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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)

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J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Did Bush win Pennsylvania back in 2004? Reason why I ask is that seems like voters are frustruated with the war and even looking back at the 06 elections, many republicans lost their seats. Things might not turn out so well for McCain in the general elections.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Things might not turn out so well for McCain in the general elections.
Click to expand...

the media won't tell you this because they need a tight race, but just look at the drastic difference in turn-outs and new voter registration between parties, as well as the last abysmal years of gwb. a democrat is guaranteed to be the next president, barring any major fuck-ups, and the dems will gain more seats in the house and senate.
 
A

APF

Member
scorcho said:
this probably belongs in its own thread, but it's just too funny not to post here (from drudge)

poor Alberto! even Yoo managed to find a cushy gig after leaving the administration.
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oh no al might start clinging to religion and guns an bein fraid of teh immigrants now what a shame poor al
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
Response from McCain camp:



Update with statement from McCain spokesperson Tucker Bounds:

“Voters will reject his so-called truths that he still stands by. His remarks were false. The importance of our Second Amendment and our country’s longstanding history with faith and spirituality are born in history, not bitterness and frustration. His view is absolutely restricted by elitism.”




Spare me the bullshit. His comments are TRUE.
 
T

thekad

Banned
Slow news week?

Wait, does APF actually disagree with Obama's comments? I mean, to do so would be a slap in the face of both history and psychology.
 
A

APF

Member
What, that the only reason people are, for example, religious; or, for example, make anti-trade arguments, is because they're embittered since the Federal Government hasn't given them enough handouts? I fail to see either the rationality or the historical reality in that argument.
 
T

thekad

Banned
APF said:
What, that the only reason people are, for example, religious; or, for example, make anti-trade arguments, is because they're embittered since the Federal Government hasn't given them enough handouts? I fail to see either the rationality or the historical reality in that argument.
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When faced with dark times, people turn to counter-productive and/or self-destructive things. Voting for Bush on the issues of gunz/gayz/mexicanz would be a good example.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Why are people being dense and pretending Obama said people become gun nuts or homophobes as a reaction to the economic climate? He just said that they've ceased believing elected officials will do anything, so they've moved onto voting based on issues they do think will be addressed.
 
T

thekad

Banned
Dan said:
Why are people being dense and pretending Obama said people become gun nuts or homophobes as a reaction to the economic climate? He just said that they've ceased believing elected officials will do anything, so they've moved onto voting based on issues they do think will be addressed.
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APF acts dense for the fun of it, I'm sure.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Dan said:
Why are people being dense and pretending Obama said people become gun nuts or homophobes as a reaction to the economic climate? He just said that they've ceased believing elected officials will do anything, so they've moved onto voting based on issues they do think will be addressed.
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Do those issues actually get more attention than say the economy in those small, rural communities when it comes to who they're voting for?
 
M

Macam

Banned
More inane insider campaign talk for those interested (more at link):

Geoffrey Garin: Obama's Small-Town Comments Would Damage Him In General Election -- And Super-Dels Should Consider Them
By Greg Sargent - April 12, 2008, 3:10PM

Hillary chief strategist Geoffrey Garin dramatically raised the stakes in the battle over Barack Obama's comments about small-town America, saying in an interview that they would be "damaging" to him in a general election, could set back the Democratic Party's efforts to reach heartland voters, and should be something that super-delegates consider when deciding whom to support.

"These are the kinds of attitudes that have created a gulf between Democrats and lots of small-town and heartland voters that we've been working very, very hard to bridge," Garin told me today in his first public comments about the flap.

"I saw Senator Obama's comments as a step backward to building those kinds of bridges," Garin continued, saying the following of the impact that the comments could have in a general election:

"They will be damaging. And they could be significantly so...I don't think that the kinds of attitudes that Senator Obama expressed are consistent with Democrats doing what we need to do to win a general election."

In the wide-ranging interview, Garin also:

* Suggested that the comments were "completely fair game" for use in an ad, and an "important topic"

* Said that he would "hope" that the Clinton campaign would point to the comments in their efforts to persuade super-delegates to back her over Obama

* Said that Mark Penn felt "embarrassed" and felt like he'd been "taken to the woodshed," and allowed that Penn "did a dumb thing"

* Said that while Hillary's reputation "isn't going to get any worse," Obama's "isn't going to get any better"

* Said that Obama had implied that working-class people are "small-minded"

"Working class people in all parts of America are frustrated, but they are not small-minded in the way that Senator Obama's comments conveyed," Garin said.
Asked what impact the comments could have in a general election, Garin said: "The people who are most likely to be offended by this are also the most likely to be swing voters in general elections."...

"These comments, and the larger issue of the Obama campaign's inability to connect with these working class voters, is not a little thing. It's a big thing. And it's a big thing that is likely to end up making a big difference in November."

(more at link)
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"It's 3 a.m. in your small, rural town. The phone rings, and since you're unemployed thanks to your job being outsourced, you're up worrying about how you're going to feed your brilliant, hard-working children. You reach over with your rolled-up sleeves to answer it..."
 
T

terrene

Banned
Dan said:
Why are people being dense and pretending Obama said people become gun nuts or homophobes as a reaction to the economic climate? He just said that they've ceased believing elected officials will do anything, so they've moved onto voting based on issues they do think will be addressed.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that was the thrust of the comments, but I hope you're right, becuase that's an explanation that is plausible and harmless enough to diffuse much of the brouhaha. Slate (at http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/ ), for example, hasn't wrapped their head around it in quite the same way:
Slate said:
Cling Along with Barack: The always-suspect Michael Lind nevertheless sends around a useful commentary on Obama's gruesomely off-key condscension toward downscale Rustbelt voters:

Michael Lind said:
"According to Obama, working class (white) people "cling to guns" because they are bitter at losing their manufacturing jobs.

Excuse me? Hunting is part of working-class American culture. Does Obama really think that working-class whites in Pennsylvania were gun control liberals until their industries were downsized, whereas they all rushed to join the NRA ..."
Click to expand...

I used to think working class voters had conservative values because they were bitter about their economic circumstances--welfare and immigrants were "scapegoats," part of the false consciousness that would disappear when everyone was guaranteed a good job at good wages. Then I left college. ...
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The "opportunity is a gateway to liberalism" interpretation is far more far-fetched than your "voting on what you can actually control" interpretation, but this is the first I've heard of it.
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
terrene said:
I'm not sure that was the thrust of the comments, but I hope you're right, becuase that's an explanation that is plausible and harmless enough to diffuse much of the brouhaha. Slate (at http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/ ), for example, hasn't wrapped their head around it in quite the same way:
The "opportunity is a gateway to liberalism" interpretation is far more far-fetched than your "voting on what you can actually control" interpretation, but this is the first I've heard of it.
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http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGBWf8
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'm sorry, but I have to share this with you guys, courtesy of the permabanned FlameOfCallonor; he posted this on...another message board

FlameOfCallonor said:

Hey PeeDee would this make you mad if Mccain said this:

"But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get black people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to basketball or rap music or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Click to expand...

And the worse thing is that he's quite serious...
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
typhonsentra said:
Talked about, but has it been posted yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xPuDgKO04
Click to expand...
8a4hxz4.gif
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Cheebs said:
The problem is the mere fact the media says its bad a large percentage of people will agree its bad purely cause the media told them it is.
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I agree, although there are also plenty of people who will misinterpret the comment on their own, or be turned off by Obama allegedly "talking down to them." This is now the second time Obama has had to apologize or explain something about him or his campaign, both of which will turn up in the general election. While I still feel the Wright issue showed a problem in judgment, I think these comments have been grossly taken out of context.

The problem for Obama is that there's a pattern now, and the media now has a narrative: Obama is elitist, Obama doesnt' do well with blue collar workers, Obama is out of touch with the average American, etc. Now of course, I don't believe these things to be true and find it extremely ironic that the first true outsider candidate to have a shot at the White House in ages is now seen as the elitist in the race. That's laughable, but it's happened and now it's time to see how he deals with it.
 
M

maximum360

Member
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/pelosi-on-bill.html

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was asked about former President Bill Clinton's error-riddled defense of his wife, regarding her Hemingway-esque accounting of her 1996 trip to Bosnia.

"I can't for the life of me figure out why the president would have said it except he may have been having a late night adult moment," Pelosi told CBS's Bob Schieffer, "but let's leave it at that."

Kind of harsh for a House speaker to say about a former president.

And ABC News' Sarah Amos points out that Bill Clinton's comments were hardly "late night" -- having been uttered at 3 in the afternoon and again at 5 pm.

Somebody buy these Democrats some watches.
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Ouch.
 
L

lopaz

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I agree, although there are also plenty of people who will misinterpret the comment on their own, or be turned off by Obama allegedly "talking down to them." This is now the second time Obama has had to apologize or explain something about him or his campaign, both of which will turn up in the general election. While I still feel the Wright issue showed a problem in judgment, I think these comments have been grossly taken out of context.

The problem for Obama is that there's a pattern now, and the media now has a narrative: Obama is elitist, Obama doesnt' do well with blue collar workers, Obama is out of touch with the average American, etc. Now of course, I don't believe these things to be true and find it extremely ironic that the first true outsider candidate to have a shot at the White House in ages is now seen as the elitist in the race. That's laughable, but it's happened and now it's time to see how he deals with it.
Click to expand...

The media can really go suck a cock. Hillary was able to tell blatant, deliberate lies about her record, but all she has to do is say "I misspoke! Shows I'm human!" and now every time it's reported the media uses the word "misspoke" or "misrepresented" instead of lied.

How the fuck do you remember an event so wrongly that you invent sniper fire? Is that strictly classed as insanity?
 
K

Kaeru

Banned
The lovely thing about this whole "bittergate" is that 1 week from now nobody will give a fuck about it, media just needs something new to talk about. And everybody is taking the bait as usual.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
lopaz said:
The media can really go suck a cock. Hillary was able to tell blatant, deliberate lies about her record, but all she has to do is say "I misspoke! Shows I'm human!" and now every time it's reported the media uses the word "misspoke" or "misrepresented" instead of lied.

How the fuck do you remember an event so wrongly that you invent sniper fire? Is that strictly classed as insanity?
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Apparently this is a more exciting story to them for whatever reason; also as I said, this gives them a narrative. I don't know how this issue is playing out in Pennsylvania. I'm starting to think the the media is done trying to bury Clinton, and instead is going to continue covering the race as if it's razor thin. Obama is doing himself no favors among white voters but I'd hope that many can see his nuance instead of relying on the media's take.

Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem, and to deny its existence would be ignorant.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
I agree that he has to be more careful, but it's unlikely he'll make this mistake again. The reason it hurt him this time is because he assumed he was in a "Safe" place where he wouldn't be attacked and his words wouldn't be parsed. He should know better now, never say anything that could be interpreted as controversial anywhere ever, even if you think you're alone! :p

And guys, Hillary didn't just get away with Tuzla. She was berated for weeks on end until the media just got tired of it. Obama just has to hope he can sail this through to clear skies.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
typhonsentra said:
I agree that he has to be more careful, but it's unlikely he'll make this mistake again. The reason it hurt him this time is because he assumed he was in a "Safe" place where he wouldn't be attacked and his words wouldn't be parsed. He should know better now, never say anything that could be interpreted as controversial anywhere ever, even if you think you're alone! :p
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Doubtful considering this isn't the first time. While I understand and agree with his statement, I can't help but wonder if it's time to cut losses and lower the nuanced answers on issues like this. He's already got a problem with respect to his numbers among older whites and working class whites, many of whom could easily vote for McCain who - let's face it - is not seen as an ordinary modern, Bush Republican.

The religion issue especially comes to mind, and it's the type of thing that could turn people off - especially as it's repeated in negative ads through September and October assuming he gets the nomination
 
mashoutposse

mashoutposse

Ante Up
typhonsentra said:
Talked about, but has it been posted yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xPuDgKO04
Click to expand...

In an odd twist, this whole flap could end up helping Obama earn even more votes with the very people Clinton/McCain/the media claim should be outraged. If he is truly speaking the truth, small town Pennsylvanians will recognize it and respond accordingly (as the man did in this video). The people on the other side of the flap may even take a small hit amongst these people.

As evidenced by the Wright situation, his campaign has demonstrated the ability to turn a kneejerk negative into a longterm neutral or even positive as long as a nuanced look at Obama's position is favorable to him.
 
S

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
I wonder if this will hurt obama`s chances of closing the gap in Pennsylvania, he stills has two weeks to repair the damage tough.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Gexecuter said:
I wonder if this will hurt obama`s chances of closing the gap in Pennsylvania, he stills has two weeks to repair the damage tough.
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I was thinking the same thing. It really depends on the media spin. But I concede, it might possibly help him in the long run if he can clarify his statement and get it out there so that people will recognize that he understands what they're going through.

As we saw today, despite Fox's best efforts to paint Obama as an elitist, even people voting for John McCain agreed with Obama's comments.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
I really think that Obama is going to fair pretty well in PA if he makes a final push there from mid-week up until the primary. It sounds like wishful thinking to say he has a CHANCE of pulling an upset, but I don't think it's THAT much wishful thinking. The response that my group got in Montrose today was incredible.
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I really think that Obama is going to fair pretty well in PA if he makes a final push there from mid-week up until the primary. It sounds like wishful thinking to say he has a CHANCE of pulling an upset, but I don't think it's THAT much wishful thinking. The response that my group got in Montrose today was incredible.
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I personally think he will lose PA,but it will be close. But we will have to see.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
XxenobladerxX said:
I personally think he will lose PA,but it will be close. But we will have to see.
Click to expand...

I don't even think "losing" will have an effect. Hillary was supposed to win big, and it would at least give her momentum to continue on for the rest of the cycle, even though it's virtually impossible for her to win at this point. But Barack has closed the gap which is a victory in itself. If he essentially splits the delegates, that's huge. I am just hoping he can pull a major upset and put icing on the cake.
 
T

terrene

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
It's just hilarious how she kept pushing and pushing for the man to say something negative about Obama's comments. :lol
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Not only that, but she tries to minimize his opinion by asking: "so, are you an Obama supporter, then?" Nope, he's a McCain supporter, bitch. pwn3d.
 
H

Hootie

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I don't even think "losing" will have an effect. Hillary was supposed to win big, and it would at least give her momentum to continue on for the rest of the cycle, even though it's virtually impossible for her to win at this point. But Barack has closed the gap which is a victory in itself. If he essentially splits the delegates, that's huge. I am just hoping he can pull a major upset and put icing on the cake.
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Also, don't forget that North Carolina is going to be right after Pennsylvania and Obama is supposed to win big in NC.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I just can't get over Hilldog's transformation into a gun toting workin ma who goes to church 3 days a week:

“I grew up in a church-going family, a family that believed in the importance of living out and expressing our faith,” she said at a rally in Indianapolis. “The people of faith I know don’t ‘cling to’ religion because they’re bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich.”

Later in the day, in Valparaiso, Ind., she recalled how her father taught her how to shoot when she was a young girl. She also said that her faith “is the faith of my parents and my grandparents.”



Ahh politics :lol :lol
 
H

harSon

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'm sorry, but I have to share this with you guys, courtesy of the permabanned FlameOfCallonor; he posted this on...another message board



And the worse thing is that he's quite serious...
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that he wasn't targeting a particular race with his words, black people do live in Pennsylvania :lol
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
FWIW- I agree with Joe Klein in that the word that makes this look a bit bad isn't bitter, but "cling". He says it better than me:

"This is a pretty accurate description of the mood I've seen out in the country this year. But there is one unfortunate word, and it's not bitter, it's cling which implies a certain weakness and closed-mindedness in our fellow countrymen. Is it condescending? Slightly"
 
H

harSon

Banned
schuelma said:
FWIW- I agree with Joe Klein in that the word that makes this look a bit bad isn't bitter, but "cling". He says it better than me:

"This is a pretty accurate description of the mood I've seen out in the country this year. But there is one unfortunate word, and it's not bitter, it's cling which implies a certain weakness and closed-mindedness in our fellow countrymen. Is it condescending? Slightly"
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Not exactly...

Cling:
# come or be in close contact with; stick or hold together and resist separation; "The dress clings to her body"; "The label stuck to the box"; "The ...
# to remain emotionally or intellectually attached; "He clings to the idea that she might still love him."
# hold on tightly or tenaciously; "hang on to your father's hands"; "The child clung to his mother's apron"
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It's not like the guy can speak while simultaneously analyzing every word for contextual accuracy.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Did Bush win Pennsylvania back in 2004? Reason why I ask is that seems like voters are frustruated with the war and even looking back at the 06 elections, many republicans lost their seats. Things might not turn out so well for McCain in the general elections.
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Pennslyvania hasn't gone Republican since 1988
 
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