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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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Jak140

Member
Branduil said:
No but we do need less people who don't want their children.

And forcing people who don't want children to have them will help this how?

I repeat, the US has the highest poverty rate among minors in the industrialized world.

Also, our public education system is underperforming and underfunded, our prison system is overflowing, and our health care system is unable to counter our obscene infant mortality rate. Yes, lets exacerbate the problem by introducing hundreds of thousands of children who will be unwanted and uncared for into the world.
 
GhaleonEB said:
If Obama blows it, he has 40 days and two debates to recover. If he does well - even relative to expectations - McCain will struggle to come back. Plus, it's on a Friday night which historically have reduced viewership. Though I think this year will be an exception.

And domestic policy - the economy - is one week before the election. Could be a big boost to Obama.

I have a feeling Obama will be hammering the economy no matter what. He'll constantly bring up Iraq's oil surplus as well as the amount we spend there each week. If not...he's retarded
 

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
GhaleonEB said:
If Obama blows it, he has 40 days and two debates to recover. If he does well - even relative to expectations - McCain will struggle to come back. Plus, it's on a Friday night which historically have reduced viewership. Though I think this year will be an exception.

And domestic policy - the economy - is one week before the election. Could be a big boost to Obama.

The first debate is usually the most watched.
 

Dr_Cogent

Banned
speculawyer said:
Cute anecdotal story . . . . now how about reality?

What should we do about the thousands of older or non-preferred race kids waiting to be adopted?

Now how about try arguing against the point I made instead of trying to twist it into something else. Do you honestly think that some people don't use abortion as a form of birth control? Are you honestly going to argue that point? That was what was put forth, and I'm saying it's bullshit. Can you argue the point that was made instead of trying to change the subject? I don't think you can. Please, try.
 

Cloudy

Banned
capslock said:
I really really wish the Obama hadn't fought for the first debate to be about foreign policy. If they had been discussing economics on Friday this would have been a chance to deliver a final knock-out blow to McCain.

They can always use bring it up again then. For now, this is shapes the media narrative and keep McLiar playing defense..
 
Why does this thread always cycle to this nonsense every couple of pages? We should just sticky an abortion debate thread.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!
 

Ether_Snake

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Amir0x said:
except it wouldn't be the final knock-out blow, because the foreign policy debate would still come up and only this time it would be the final thing on voter's minds about these two candidates :p

Yes, the economic one must be the last.
 

agrajag

Banned
So what if people use abortion as a form of birth control? It doesn't matter to what end they are using abortion. That's a red herring.

The crux of the issue, is abortion murder or not? The woman's motive shouldn't even be part of the equation.
 

DaMan121

Member
I'm not even professing that they should outlaw abortion. My point still stands, people use it as a form of birth control. Arguing the point otherwise is naive and foolish. You can't honestly tell me that people don't use it because they simply don't want to have a kid. That was the argument, and I am saying that argument is patently false. Are you denying it?

"Hey don't bother putting that condom on because if I get pregnant I will just get an abortion" - what do you think the percentage of these kind of people are?
 
Dr_Cogent said:
So giving the child up for adoption is not an option. OK.
Nice sticking words in my mouth. I said no such thing.


Dr_Cogent said:
My point still stands, people use it as a form of birth control. Arguing the point otherwise is naive and foolish.

THAT is naive and foolish. Yeah . . . women opt for an expensive invasive surgical procedure instead of just taking a pill. Does that make any sense what so ever?

Dr_Cogent said:
You can't honestly tell me that some people don't use it because they simply don't want to have a kid. That was the argument, and I am saying that argument is patently false. Are you denying it?
I'm not arguing that. I'm just pointing out that banning abortion is bad policy.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Branduil said:
A lot of people aren't serious about it... at least not serious enough to break the law.

I didn't say it would solve everything... because unlike those on the far left, I don't think government can solve everything. Lots of work would have to be done by private organizations and individuals.

The bottom line is, I don't believe the government should do things merely out of practicality. It should do what is right first, practical second.

This is your problem. You think that your opinion is right and just and that anyone else is wrong. They are many different views on this subject and many people disagree that abortions in the first trimester should be considered murder. How does the government decide what is "right" and what is not when there are so many different opinions on the subject?
 

Ether_Snake

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Democrats Dropping Offshore Drilling Ban, Obey Says

A 26-year ban on offshore oil drilling will be dropped as part of a year-end spending bill, said House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey.

Eliminating the ban will allow the measure, which funds government operations through March 6, to get through Congress and be signed into law by President George W. Bush, Obey said.

``At least temporarily, the moratorium is lifted,'' Obey told reporters. ``This next election will decide what our drilling policy is going to be.''

[...]

The plan outlined by Obey would give Republicans less than 24 hours to scrutinize legislation spending more than $600 billion on the defense, homeland security and veterans' affairs agencies including thousands of pet projects known as earmarks.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0MEGVKoMLgc&refer=home
 

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I have a feeling Obama will be hammering the economy no matter what. He'll constantly bring up Iraq's oil surplus as well as the amount we spend there each week. If not...he's retarded
Agree, domestic and foreign policy are connected. Just talk about all the things we could have done with the money spent in Iraq.
Ether_Snake said:
Most appropriate last name ever.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Dr_Cogent said:
Now you've lost me. It's the Republicans fault that there is such a high rate of abortions. WTF? Care to elaborate?

When one of your main agendas over the past few decades has been to prevent people from learning how to properly use contraceptives because of the believe that contraceptives encourage sexual activity out of wedlock, then those people who were never properly taught about the use of contraceptives end up fucking each other anyway without said contraceptives, end up having an unwanted pregnancy, which in the end leads to an abortion. So yes, I can properly blame those politicians for a high abortion rate.

If you don't want a kid and want to avoid an abortion, what do you do? YOU USE A CONTRACEPTIVE. The republican party has been running on an anti-contraceptive agenda for years. CONNECT THE DOTS.
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Is it true that Palin asked for terms that Biden & her not directly talk to each during the debates? A friend told me about this..
 
agrajag said:
Oddly enough, almost every libertarian I've ever talked to felt strongly against abortion. Very odd.
Because they are more likely GOPers that finally got too embarrassed to remain GOPers. They are fucking up Libertarian policy with their social conservative bullshit. For example, how did the author of DOMA become the Libertarian candidate? That's fucked up.
 

Hootie

Member
Argh...when is 538 going to update? Usually it would be around 5-7pm EST but that's obviously out of the question at this point.
 

JayDubya

Banned
Freedom = $1.05 said:
Libertarians against abortion rights? Does not compute.

Human rights for human beings computes just fine.

Zefah said:
I think that abortions are quite a bit different than other things that are currently illegal. If you get to the point where you decide you cannot birth the child for whatever reason, then I doubt the fact that it is illegal will stop many people. It is a huge decision to make for the mother and a very difficult one at that. It's a totally different ballgame than other illegal activities.

Not really. If you get to the point where you want someone dead and you're willing to pay money to someone else to kill the first someone, you're probably right that the legality or illegality won't sway you too much. The illegality aspect would however dissuade the action some of the time, and at the very least allow for justice to take place.

Well you are also the guy who thinks that the government of a country should not provide its citizens with healthcare and that healthcare is just like any other business where if you don't have the cash to pay up then you shouldn't get the service. Pretty much you think that poor people deserve to die if they can't afford healthcare. I am not surprised that you don't care about woman who decides to get an abortion.

Of course a government shouldn't provide "free healthcare" via wealth redistribution, it's a service just like any other and it should be provided to those that can afford it or on a privately organized charitable basis. Enough with this tangent.

Consumption of alcohol and marijuana is, generally, a victimless crime, but both are often tied to or are the root of crimes that are not victimless. There is no drunk driving without alcohol, for example. I'm sure alcohol-influenced crimes were one of the reasons that the country attempted prohibition so long ago.

Drunk driving is a valid crime. "I got drunk and then I..." is not an excuse from criminal or civil liability for your actions. The act of drinking is itself victimless.

The act of killing a living human being is not.

So what are some other alternatives that you think are a good idea? I'm not failing to realize anything, but I do think that early sex education, like any kind of education, can help immensely.

Um, use school to teach skills that are useful for the future workplace, not how to fuck? Parental responsibility, not governmental responsibility?
 

HylianTom

Banned
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Say, does anyone have a link to those articles about the demographic changes that will happen in the US over the next 50 years and how they will impact US politics?

I remember some stuff about whites losing their majority (while still being the largest demographic group) and a Liberalism-dominated political climate.

No article, but some interesting stats:
87% of the voting demographic was white in 1992.
83% of the voting demographic was white in 1996.
81% of the voting demographic was white in 2000.
77% of the voting demographic was white in 2004.

Stats link: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/

At this rate.. :D
 

Ike

PissBOX, PeeS2, or Toiletcube
Just got this email from Obama:

Isaac --

The era of greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street and in Washington has created a financial crisis as profound as any we have faced since the Great Depression.

Congress and the President are debating a bailout of our financial institutions with a price tag of $700 billion or more in taxpayer dollars. We cannot underestimate our responsibility in taking such an enormous step.

Whatever shape our recovery plan takes, it must be guided by core principles of fairness, balance, and responsibility to one another.

Please sign on to show your support for an economic recovery plan based on the following:

• No Golden Parachutes -- Taxpayer dollars should not be used to reward the irresponsible Wall Street executives who helmed this disaster.

• Main Street, Not Just Wall Street -- Any bailout plan must include a payback strategy for taxpayers who are footing the bill and aid to innocent homeowners who are facing foreclosure.

• Bipartisan Oversight -- The staggering amount of taxpayer money involved demands a bipartisan board to ensure accountability and oversight.
Show your support and encourage your friends and family to join you:

http://my.barackobama.com/ourplan

The failed economic policies and the same corrupt culture that led us into this mess will not help get us out of it. We need to get to work immediately on reforming the broken government -- and the broken politics -- that allowed this crisis to happen in the first place.

And we have to understand that a recovery package is just the beginning. We have a plan that will guarantee our long-term prosperity -- including tax cuts for 95 percent of families, an economic stimulus package that creates millions of new jobs and leads us towards energy independence, and health care that is affordable to every American.

It won't be easy. The kind of change we're looking for never is.

But if we work together and stand by these principles, we can get through this crisis and emerge a stronger nation.

Thank you,

Barack
 
Zefah said:
How does the government decide what is "right" and what is not when there are so many different opinions on the subject?
the-holy-bible-the-game.jpg


I'm surprised you even had to ask.
 

agrajag

Banned
Zefah said:
This is your problem. You think that your opinion is right and just and that anyone else is wrong. They are many different views on this subject and many people disagree that abortions in the first trimester should be considered murder. How does the government decide what is "right" and what is not when there are so many different opinions on the subject?

But this is teh Nation of God

edit: fucking beaten
 

Dr_Cogent

Banned
speculawyer said:
Nice sticking words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

It's never presented as an option ever by liberals. I've yet to see a liberal present it as a viable alternative to abortion. You sure did not. There isn't any discussion about lower the amount of abortions in this country. It's always simply about the rights of women. You would think that most people would abhor the idea, but for most - they are totally cool with it. Maybe they should legalize post birth abortion and see how people like that.

THAT is naive and foolish. Yeah . . . women opt for an expensive invasive surgical procedure instead of just taking a pill. Does that make any sense what so ever?

Wait wait wait. You are now trying to argue the point that you said you were not? If you have an abortion to prevent having a birth, that is a form of birth control. Stupid? Yes. Valid as a form of a way of "controlling a birth"? Absolutely. Remember, words mean things. I would hope to never get you as a lawyer.

I'm not arguing that. I'm just pointing out that banning abortion is bad policy.

Good for you. My point still stands. Women do use it as an option to prevent from having a child.

reilo said:
When one of your main agendas over the past few decades has been to prevent people from learning how to properly use contraceptives because of the believe that contraceptives encourage sexual activity out of wedlock, then those people who were never properly taught about the use of contraceptives end up fucking each other anyway without said contraceptives, end up having an unwanted pregnancy, which in the end leads to an abortion. So yes, I can properly blame those politicians for a high abortion rate.

If you don't want a kid and want to avoid an abortion, what do you do? YOU USE A CONTRACEPTIVE. The republican party has been running on an anti-contraceptive agenda for years. CONNECT THE DOTS.

I figured this would be your argument, but is there any actual statistical data to prove your case? It's simply your theory. I was in high school many years ago. They taught us how and why to use them in school. I would be highly surprised if kids in this day and age have been prevented from learning how to use a condom. Kids aren't that stupid.

Blaming Republicans for a high abortion is a tenuous argument at best.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
Now you've lost me. It's the Republicans fault that there is such a high rate of abortions. WTF? Care to elaborate?
It's an argument with some merit. Ask women why they have abortions and one of the biggest reasons is they feel they can't afford to have a baby. By driving the economy into the ground and cutting social programs, the GOP drive women opt for abortion.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
reilo said:
When one of your main agendas over the past few decades has been to prevent people from learning how to properly use contraceptives because of the believe that contraceptives encourage sexual activity out of wedlock, then those people who were never properly taught about the use of contraceptives end up fucking each other anyway without said contraceptives, end up having an unwanted pregnancy, which in the end leads to an abortion. So yes, I can properly blame those politicians for a high abortion rate.

If you don't want a kid and want to avoid an abortion, what do you do? YOU USE A CONTRACEPTIVE. The republican party has been running on an anti-contraceptive agenda for years. CONNECT THE DOTS.

Sadly, I'll have to quote this, because it's unlikely that Dr_Cogent will respond to this. You know how it works... salient points, met with deafening silence.
 
reilo said:
When one of your main agendas over the past few decades has been to prevent people from learning how to properly use contraceptives because of the believe that contraceptives encourage sexual activity out of wedlock, then those people who were never properly taught about the use of contraceptives end up fucking each other anyway without said contraceptives, end up having an unwanted pregnancy, which in the end leads to an abortion. So yes, I can properly blame those politicians for a high abortion rate.

If you don't want a kid and want to avoid an abortion, what do you do? YOU USE A CONTRACEPTIVE. The republican party has been running on an anti-contraceptive agenda for years. CONNECT THE DOTS.

I mean, the funny thing is that even though the economy is in ridiculously dire straights and on the borderline of complete failure and we're engaged in two wars around the world with no clear end to either war, a woman's choice and sex-ed is a more important issue to their quality of life. Complete WTF AM TOTAL.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Dr_Cogent said:
It's never presented as an option ever by liberals. I've yet to see a liberal present it as a viable alternative to abortion. You sure did not. There isn't any discussion about lower the amount of abortions in this country. It's always simply about the rights of women. You would think that most people would abhor the idea, but for most - they are totally cool with it. Maybe they should legalize post birth abortion and see how people like that.



Wait wait wait. You are now trying to argue the point that you said you were not? If you have an abortion to prevent having a birth, that is a form of birth control. Stupid? Yes. Valid as a form of a way of "controlling a birth"? Absolutely. Remember, words mean things. I would hope to never get you as a lawyer.



Good for you. My point still stands. Women do use it as an option to prevent from having a child.

Do you agree with the banning of vasectomies too?
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Ike said:
Just got this email from Obama:

[...]

And we have to understand that a recovery package is just the beginning. We have a plan that will guarantee our long-term prosperity -- including tax cuts for 95 percent of families, an economic stimulus package that creates millions of new jobs and leads us towards energy independence, and health care that is affordable to every American.

Sadly, with the deficit the US will have, I doubt this one point will be possible. I wish it was true, I'm all for energy independence and especially opening up renewable energy as a new economic sector for the US (and hence also Canada). But the deficit will force the next four years to be four years of managing a deficit, and nothing more.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
2884114816_75858dcd38_o.png


Write-up coming, but this is probably on the strength of the Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan and Colorado polls today. (McCain was at 226 yesterday.)
 

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
Can we stop with the abortion debate now please? This thread is about the 2008 Presidential campaign, not the Culture Wars.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I added bleach to some human stem cells this summer that were a part of a failed experiment. Did I perform a partial abortion and will I go to halfway house in Hell for it?
 
JayDubya said:
Human rights for human beings computes just fine.

But it's in direct violation of one's right to their body. Plus we aren't talking about a human being; it's more along the lines of a group of cells and proteins.

Oh well. Let's hoping this derailment ends soon.
 
GhaleonEB said:
2884114816_75858dcd38_o.png


Write-up coming, but this is probably on the strength of the Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan and Colorado polls today. (McCain was at 226 yesterday.)
:D Does anyone here think Obama has a real chance of turning NC blue?
 

so_awes

Banned
capslock said:
Can we stop with the abortion debate now please? This thread is about the 2008 Presidential campaign, not the Culture Wars.
seriously. why don't you guys go make a Pro-antichoice vs. Coat hanger thread?! >:[
 

HylianTom

Banned
JayDubya said:
Sure she does. She doesn't own the other body, though. Slavery was outlawed a while ago.

For the umpteenth time: it's not legally another person.

If you want it to be so in any way that's legally meaningful, good luck amending the Constitution. Or, perhaps you can get some of your judges to legislate it from the bench.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
I added bleach to some human stem cells this summer that were a part of a failed experiment. Did I perform a partial abortion and will I go to halfway house in Hell for it?

Jay's personally going to come arrest you when Ron Paul is elected and the Libertarian Age begins.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
It's never presented as an option ever by liberals. I've yet to see a liberal present it as a viable alternative to abortion. You sure did not.
I'm sorry . . . I assumed you knew what adoption was. I guess I was wrong.

Dr_Cogent said:
There isn't any discussion about lower the amount of abortions in this country. It's always simply about the rights of women. You would think that most people would abhor the idea, but for most - they are totally cool with it.

Gee . . . you must have missed the 90s when the Clintons kept talked about keeping abortion "Safe, legal, and rare."

Wait wait wait. You are now trying to argue the point that you said you were not? If you have an abortion to prevent having a birth, that is a form of birth control. Stupid? Yes. Valid as a form of a way of "controlling a birth"? Absolutely. Remember, words mean things. I would hope to never get you as a lawyer.
Is that argument stupid? Yes. Very. All words have multiple meanings and we determine their meanings using context. When one uses the phrase 'birth control' it is generally understood to mean a regularly used system to prevent pregnancy. Hence people think condoms, the pill, diaphrams, etc. Abortion is not regularly used system as such since it is expensive, invasive, involves risk, etc. It is not used as 'birth control'.

You create this stupid pointless arguments over nothing because you think like a robot.

Dr_Cogent said:
Good for you. My point still stands. Women do use it as an option to prevent from having a child.
Well, duh.
 
HylianTom said:
No article, but some interesting stats:
87% of the voting demographic was white in 1992.
83% of the voting demographic was white in 1996.
81% of the voting demographic was white in 2000.
77% of the voting demographic was white in 2004.

Stats link: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/

At this rate.. :D
Thanks for that. I remember it being projected to be something like 49% in the year 2050, but for the life of me I can't find the source.
 
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