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[CharlieDigital]

So what happens if I vote Obama......?

Seriously?

Vote with your own beliefs and principles. If you want to vote for McCain, at least do it knowing all of the facts on both candidates. This is all GAF can ask for: vote based on facts and how these facts align with your principles.

The fact is that Obama will not take actions to overturn Roe v. Wade. If your principles dictate that this is an important issue, then we can't hate on you for not voting Obama (i.e. JayDubs, Branduil, and others who are staunchly pro-life).

The fact is that Obama will work to enact some form of universal health coverage. If your principles dictate that you cannot support "big government", then we can't hate on you for not voting Obama (i.e. JayDubs, PrivateWHudson, TomServo, and others who are staunchly conservative).

The fact is that Obama will raise taxes on the top 5% of wage earners in the US. If your principles dictate that progressive taxes are inherently unfair, then we can't hate on you for not voting Obama (i.e. JayDubs, who I believe is for the Fair Tax).

The fact is that Obama will not support gay "marriage". If your principles dictate that this is inherently unjust, then we can't hate on you for not voting Obama (i.e. Gaborn). Although your judgment on how to bring about real change should be brought to question :lol

Pro-Obama GAF simply demands that your arguments and statements be based on facts. Whether you choose to vote Obama, McCain, Barr, or even McKinney depends on how your interpretation of the facts aligns with your principles.

That's all.

 

[Jonm1010]

WTF, why are so many practically praying that Obama is faking his religion? Some of you guys just blow my mind. He has show a depth of knowledge of Christianity lacking in many, and you want to come out with "well, yea.. he did it for the votes...". What the hell.

Not so much saying hes faking his religion but its pretty clear he joined Wrights church largely out of political motivations. I cant prove it but the evidence suggests it to me. Im not saying hes an atheist but if I had to guess hes probably much more agnostic and along the lines of Jefferson in a deist kind of sense. At least thats what I get out of his books and his history.

 

[SouthernDragon]

So what happens if I vote Obama......?

Oh, wait, I think I misunderstood.

Well, I think that confidence in the economy would definitely get a boost, since a strong majority of Americans would have voted for him, where as with McCain, it'll be, at best, the slimmest of margins and would have the image of a bitterly divided nation once more. Obama's pulling in support across the board, and I think that that admittedly psychological effect would improve the markets briefly.

His sound economic policies may help mitigate and shorten the effects of the recession we find ourselves in, improve the basic structure of the current financial system, and improve the value of the dollar.

His grasp on foreign policy will bring back our allies, allowing us to distribute the burden and take an intelligent and comprehensive attack on the problems that plague us abroad.

His appreciation of the sciences will increase funding for research, bringing back and encouraging many of the brilliant minds that got us here where we are today, and could further boost the economy through creation of a new job sector (alternative sources).

His focus on domestic issues could inspire a New Deal sort of proposition, where America's infrastructure could be modernized, creating new jobs, decreasing unemployment, and driving us out of this ditch.

(I'd like to note that I'm not really a fan of "big government" but I do believe that when the free market contracts, the government has to step in to give it breathing room, and then the government should contract to allow the free market to expand again, once the fundamentals have recovered.)

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[GhaleonEB]

SERIOUSLY, where the heck is TROOPERGATE?

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/132527

Live blog from earlier, posting updates on the progress of the meeting. If they report out today, it will be late and be buried in the Friday afternoon news cycle.

 

[The Librarian]

Alright, PoliGAF, I have a grand idea: let's name some republicans that deserve our admiration.
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt

Who else?

 

[MightyHealthy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/obama-called-traitor-agai_n_133613.html

Obama gets called a traitor again by McCain's crowd, he says nothing and just keeps talking. Classy! Only the candidates on the stump can keep this under control, and they are doing nothing but encourage this behavior with their silence.

Even comedians call out dumb shit their audience yells.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Alright, PoliGAF, I have a grand idea: let's name some republicans that deserve our admiration:
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt

Who else?

Jesus Christ
Mohammed
Abraham

 

[Dan]

SERIOUSLY, where the heck is TROOPERGATE?

Seemingly being held up long enough to miss the news cycle.

 

[agrajag]

So fill me in GAF, I have been away from internet access all day, is the ACORN voter fraud thing disastrous for the Obama campaign?

 

[Tamanon]

So fill me in GAF, I have been away from internet access all day, is the ACORN voter fraud thing disastrous for the Obama campaign?

Not at all. It's just part of a narrative for post-election.

 

[Byakuya769]

Not so much saying hes faking his religion but its pretty clear he joined Wrights church largely out of political motivations. I cant prove it but the evidence suggests it to me. Im not saying hes an atheist but if I had to guess hes probably much more agnostic and along the lines of Jefferson in a deist kind of sense. At least thats what I get out of his books and his history.

Being a deist or agnostic doesn't gel with a described faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Fatalah]

So fill me in GAF, I have been away from internet access all day, is the ACORN voter fraud thing disastrous for the Obama campaign?

No, I think it's too complicated of a story to have legs.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

How would your vote be a waste? Do you see Democrats in Texas being dissuaded to not vote because they know the state will go red anyway?

Have you ever been to Oregon? Multnomah County runs the entire fucking state.

 

[MightyHealthy]

So fill me in GAF, I have been away from internet access all day, is the ACORN voter fraud thing disastrous for the Obama campaign?

it's a meme of sorts for republicans, but for normal folks who don't make huge leaps of faith in logic, ACORN is just a nut :lol

 

[agrajag]

Not at all. It's just part of a narrative for post-election.

Really? I would expect the McCain camp to be all over Obama's ties with ACORN.

 

[Sharp]

What is this % based on?

The last President to die before 78 who didn't die because of a careless lifestyle or freak illness was Coolidge and he was President in the 20's. We've made a lot of medical progress since then.

McCain has a preexisting medical condition, melanoma. And at his age it's pretty much guaranteed that he has a number of others as well. I don't know how correct the statistics actually are, and they probably come from the same people who were writing articles in 2000 about how Cheney's heart couldn't last all eight years, but it's definitely not a possibility I'm eager to dismiss. More to the point, I think the idea that McCain either didn't consider the possibility that he might not be able to act as president due to relapse or another illness (death is certainly not the only thing that could sideline him), or considered it and still thought it was appropriate to select someone as inexperienced, willfully ignorant, occasionally offensive, and generally unqualified as Palin to be next in line for the presidency. It's also possible that he just didn't vet her correctly, but that doesn't really help his case to be honest. Of course, there are a lot of other reasons not to elect McCain than the terrible way he's run the campaign, from his hawkish outlook on the war to the inanities that his advisers and lobbyists regularly spout (you should be scared too if our next president is relying on the advice of people who believe that everyone already has health insurance because people are legally required to be admitted to emergency rooms) to how completely ineffective he will be in office, but despite all that I am principally voting for Obama, not against McCain. I think McCain is doing what he thinks he needs to do to win, and I understand how frustrated he is with the 2000 primaries and the way this election has been going for him thus far. That doesn't make him a good candidate, of course, but sans Palin, his advisers, and about eight years, I wouldn't have thought he was a bad one either.

 

[AstroLad]

Really? I would expect the McCain camp to be all over Obama's ties with ACORN.

It wouldn't have legs or gain much traction but the McCain campaign has been handling it so eptly as always that it's overshadowing everything else.

 

[Fatalah]

Really? I would expect the McCain camp to be all over Obama's ties with ACORN.

:lol I think your tag is a little much, no? What the hell did you do to deserve that?

 

[greepoman]

Alright, PoliGAF, I have a grand idea: let's name some republicans that deserve our admiration.
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt

Who else?

The problem is the definition and values of Republicans have changed and evolved over time.

"The Republican Party was created in 1854 in opposition to the Kansas-Nebraska Act that would have allowed the expansion of slavery into Kansas. Besides opposition to slavery, the new party put forward a progressive vision of modernizing the United States — emphasizing higher education, banking, railroads, industry and cities, while promising free homesteads to farmers."

They seem to be leaning towards the opposite of most of those values now lol.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Hmm, the dude puting out the fire is a black man. Intentional? Subliminal? :lol

 

[besada]

Alright, PoliGAF, I have a grand idea: let's name some republicans that deserve our admiration.
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt

Who else?

Virtually every President has done SOMETHING laudable. I hate Nixon so bad that years after his death I still spit when I say his name, yet even I'll agree that Nixon did the world a mitzvah by engaging with China.

I also can't think of a President I liked that didn't make me feel ashamed at some point. Clinton was the worst of the shameful Democrats, yet the most popular and successful overall.

I liked Bush Sr. because he wasn't Reagan. I liked Ford because he wasn't Nixon and he fell down and amused the world. He also had a very good tan. I like Ike, because as a soldier he warned about the rise of the military-industrial complex, even though everyone ignored him.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I know that there are a lot of people replying to VoG, but if he doesn't reply to me...

I CALL VICTORY

colberticalledit.gif

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

That doesn't make him a great candidate, but sans Palin, his advisers, and about eight years, I wouldn't think he was a bad one either.

He's a bad candidate.

 

[The Librarian]

Jesus Christ
Mohammed
Abraham

Liberal terrorist.

 

[Jim]

People are getting bored of her, quick, get a stylist. Maybe people will like her again.

 

[Tamanon]

Really? I would expect the McCain camp to be all over Obama's ties with ACORN.

They tried, had a conference call on it, but there's way too many strings to have to tie to make it any sort of effective attack. It basically comes down to them saying that Obama did some legal work for them many years ago.

 

[Sharp]

He's a bad candidate.

Yes. But I would take 2000 McCain over 2000 Bush any day of the week.

 

[Jonm1010]

Being a deist or agnostic doesn't gel with a described faith in Jesus Christ.

Im telling you what I believe his philosophies are at the core. Its really a non-sequitur and completely irrelevant to begin with and I only used it to explain further why I think Obama joined Wrights church. Even if he is a stout christian, he definitely joined wrights church out of strong political motivations and that was the only point i was making. And he definitely is not the more dogmatic type that interprets the bible literally.

 

[Tamanon]

Alright, PoliGAF, I have a grand idea: let's name some republicans that deserve our admiration.
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt

Who else?

Bush41 was a helluva lot better than people give him credit for. I mean, hell, he even raised taxes when needed to, even though he promised never to. At least he was Country First for real.

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163339

Obama up 52-41 in latest Newsweek poll

Internals:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163337?tid=relatedcl

 

[syllogism]

e: beaten

 

[devilhawk]

Undisputed research shows that the defacto ethnic cleansing of Sunni from Shiite neighborhoods (and vice versa) in Baghdad had a larger effect on the reduction of violence than did the surge. It is also demonstrable right now, that the surge's original intended goal - to stablize and propel an internal Iraqi strategy, is no further than it was pre-surge.

Obama should in fact say the surge failed, or at best, was a waste of money and lives, but that's emotionally unpopular.

Some of the 'undisputed evidence' you are talking about consisted of nothing but counting the numbers of lights that are turned on at night in certain neighborhoods.

 

[The Lamonster]

God when can we move on from VictimOfGrief? His mind will not change no matter what liberal "facts" you tell him. At some point you must stop feeding the trolls so they can get bored and move on.

Slow news day I guess. Oh wait it wasn't.

 

[ViperVisor]

Has he publically stated in any way shape or form at the debates in front of MILLIONS of watching people that the surge has worked? Simple answer. No. Am I retarded? No. Are you?

Surge Worked. Is the retarded BULLSHIT. It is/was not due to 15% more troops.

 

[LCfiner]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163339

Obama up 52-41 in latest Newsweek poll

Internals:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163337?tid=relatedcl

a good section that should be emphasized.

Obama appears to have broadened his coalition of support and made inroads with groups that have not reliably embraced him over the course of the long presidential campaign. He now leads McCain among both men (54 percent to 40 percent) and women (50 percent to 41 percent). He now wins every age group of voters—including those over 65 years of age, who back him over McCain 49 to 43 percent. Supporters of Hillary Clinton, as many as a fifth of whom had at one point told pollsters they'd support McCain over Obama, now back the Democratic nominee 88 percent to 7 percent.

 

[Tobor]

What's happening fellas? This election still over, or what?

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

So fill me in GAF, I have been away from internet access all day, is the ACORN voter fraud thing disastrous for the Obama campaign?

The Obama campaing is barely holding it's head above water because of it.

 

[Stinkles]

Some of the 'undisputed evidence' you are talking about consisted of nothing but counting the numbers of lights that are turned on at night in certain neighborhoods.

Who is disputing that research then, and what's your contrary evidence?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

What's happening fellas? This election still over, or what?

If you don't vote, that is.

 

[besada]

What's happening fellas? This election still over, or what?

Bob Barr won.

 

[Hilbert]

Have you ever been to Oregon? Multnomah County runs the entire fucking state.

And like when I lived in rural southern Oregon I will say "Thank God".

 

[vas_a_morir]

Haha, on the local news (WSAZ, Huntington-CharlestonWV), they showed a new WV presidential poll:

McCain 42
Obama 50

Crazy. That's what I call a swing. I can't find the source.

EDIT: http://wvgazette.com/News/200810090749

The poll is heavily disputed, because, to be honest, this can't be right. Can't even be kinda right.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I don't really understand the Acorn stuff. What are they trying to accomplish? It's obvious they submitted fraudulent voter registrations, but why? Where they actually planning to rig the election or did they just make shit up so it looked like they where working while they where at the strip club?

 

[devilhawk]

Bush41 was a helluva lot better than people give him credit for. I mean, hell, he even raised taxes when needed to, even though he promised never to. At least he was Country First for real.

Ike is normally in the top 10 of many president surveys.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH2iufUU1f4 :lol :lol

I remember Obama getting so much shit from the McCain camp at the time of this speech and "playing the race card" but damn did he have down exactly what was going to happen.

 

[besada]

I don't really understand the Acorn stuff. What are they trying to accomplish? It's obvious they submitted fraudulent voter registrations, but why? Where they actually planning to rig the election or did they just make shit up so it looked like they where working while they where at the strip club?

Acorn frequently hires the homeless to do leg work, so you guess which is more likely.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Obama's expanding his lead, 538 takes commentators to task for dismissing the ground game, WV looks to be, implausibly, a swing state.

Oh, and people are tired of swinging sticks at VoG, and he's tired of replying. It was a fun two pages, though.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH2iufUU1f4 :lol :lol

I remember Obama getting so much shit from the McCain camp at the time of this speech and "playing the race card" but damn did he have down exactly what was going to happen.

He's definately wearing better suits nowadays.

 

[Tamanon]

I don't really understand the Acorn stuff. What are they trying to accomplish? It's obvious they submitted fraudulent voter registrations, but why? Where they actually planning to rig the election or did they just make shit up so it looked like they where working while they where at the strip club?

It's because ACORN hires people to do registrations by volume, so some people faked registrations just to get money, it's not a voter thing or anything else.

 

[agrajag]

If you don't vote, that is.

:-( Please tell me the kitty won.