• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

Status
Not open for further replies.

Barrett2

Member
Cooter said:
So do you give Bush credit for the economy staying strong after 9/11? Do you give credit to Clinton for the tech boom of the 90's?

You keep believing that a President has major influence in the ups and downs of an economy. Good luck with that.

Obama will win and I expect 20 million jobs and a surplus in 4 years. That's fair isn't it?


Yes, Bush & Clinton deserve some credit for their policies which helped promote growth. The problem with Bush, however, is that he is a disingenuous piece of crap. Bush's tax cuts were meant to stimulate the economy, but he then later pushed for them to be permanent, despite the fact that the revenue projections he estimated were still based on their expiration. But that's a side issue.

My main contention is that Repubs are inherently disingenuous whenever they attempt to lay blame / praise on a President's impact on the economy. The President (i) proposes a Fed budget, (ii) signs into law the eventually negotiated Fed budget, (iii) appoints a Fed chairman who implements Federal monetary policy, (iv) appoints regulatory commissioners whom decide the level and nature of national business and trade regulation, etc...

The reality is that the President DOES have a lot to do with the economy. People do tend to exaggerate it, but not any more I would argue than those who argue the President doesn't have anything to do with the economy. The only people who seriously argue the Prez has no impact are Econ wankers who don't follow politics or government enough to know what they are talking about.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
JayDubya said:
Well, I trust you guys to let me know Batman's political affiliation.


Actually I am guessing he's a lib. He has a compound and benefits from Lasseiz Faire. And the SWEAR TO ME line smacks of self reliance, IMO.
 

besada

Banned
Cooter said:
I'm just trying to spare many here from false hope. Be excited that Obama will improve our standing in the world or focus on alternative energy but don't expect him to fix this mess of an economy.

He can certainly focus on tightening the loose regulation that's brought us to this ugly point. He can't magically make the economy better, but he can tug the ship of state in the right direction for the first time in eight years.

I agree that most people think the President has more power over the economy than he really does, but people who think the President has no power over the economy are just as wrong.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Cooter said:
I understand but Barack is proposing over 1 trillion in new spending. How is this gonna work speculawyer? Especially with control of both houses.

To be fair, you're supposed to spend during downturns. You shrink during booms.
 

Macam

Banned
This goes for anyone here: If you're going to talk about the economy, you should probably be a bit more specific rather than simply referring to it as some giant, singular entity. We can talk about debts, taxes, GDP growth, unemployment rates, and so on, but what you expect to improve under any candidate depends on what aspect you're looking at.

All the same, while I don't often agree with Cooter, I will say that his constant attempts to inject some level of realism in expectations is wisely applicable for a large number of people in here, particularly those who aren't paying attention to down ticket races.
 

besada

Banned
OuterWorldVoice said:
Actually I am guessing he's a lib. He has a compound and benefits from Lasseiz Faire. And the SWEAR TO ME line smacks of self reliance, IMO.

Batman can't be a lib. Lib's don't believe in defending the weak.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
ronito said:
:lol You can't be talking about the tech bubble. I know you're smarter than that.


Yeah, I went there. What is it? Did Clinton give us economic prosperity? Was it the tech boom? Maybe it was Reagan's policies of the 80's?

You tell me?
 
Cooter said:
Partly true but the fact that he isn't blood thirsty doesn't make him not a realist. Let's turn this into a Batman discussion. I'm sure no one would object to that. :lol

Haha well the interesting thing is a discussion about Batman is still relevant here. Batman believes in fairness, balance, and honor. Those have been seriously lacking in both the Bush admin and McCain camp. They're only "unrealistic" because of how shitty things have been and become. Batman follows his own rules, too. Same can't be said of Repubs lately. On top of that look at who Batman is: a wealthy trust-fund elite who rejects his socioeconomic standing to help those in need. So in a sense, Batman is Democrat through and through.
 

AniHawk

Member
GhaleonEB said:

*slow nod*

RubxQub said:
The look Egon gives after he finishes saying his part shows he knows what's up.

Okay, that's what I thought. Hadn't seen it in a while though, and just reading text made me think otherwise.

I need to buy this on DVD. I haven't seen it in forever.
 

JayDubya

Banned
OuterWorldVoice said:
Actually I am guessing he's a lib. He has a compound and benefits from Lasseiz Faire. And the SWEAR TO ME line smacks of self reliance, IMO.

He also believes that government is corrupt and incompetent, but then again, he lives in Gotham City, where that's not really a matter of opinion. :lol

Meanwhile, Superman's always been a total idealist that writes for "Metropolis's" "Daily Planet," so I don't even really think I have to work too hard to take a guess at that one.
 
Cooter said:
Seemed to have worked well in the 90's.
How old are you? Pretty young, I assume. Go learn some history. Learn about how Reagan ran massive deficits. Learn how despite his 'Read my lips, no new taxes.' George Bush did the right thing and raised some taxes to stem the red ink. Learn how Clinton raised taxes in 1993 despite EVERY REPUBLICAN SAYING IT WOULD CAUSE A RECESSION. Learn how the period from 1993 to 2000 brought the longest sustained expansion of our economy ever. Learn how there was a bit of a bubble pop at 2000 but that was mainly due to 'excessive exhuberence' of the stock market (as Greenspan put it) but that is the private market's fault, not Government's fault. etc.

Now I don't think raising taxes will cause a great economic expansion . . . but I think that not running massive deficits will at least prevent disasters such as the massive devaluation of the dollar we have seen in recent years.

It is more about not doing stupid things that will hurt the economy than doing things that will magically help it. The economy needs to work on its own . . . but having pointless wars, massive deficits, and completely deregulated markets that invite fraud is not good for the economy.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
HylianTom said:
That look is priceless.. :lol
Egonnnnnn.png
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
speculawyer said:
How old are you? Pretty young, I assume. Go learn some history. Learn about how Reagan ran massive deficits. Learn how despite his 'Read my lips, no new taxes.' George Bush did the right thing and raised some taxes to stem the red ink. Learn how Clinton raised taxes in 1993 despite EVERY REPUBLICAN SAYING IT WOULD CAUSE A RECESSION. Learn how the period from 1993 to 2000 brought the longest sustained expansion of our economy ever. Learn how there was a bit of a bubble pop at 2000 but that was mainly due to 'excessive exhuberence' of the stock market (as Greenspan put it) but that is the private market's fault, not Government's fault. etc.

Now I don't think raising taxes will cause a great economic expansion . . . but I think that not running massive deficits will at least prevent disasters such as the massive devaluation of the dollar we have seen in recent years.

It is more about not doing stupid things that will hurt the economy than doing things that will magically help it. The economy needs to work on its own . . . but having pointless wars, massive deficits, and completely deregulated markets that invite fraud is not good for the economy.

Just turned 29 last month. I know everything you mentioned but thanks for the recap. I was trying to stimulate discussion.

I don't credit Reagan for the strong economy in the 80's, Clinton in the 90's, or Bush in this decade.
 

ronito

Member
Cooter said:
Yeah, I went there. What is it? Did Clinton give us economic prosperity? Was it the tech boom? Maybe it was Reagan's policies of the 80's?

You tell me?
Neither. The tech boom was a bunch of VCs that suddenly thought that the internet didn't have to play the rule of normal business and they sank most of the money into silly and stupid projects before they realized, "Hey, wait a minute, the same rules apply here than anywhere else." and then they pulled their money and the bubble burst. The average worker at the end of the bubble was still an average worker (though many were suddenly unemployed as their jobs were either outsourced or replaced by a computer). The filthy rich were still filthy. Urination has NOTHING to do with the bubble other than the fact that most VCs kept even more of the money they made and workers still got pissed on, neither did Clintons economic policy. It was the opening of a new, flexible medium.

Now if you did want to give credit to someone then I guess Clinton deserves some for establishing the infrastructure to support the new medium.
 
Stoney Mason said:
Because he realizes like most sane people there is still a difference between two options rather than pretending they are both the same ;)

Well if the other option is better than your option it's a good strategy to try and get them back on level playing field. Or if anything goes in the tank while your guy is in office, best to say "lol, they cannot effect the economy". We shall see.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Ok, many people have heard "The Giant Pool of Money", but just found This American Life did a fantastic episode this weekend with a story on total inaction of the SEC chairman as the second act: "Enforcers". Act 1, by the way, is about the mother of all 419 bait schemes. Listen to it, now!

Also listen to today's Fresh Air when it gets put up, all about the various aspects of the current economic crisis and how we got here, rather than on just the mortgage aspect.
 
saelz8 said:
Did Kerry ever pass Bush before the debates?

I don't remember (I doubt it) but it's kinda pointless anyway. The story going into the debates unless something unusual happens really soon is that we have essentially a tie race. Which puts even more pressure and spotlight on the debates.
 
Shiggie said:
So its McCain that dropped?
Seems like the lying thing caught up with him.


As a general rule whenever the news events dominate the news cycle Obama does well. When it's about mudslinging and BS Mccain tends to do well. I think Mccain hasn't been able to effectively bring it down into the mud recently. The whole lipstick on a pig thing backfired.
 

Tamanon

Banned
I'm also thinking we can't really attribute gallup movement to any singular event:p Unless we're talking about someone weighing the scales of Obama and Not Obama and adding to that weight.
 

besada

Banned
I'm sort of amazed that in the wake of a deregulation bail out we're not hearing more about McCain's role in the Keating 5 and the following Savings and Loan scandal. It's the same stupid policy decisions, over and over again with these guys.
 
besada said:
I'm sort of amazed that in the wake of a deregulation bail out we're not hearing more about McCain's role in the Keating 5 and the following Savings and Loan scandal. It's the same stupid policy decisions, over and over again with these guys.
Liberal pundits have mentioned it. I think the O campaign is afraid, and rightly so.
 

Tamanon

Banned
besada said:
I'm sort of amazed that in the wake of a deregulation bail out we're not hearing more about McCain's role in the Keating 5 and the following Savings and Loan scandal. It's the same stupid policy decisions, over and over again with these guys.

Obama brought up that this was the same thing that happened in S&L, I think we're inching towards more people actually talking about WHY the financial crisis is happening instead of right now where they're talking about WHAT is happening.
 
Hitokage said:
Ok, many people have heard "The Giant Pool of Money", but just found This American Life did a fantastic episode this weekend with a story on total inaction of the SEC chairman as the second act: "Enforcers". Act 1, by the way, is about the mother of all 419 bait schemes. Listen to it, now!

Also listen to today's Fresh Air when it gets put up, all about the various aspects of the current economic crisis and how we got here, rather than on just the mortgage aspect.
Also check out their Planet Money podcast; "The Economy, Explained"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom