PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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Hitokage said:
Most of GAF are like hungry dogs who only care if their master throws them a meaty bone or not. Obama had better things to do.

Anyway, now that this thread has slowed down, I'll mention that I'm rather impressed that last night's debate was something resembling an actual debate, and not just a game of thirty second stump. Sure, it wasn't ideal in that regard, but it was so much better than what passed for a debate in previous elections.
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Agree. Mad props to Lehrer and the commission. It worked really well for both candidates.
 
I'm still almost certain the Palin debate won't happen, but at the same time I think that after trying to delay his debate you'd think that messing around with the Palin debate is not going to fly with the people.

Maybe in fact McCain's camp will be so certain that they are fucked that they'll send her ahead and let her screw everything up. A white flag basically :lol
 
StoOgE said:
pretty much.

and CNN had a good point, in 1992 when Perot was percieved to have barely won the debate the night of, by Monday morning that perception was even larger... because once people see who "won" the debate in the polls they start parroting it and it becomes an even bigger "win"
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It's going to be interesting to watch the gaggle of tracking polls for the next few days. With so much data coming every single day, we'll know pretty quickly how this affected the race. I won't let myself think Obama can pull even further ahead, but if he does, McCain is in deep trouble.

Here's a snippet from CNN's poll:

THE DEBATE’S EFFECT ON OPINIONS OF THE CANDIDATES
Code: 
        Obama McCain 
Better    46% 32% 
Worse      8  21 
No change 46  47
People view Obama more favorably after, and McCain less, by a big margin. I think that's currency McCain will have a hard time getting back.
 
tanod said:
Agree. Mad props to Lehrer and the commission. It worked really well for both candidates.
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I told you guys, Lehrer is fucking awesome.

He should handle all of the debates. He asked good substantive questions, if they ducked answering it he came right back and hammered them. He let them keep going and talk to each other if it waranted it. He just got out of the way and let the candidates debate.

This should be the format for all future debates (versus the stupid give me a 10 second answer to 1000 questions). Also, no gotcha questions, no questions that only led to yes or no answers. They were all open ended and he let them connect back to other issues and create a cohesive vision.

Lehrer is awesome. Thursday will be awesome as well. It goes slightly downhill after that.
 
GhaleonEB said:
It's going to be interesting to watch the gaggle of tracking polls for the next few days. With so much data coming every single day, we'll know pretty quickly how this affected the race. I won't let myself think Obama can pull even further ahead, but if he does, McCain is in deep trouble.

Here's a snippet from CNN's poll:

THE DEBATE’S EFFECT ON OPINIONS OF THE CANDIDATES
Code: 
        Obama McCain 
Better    46% 32% 
Worse      8  21 
No change 46  47
People view Obama more favorably after, and McCain less, by a big margin. I think that's currency McCain will have a hard time getting back.
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Obama doesnt need to do better in the polls. Certainly it would be nice, but if Obama just keeps things where they are over the next week and gets to the last, economic debate he is in the perfect position to set him up the bomb.
 
Rhindle said:
Anyone who thinks the "won't look at Obama" thing is new or was coached, take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-gENJOs8s


McCain goes to great lengths to never look at Obama. At one point where they have to turn around, he snaps his head back to avoid capturing Obama in his field of vision.
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It's old, he's always been like that even against his Republican opponents like Romney and Giuliani. Down to the stupid smirk. It's a mental problem he has, probably something like the short-man syndrome, + a lot of hate and a sense of superiority.
 
StoOgE said:
I told you guys, Lehrer is fucking awesome.

He should handle all of the debates. He asked good substantive questions, if they ducked answering it he came right back and hammered them. He let them keep going and talk to each other if it waranted it. He just got out of the way and let the candidates debate.

This should be the format for all future debates (versus the stupid give me a 10 second answer to 1000 questions). Also, no gotcha questions, no questions that only led to yes or no answers. They were all open ended and he let them connect back to other issues and create a cohesive vision.

Lehrer is awesome. Thursday will be awesome as well. It goes slightly downhill after that.
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The only thing he needs to improve is evenly distributing who gets the 'final word', Mccain was basically given the final word in most cases.
 
grey_norah.jpg


Yeah baby...
 
The more I think about it, the more it bothers me that McCain just smirked and didn't look at Obama at all last night (edit: didn't know he did this pretty much all the time... interesting that he never looked at the camera, either).

Drudge is hilarious (and that Vogue video is amazing!).

StoOgE said:
I told you guys, Lehrer is fucking awesome.

He should handle all of the debates. He asked good substantive questions, if they ducked answering it he came right back and hammered them. He let them keep going and talk to each other if it waranted it. He just got out of the way and let the candidates debate.

This should be the format for all future debates (versus the stupid give me a 10 second answer to 1000 questions). Also, no gotcha questions, no questions that only led to yes or no answers. They were all open ended and he let them connect back to other issues and create a cohesive vision.

Lehrer is awesome. Thursday will be awesome as well. It goes slightly downhill after that.
Click to expand...
Lehrer is indeed great, although ending the debate on that 9/11 question was a misstep, IMO. Each candidate had to awkwardly answer that and somehow segue into their closing statements, which was just weird in both cases.
 
By the way, I really wish the candidates would stop repeating the "wipe Israel off the map" lie.

It's incredibly dangerous to repeat such a lie. I for one don't want to go to war with Iran at all.
 
These analysts on MSNBC right now are really missing the point.

Kind of annoying. Why the fuck can't I be a political pundit? These random people seem pretty useless.
 
So what now?

Does the McCain campaign find a way to delay or cancel the VP debate? Do they rig Palin with microphones and literally feed her the answers behind the podium? I don't see how they get through this without sustaining massive crab damage.
 
:lol

Body language expert going to be analyzing the debate last night soon on MSNBC. This should be good...
 
Taking one of those infamous Zogby interactive/online polls....here's one question:



Do you consider yourself to be mostly a resident of: your city or town, America, or the planet earth?
My city or town
America
The planet earth
Not sure/refused
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:lol
 
Deus Ex Machina said:
He doesn't even look at Michelle.

0150229250085.jpg


Somethings up...
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I noticed this last night. When she walked up to shake his hand, he never looked at her and pulled his hand away as quickly as possible. What the hell is wrong with this guy?
 
StoOgE said:
Obama doesnt need to do better in the polls. Certainly it would be nice, but if Obama just keeps things where they are over the next week and gets to the last, economic debate he is in the perfect position to set him up the bomb.
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To set McCain up the bomb? What you say!! Take off every 'Biden'!!
 
MassiveAttack said:
So what now?

Does the McCain campaign find a way to delay or cancel the VP debate? Do they rig Palin with microphones and literally feed her the answers behind the podium? I don't see how they get through this without sustaining massive crab damage.
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It will be interesting to see if the "Palin buzz" carries through to the VP debate, where she can do no wrong, no matter how poorly a showing she has or what ridiculous statements she makes. The Couric interview was the turning point for many people, including my mom, who was a huge Palin supporter at the beginning. Not so much anymore. When conservative Republicans are recommending that you bow out now gracefully (who were doing cartwheels for her after the RNC), that's a pretty bad sign.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I thought he won too, but I have a hard time fighting through my bias. So I called it a draw. Sometimes I just love being wrong.
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I did the exact same thing. In hindsight, he did a LOT of things right that I didn't catch when I watched it last night.

Also, I feel pretty awesome that I watched the debate on CNN and then went to bed. Immediate post debate is always completely unlistenable because there's no REAL analysis. The real impact is always felt the morning after.

Agree with Buchanan though in that this will be really good for Obama for the sole reason that I think he came across as extremely knowledgeable and competent and certainly passed the CiC test for a lot of people.
 
MassiveAttack said:
So what now?

Does the McCain campaign find a way to delay or cancel the VP debate? Do they rig Palin with microphones and literally feed her the answers behind the podium? I don't see how they get through this without sustaining massive crab damage.
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Its easy actually.

If she comes out like an idiot, and Biden comes out aggressive and attacks her.... then shell win, aka the hillary tear effect.
 
jamesinclair said:
Its easy actually.

If she comes out like an idiot, and Biden comes out aggressive and attacks her.... then shell win, aka the hillary tear effect.
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Luckily the debate will be more structured in comparison to last night.
 
MassiveAttack said:
So what now?

Does the McCain campaign find a way to delay or cancel the VP debate? Do they rig Palin with microphones and literally feed her the answers behind the podium? I don't see how they get through this without sustaining massive crab damage.
Click to expand...

It'll be bad if she's hammered, it'll be bad if she doesn't have a debate.

So feeding her the answers via a bush style earpiece unit would probably be the correct answer.

After all, you can dictate everything to her, and you can also obfuscate the discussion of cheating by saying that it was just a monitoring device, or a health device... or some kind of shit. It's going to look bad, but not as bad.

And hey, if they can make her appear competent, while sustaining minor damage on cheating... they may have a bit of a turn around again. A bit though. They're both still transparently idiotic.
 
Obama campaign manager David Plouffe told reporters Saturday that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, is “a terrific debater” who could give Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Joe Biden (D-Del.) a run for his money when they meet Thursday.

“We’ve looked at tapes of Gov. Palin’s debates, and she’s a terrific debater,” Plouffe told reporters on a conference call. “She has performed very, very well. She’s obviously a skilled speaker. We expect she’ll give a great performance next Thursday. “

The single vice presidential debate will be at 9 p.m. Eastern on Thursday at Washington University in St. Louis.

Lowering expectations is a common campaign practice before a debate. But the Obama campaign's claims will surprise the Republicans who have begun to fear the debate following Palin’s performance in network interviews. The Obama campaign says they have nothing to worry about.

Some Democrats were worried that Biden would have to hold back to avoid running up the score. But they shouldn’t fret, either.

“She’s obviously prepping this weekend in Pennsylvania,” Plouffe continued. “Anyone who watches any of her previous debates would be impressed by her debating skills."
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Heh
 
I really don't think Biden will pay much attention to Palin.

If Biden comes out gracious and forthcoming on the issues and seems patient with Palin's responses while making his points, he'll make her come off as an idiot without forcing the issue. Especially since Palin will probably have been coached to divert serious discussion.
 
Crayon Shinchan said:
It'll be bad if she's hammered, it'll be bad if she doesn't have a debate.

So feeding her the answers via a bush style earpiece unit would probably be the correct answer.

After all, you can dictate everything to her, and you can also obfuscate the discussion of cheating by saying that it was just a monitoring device, or a health device... or some kind of shit. It's going to look bad, but not as bad.

And hey, if they can make her appear competent, while sustaining minor damage on cheating... they may have a bit of a turn around again. A bit though. They're both still transparently idiotic.
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WHAT?!?!?

Palin: I never told you about my hearing problem, Im just going to wear this hearing piece to help me hear better, in no way is this an earpiece. I didn't tell you about my hearing problem, I guess I forgot to mention it with my bridge to nowhere.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
I really don't think Biden will pay much attention to Palin.

If Biden comes out gracious and forthcoming on the issues and seems patient with Palin's responses while making his points, he'll make her come off as an idiot without forcing the issue. Especially since Palin will probably have been coached to divert serious discussion.
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In an ideal scenario, all Biden has to do is show up and he wins.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
GAF seems to want Obama to run the kind of campaign Hillary ran, and at the same time wants to look down at McCain for doing the same.
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That weird gaf dynamic has always been in place. He ran and won as a different sort of candidate but whenever he is actually consistent with that approach gaf freaks. I say that as someone who supported Hillary in the primary.
 
All the pictures of McCain avoiding eye contact are scary. I dont know much what each party is trying to accomplish but that is never a good sign.
 
Stoney Mason said:
That weird gaf dynamic has always been in place. He ran and won as a different sort of candidate but whenever he is actually consistent with that approach gaf freaks. I say that as someone who supported Hillary in the primary.
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i don't really want a Hilary Destroys All type campaign, but i want something with more punch. A little bit more aggression would help. Obama could afford to step in that ass once in a while.
 
^^^ Is aggression what he needs, though, in a campaign that's been about hope and change? I agree with a lot of folks that to a certain extent, him stepping away from that message and getting mad is what's allowed the race to get so close. That being said, I agree that there has to be more pushback and shots fired back that we've seen.

DeaconKnowledge said:
I really don't think Biden will pay much attention to Palin.

If Biden comes out gracious and forthcoming on the issues and seems patient with Palin's responses while making his points, he'll make her come off as an idiot without forcing the issue. Especially since Palin will probably have been coached to divert serious discussion.
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Sounds like that's what he's going to do, based on what he told Olbermann. I really like this guy. Olbermann tried to bait him a bit by seeing if he'd be aggressive, and Biden basically said that that wasn't his style to be condescending and sarcastic like McCain last night. He seems like a very humble guy who does a great job at connecting with his audience. His town hall talks have been some of the best I've seen, with excellent content and clarity.

That being said, however, if Palin goes on the attack (and I think she has to), Biden will likely fire back, and fire back hard. When he gets angry/passionate about what he's talking about, that's when the guy is 110% riveting to listen to.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
By the way, I really wish the candidates would stop repeating the "wipe Israel off the map" lie.

It's incredibly dangerous to repeat such a lie. I for one don't want to go to war with Iran at all.
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Its pretty fucking sad that our entire foreign policy pretty much focuses around Israel and what it desires. This needs to fundamentally change, and it's only then that real progress can be made in the middle-east. How Israel has emerged as this beacon of Holy light which the US must bend backwards to please at all costs is just absolutely a counter-productive philosophy, and absolutely not in our best interests. But I guess thats for another topic.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
In an ideal scenario, all Biden has to do is show up and he wins.
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If I was a betting man I would put money on Biden to win but it almost certainly won't be the "crushing" the majority of gaf is salivating for.
 
Palin and her followers crying sexism or complaining about the 'mean old bullies' that are the democrats are doing absolutely shit for the perception of females as politicians. Let her get her ass kicked in the debates, let her lick her wounds and let her become stronger as a politician in the long run FFS.
 
Ok i missed the debate last night but is this what happened:

In general the public thought Obama did much better.
McCain absolutely refuses to look him in the eye for some reason. why?
McCain said horseshit (not clearly though)
anything else interesting?
 
Stoney Mason said:
If I was a betting man I would put money on Biden to win but it almost certainly won't be the "crushing" the majority of gaf is salivating for.
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I think each of the candidate is going win or lose on their own.

Biden will be asked questions and he will do a good job. He will "win" for himself.

Palin will be asked questions and she will not do a good job. She will "lose" for herself.

I don't think anything Biden says about Palin will be the killing blow. She'll commit seppuku all on her own.
 
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