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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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T

thefit

Member
Hitokage said:
Ok, I'm no expert on campaign finance, but are we approaching illegality here?

By the way, this just after Time tries to fact check campaign ads and docks Obama for tying Davis to Freddie Mac. :lol
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter, are you telling me you defend sleezy casino connections to government officials legal or not?!!!

See what I did there? Good job NYT. McCain picked on the WRONG rag to go after.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
The Lamonster said:
57 Million Watched Presidential Debate: Nielsen Estimate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/57-million-watched-presid_n_129890.html


My city is awesome.
Click to expand...
Yeah that was posted earlier today; someone noted that makes it the second most-watched debate in history. If the snap polls are at all reflective of reality, it could have a pretty big impact. Just imagine if it wasn't on a Friday night.

Any predictions for the trackers tomorrow? I'm guessing Rasmussen dips a bit - it's at the highest Obama has ever been right now - but the others continue to edge up.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Not sure how many are following Newsweek's investigative reporting on Rick Davis, but it's really ugly.

Josh Marshall at TPM adds on to their findings:


Davis basically set up a shell organization to funnel money between the McCain campaign, the RNC and Davis' lobbying firm.
Click to expand...


I sent an e-mail here ( http://www.3edc.net/contact/ ) asking if this was the right place to launder money to John McCain or Rick Davis.

No response yet.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
thefit said:
Doesn't matter, are you telling me you defend sleezy casino connections to government officials legal or not?!!!

See what I did there? Good job NYT. McCain picked on the WRONG rag to go after.
Click to expand...


Heard an interesting perspective on the NYT thing today - that McCain (and other GOPers) uses it as a patsy so that when it does expose him, he can cry, "see, librul NYT made stuff up!"
 
D

DEO3

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Yeah that was posted earlier today; someone noted that makes it the second most-watched debate in history. If the snap polls are at all reflective of reality, it could have a pretty big impact. Just imagine if it wasn't on a Friday night.

Any predictions for the trackers tomorrow? I'm guessing Rasmussen dips a bit - it's at the highest Obama has ever been right now - but the others continue to edge up.
Click to expand...

Rasmussen hints that there wasn't much change in the Saturday interviews for his Daily Tracking Poll

Five percent (5%) of voters say the debate changed how they would vote, but the changes were equally divided between Obama and McCain supporters. Saturday interviews for the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll—the first post debate interviews--suggest that little has changed following the debate and Obama retains a modest lead over McCain.
Click to expand...

So the bad news is, we may not see any kind of bump from this debate, but the good news is our 5ish point lead over McCain holds steady.
 
T

thefit

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Heard an interesting perspective on the NYT thing today - that McCain (and other GOPers) uses it as a patsy so that when it does expose him, he can cry, "see, librul NYT made stuff up!"
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for them, the rest of the media is following suite, they didn't like that his campaign specifically made it a point to fight the media and keep Palin from them. What you are seeing now, from the debate to this casino stuff is big puchback and McCain can decry all he wants but he's on the defence and that makes him look like a whinner plus he doesn't have enough outlets beyond the right wing blogs to defend him. He bit the hand that fed him.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Heard an interesting perspective on the NYT thing today - that McCain (and other GOPers) uses it as a patsy so that when it does expose him, he can cry, "see, librul NYT made stuff up!"
Click to expand...
Bit of an aside, but speaking of the Times, Frank Rich's epic recap of the past week was masterful.

It’s that utter power vacuum that gave McCain the opening to pull his potentially catastrophic display of economic “leadership” last week. He may be the first presidential candidate in our history to risk wrecking the country even before being voted into the Oval Office.
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/opinion/28rich.html?ref=opinion
 
M

maximum360

Member
thefit said:
Unfortunately for them, the rest of the media is following suite, they didn't like that his campaign specifically made it a point to fight the media and keep Palin from them. What you are seeing now, from the debate to this casino stuff is big puchback and McCain can decry all he wants but he's on the defence and that makes him look like a whinner plus he doesn't have enough outlets beyond the right wing blogs to defend him. He bit the hand that fed him.
Click to expand...

I wonder how that "Sara Palin won't do many interviews until the media pays her due deference" is working out for them. McCain managed to go from having the media as his "base" to pissing off the media. That takes true talent.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Attn. Older & Seasoned PoliGaffers:


Were things looking this good for the Democrat in late September in the 2000 and 2004 elections?

(I'm 24 and I've always been interested in politics, but I didn't really follow the polls or pay attention to the daily horse race until now)

Basically, at this point do you guys think Obama is gonna win?
 
T

thefit

Member
maximum360 said:
I wonder how that "Sara Palin won't do many interviews until the media pays her due deference" is working out for them. McCain managed to go from having the media as his "base" to pissing off the media. That takes true talent.
Click to expand...

Probably the biggest but least reported blunder by the McCain campaign, of course why would anyone want to report that? ;)
 
C

Clevinger

Member
The Lamonster said:
Attn. Older & Seasoned PoliGaffers:


Were things looking this good for the Democrat in late September in the 2000 and 2004 elections?

(I'm 24 and I've always been interested in politics, but I didn't really follow the polls or pay attention to the daily horse race until now)

Basically, at this point do you guys think Obama is gonna win?
Click to expand...

I don't remember Gore, but Kerry was behind right now.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
The Lamonster said:
Were things looking this good for the Democrat in late September in the 2000 and 2004 elections?
Click to expand...
Gallup recently published their trackers for all previous elections they've polled. Obama is far better off right now than either Gore or Kerry were.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110548/Gallup-Presidential-Election-TrialHeat-Trends-19362004.aspx

2000

lrm670iomuulip1pxjz8xq.gif


2004

wqvkkt2m4eo_dzz_yrqpyg.gif


2008

Here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
The Lamonster said:
Woah, imagine if Obama was 7 points down right now, like Kerry was in Sept.

HopeGAF would be freaking out :lol
Click to expand...
We did kind of have an aneurysm during McCain's bounce to +5 after the convention. (Okay, I did.)
 
T

thefit

Member
The Lamonster said:
Attn. Older & Seasoned PoliGaffers:


Were things looking this good for the Democrat in late September in the 2000 and 2004 elections?

(I'm 24 and I've always been interested in politics, but I didn't really follow the polls or pay attention to the daily horse race until now)

Basically, at this point do you guys think Obama is gonna win?
Click to expand...

I don't remember, but my general reaction was that Kerry was not very liked by the Dems more specifcally he didn't fight back the Rove dirt machine the way Obama has. Example, the quick responce to that swift boat jerk was brilliant, he got so discredited that he litterally disapeared and the other books published against Obama have gone compltely unoticed. I have to say that the big difference this time around is the huge online grassroots and radio. Those key things have been educating people to the ugly trutch about the right for a good 4 years now that and we have a generation that has grown up under a very ugly government tha reflects nothing of what they have learned in their history books.
 
K

kevm3

Member
It's hard to believe that only in about one month's time that we will get some new leadership in the white house. After 8 years, we finally get something new... or something old. Just as long as Obama and Biden hold steady, avoid big mistakes and finish off these debates strong, we'll be good.

If Palin bombs the debate and is a big reason for McCain losing, I will forever dub her superwoman and proclaim her a genuine American hero! Please fail for me now, baby!
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
maximum360 said:
I wonder how that "Sara Palin won't do many interviews until the media pays her due deference" is working out for them. McCain managed to go from having the media as his "base" to pissing off the media. That takes true talent.
Click to expand...

Yup. Yup. I think that's the second biggest mistake they made with Palin (the first mistake was picking her VP in the first place).

If they let Palin out in the wild, the public would get desensitized to her gaffes and she would probably get more confident handing tough questions. But now she's still a gaffe machine and she's a nervous wreck to boot.

Another example, Biden is also a gaffe machine. But his positives he brings outweigh the gaffes.

That said... it may be possible that Palin is so ignorant on national and foreign policy issues that her gaffes have nuclear consequences. Most of Biden's gaffes relate to him being too blunt or saying something off message, but nothing that really makes you question his competency. Palin's gaffes on the other hand make you question whether she's smarter than a 5th grader.

So I don't know... asking the media to pay "deference" to Palin may have been a mistake. But I think it's just that Palin is a losing hand to begin with. There just isn't much you can do with her in such a short period of time. McCain should have never picked her.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Btw, does anyone know the exact format of the VP debate?

Is there lecterns? How long are each responses? Is there zero interactions between the candidates? Can the moderator ask any follow-up questions?

Is this basically like a 2004 Kerry/Bush debate, where it's not really a debate but a series of Q&A on the same stage?
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
kevm3 said:
It's hard to believe that only in about one month's time that we will get some new leadership in the white house. After 8 years, we finally get something new... or something old. Just as long as Obama and Biden hold steady, avoid big mistakes and finish off these debates strong, we'll be good.

If Palin bombs the debate and is a big reason for McCain losing, I will forever dub her superwoman and proclaim her a genuine American hero! Please fail for me now, baby!
Click to expand...
It's closer to 3 months (1/20/09).
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
kevm3 said:
It's hard to believe that only in about one month's time that we will get some new leadership in the white house. After 8 years, we finally get something new... or something old. Just as long as Obama and Biden hold steady, avoid big mistakes and finish off these debates strong, we'll be good.

If Palin bombs the debate and is a big reason for McCain losing, I will forever dub her superwoman and proclaim her a genuine American hero! Please fail for me now, baby!
Click to expand...

McCain is doing everything he can to protect America from his terrible party. Now that's a true maverick.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
numble said:
Party trends?
Click to expand...

For this year:

Code: 
Dem	 207,900 
Ind	 148,293 
GOP	 33,527 
Lib	 1,374
	
Total	 391,094
Side note: while blacks made up 20% of registered voters at the start of the year, they make up 33% of new registrations in 2008. (Pushing the total to 21%.)
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
The NY Times is still held as the beacon of newspaper journalism. Tough shit for the GOP. Shouldn't have picked a fight.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Wow, I've been watching some of the primary debates again. Hilary was pretty unlikeable with some of her attacks as soon as she lost Iowa. I can see how she lost some folks. The NH debate in particular was pretty awkward..
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
Deus Ex Machina said:
Even in the pouring rain - Obama/Biden pics

r4136019414.jpg

In pouring rain, Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) (L) and his vice presidential running mate Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) wave to supporters during a campaign rally at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r2236082658.jpg

Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) (L) and his vice presidential running mate Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) shake hands on stage during a rain shower at a campaign rally at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia, September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r368707940.jpg

Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) speaks during a campaign rally in the rain at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia, September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r2136846569.jpg

Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) speaks during a campaign rally in the rain at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r234636207.jpg

In pouring rain, Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) waves to supporters during a campaign rally at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia, September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r3238265192.jpg

Supporters of Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) listen to his speech during a downpour during a campaign rally at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)

r2519079503.jpg

Supporters of Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) cheer as the rain pours down during a campaign rally at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia, September 27, 2008. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
(USA)
Click to expand...
Few more pics

28obama.5331.jpg


neyplf.jpg


ng6g61.jpg


vzy0j8.jpg


20ayrg2.jpg
 
N

numble

Member
Cloudy said:
Wow, I've been watching some of the primary debates again. Hilary was pretty unlikeable with some of her attacks as soon as she lost Iowa. I can see how she lost some folks. The NH debate in particular was pretty awkward..
Click to expand...
I believe Obama actually lost more people at the NH debate.
 
K

KRS7

Member
Sarah Palin may never have even conducted trade missions to Russia.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/the-odd-lies--6.html

Andrew Sullivan said:
By now, the pattern is familiar. Palin responds to a question she fears reveals something she wants to conceal and lies:

COURIC: Have you ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?

PALIN: We have trade missions back and forth. We -- we do -- it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where -- where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is -- from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there.​

There is no evidence of her conducting any trade missions with Russia:

I spent some time on the Governor's Web site seeking more details about her trade negotiations with Russia. There's a press release about Gov. Palin's meeting with a trade mission from the Yukon, but nothing about Russia anywhere in the archives.​

And the second pattern: a refusal to respond to the press seeking factual information:

When asked for examples of trade missions with Russia that have taken place under Palin's watch, gubernatorial spokeswoman Kate Morgan refused to answer the question. Morgan said she could not legally discuss any trade missions with me because she's a state employee and I had first heard this claim through the Couric interview, which was part of Palin's campaign for the vice-presidency.​

Just don't ask Goldfarb. He'll leak your question to his stenographer, the Washington Post's Howie Kurtz.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
artredis1980 said:
USA Today/Gallup Debate poll:

Obama wins 46%
McCain 34%


Which candidate did you think had best proposals to fix the country?

Obama 52%
McCain 35%


http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/09/usatgallup-poll.html
Click to expand...


Wow, that's dangerous for McShame. I personally think the debate was a draw but Obama looked more presidential. Maybe this is where the media narrative can shape opinions?

As for the proposals, I think Obama's closing about improving America's world-standing reached people. Expect a Rev. Wright commercial soon is all I can say...
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
It really does seem like people were just looking for anything to make them feel safe about Obama, and they found it on the debate.

I expect a larger than usual bump for Obama as the people leaning for Obama but was on the fence for one reason or another comes home to roost and are forced to make a choice now.

It also further confirms my suspicion, and many others that have said that this election was about Obama. McCain is essentially a Not-Obama candidate right now, the same way Kerry was Not-Bush.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Also, McCain turning on the media was a bad idea. Normally they try to stay even but he pissed them off. I'm sure they also feel justified cos Obama/Biden is clearly the best choice and Palin is a disaster..

Check out this thinly-veiled AP hit-piece on Yahoo's front page:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_leadership_styles_analysis

:lol

edit: I looked up the writer and she's been accused for being in the tank for McCain several times before. This cannot be good :lol

http://www.google.com/search?client...nnel=s&hl=en&q=Liz+Sidoti+&btnG=Google+Search
 
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