grammar and the English language can tell you that you can agree with someone up to a point "BUT" when you use "BUT" you're basically saying they're wrong while interjecting your opinion of them being wrong.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Nah, your old one fits fine...

It's boring and lacks bite.

 

[scorcho]

Nice. So I'm just an ignorant man living out in Oregon. That is deserving of a new tag I'd say.

To be fair, what you've typed thus far has been conjecture masquerading as truth.

 

[kkaabboomm]

Thats good right?

down 128 as trades finalize.

it was down 660 in the first 5 minutes, rallied, dropped more, was up 300 at one point, then lost all the gains and dropped again.

while it's "good" that it didnt close down 700, it is horrible for it to be so volatile. like, beyond bad. its never traded within a 1000 point range before. thats an 8.5% range (for today's market).

 

[Tamanon]

So Palin's doing a bus tour of WV.


...wtf lol

That's really odd, I guess that one poll with the 8-point Obama lead really scared them.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

*golf clap*

Very well spoken sir. Appreciated.

And? Is it going to change your mind? Or is this your pissant weak shit way of retreating from debating on points you have no idea about?

I maintain that we're wasting breath on the likes of you, and that most of us are simply here to stroke our own egos using you as a punching bag. As am I.

 

[Miroku]

Has he publically stated in any way shape or form at the debates in front of MILLIONS of watching people that the surge has worked? Simple answer. No. Am I retarded? No. Are you?


I don't complain, I just find them amusing that's all.

That's because the Surge didn't work. You cant simplify it like that. You cannot boil Iraq's violence level down to a soundbite.

 

[Bulla564]

Not this one. It's like arguing against Fox News. It's like you're shouting at the TV set. Sad thing is VictimofFox probably believes this shit, unlike the right wing media pundits who simply seem to practices the most extreme forms of political cyncism.

Well... I come from years of arguing in next-gen-gaming board in gamefaqs. I'm inmune to ultra-ignorance and stupidity.

 

[CharlieDigital]

*golf clap*

Very well spoken sir. Appreciated.

lololol....I mean, he just made the same exact points that 10 other posters made :lol

 

[Jenga]

lololol....I mean, he just made the same exact points that 10 other posters made :lol

But he was more polite about it. or something

 

[The Librarian]

He's looking for his lost dog.

OH WHERE COULD HE BE?!?!?!

 

[CharlieDigital]

But he was more polite about it. or something

The Azih "Richard Dawkins is an Asshole" doctrine?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

So Palin's doing a bus tour of WV.


...wtf lol

And we thought the Penn videos were disgusting. Can't wait to see what the mountain men yell out about Barack Hussein Obama.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

That's because the Surge didn't work. You cant simplify it like that. You cannot boil Iraq's violence level down to a soundbite.

Well... you can. It's just a 2 sentence soundbite, which upsettingly is too much for many to handle.

"The surge worked in reducing casualties during the period it was in effect. But unfortunately did not meet the actual goal of getting the Iraqi government to take over security responsibilities."

 

[SouthernDragon]

Jesus, you guys. Perhaps ya'll are old, bitter, and worn out, but... well, look, the man is at least attempting to engage in a conversation here. He's laid out his positions, and is ready to be challenged.

If you reply, even correctly, with the preface "ok, fucktard, here are the facts" or something similar, how can you hope to talk, forget convincing him or getting him to understand your viewpoint.

Look, I have met people, online and off, that deserve the derision you heap upon the conservatives that walk in here. But there's a difference between the people I've met and the conservatives in this thread: the people here are at least attempting to engage in dialog. If they were treated with a modicum of respect, perhaps they'd come around. Shoot, if the positions were flipped, and this was a McCain-heavy forum, I'd doubt I'd even try.

Edit:

lololol....I mean, he just made the same exact points that 10 other posters made

I did so in a way that was not condescending, left it open to further debate, and did not offend the poster. I challenged his points in a respectful manner and laid out those positions in a concise manner which did not assume I was all knowing (well, except for a few which were, well... not subject to opinion. But I was still nice about it!).

 

[Souldriver]

lololol....I mean, he just made the same exact points that 10 other posters made :lol

He's just trying to create the image that he accepts other views, but that you have to say them in very polite matter, and that we're wild beasts who don't know how to argue.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

down 128 as trades finalize.

it was down 660 in the first 5 minutes, rallied, dropped more, was up 300 at one point, then lost all the gains and dropped again.

while it's "good" that it didnt close down 700, it is horrible for it to be so volatile. like, beyond bad. its never traded within a 1000 point range before. thats an 8.5% range (for today's market).

I know nothing at all about this, but it almost does sound like a good thing. It sounds like the volatility may mean that it's trying to find the true bottom and it's a tug of war between emotion and real value.

/looking for silver lining

 

[Hilbert]

BLAH BLAH BLAH SURGE WORKED BLAH BLAH BLAH ---- But,

Yeah--- Anyone who knows anything about semantics in grammar and the English language can tell you that you can agree with someone up to a point "BUT" when you use "BUT" you're basically saying they're wrong while interjecting your opinion of them being wrong.

That's because life is more complex than a simple yes or no answer. Especially to this complex Iraq situation. Try to get some perspective.

Oregon eh? Best state in the union. You are giving it a bad name. Good thing it's going blue anyway.

Where are you? I grew up in Grants Pass. Republican central.

 

[The Librarian]

Jesus, you guys. Perhaps ya'll are old, bitter, and worn out, but... well, look, the man is at least attempting to engage in a conversation here. He's laid out his positions, and is ready to be challenged.

If you reply, even correctly, with the preface "ok, fucktard, here are the facts" or something similar, how can you hope to talk, forget convincing him or getting him to understand your viewpoint.

Look, I have met people, online and off, that deserve the derision you heap upon the conservatives that walk in here. But there's a difference between the people I've met and the conservatives in this thread: the people here are at least attempting to engage in dialog. If they were treated with a modicum of respect, perhaps they'd come around. Shoot, if the positions were flipped, and this was a McCain-heavy forum, I'd doubt I'd even try.

Agreed. Insults never get anyone anywhere, especially on the, GASP, internet.

 

[speculawyer]

So Palin's doing a bus tour of WV.


...wtf lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol

I can't tell if this is idiocy for touring a state that they will win no matter what, or genius in finding a clever way to hide her away. :lol

 

[speculawyer]

The Azih "Richard Dawkins is an Asshole" doctrine?

:lol

I guess you gotta pick the right delivery style for the right audience. Sometimes you need Sagan, sometimes you need Dawkins, and sometimes you need Maher.

 

[Stinkles]

*golf clap*

Very well spoken sir. Appreciated.

He disproved most of your arguments with facts - I am glad that you have accepted you were wrong. Now perhaps you can reconsider your voting strategy, now that you know your initial premise was largely erroneous.

 

[SouthernDragon]

According to 538, VW has a chance of flipping.

Now, since there aren't many polls there, I doubt the veracity of that claim, as do they, but, if it should so happen... epic undertakings, to be sure.

Edit: Can I be Sagan? I like Sagan. He sounds nice, from what I've heard of him.

By the way, fellows, using this technique (calm discussion) I've managed two sway to fellows from McCain's camp to Obama's. <3

 

[Learn2read]

Even saying the surge worked militarily is misleading. There's evidence that alot of the violence decreased because the ethic cleansing process worked...

Not only was the surge ineffective at providing an environment for political progress, it likely directly contributed to the political failure by strengthening local tribesmen with no interest in a unified central gov't.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Jesus, you guys. Perhaps ya'll are old, bitter, and worn out, but... well, look, the man is at least attempting to engage in a conversation here. He's laid out his positions, and is ready to be challenged.

If you reply, even correctly, with the preface "ok, fucktard, here are the facts" or something similar, how can you hope to talk, forget convincing him or getting him to understand your viewpoint.

Look, I have met people, online and off, that deserve the derision you heap upon the conservatives that walk in here. But there's a difference between the people I've met and the conservatives in this thread: the people here are at least attempting to engage in dialog. If they were treated with a modicum of respect, perhaps they'd come around. Shoot, if the positions were flipped, and this was a McCain-heavy forum, I'd doubt I'd even try.

No. Conservatives that walk in, are our punching bags for heaping on us 8 years of utter insanity.

Spoiler

There's a reason he's got that tag.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

And? Is it going to change your mind? Or is this your pissant weak shit way of retreating from debating on points you have no idea about?

I maintain that we're wasting breath on the likes of you, and that most of us are simply here to stroke our own egos using you as a punching bag. As am I.

I'm not really retreating..... I just like to hear the bounce back on what people think on about what I think. So my errors for his time in office, good to know those are corrected. I still maintain that on the global scale of thing, he's not ready, but I guess it won't matter anyways since by GAF's standards, he's already the next President anyways, so my point(s) are moot.

The problem you guys have is your all so angry at people like me. I pipe up and say something that is completely out of the realm of what the majority thinks, don't back it up, and then you end up calling me names because I'm ignorant of what the issues are. Truth be told, I've read some of the issues, but not all of them.

I don't spend all day going around reading news articles or watching CNN or Fox to try and make my opinions... these are all based on snippets of things I've read, things I've heard etc.

What I get from this is a singular point of you guys saying.. "Victim... you dumbfuck... Think and know the issues before you open your mouth on them next time... ok?"

I'm cool with that, I really am. Knowing that Republicans and Independents are under represented here, I pipe up when I see the Democrat hype train in full swing. Sure I may come off as unintelligible of the full spectrum of issues, but no one can be a subject matter expert on everything... right?

 

[Nabs]

Barack 'Osama' On Upstate Absentee Ballots

The TU reports approximately 300 voters in Rensselaer County received absentee ballots on which Barack Obama's name appears Barack "Osama."

Both the Democratic and Republican elections officials are insisting this was merely a "typo" and a "mistake."

 

[MrHicks]

Well... you can. It's just a 2 sentence soundbite, which upsettingly is too much for many to handle.

"The surge worked in reducing casualties during the period it was in effect. But unfortunately did not meet the actual goal of getting the Iraqi government to take over security responsibilities."

also allot of the "lowered" violence is because the US BRIBES local tribal leaders to stay calm
when the money stops coming in things will get worse again

 

[Joe]

posted??

 

[CharlieDigital]

He disproved most of your arguments with facts - I am glad that you have accepted you were wrong. Now perhaps you can reconsider your voting strategy, now that you know your initial premise was largely erroneous.

He won't; he just doesn't like mean people picking on him. I'm sure that despite the facts, he will maintain his position that Obama is "risky", "inexperienced", "going to take his guns away", "associated himself with shady characters", and so on.

Meh.

 

[speculawyer]

According to 538, VW has a chance of flipping.

Now, since there aren't many polls there, I doubt the veracity of that claim, as do they, but, if it should so happen... epic undertakings, to be sure.

So basically the campaign is now "Let's try not to lose in a landslide."

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

- Fails to admit when he's wrong when something has worked (IE see "the surge")

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Jesus, has anything happened today? Seems like another day lost for McCain.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Barack 'Osama' On Upstate Absentee Ballots

'B' is pretty far away from 'S' on any English keyboard type. They certainly don't look anything like each other. BS is right, though.

 

[Odrion]

VictimOfGrief
FlightOfHeaven

 

[maynerd]

BLAH BLAH BLAH SURGE WORKED BLAH BLAH BLAH ---- But,

Yeah--- Anyone who knows anything about semantics in grammar and the English language can tell you that you can agree with someone up to a point "BUT" when you use "BUT" you're basically saying they're wrong while interjecting your opinion of them being wrong.

Perhaps you should outline your understanding of the point of the surge and explain based upon your understanding why it worked.

 

[speculawyer]

Barack 'Osama' On Upstate Absentee Ballots

26 letter in the alphabet and removing 'b' means it was 1/25 that a random mistake would be 's'. And no, 's' isn't real close to 'b' on a keyboard.

And what were the chances of that letter in his name being changed?

Random mistake, my ass.

 

[X26]

Well the 'b' and the 's' are so close together on your average keyboard tha ta mistake is udnersta-oh wait

that's a pretty bottom of the barrel kind of pathetic

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Specifics as to why I don't trust Obama as good leader for me in general:
- Senator for 2 yrs. Lack of experience on a global scale
- Against people's right to own firearms
- Believes in Global Warming more so than McCain (don't agree with Global Warming is man made)
- Fails to admit when he's wrong when something has worked (IE see "the surge")
- Is wanting more Federal Government (IE Health Care) to oversee the American people and wants to spend more money in doing so.
- Has a wack nut of a former Pastor of a Church he has attended more than 20 years.

So those are just some of my reasons.

I agree with pretty much everything you said though I think man has had a pretty big part in global warming.

Obama isn't experienced. No, Palin isn't either but last I checked she isn't running for President.

Obama has a history of wanting to make it harder for people to own guns and even outright banning ones people already own.

I don't put much weight into who his preacher was but the bottom line is the dude has kept company with some pretty fucked up people and has lied and tried to downplay his relationships with said people. Now Obama supporters will say those relationships are no big deal but if that's true, why lie about them? Why try to hide them?

I'll save the elitists time by replying for them:

LOL REDNECK
GET OUT OF HERE IDIOT
LOL GO FUCK UR COUSIN
SOUTH LOL
RACIST

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Perhaps you should outline your understanding of the point of the surge and explain based upon your understanding why it worked.

The surge was more troops.

Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

 

[Stridone]

I'll save the elitists time by replying for them:

LOL REDNECK
GET OUT OF HERE IDIOT
LOL GO FUCK UR COUSIN
SOUTH LOL

Nah, the "elitists" already shot his points to oblivion with mere facts. Nice try though.

 

[The Librarian]

Whoa, PoliGAF, slow down.

 

[GhaleonEB]

According to 538, VW has a chance of flipping.

Now, since there aren't many polls there, I doubt the veracity of that claim, as do they, but, if it should so happen... epic undertakings, to be sure.

I dismissed the ARG poll showing Obama ahead in West Virginia yesterday, but with today's news that Palin is being sent on a bus tour of the state, I think the possibility of it flipping has to be taken seriously.

Then again, McCain has shown such ineptness in the states he campaigns in, from telegraphing the Michigan pull-out to repeat appearances in Wisconsin and Iowa, this could just be further evidence of no coherent campaign strategy.

But those are both good scenarios. Either the electoral map is collapsing to the point where Palin is being deployed to previously safe states, or the McCain camp is so disorganized that they are making bad decisions about where they campaign.

Either situation is fine with me.