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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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B

Barrett2

Member
Fantastic NY Times Op-Ed by conservative bad-ass David Brooks.

I demand all of PoliGAF read this.

The Class War Before Palin
By DAVID BROOKS

Modern conservatism began as a movement of dissident intellectuals. Richard Weaver wrote a book called, “Ideas Have Consequences.” Russell Kirk placed Edmund Burke in an American context. William F. Buckley famously said he’d rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the faculty of Harvard. But he didn’t believe those were the only two options. His entire life was a celebration of urbane values, sophistication and the rigorous and constant application of intellect.

.....
Ronald Reagan was no intellectual, but he had an earnest faith in ideas and he spent decades working through them. He was rooted in the Midwest, but he also loved Hollywood. And for a time, it seemed the Republican Party would be a broad coalition — small-town values with coastal reach.

In 1976, in a close election, Gerald Ford won the entire West Coast along with northeastern states like New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont and Maine. In 1984, Reagan won every state but Minnesota.

.......

What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.

Republicans developed their own leadership style. If Democratic leaders prized deliberation and self-examination, then Republicans would govern from the gut.

George W. Bush restrained some of the populist excesses of his party — the anti-immigration fervor, the isolationism — but stylistically he fit right in. As Fred Barnes wrote in his book, “Rebel-in-Chief,” Bush “reflects the political views and cultural tastes of the vast majority of Americans who don’t live along the East or West Coast. He’s not a sophisticate and doesn’t spend his discretionary time with sophisticates. As First Lady Laura Bush once said, she and the president didn’t come to Washington to make new friends. And they haven’t.”

The political effects of this trend have been obvious. Republicans have alienated the highly educated regions — Silicon Valley, northern Virginia, the suburbs outside of New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and Raleigh-Durham. The West Coast and the Northeast are mostly gone. The Republicans have alienated whole professions. Lawyers now donate to the Democratic Party over the Republican Party at 4-to-1 rates. With doctors, it’s 2-to-1. With tech executives, it’s 5-to-1. With investment bankers, it’s 2-to-1. It took talent for Republicans to lose the banking community.[/I]

Conservatives are as rare in elite universities and the mainstream media as they were 30 years ago. The smartest young Americans are now educated in an overwhelmingly liberal environment.

This year could have changed things. The G.O.P. had three urbane presidential candidates. But the class-warfare clichés took control. Rudy Giuliani disdained cosmopolitans at the Republican convention. Mitt Romney gave a speech attacking “eastern elites.” (Mitt Romney!) John McCain picked Sarah Palin.

........
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B

Blackhead

Redarse
TDG said:
Yes, god forbid there be actual discussion of past politicians' policies in a political thread as opposed to the usual fapping over poll numbers.
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TDG said:
I was mostly playing devil's advocate, but I'm not when I say: being drafted into the military is a form of slavery, and while slaves' lives were worse than soldiers' lives, soldiers were forced into a far more dangerous situation than slaves.


Yep.
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JayDubya said:
Fox318 said:
Its because he uses phrases like "slave solders" instead of a draft army.
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And I will continue to use that phrase; it is accurate.
President Nixon's Commission on an All-Volunteer Force said:
General William Westmoreland: "I don't want to command an army of mercenaries."
Milton Friedman: "General, would you rather command an army of slaves?"
Westmoreland: "I don't like to hear our patriotic draftees referred to as slaves."
Friedman: "I don't like to hear our patriotic volunteers referred to as mercenaries. If they are mercenaries, then I, sir, am a mercenary professor, and you, sir, are a mercenary general; we are served by mercenary physicians, we use a mercenary lawyer, and we get our meat from a mercenary butcher."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

xs_mini_neo said:
Slavery =/= Draft =/= Holocaust

All unnecessary. Pain is pain. (Btw, those that refuse the draft or those who are innocent of crimes that are sent to jail are also in a form of slavery. They lose their freedom and live like slaves and some get killed or raped, plus if they get released they have to deal with the stigma of being a felon. There are also other forms of slavery that are psychological and hard to detect. Slavery (for all races and genders) is still alive and everywhere.)
Click to expand...


Well fuck Milton Friedman. Slaves have been impressed upon by their masters to fight wars. In the War of Independence, American slaves were made to fight against the British. Those are slave soldiers. Slaves were forced into situations just as dangerous as soldiers, with more onerous burdens to boot.

Let's not start with relativism here. This isn't the RIAA where copyright infringement is the same as theft. Prison is not the same as slavery. Drafting is not the same as slavery. They are different forms of oppression yes but that's about it.

*Peeps, I just woke up*

Still there, JayDubya? WAGE-SLAVERY! Boo-ya
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Tommie Hu$tle said:
200px-Moxie.jpg


Moxie says I wouldn't worry about that!
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Man, it's been a while since that's been pulled out. :lol

Sadly, I don't think Arizona is likely to go against its senator.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Oh, and as for the earlier discussion on voting. Remember that as important as this year's election may be, the 2010 election will be even moreso and for every single state in the union. Why? Redistricting. Who gets sent into office in 2010 is in control of how district lines are drawn when the new census comes, affecting the foundation all elections are based upon for the next ten years.

No matter how you feel about voting this year, you absolutely must vote in 2010 no matter where you live.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Hitokage said:
Oh, and as for the earlier discussion on voting. Remember that as important as this year's election may be, the 2010 election will be even moreso and for every single state in the union. Why? Redistricting. Who gets sent into office in 2010 is in control of how district lines are drawn when the new census comes, affecting the foundation all elections are based upon for the next ten years.

No matter how you feel about voting this year, you absolutely must vote in 2010 no matter where you live.
Click to expand...

Thank god we'll have a president who make this simple and clear on a nationwide level.

:D
 
S

Soybean

Member
I'm in line for a rally! Been here for over an hour. So much Philly Obama love, and this is just 1 of 4 rallies in the city today!
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
AndyIsTheMoney said:
bullshit. every minority group, except in the case of native Americans, have influential and powerful representatives. I think if you were to poll a number of black Americans to name the most influential black leaders, Farrakhan would be named. It doesn't mean all black people have to agree with him or respect him, but you have to acknowledge he would be considered an influential and powerful black man. Seriously tell me this isn't true.
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As a black man I take offense to this. There isn't a single person alive I look up to as the leader of blacks in America and for you to assert this, in the face of all logic and all minorities who tell you that you are wrong, displays a disconnect you have with all minority groups in America.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
Just turned on Fox. Sure enough tehy're talking about ACORN.

"Should Obama be talking about his ties to ACORN?"

:lol :lol :lol

These people are beyond a meltdown at this point.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Do you guys think the Secret Service told McCain to kill the terrorist crap? They probably didn't want to start detaining folks at his rallies lol
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
DSWii60 said:
Just wondering, was the Troopergate report talked about? I may have just missed the pages where it was talked about.
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Yeah, it hit and people have basically been patting each other on the back and laughing through the night.
 
G

greepoman

Member
typhonsentra said:
Yeah, it hit and people have basically been patting each other on the back and laughing through the night.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think we need to talk about how she's trying to spin it though. They are saying she didn't abuse her power, but then here is the most hilarious part of there defense:

"Sen. French and Sen. Green may have abused their government power by using public money to pursue a personal vendetta against the Governor, and then agreeing to pursue the PSEA attack against an administration that would not cave in to outrageous union demands."

So Palin is scolding the 2 republican senators of Alaska for carrying out a personal vendetta against the Governor...am I the only one who sees the irony in that???? LOLOLOL
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
Emiru said:
What will happen to poligaf when the election is over?
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Depends. Short term or Long term?
If Obama wins, most of PoliGAf will be taken in the rapture. The thread will largely consist of VictimofGrief and AndyistheMoney debating whether Bush should declare a national emergency or just give the presidency to McCain.

If McCain wins, the meltdown will radiate through the whole of GAF. The people on the board that night will drop like flies.

Either way, poligaf will be no more two weeks after the elections.
 
E

Emiru

Banned
Charred Greyface said:
Depends. Short term or Long term?
If Obama wins, most of PoliGAf will be taken in the rapture. The thread will largely consist of VictimofGrief and AndyistheMoney debating whether Bush should declare a national emergency or just give the presidency to McCain.

If McCain wins, then meltdown will radiate through the whole of GAF. The people on the board that night will drop like flies.

Either way, poligaf will be no more two weeks after the elections.
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:(
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
Jailed political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko, the Chicago real estate developer who helped launch Barack Obama on his political career, is whispering secrets to federal prosecutors about corruption in Illinois and the political fallout could be explosive.

Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich, whose administration faces multiple federal investigations over how it handed out jobs and money with advice from Rezko, is considered the most vulnerable.

Rezko also was friendly with Obama — offering him a job when he finished law school, funding his earliest political campaigns and purchasing a lot next to his house. But based on the known facts, charges so far and testimony at Rezko's trial, there's no indication there'll be an October surprise that could hurt the Democratic presidential nominee — even though Rezko says prosecutors are pressing him for dirt about Obama.

"I think this strikes fear into the Blagojevich administration and the Statehouse Democrats but not into the Obama campaign," says state Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Westmont, a John McCain delegate to the GOP convention but an old friend of Obama.

Rezko, 53, a real estate developer, was convicted in June of scheming to use his clout with the Blagojevich administration to squeeze $7 million in kickbacks out of a contractor and seven money management firms seeking to do business with the state.

Within two months, Rezko was seen in U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald's office, along with his attorneys.

There has been no official confirmation that Rezko is talking but his sentencing has been postponed indefinitely and both sides say they are going to "engage in discussions that could affect their sentencing postures."

"They never would have delayed the sentencing if he weren't talking — it's proof positive," said Jay Stewart, executive director of the Better Government Association of Chicago.

In addition, attorneys say federal investigators have been questioning Blagojevich contributions around the state using information that only Rezko could have supplied. Finally, courthouse personnel requesting anonymity because grand jury probes are secret said Rezko has been repeatedly brought from his cell to the U.S. attorney's office to talk to prosecutors.

Rezko could have a lot to tell. He has raised millions of dollars in campaign money for many Illinois politicians and according to federal prosecutors used his clout to control appointments to state boards.

Obama has sent to charity $159,000 that Rezko raised for his campaigns for the state legislature, the House and the Senate. Rezko raised nothing for Obama's White House run.

Obama's name came up in testimony at the trial four times, twice in connection with an obscure legislative memo, as a guest at a Rezko party and when defense attorney Joseph Duffy told jurors his client was a friend of the senator.

None of the witnesses accused the Democratic nominee for president of doing anything improper.

But questions concerning Obama's relationship with Rezko linger, particularly over Rezko's role in the purchase of the Obamas' home.

The two have known each other for years, starting when Rezko offered Obama a job after he graduated from Harvard Law School in 1991. Obama didn't take it, but a friendship developed.

The men talked politics frequently and occasionally dined together with their wives.

In 2005, the Obamas paid $1.65 million for their home near the University of Chicago. The sellers wanted a parcel they owned next door to sell on the same day, and Rezko's wife, Rita, was the buyer. At the request of the Obamas, Mrs. Rezko later sold them a 10-foot strip of land to enlarge their lot. They paid $104,500.

The deal took place while Rezko was under investigation and when details of the cozy relationship surfaced, Obama said it was a "bonehead" error to have asked for the additional land because it looked like he was getting a favor.

"I regret it," Obama said at the time. "I'm going to make sure that from this point on I don't even come close to the line."

McCain and vice running mate Sarah Palin have mentioned Rezko little if at all. But Republicans have aired a television ad focusing on Rezko. And McCain aides have repeatedly tweaked their opponent over the real estate deal in e-mails to reporters.

"We're delighted to have a debate on judgment with Barack Obama, who bought his million-dollar mansion in a shady deal with a convicted felon," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said in August.

Blagojevich, meanwhile, got a black eye from the trial.

One witness testified that Blagojevich talked about hiring him for a major state job while his $25,000 donation to the governor's campaign fund was lying on the table.

Two attorneys testified that Blagojevich hinted that they could get lucrative state contracts if they raised money — possibly for a future White House campaign.

Obama's name has not surfaced in accounts of the investigation since the trial. But Rezko himself raised it in a letter to the judge months ago.

"Your Honor, the prosecutors have been overzealous in pursuing a crime that never happened," he wrote. "They are pressuring me to tell them the wrong things that I supposedly know about Gov. Blagojevich and Sen. Barack Obama."
Click to expand...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011...g_the_beans;_ylt=ApgrJ3vW2qXC0O6L.th7T0zXn414



Rezko might be a bad man but I think the friendship he shares with Obama is real. if he were just using Obama to get him elected, then he would have spilled beans on Obama if he had any
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
Bill Burton laying the smackdown on Fox and they have no idea how to respond.

Acorn, acorn acorn acorn! Ayers Ayers Ayers. He even called them out.

HOLY FUCK THEY JUST CUT THE FEED FOR HIM!!!!!! Oh, my, GOD!

Someone, please tell me you recorded that.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
typhonsentra said:
Bill Burton laying the smackdown on Fox and they have no idea how to respond.

Acorn, acorn acorn acorn! Ayers Ayers Ayers. He even called them out.

HOLY FUCK THEY JUST CUT THE FEED FOR HIM!!!!!! Oh, my, GOD!

Someone, please tell me you recorded that.
Click to expand...

Thanks to a DVR, it was, by someone.
 
M

maximum360

Member
typhonsentra said:
"We'll try to get back to him after the break"
*After Break*
"We ran out of time. Sorry!"

:lol :lol :lol :lol

You can't make this shit up.
Click to expand...

That segment was pure gold. I'm amazed that the Obama camp still has people going on Fox. They pull this crap all the time and then give some lame excuse afterwards.
 
G

greepoman

Member
typhonsentra said:
Bill Burton laying the smackdown on Fox and they have no idea how to respond.

Acorn, acorn acorn acorn! Ayers Ayers Ayers. He even called them out.

HOLY FUCK THEY JUST CUT THE FEED FOR HIM!!!!!! Oh, my, GOD!

Someone, please tell me you recorded that.
Click to expand...

It would be funnier if there weren't real poll issues that they're basically ignoring. Electronic polls without backup paper ballots, understaffed polling places, etc etc. Things that have real potential to affect peoples' votes and not some bs Acorn crap where most phony apps get rejected and even if not have little chance of being used because you still need an ID to vote.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
PoliGAF still has some time.

We have the following threads coming up:

PoliGAF Election Night 2008 Thread of Depression and Holy Shit McCain actually won
PoliGAF 2009 Inaguration Thread of Fuck this country, I'm moving to Canada
PoliGAF 2009 Thread of Watching McCain Destroy this country (post relevant links inside)
PoliGAF 2010 Thread of What the fuck, Palin is president? I'm moving to MARS
PoliGAF 2010 Thread of Remember when we had Hopium? (Post fav. Obama moments)

etc etc
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
I think it might be interesting to have an official Poligaf Obama thread for after the nomination. These things have been so much fun, I rarely even visit the gaming side anymore. I didn't even know TGS was going on until morning the day before yesterday.
 
G

greepoman

Member
typhonsentra said:
I think it might be interesting to have an official Poligaf Obama thread for after the nomination. These things have been so much fun, I rarely even visit the gaming side anymore. I didn't even know TGS was going on until morning the day before yesterday.
Click to expand...

Meh after the election there just won't be enough to talk about. The 1 on 1 aspect with the daily back and forth is what makes it exciting. We're going to have to go back to relying on NPD to provide us the drama.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Amir0x said:
PoliGAF still has some time.

We have the following threads coming up:

PoliGAF Election Night 2008 Thread of Depression and Holy Shit McCain actually won
PoliGAF 2009 Inaguration Thread of Fuck this country, I'm moving to Canada
PoliGAF 2009 Thread of Watching McCain Destroy this country (post relevant links inside)
PoliGAF 2010 Thread of What the fuck, Palin is president? I'm moving to MARS
PoliGAF 2010 Thread of Remember when we had Hopium? (Post fav. Obama moments)

etc etc
Click to expand...
Dude. Don't give me nightmares. Not yet.
 
L

lopaz

Banned
That guy with the Atlas Shrugged avatar who doesn't understand satire is going to come in and start saying how outrageously biased and disrespectful Gaf is for saying Mccain is a pedo.
 
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