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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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F

Fox318

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I think it's funny that McCain defending Obama will probably do more for McCain's campaign than a month of tying him with Ayers would have.
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It won't do him any good. If Palin opens her mouth again his campaign is done unless Obama really fucks up at the debate. Like he says he browses NeoGAF in his spare time.
29kyh6c.gif
 
P

Pakkidis

Member
McCain gets some class in him but is it too late. Seems like the mob wants blood. McCain is in a reallllllllllly bad position. If he stops the attacks it will be seen nothing more as a cheap attempt and everybody will know the whole Obama Ayers had no traction and so nobody has anything to fear. If he starts being more positive is it too late? Is his message strong enough? Will he look hypocritical that he switched positions so quickly?


Poor McCain :( If he stayed positive and didn't get desperate maybe things will look different now.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Pakkidis said:
McCain gets some class in him but is it too late. Seems like the mob wants blood. McCain is in a reallllllllllly bad position. If he stops the attacks it will be seen nothing more as a cheap attempt and everybody will know the whole Obama Ayers had no traction and so nobody has anything to fear. If he starts being more positive is it too late? Is his message strong enough? Will he look hypocritical that he switched positions so quickly?


Poor McCain :( If he stayed positive and didn't get desperate maybe things will look different now.
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While I do think it's too late, I think McCain would have done better to acknowledge that Obama is a good man with good ideas, but McCain is much more experienced and ready for the presidency.

McCain went the stupid route and tried to tear Obama down to make himself look better, when he should have built Obama UP and put himself above him.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWY0Q-B0DcZTK5qedVqxD1oBFphQD93NU2400

NFL players struggling with who to vote for :lol

As the presidential race revs up, political conversations in NFL locker rooms echo those in workplaces nationwide. Taxes. Economy. McCain. Obama. War. Terrorism. White. Black. And a dilemma for these high-paid athletes: principles or pocketbook? "We're right in the middle," said Washington Redskins veteran Philip Daniels. "We've all got family members that are not doing so well. Democrats would help them out, but Republicans would help us out."
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The discussions and mini-debates, however, always seem to come back to money. Days after Daniels expressed his feelings inside the Redskins locker room, teammate Ethan Albright held up a stamped envelope containing his absentee ballot, ready to be mailed to his home state of North Carolina. As he put the envelope in his locker, cornerback Shawn Springs called out: "Why you like McCain?"

"I like him," Albright replied with a nod, "because he ain't raising taxes."

That's a sentiment reiterated by New York Giants punter Jeff Feagles, also a McCain supporter.

"He is going to tax the wealthy, which is what we are," said Feagles, referring to Obama. "We are in that category. You look at those kinds of implications, and I hate using that word, it will affect us."
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Feagles' teammate, defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, couldn't disagree more.

"It's insulting to think you would vote based on how it affects you financially," Kiwanuka said. "I had that conversation even before I got my signing bonus. It's a matter of general policy and what you believe in and what that person stands for. ... When you look at it, I spent the majority of my life with an average upbringing to say the least, and that has shaped how I vote a lot more than the last couple of years living this lifestyle."
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Torn between the two arguments is Redskins cornerback Fred Smoot. He was one of the few Washington players to publicly support Sen. John Kerry four years ago, but this time he has yet to make up his mind.

"We're coming from Democratic backgrounds, but we got Republican money right now," Smoot said. "That's kind of hard, because you see it from both sides."
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"There might be some years where honestly you're like, 'Hey, what might be best for me fiscally,' and you may feel like a Republican slant may be a little more appropriate," New York Giants defensive tackle Barry Cofield said. "But I think after Bush's reign of terror, you know, and what we are seeing out of Sarah Palin, I think regardless of your financial station, I think it is pretty easy to support Obama."
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The dilemma gives some a reason to opt out of the process entirely.

"I don't think I'm going to vote," said Washington running back Clinton Portis, the Redskins star known for his colorful opinions. "Because I make Republican income, but I need the Democrats in office, so which way do I go?"

That's one electoral decision that doesn't sit well with Torrence, who has worked so hard to get his teammates involved in the process.

"Regardless of what your beliefs are," Torrence said, "I think it's your responsibility to vote."
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Like I said, if I was very rich, Obama probably wouldn't be a no-brainer although I'd still choose him in the end :lol
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
I would have dropped the bombs as well. More people were killed in Okinawa alone than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Had the war been an invasion and it was Okinawa multiplied by the entire country of Japan the numbers would have been fucking insane. Crazy decision, I'm glad someone took the hit and made it for me.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
kkaabboomm said:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

maybe i'm quite late to the party on this development, but hey, at least he realized a narrative was developing and is trying to possibly do something about it, you know?
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It's about damn time. I don't think he "only just realized a narrative was developing." The narrative was completely intended. He just finally realized it was growing out of his control, and that he had to do something about it.

This gives me hope that way deep down, there still exists the McCain of 2000. I'd still never vote for him in this election, but it seems that he's uncomfortable with the extremely negative way his campaign has turned.

As opposed to Palin, who seems to revel in the negativity. It's disgusting to see.

God help us if she does run in 2012.
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
While I'm glad McCain is trying to clamp down on some of the hate at his rallies, I'm not sure it's in the interest of rational discourse. Like others said, he didn't do it until the media called him out on it, and I'm sure he'll try to use it against Obama in some way.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Cyan said:
It's about damn time. I don't think he "only just realized a narrative was developing." The narrative was completely intended. He just finally realized it was growing out of his control, and that he had to do something about it.

This gives me hope that way deep down, there still exists the McCain of 2000. I'd still never vote for him in this election, but it seems that he's uncomfortable with the extremely negative way his campaign has turned.

As opposed to Palin, who seems to revel in the negativity. It's disgusting to see.

God help us if she does run in 2012.
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You do know that she's only doing what she's told, right?
 
S

Souldriver

Member
RubxQub said:
TPM has the McCain comments on their site.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
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You know I actually feel the worst for the woman calling Obama an arab. She comes off as so naive, repeating the things the McCain campaign has let her to believe, only to let the mic be taken away from her by McCain himself while she asks her idol "he's not?", as if McCain has just set her up, humiliating her in front of thousands of people when he says the opposite of what he's been implying for weeks on end.


:/

This whole situation is fucked. But I have no compassion or respect for McCain here, since this is what he created, and he knew damn well he did. It was part of his strategy, but it got out of hand.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
Holy shit, this totally reliable site called hillbuzz says that a big story is about to break about Obama's involvement with Rezko. Apparently Obama may face jail time! Game over, man!

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/urgent-big-story-about-to-break-we-are-one-step-closer-to-rezko-giving-obama-up-to-federal-prosecutors/

:lol

Interesting to see McCain reacting to the lady calling Obama an Arab. Ever since you could see him cringe when an audience member yelled "Terrorist!" at a rally I've been wondering if McCain would eventually be shamed into rebuking some of this nonsense. Considering his experience with Rove's tactics in 2000 I'm surprised that he has let the subversive smearing go as far as he had. He must see the parallels as clearly as any of us.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
I think McCain was fine with the hate filled attacks, he just never imagined that it would cause his supporters to go so out of control. McCain might have turned his back on most of the things he stood for in 2000, but I don't think he's so far gone that he can sit back as he watches his supporters scream death threats against Obama at his rallies. Palin is the exact opposite though, seemingly inciting this at her own personal rallies.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Souldriver said:
You know I actually feel the worst for the woman calling Obama an arab.
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Don't. There are probably groups of folks cheering her on at home and in her community and praising her for telling it like it is.

This whole situation is fucked. But I have no compassion or respect for McCain here, since this is what he created, and he knew damn well he did. It was part of his strategy, but it got out of hand.
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Ditto.

Kusagari said:
I think McCain was fine with the hate filled attacks, he just never imagined that it would cause his supporters to go so out of control. McCain might have turned his back on most of the things he stood for in 2000, but I don't think he's so far gone that he can sit back as he watches his supporters scream death threats against Obama at his rallies. Palin is the exact opposite though, seemingly inciting this at her own personal rallies.
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I think the biggest thing is that Obama actually called him out on this with the "Say it to my face" comment. He knew he couldn't go into Wednesday's debate with the same approach because he'd have to either man up or look like a big pussy.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
You do know that she's only doing what she's told, right?
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I think that for the most part, they're both doing what they're told right now. That doesn't change the fact that Palin seems to revel in negativity.
 
T

TDG

Banned
besada said:
Soldier's children weren't taken from them and sold as a matter of course. They weren't denied literacy. Their names and cultures weren't taken. When they died, they died as heroes, unlike slaves who were often buried in unmarked graves.

None of this includes, of course, the hundreds of thousands that died making the middle passage, or touches on the fact that men, women, and children were slaves as opposed to only young men, or that fact that masters raped their female property.

Attempting to paint the draft as equivalent to American slavery is repugnant. There's no question to me that requiring people to fight and die is wrong, but that doesn't represent moral equivalence.
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I agree, but I was really only arguing that over the course the course of the war, the soldiers were arguably in a worse situation than most slaves. Of course the soldiers who didn't die in the war had far better lives than most slaves did.

However, calling a military draft slavery is pretty fair, and it doesn't mean that the draft = every form of slavery ever. Young men were unwillingly sent into the war, and many died for a cause they didn't believe in. Many were killed, and many were disfigured for life. They came home scarred for life by what they had seen, and WWI directly led to the disillusionment of the Lost Generation. All for something that they were forced to do. That's still not worse than American slavery, but it's pretty awful, and it could certainly be categorized as slavery.

So to sum up, I agree with you, but I think that in the short-term, they're comparable.
 
L

Lo-Volt

Member
3pheMeraLmiX said:
Hard to keep up with this thread; don't know if it was posted already:

McCain supporter calls Obama an Arab, McCain defends Obama
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Well, that's nice of him. Much harder to close Pandora's Box than it is to open it like his campaign did earlier this week, though. So will he keep doing this for the rest of the campaign and try to salvage the little honor he has left after all this bullshit? Will he pull that rancid ad? Will he keep trying to stop the crowd he unleashed earlier this week? Will he fire the racist little shit who put this into his head?
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Ravidrath said:
While I'm glad McCain is trying to clamp down on some of the hate at his rallies, I'm not sure it's in the interest of rational discourse. Like others said, he didn't do it until the media called him out on it, and I'm sure he'll try to use it against Obama in some way.
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I don't know about this. I know a lot of people are pissed off at McCain right now, myself included, but seeing that clip it really did seem like McCain was regretful. Now you can certainly say "fuck him, he had it coming", but I don't think he was doing it purely for political purposes. McCain has never been able to hide his emotions, physically-speaking, and he seemed pretty remorseful to me for what his campaign has turned into.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
I don't know why people are giving props to McCain for discrediting that old woman. He did it because he knew of the backlash he would've gotten from the media. The main problem we have here is that McCain and Palin are injecting bigotry and fearmongering to their supporters, which is why we've been seeing such a hostile crowd at McCain/Palin rallies. Now I can't compare the two to a certain dictator, because that would invoke Godwin's Law, so I'll use the fascism, as speculawyer mentioned in another thread. :lol

So f*** McCain and Palin.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Cloudy said:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWY0Q-B0DcZTK5qedVqxD1oBFphQD93NU2400

NFL players struggling with who to vote for :lol














Like I said, if I was very rich, Obama probably wouldn't be a no-brainer although I'd still choose him in the end :lol
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Kiwanuke (SP?) ++.

That guy has it right, its not about whats right for you, its whats right for the country.

My guess is I will pay more under Obama, but thats now what this election is about.
 
JCreasy

JCreasy

Member
I think the old woman was a plant.

This is probably how they planned to pull the plug once the smearing started to backfire, which they probably anticipated. They simply wanted to stoke the flames of racial hatred and division.

Plus, it's pretty disingenuous of him to do this NOW, after they did this aallll week. It's obvious he's responding to all the criticism he's getting from members of his own party, and not out of any sense of morality.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
The audience booed him when he said they should be respectful.

Honestly I'm glad this whole episode happened. Good chance to see some true colors.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Zeliard said:
I don't know about this. I know a lot of people are pissed off at McCain right now, myself included, but seeing that clip it really did seem like McCain was regretful. Now you can certainly say "fuck him, he had it coming", but I don't think he was doing it purely for political purposes. McCain has never been able to hide his emotions, physically-speaking, and he seemed pretty remorseful to me for what his campaign has turned into.
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I agree with this. Did McCain want to fan the flames of controversy and bring Obama down? You bet. Does he want people at his rallies threatening to kill him and revealing how shut-in and jingoistic they are? Absolutely not. And let's not even get into the thought that going on this way would probably spur some idiot to take action into his own hands, if you know what I mean.

Also, I find it deplorable that being an Arab in America is like being the spawn of satan now. Honestly, sometimes it seems like America can't exist without funneling their hate into at least one race or denomination.

Cyan said:
I think that for the most part, they're both doing what they're told right now. That doesn't change the fact that Palin seems to revel in negativity.
Click to expand...

I think you're doing a disservice by assuming that Palin is some focused ball of negativity and Rovian hate and not a dolled-up pawn.
 
Fjolle

Fjolle

Member
Update from troopergate:
UPDATE:The Legislative Council just voted 12-0 to release the report, excerpt for certain parts they consider confidential.

The reporters were to be available immediately, but no one seems to know where to get them here at the Legislative offices.
Click to expand...
 
M

Miroku

Member
John McCain is tarnishing his whole career over these last few weeks. It's sad and pathetic really. If he loses the election I wonder if he will always feel as if he hasn't lived up to his father and grandfathers legacies.
 
JCreasy

JCreasy

Member
AND YES, that's another thing. Isn't it disturbing that they've made the word Arab into a pejorative here?

Seriously. WTH?

If McCain was legit, he would have said, "first of all, there's nothing wrong with being a person of Arab decent. Middle Eastern people are not evil. But we have enemies in the Middle Eastern region."

He could have taken this opportunity to educate his supporters.
 
P

Price Dalton

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Boo. No Keith tonight.
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This guy's okay. What's his name, anyway?

I always thought I detected a slight smirk when he was listening to McCain people spew talking points during MSNBC Live.

Although it would have been incredibly awkward and awesome to have Pat Buchanan guest host instead.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
JCreasy said:
AND YES, that's another thing. Isn't it disturbing that they've made the word Arab into a pejorative here.

Seriously. WTH?

If McCain was legit, he would have said, "first of all, there's nothing wrong with being a person of Arab decent. Middle Eastern people are not evil. But we have enemies in the Middle Easter region."

He could have take this opportunity to educate his supporters.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that would have instantly turned the Republican base on him.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Price Dalton said:
This guy's okay. What's his name, anyway?

I always thought I detected a slight smirk when he was listening to McCain people spew talking points during MSNBC Live.

Although it would have been incredibly awkward and awesome to have Pat Buchanan guest host instead.
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MAKE IT HAPPEN MSNBC!
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Zeliard said:
I don't know about this. I know a lot of people are pissed off at McCain right now, myself included, but seeing that clip it really did seem like McCain was regretful. Now you can certainly say "fuck him, he had it coming", but I don't think he was doing it purely for political purposes. McCain has never been able to hide his emotions, physically-speaking, and he seemed pretty remorseful to me for what his campaign has turned into.
Click to expand...

Like I said above, I think he knew that he couldn't go into the debate next week with the negative shit because he'd have to:

1) Call out Obama to his face, which is exactly what Obama wants.

2) Not do anything, like the last debate, which will come across as cowardly after Obama called him out to "Say it to my face".

McCain had to switch the tone because he has no choice going into the Wed. debate. He already got himself in deep by telling the black dude that he's going to call Obama out on Wright at the debates. Now he has to man up, cower back and look weak to his supporters, or change the tone ASAP.

Let's not forget that these two are going to meet face to face nationally on more time in just 5 days.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
JCreasy said:
AND YES, that's another thing. Isn't it disturbing that they've made the word Arab into a pejorative here.

Seriously. WTH?

If McCain was legit, he would have said, "first of all, there's nothing wrong with being a person of Arab decent. Middle Eastern people are not evil. But we have enemies in the Middle Easter region."

He could have take this opportunity to educate his supporters.
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Yes, but then the chances of the hardcore racists and morons stop supporting him would've been even bigger than now.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Jason's Ultimatum said:
12-0 vote? Hmmm. Seems like it'll be a mixed bag. =\
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Pssh, wasn't it mostly Republicans that launched the investigation in the first place? It's Alaska, they have the majority on most things.
 
K

kkaabboomm

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
12-0 vote? Hmmm. Seems like it'll be a mixed bag. =\
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hey, it was a 12-0 vote in favor of opening the original investigation, maybe they didnt buy the 'political charges' of the mccain camp and were defending their report, regardless of what it says, because they believe the process was fair? it is an R-controlled committee
 
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