Support NeoGAF

[CharlieDigital]

Where are JayDubya and all the other pro-McCain gaffers? I would like to hear what they have about the current situation.

They've been absent from these threads almost entirely. Guess whether a woman should have the right to choose to abort an embryo is far more important than you know, the entire US economy (and a good part of the world's as well -- check out what the Nikkei is doing right about now).

 

[ronito]

They've been absent from these threads almost entirely. Guess whether a woman should have the right to choose to abort an embryo is far more important than you know, the entire US economy (and a good part of the world's as well -- check out what the Nikkei is doing right about now).

Nah. I think they're playing it smart. Can you imagine it if someone came in PoliGAF right now and said "free market" ?

 

[Sharp]

I understand almost nothing about economics, but from everything I've seen and read recently, doesn't the bailout HAVE to happen in some form? Isn't the current debate simply about in what form the bailout passes, not whether or not it should, because if it doesn't we're facing all-out economic catastrophe?

Not if you're a libertarian and/or a hardcore fiscal conservative, in which case you believe that the banks should die and the free hand will fix everything, more or less (look at fatwallet.com for a concentrated mass of people like this). Which in the long term is true, only the short term may be somewhat catastrophic.

 

[giga]

free market!

 

[StoOgE]

Well that is awesome that it will be aired no matter what. I'm sure the University that hosts it and the state it is in will be pissed if McCain doesn't show up. Didn't they say that McCain's absence would cost them upwards of 5.5 million dollars or something?

I'll be thrilled if it doesnt happen.

90 minutes of Lehrer + Obama = Obama getting tough fair questions and no gotcha bullshit. Obama with a near 100 million person audience all to himself = game changer.

 

[ronito]

free market!

you! die in a fire!

 

[Zeliard]

Don't candidates typically block out quite a bit of time for debate prep? Presuming McCain is foregoing that in favor of this economic savior pantomime act, he's going to be unprepared if he does in fact show up.

I guess they could squeeze in some prep sessions in downtime when McCain isn't doing this financial charade, but doesn't he need that spare time for naps etc? If he does show up he's either going to show up poorly prepped or very very tired.

I don't really see him not showing up. He's shot himself in the foot, regardless - if he shows up and there was no deal made, then his entire campaign suspension stunt will look even more ridiculous and pointless. He will also be less prepared than he would have been had he remained consistent and studied properly, and he wouldn't have pissed off Letterman. That might seem trivial, but Letterman does get a lot of viewers, and his lambasting of McCain last night made the rounds today and got some solid airplay.

If he doesn't show up, and even if a deal does go through, Obama will have the stage to himself and a ton of viewers watching. It looks like a lose-lose for McCain, though I think the latter would be worse for him. I really don't see how he can give Obama free reign tomorrow night to do as he pleases with so many people watching him solely.

 

[AniHawk]

I'll be thrilled if it doesnt happen.

90 minutes of Lehrer + Obama = Obama getting tough fair questions and no gotcha bullshit. Obama with a near 100 million person audience all to himself = game changer.

While McCain sits in Washington, fixing the economy, Obama stands at a podium in front of a camera. To appear on television.

That's not the kind of change we need.

 

[StoOgE]

Nah. I think they're playing it smart. Can you imagine it if someone came in PoliGAF right now and said "free market" ?

For one thing, my reaction would probably be the last thing I posted for a few weeks.

 

[The Lamonster]

Haven't seen it posted yet (but this thread moves fast) :

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=cb847615-d010-4578-9882-31f2ea071666

Missouri:

McCain 48
Obama 46

Obama's got MO in the bag if those numbers are true for SUSA, IMO.

Holy shit I called it earlier today. MO will turn blue!

That's HUGE if Obama is closing the gap in Missouri.

:lol They don't even need MO at this point!

Lamonster probably has better insight to this, but I think Obama is doing alot better than Kerry in urban areas, but he is doing alot worse in rual areas here. That being said, I think there's 6 counties that if Obama carries, he could win the state with just those.

Obv. you're including STL and KC counties but what other ones if I may ask?

 

[CharlieDigital]

I understand almost nothing about economics, but from everything I've seen and read recently, doesn't the bailout HAVE to happen in some form? Isn't the current debate simply about in what form the bailout passes, not whether or not it should, because if it doesn't we're facing all-out economic catastrophe?

I'm no economist either, but you simply need to understand the basics of how businesses operate in our economy. Take a car dealership for example. It has to pay its employees and pay the day to day expenses like the utilities, regardless of whether they make a sale or not. They have to pay interest on the loans that they take to purchase their inventory. They have to have loans to purchase inventory to begin with.

Or take a consulting company. They bill their clients, but they need to make payroll and pay for operating expenses, rent, and what not. If they don't have the cash to do so, they need to take a short term loan to keep the business operating.

Many businesses are already strained due to the current economic environment; all of the shit happening now is basically making it worse.

The current situation seems to be one where we're heading into a scenario where money simply isn't available for business to operate; it'll literally seize up the entire economic system and there will be massive layoffs and many businesses will fail. Something needs to pass to ease up the credit market.

 

[Door2Dawn]

You guys are delusional if you think McCain will not attend to the debate.

 

[StoOgE]

While McCain sits in Washington, fixing the economy, Obama stands at a podium in front of a camera. To appear on television.

That's not the kind of change we need.

No, by tommorow the world will see this for what it is. McCain is going to get more shit for this deal collapsing than he could ever imagine.

When the economy is down 300 points tommorow the blame is going to find itself squarely on McCains shoulders.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Hey uh, has anyone ordered from the Obama store? I placed a small $22 order on the 17th and it's still processing. It hasn't even shipped yet. What the hell?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

You guys are delusional if you think McCain will not attend to the debate.

http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/common/c_cd.jsp?conDetailID=645080&z=1222404637762

This contract will settle (expire) at 100 ($10.00) if the first Presidential Debate between Barack Obama and John McCain takes place live and in person, as scheduled at 9:00pm ET on Friday September 26th 2008.

The contract will settle (expire) at 0 ($0.00) if the first Presidential Debate between Barack Obama and John McCain DOES NOT take place live and in person, as scheduled at 9:00pm ET on Friday September 26th 2008.

Expiry will be based on official announcements from the Obama and McCain campaigns, as reported by three independent and reliable media sources.

For this contract to expire at 100 both candidates must appear on stage in person.

This contract will expire at 0 if the following (includes, but is not limited to) occurs:

* The debate is postponed to another date
* The debate is cancelled
* The debate is moved to another location
* A presidential candidates fails to show for the debate
* A presidential candidates takes part in the debate by video conference
* Someone else is sent to debate in place of a presidential candidate

Due to the nature of this contract please also see Contract Rule 1.7 Unforeseen Circumstances.

The Exchange reserves the right to invoke Contract Rule 1.8 (Time Protection) if deemed appropriate.

Any changes to the result after the contract has expired will not be taken into account - Exchange Rule 1.4

Please contact the exchange by emailing help@intrade.com if you have any questions regarding this contract before you place a trade.​

Currently trading at 41.1 (ie not very likely)

 

[StoOgE]

Hey uh, has anyone ordered from the Obama store? I placed a small $22 order on the 17th and it's still processing. It hasn't even shipped yet. What the hell?

It took me like a month to get a hat back in December.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Hey uh, has anyone ordered from the Obama store? I placed a small $22 order on the 17th and it's still processing. It hasn't even shipped yet. What the hell?

I'm still waiting for the bumper sticker that was supposed to come with my donation.

 

[AniHawk]

You guys are delusional if you think McCain will not attend to the debate.

Yeah, I don't think he's not showing up. He's probably been prepping ever since he got to one of his homes.

 

[The Lamonster]

Hey uh, has anyone ordered from the Obama store? I placed a small $22 order on the 17th and it's still processing. It hasn't even shipped yet. What the hell?

Happened to me too. Give it time.

 

[Door2Dawn]

No, by tommorow the world will see this for what it is. McCain is going to get more shit for this deal collapsing than he could ever imagine.

When the economy is down 300 points tommorow the blame is going to find itself squarely on McCains shoulders.

:lol

 

[devilhawk]

JayDub is not pro-McCain and is probably ecstatic this bailout isn't happening.

I think most conservatives have been reluctant about the whole bailout idea from the beginning. So was a lot of PoliGAF, but changed their tune - being blind followers. Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

To be fair, I think this election has kind of presented free-market Gaffers with the options of "Really Do Not Want" (Obama) and "Do Not Want" (McCain), which kind of puts them in the position of being forced to support a candidate that doesn't really fit their ideology just for the sake of not supporting a candidate that is even farther away from them.

Hell, I'm a free-market Gaffer who doesn't really like either candidate and would LIKE to be able to vote McCain as a vote of confidence in the free-market but is unable to do so because McCain has A) proven that he couldn't do anything about economic difficulties both in previous statements and in what has gone down today and B) picked a running mate that I don't really want anywhere near the White House (oh, another right-wing fundamentalist who, while she may technically have more executive experience than Obama, seems to, according to the facts of her past and the level of incompetence she's displayed in interviews and speeches, have no qualification? Great pick there, John).

I don't know. I can't even vote for Babar because he's a total douchebag. I'm a man without a candidate.

 

[Door2Dawn]

I think most conservatives have been reluctant about the whole bailout idea from the beginning. So was a lot of PoliGAF, but changed their tune - being blind followers. Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

If you don't like it then go somewhere else.

Quit crying about it and do something.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yah, McCain's still been doing his debate prep, just not labeled as such on the schedule. Obama's schedule was also messed up by Bush requesting the meeting.

That would be my guess too. But I think we're giving too much credit to the McCain crew now.

 

[StoOgE]

I think most conservatives have been reluctant about the whole bailout idea from the beginning. So was a lot of PoliGAF, but changed their tune - being blind followers. Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

Actually all of those were from me and I'm a chartered financial analyst and am a registered securities principle, so I should probably be taken more seriously than anyone else on the forum.

I just happened to be really pissed right now.

 

[Ether_Snake]

OK, that got me to donate more. :lol

I thought you were Canadian! :lol

 

[Xisiqomelir]

If you don't like it then go somewhere else.

What kind of attitude is this? "I don't support rewarding incompetence with a taxpayer safety net" is a very reasonable position, and worthwhile discussions can be had.

 

[speculawyer]

While McCain sits in Washington, fixing the economy, Obama stands at a podium in front of a camera. To appear on television.

That's not the kind of change we need.

Nobody would believe that. Hell, the House GOPers called off a meeting on the bill . . . why isn't POWman getting them to work on it?

Obama's team should get a team to follow McCain and see what he's doing tomorrow night if he doesn't show up to the debate (which I think he will).

 

[Hellsing321]

From what I've read, it seems this whole thing happened because McCain won't fucking tell us where he stand on the bailout. If he had said to Boehner "Get your fucking asses in line and agree to this compromise" he actually could have been a hero. Instead he said nothing and now here we are.

 

[Jonm1010]

I felt like tonight was a good night to donate $50 to his campaign. So I donated $50, just wanted everyone to know.

 

[Sharp]

I think most conservatives have been reluctant about the whole bailout idea from the beginning. So was a lot of PoliGAF, but changed their tune - being blind followers. Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

Reluctant? Absolutely. Anyone who isn't reluctant to spend this kind of money on anything is an idiot. But ultimately it's not really feasible to just sit back and do nothing in this case, not with banks failing left and right. If you have a better suggestion for how to handle this in the short term I'd love to hear it, because frankly nearly anything that worked would be better at this point.

 

[Door2Dawn]

What kind of attitude is this? "I don't support rewarding incompetence with a taxpayer safety net" is a very reasonable position, and worthwhile discussions can be had.

" Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

Complaining about that stuff is meaningless,either you suck it up and deal with it,or go somewhere else. A lot of people are angry at this whole situation,so I don't see a problem with throwing an occasional "fuck you" or "shitty horse cock penis fuck".

 

[Incognito]

WASHINGTON — The day began with an agreement that Washington hoped would end the financial crisis that has gripped the nation. It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, urgent warnings from the president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support.

“If money isn’t loosened up, this sucker could go down,” President Bush declared Thursday as he watched the $700 billion bailout package fall apart before his eyes, according to one person in the room.

It was an implosion that spilled out from behind closed doors into public view in a way rarely seen in Washington.

Talks implode

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Talks implode

Did King Hank seriously fall on bended knee before Pelosi? o.0

D2D: Gotcha. I guess we'll see if he posts again.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT HE REALLY KNELT AND BEGGED FOR FORGIVENESS

In the Roosevelt Room of the White House after the session, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, not to withdraw her party's support for the package over what Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.

 

[The Chosen One]

McCain will be there no question. The question is will a deal be made by then. I'm actually hoping there isn't a deal by tomorrow night (looking fairly likely right now). It will mean McCain will look totally fake when he shows up to the debate because he foolishly drew a line in the sand basically saying, "Deal, I'll be there, No Deal, I won't be there." When he shows up tomorrow with no deal in place he's going to look so transparent.

Like I said a few pages back, I think the Dems will stall the deal tomorrow. They wanted to rush through the bill today to show McCain had nothing to do with it but they'll slow it down tomorrow so McCain can't ride into the debates on a white horse.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Talks implode

If credit becomes completely restricted and things blow up, the economy will have huge huge problems. This will not be good for McCain lol.

 

[StoOgE]

What kind of attitude is this? "I don't support rewarding incompetence with a taxpayer safety net" is a very reasonable position, and worthwhile discussions can be had.

No one likes supporting the idiots who got us here, but the problem is the lifeblood of this economy runs through them.. if the credit markets dry up (very likely) the entire economy grinds to a hault.

We are hurting ourselves as much as we are punishing them by not doing this bailout.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I think most conservatives have been reluctant about the whole bailout idea from the beginning. So was a lot of PoliGAF, but changed their tune - being blind followers. Really hard to take anyone seriously when their criticisms of not doing the bailout include "fuck you," stubby armed," giant vag," and "selfish asshole." But please continue.

To be fair, that was one guy.

And I don't think anyone is enthusiastic about the bail out; I see it as a nasty medicine that'll knock me out, make me throw up, and give me a headache, but it'll kill this tumor that's trying to eat me alive.

 

[JCX]

Tonight I went to a concert at my school tonight called iVote that featured speakers for Obama and McCain as well as performances by Brand New and Nas.

It was funny when the pro-McCain person came out because he was shot down during war and also a POW (I was thinking "Is McCain here?"). When he said he supports McCain he got Booed (although there were a few cheers).

In contrast, the Obama speaker was much more confident and charismatic and also got a lot of cheers and applause (this is a college campus of course). Obama even had a video message (personalized to a small extent to our school) after the speaker. Student volunteers were handing out Obama posters during and before the concert. It was the way that the student Obama supporters were there that was so impressive and makes me believe that Michigan will be blue again this year.

of course Nas, being Nas, got political. He asked to hear all the McCain supporters (a lot of people booed). Then he said "thats what I thought". Next he asked for Obama supporters and it got crazy loud.

I enjoyed the concert.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only feasible option aside from bailing out the credit industry for the government to assume the responsibility directly?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

No one likes supporting the idiots who got us here, but the problem is the lifeblood of this economy runs through them.. if the credit markets dry up (very likely) the entire economy grinds to a hault.

We are hurting ourselves as much as we are punishing them by not doing this bailout.

Dude, I am on team "let's work something out". I thought D2D was telling Devilhawk to just GTFO without hearing his side, but now I realize he was just commenting about oversensitivity to harsh language.

 

[devilhawk]

While McCain sits in Washington, fixing the economy, Obama stands at a podium in front of a camera. To appear on television.

That's not the kind of change we need.

Decent point. If McCain doesn't show up, I do think it will benefit Obama but I don't think McCain's campaign implodes.

What kind of attitude is this? "I don't support rewarding incompetence with a taxpayer safety net" is a very reasonable position, and worthwhile discussions can be had.

Thank you. The few conservatives and independents on GAF get overwhelmed when 1/2 the page is useless pro-Obama rhetoric (meaning for example "Oh man Maddow just pwned McCain lolol). I don't disagree with the bailout but I feel it must come with provisions out the ass that guarantee the tax payer or else no deal. A lot of conservatives here hate what Bush has done specifically with the economic bailouts. It is kind of a damned if you do or don't situation. I think we need to plan for the best possible deal before just throwing 700 billion at private companies.

 

[Macam]

Hey uh, has anyone ordered from the Obama store? I placed a small $22 order on the 17th and it's still processing. It hasn't even shipped yet. What the hell?

Yeah, tell me about it. I got a shirt I ordered after about a week and a half, but that was only half of the order. The other item was backordered and has yet to even ship, let alone offer any ETA, and it's been nearly a month. Their customer service also never picks up and never calls back. Not too happy about that honestly.

Any Austin GAFFers up for a watch party?

I'm heading to the Alamo Drafthouse on South Lamar at 7pm as they're hosting a debate party there -- I'd pass along the link from Obama's site but they're currently doing maintenance. If you're interested, drop me a PM and we'll meet up. The first pitcher of beer is on me.

If and when McCain shows up, I'll be tossing down a drink every time he either blatantly lies or says "my friends"...which is probably good considering that I'll be registering voters at ACL on Saturday and, given how much of a clusterfuck that event is, I'll probably hope I'll still have some alcohol left in me by then.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Holy shit I called it earlier today. MO will turn blue!

:lol They don't even need MO at this point!

That's the whole point! If Obama has MO deadlocked, and Virginia, and North Carolina, and Florida, and Ohio...well, it's going to be rough for McCain. Michigan and Pennsylvania are drifting away. It's getting ugly for McCain on the map.

Which is why he's throwing such a complete fit right now.

 

[grandjedi6]

Talks implode

“I didn’t know you were Catholic,” Ms. Pelosi said, a wry reference to Mr. Paulson’s kneeling, according to someone who observed the exchange. She went on: “It’s not me blowing this up, it’s the Republicans.”

Mr. Paulson sighed. “I know. I know.”

It was the very outcome the White House had said it intended to avoid, with partisan presidential politics appearing to trample what had been exceedingly delicate Congressional negotiations



House republicans fucking things up again? McCain going to the white house actually did mess with everything like predicted? Seems like a normal day in Washington to me.

 

[StoOgE]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only feasible option aside from bailing out the credit industry for the government to assume the responsibility directly?

The only other feasible option it to let it sort itself out from here and potentially continue bailing out companies as they fall.

This deal was designed to treat the disease and not just the symptoms (as we have been doing).

 

[Cloudy]

McCain will be there no question. The question is will a deal be made by then. I'm actually hoping there isn't a deal by tomorrow night (looking fairly likely right now). It will mean McCain will look totally fake when he shows up to the debate because he foolishly drew a line in the sand basically saying, "Deal, I'll be there, No Deal, I won't be there." When he shows up tomorrow with no deal in place he's going to look so transparent.

Like I said a few pages back, I think the Dems will stall the deal tomorrow. They wanted to rush through the bill today to show McCain had nothing to do with it but they'll slow it down tomorrow so McCain can't ride into the debates on a white horse.

Seriously, they better not let it pass tomorrow. Make McCain look like a jackass. I just hope it's not a meltdown in the market on Monday :\

 

[AniHawk]

Did King Hank seriously fall on bended knee before Pelosi? o.0

D2D: Gotcha. I guess we'll see if he posts again.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT HE REALLY KNELT AND BEGGED FOR FORGIVENESS

...

Holy shit.

This is gonna all be a movie some day if movies still exist in our future.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Obv. you're including STL and KC counties but what other ones if I may ask?

Boone (register and turnout students) , Clay, the KC and STL suburb counties, running up the score in KC and STL, the northern rural counties where there is opportunity (midwestern rather than southern), etc. Look at the McCaskill map here:

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/MO/S/01/map.html

And overlay Obama's overall general approach to the election.

 

[Sharp]

In some form, the bill should be passed as soon as possible, presidential politics or no. If they can get a version worked out that everyone approves of, delaying it just to spite McCain would be ridiculous.