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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
- Thread starter Amir0x
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I think that may be true on some tactical areas, but not at the macro level right now. Look at what happened to McCain's campaign over the past three weeks. Ever since he got the nomination, he's been talking about experience. Obama is "not ready", McCain has the experience to lead, etc. He ran on that most of this year.DarkMage619 said:
Now he's dropped that entirely and is trying to grapple the "change" mantra from Obama. McCain realized being the experience candidate in a change election is not going to work (just ask Hillary). In other words, McCain just retooled the message behind his entire campaign in response to Obama. He's re-branded as "John McCain: Maverick" as if he's this agent of change all of a sudden. What Obama just did is call him out on that; responding to McCain shifting his position in response to Obama (does that make sense?).
I kind of think McCain just fell into a trap, actually. Agent of change? Really? With that record? He's on tape boasting of being in 90% lockstep with Bush. Obama just called him a liar, plain and simple. I expect McCain to go nuclear in response, but it will be McCain defending his new position as the change candidate - not Obama.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Pakkidis said:
Bush seemed to get better as they went on.
I remember that he was completely fucking lost in the first debate, but got it together for the second one.
typhonsentra
Banned
It's sad that he has to go negative but it's the new reality. The woman is a media sensation like nothing we've seen before.
CharlieDigital said:
Thats also my memory of the debates. Bush got KILLED in the first debate, but actually did quite well in the second and third debates, at least by his standards. If anything, Bush's terrible performance in the 1st lowered expectations so much that the media praised his 2nd and 3rd debate performance.
soul creator
Member
:lol at this Minnesota ad targeting Norm Coleman (Al Franken's running against him)
Fuck the "independents". You're not "independent" just because you're a fence sitter this late in the game. There's nothing independent-minded about waiting for the right commercial or the right soundbite or talking point to make your decision. That doesn't make you an independent thinker, it makes you a moron.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
If they manage to show McCain or Palin as lying hypocrites instead of uninformed doofusses, they could change the game.Pakkidis said:
Of course I can't picture Obama dialecticaly beating the shit out of McCain, and Biden will have to show some serious restrain with Palin. So yeah =/
:lol MSNBC
Anyone watching Hardball (or watched it at 5)?
At one point they start calling Palin a "porker" (talking about pork barrel spending) and they didn't even seem to realize it.
If you haven't made up your mind at this point, then you haven't been paying enough attention.
Anyone watching Hardball (or watched it at 5)?
At one point they start calling Palin a "porker" (talking about pork barrel spending) and they didn't even seem to realize it.
demon said:
If you haven't made up your mind at this point, then you haven't been paying enough attention.
speculawyer
Member
Palin isn't evil either . . . she's just ignorant, superstitious, and dogmatic. And those traits make for really bad leadership and policy. (As the last 8 years should have taught most people by now.)AniHawk said:
demon said:
Exactly. Undecided voter is just code for dumbass. It drives me fucking insane on the news when they interview "undecided voters" after a debate or convention. Listening to the things that pushes these people to actually vote for one candidate or the other is so depressing, these people are swayed by the most arbitrary nonsense. As a result, if I were Obama I would go NEGATIVE, its the only thing these morons will respond to.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
If I were Obama and lost to a Republican like McCain, I wouldn't bother running again. After 8 years of BushCo. and a Republican presidential candidate who doesn't even know how the economy works, you might as well just say "fuck it" for good. :lol
demon said:
Don't insult morons at least they have the balls to make the choice to fuck up their lives, these indecisive cowards are among some of the most despisable living being possible. It's an insult to say they are independent because the word at a basic level describes self reliance of some degree. These people rely on others to make a decision they clearly can't make for themselves.
I'm registered independent and have made up my mind for quite some time.
Don't know if this had been posted but Rasmussen released some state polling today:
Virginia: 49 Mccain 47 Obama
Colorado: 49 Obama 46 Mccain
Florida: 48 to 48
Ohio: 51 McCain 44 Obama
Pennsylvania: 47 Obama 45 McCain
The problem though is this was done sunday after the republican convention with a plus or minus 4.5% and it was done in partnership with fox news.
Virginia: 49 Mccain 47 Obama
Colorado: 49 Obama 46 Mccain
Florida: 48 to 48
Ohio: 51 McCain 44 Obama
Pennsylvania: 47 Obama 45 McCain
The problem though is this was done sunday after the republican convention with a plus or minus 4.5% and it was done in partnership with fox news.
Obama has said that if he loses, he won't run again.Jason's Ultimatum said:
Lots of new state polling today. Fivethirtyeight put together a nice table showing the change from the same pollster's last check on the state and a big analysis of the movement. Nothing too dramatic:
Code:
State/Pollster WAS NOW SWING
OH Rasmussen McCain +5 McCain +7 McCain +2
MI PPP Obama +3 Obama +1 McCain +2
PA Rasmussen Obama +3 Obama +2 McCain +1
VA Rasmussen McCain +1 McCain +2 McCain +1
VA SurveyUSA McCain +1 McCain +2 McCain +1
FL Rasmussen McCain +2 TIE Obama +2
CO Rasmussen McCain +1 Obama +3 Obama +4
====================================================
AVERAGE McCain +0.6 McCain +0.7 McCain +0.1Obama up in both Colorado and Florida is significant.
Edit: beat.
somedevil said:
speculawyer
Member
Yes it is response, but it is a response that goes on the offense. Seriously, outright calling them liars is a big deal. For some unknown reason, the Kerry campaign never had the balls to say it. I'm happy to see it brought up.DarkMage619 said:
And you have to respond . . . Kerry got slammed for not responding and just ignoring attacks. You can't do that . . . you need to hit back hard and not let the bullshit stand.
After all the abuse you still do this? :lolDarkMage619 said:
demon said:
Pretty much. We've had more than enough time to see who these candidates (Obama/McCain) are. There's something fucking wrong with you if you're still undecided- that, or you just don't give a shit, or you're immature, in the sense that you want one of the candidates to adopt your particular view on a particular issue.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Pretty much. I mean, there's plenty of non-partisan fact-checking sites out there that cover the really truly important thing in this (or any) election that is being deceptively glossed over by the Republican marketing and propaganda: the issues. If you haven't decided based on that, all you're doing is saying that personality means more than issues.demon said:
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
somedevil said:
What the fuck at Pennsylvania? I'd figure with Biden on the ticket, the state would be a lock in? Hopefully this is just a post convention bump.
Fragamemnon
Member
soul creator said:
that's golden.
Chuck Schunmer's ad goons are some of the best in the business. He's single-handledly propped up Kay Hagan here in NC with his ads and helped keep her campaign afloat despite being a very unremarkable candidate.
PhoenixDark
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Nicee swing in Colorado, and interesting movement in Florida. I wonder how much the Palin choice (if at all) influenced that.
Frank the Great
Banned
nvm
DarkMage619
$MSFT
gkrykewy said:
There is video of McCain confusing Suni and Shia, there is tape of him saying that the war would be over very quickly, There is video of him saying that anyone could just stroll through Bagdad when he went there under HEAVY armed guard, there is video of him saying that there is an Iraq-Pakistan border, getting troop levels wrong, there are his votes for the torture he was once against, the tax cuts he once opposed, and so on and so on. The bottom line is that he isn't on the defensive about ANY of that stuff and is basically allowed to say whatever the hell he wants and then and ONLY then will Obama slighty push back. It makes no sense when McCain is in the incumbant party to not be defending the incumbants' record. But the media is focused on OBAMA's record. McCain has made the election about Obama and Obama is willing to let that go.
In regards to the Palin pick what is the media narrative? That it was a desperate pick or it was a mavrick(sic) pick? McCain sets the tone of the debate; Obama only responds to it, SOMETIMES. It makes no sense and with that sort of defensive posture OBAMA WILL LOSE.
The Dark One
Fragamemnon
Member
GhaleonEB said:
I don't think McCain had much of a choice here, much like in the end he didn't have much of a choice to not go with Sarah Palin as his VP. Expereience versus change got Hillary beat this year, and she was 10x the politican that McCain is.
It is a trap because they can get hit with brutal facts, which is why they are playing the refs so hard and why they are blantantly lying, hoping that they can innoculate themselves to that hard attacks by turning the thing into he said/she said scenario and hoping the Obama campaign doesn't press the advantage.
With this sort of ad, though, it shows that the Obama campaign is willing to aggressively hit them. If they keep up this kind of pressure, I don't see how McCain does anything except double down on the nastiest character attacks that they can fling at him.
worldrunover
Member
DarkMage619 said:
Here is a "90%" sport from the DNC:
http://justmoreofthesame.com/video/10/90-percent-bush
And here is a (IMO) better one with McCain and Bush parroting each other:
http://justmoreofthesame.com/blog/30/more-of-the-same-on-the-economy
I want to see more polling there before I worry about it. Rasmussen had Obama up only three points in August, when everyone else has a wider spread. Dems have gained 500k voters, for ~1m more registered Democrats than Republicans, as well.Jason's Ultimatum said:
Obama's chief strategist says if they take Colorado, McCain has a 5% chance at winning the presidency.Zeliard said:
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Honestly, A while back I decided that this election was over and Obama had won. And I still believe that.
In my opinion, the only thing Obama had to prove was:
1. A Black man could be president
and
2. Obama wasn't like George Bush.
Watching the polls and the overall narrative of this election, that seems to be the ultimate message. John McCain has been able to throw wrenches in every now and then (most notably with Mrs. Palin), but he doesn't seem to be making an impact AT ALL. In fact, if John McCain happens to win this thing, I think I could confidently say i was in SPITE of him and because of his VP pick.
Watching the polls, looking at the state splits and reading about the attacks and responses, I cannot see a scenario, even with Palin active, that sees the Obama Biden ticket failing (unless polling was seriously out of whack). This looks to me to be just like Bush/Kerry; all Bush had to do was not fuck up monumentally and he won. And look what happened. Can anybody really say, based on what we know now, that Kerry had a chance? (Especially considering the admittance of most of this thread that people wanted to see Bush LOSE more than Kerry win?)
I could be very, VERY wrong, but honestly, I can't shake the feeling that the remaining two months is just a formality.
In my opinion, the only thing Obama had to prove was:
1. A Black man could be president
and
2. Obama wasn't like George Bush.
Watching the polls and the overall narrative of this election, that seems to be the ultimate message. John McCain has been able to throw wrenches in every now and then (most notably with Mrs. Palin), but he doesn't seem to be making an impact AT ALL. In fact, if John McCain happens to win this thing, I think I could confidently say i was in SPITE of him and because of his VP pick.
Watching the polls, looking at the state splits and reading about the attacks and responses, I cannot see a scenario, even with Palin active, that sees the Obama Biden ticket failing (unless polling was seriously out of whack). This looks to me to be just like Bush/Kerry; all Bush had to do was not fuck up monumentally and he won. And look what happened. Can anybody really say, based on what we know now, that Kerry had a chance? (Especially considering the admittance of most of this thread that people wanted to see Bush LOSE more than Kerry win?)
I could be very, VERY wrong, but honestly, I can't shake the feeling that the remaining two months is just a formality.
Agree. When Obama hit him with the houses flap, McCain responded with a harsh Rezko ad. I'm expecting nothing less here.Fragamemnon said:
I do think McCain is a good man, and means well. I also think he's running a dishonest campaign and his policies are bad. Nothing personal against him, or you.Cooter said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
PhoenixDark said:
There seems to be a lot of Obama ads running in Florida. I've seen them quite a bit. Unfortunately I think a lot of campaign ads just turn into noise. The Obama ad where he cites Palin's flip on the bridge to nowehere is playing down here but a Mccain ad saying that she was on the right side of that very issue is also playing often right before or after the Obama ad. In these situations I think the viewer just picks the position that he was already pre-inclined to have which I think is a bigger Mcccain swing down here. I would love for Obama to take FL but with recent history I just find that impossible to believe.
worldrunover
Member
Cooter said:
Are you saying that no matter who wins, we win? It's like the anti-'04?
I personally would have never noticed, if it wasn't for Huffington Post. I think some people just search for these things.OuterWorldVoice said:
I don't doubt FOX does things like that, but I imagine it would fly over most peoples heads. They wouldn't notice either, unless, again, they were actively searching for it.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Fuck my state. Ohio...
:/
:/
This is great. What I have been waiting for. Keep the pressure up guys.Fragamemnon said:
And out of touch. And angry. And crazy. I don't think he's really evil though. I don't even think Palin is evil, I think she's just in over her head and doing what she's told by the evil people.AniHawk said:
What does everyone think of the Senate situation? Right now it seems like there are four locks (Warner, Shaheen and the Udalls). Alaska will be interesting too, with the competing effects of the Stevens eithics probe and "Alaska First" Palin on the ticket. Beyond that MN and NC are the only ones that really seem to have a really good chance. So that'd be 55-57, which would be pretty good shape.
edit-
Coleman ad
Holy crap. Awesome
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