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[Chiggs]

No seriously, if McCain wins after all this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

Not to be such a downer, but it doesn't matter who wins this, because they're fucked the minute they take over. McCain should probably just drop out now and save some face, because he and his little helper will be embarassed if they take the reigns.

And Obama, he's just going to be pushed into a gauntlet that spans several miles.

 

[AniHawk]

More Missouri Madness

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...3368120E9B53BDC1862574D0000D8EF4?OpenDocument

Missouri :

R2K, this week, 800 LV:

McCain 47
Obama 46

It's sooo nice to see this bellwether state swing back into contention after McCain and Palin really tried to put it away right after the convention with multiple stops there.

SUSA + R2K showing this being close is really great. Crossing my fingers that they're underestimating the black population.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Not to be such a downer, but it doesn't matter who wins this, because they're fucked the minute they take over.

But atleast we can say we tried. Electing Mccain is like just having the Lions hand the ball off to the Patriots from the first play of the game.

 

[Hitokage]

More Missouri Madness

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...3368120E9B53BDC1862574D0000D8EF4?OpenDocument

Missouri :

R2K, this week, 800 LV:

McCain 47
Obama 46

It's sooo nice to see this bellwether state swing back into contention after McCain and Palin really tried to put it away right after the convention with multiple stops there.

 

[Nicodimas]

Politicians and bankers make these messes. Trusting in a industry that produces no real tangible items..but numbers and plays with them, which then causes whole industries to crash accidently. I find this situation nuts. I hate the numbers game at my work and on the grand scale it's bullshit and manipulated to all hell.

 

[Chiggs]

But atleast we can say we tried. Electing Mccain is like just having the Lions hand the ball off to the Patriots from the first play of the game.

Well, I guess we see how America functions with a greater mix of socialism, because that's clearly the way it's going. And to be fair, it probably deserves a shot. I cannot believe I just wrote that, but it is what it is.

Looking at some of my previous pro-McCain posts in this thread is downright amusing in light of recent events. Good Christ...so this is what it feels like when the bottom falls out. Actually, I know it fairly well having watched my Rockies be obliterated by the Sox in last year's Series. Thank God for relatable sports comparisons!

Just curious: How many of you are serious investors? I see a real lack of "freaking out" in this thread and, maybe I'm being childish here, I don't get it. Surely you have money in the pot? I fear tomorrow will be ugly.

 

[kevm3]

Not to be such a downer, but it doesn't matter who wins this, because they're fucked the minute they take over. McCain should probably just drop out now and save some face, because he and his little helper will be embarassed if they take the reigns.

And Obama, he's just going to be pushed into a gauntlet that spans several miles.

What's disgusting is that instead of investing in education, technology, etc., we're going to be put even further behind. But the severity of this thing will depend on who we elect. It may be bad no matter how takes office... but just how bad it gets will depend on who we elect.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

:lol

Well, I guess we see how America functions with a greater mix of socialism, because that's clearly the way it's going. And to be fair, it probably deserves a shot. I cannot believe I just wrote that, but it is what it is.

Looking at some of my previous pro-McCain posts in this thread is downright amusing in light of recent events. Good Christ...so this is what it feels like when the bottom falls out. Actually, I know it fairly well having watched my Rockies be obliterated the Sox in last year's Series. Thank God for relatable sports comparisons!

Just curious: How many of you are serious investors? I see a real lack of "freaking out" in this thread and, maybe because I'm being childish here, but I don't get it. Surely you have money in the pot? I fear tomorrow will be ugly.

Granted, I'm thinking about my 401k, but I've been so immersed in this presidential debate and the happenings of today that I haven't really given proper thought to what the bloodbath could potentially be later on this morning. When I wake up, look at the PC screen and have to say AW FUCK!, then it'll hit me in full force.

 

[thefit]

Just caught up again on the thread.





No seriously, if McCain wins after all this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

They might pull something. Good thing we have plenty of civil right in this country to protect us..oh whait.

Posse Comitatus Act

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states, their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act.

The Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act substantially limit the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement.

Recent legislative events

HR5122 also known as the John Warner Defense Authorization Act was signed by the president on Oct 17, 2006 John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007. Section 1076 Text of Hr5122 is titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies". Removing the legalese from the text, and combining multiple sentences, it provides that: The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines hinders the execution of laws or deprives people of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. The actual text is on page 322-323 of the legislation. As of 2008, these changes were repealed, changing the text of the law back to the original 1807 wording, under Public Law 110-181 (H.R. 4986, Section 1068,) however in signing H.R. 4986 into law President Bush attached a signing statement which indicated that the Executive Branch did not feel bound by the changes enacted by the repeal.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/index.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

Wednesday Sept. 24, 2008 12:26 EDT
Why is a U.S. Army brigade being assigned to the "Homeland"?


Several bloggers today have pointed to this obviously disturbing article from Army Times, which announces that "beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the [1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division] will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North" -- "the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities." The article details:

They'll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it.

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack. . . .

The 1st BCT's soldiers also will learn how to use "the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded," 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

 

[devilhawk]

I'll take the dotcom bubble over anything we're going through now, wouldn't you? No market is perfect; every market will have its ups and downs. We recovered gracefully from the dotcom bubble (not nearly as bad as some would have you believe) and we are squarely in the age of the Internet, Web 2.0, and Web 3.0 even. I ask you, seriously: what bubble? Compared to the mess we're in? That was nothing; I'll trade for it any day.

So you are taking a mulligan? Equating to your example, I am guessing next decade there will be houses and banks. They may not be called Home 2.0 or Citi 3.0 but I'm fairly sure your ATM will work just fine.

Right, go ahead and make an exception. Yeah, that makes any argument easy to win if you can take a mulligan on any point you want to contend. Don't make me laugh; it's pathetic. Like it or not, Bush got us into Iraq, which will go down as a huge blunder and general clusterfuck.

You seem to think I am fighting you personally. I, we, know that Bush has been a terrible idiot. I was simply stating that Clinton's terms weren't a bunch of singing hippies drinking coke with flowers in their hair. Come off the soap box, you don't have to educate me on the terribleness of the Iraq war.

It's not about "economic boom". It's about safe, stable growth; that's what you free-marketers don't get. This is what proper regulation applies to an economy. An "economic boom" is exactly what we don't want. Do you get it now? Regulation is not about causing growth; it's about controlling growth and making sure that it's not unchecked and uncontrolled. In biological terms, we would call an "economic boom" a cancerous tumor.

So the dot-com mulligan apply here too? Anyways, your views of regulation are far too simplistic. I have never once argued against the ideals of regulation.

 

[Chiggs]

They might pull something. Good thing we have plenty of civil right in this country to protect us..oh whait.

Posse Comitatus Act





Recent legislative events





http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/index.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

You're almost making it seem like something is going down. :lol

Then again, I wouldn't be surprised. Not at all. But wait, what about all those gun owners out there?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Well, I guess we see how America functions with a greater mix of socialism, because that's clearly the way it's going. And to be fair, it probably deserves a shot. I cannot believe I just wrote that, but it is what it is.

Give Mark Rosenfelder a read:

http://zompist.com/libertos.html
http://zompist.com/richtax.htm
http://zompist.com/welfare.html

Just curious: How many of you are serious investors? I see a real lack of "freaking out" in this thread and, maybe I'm being childish here, I don't get it. Surely you have money in the pot? I fear tomorrow will be ugly.

I am freaked-the-fuck-out. Are you kidding me? Over $50k invested in mutual funds and retirement funds. My mother lost like $10k of her 401k value. My brother in law, who works for AIG, isn't getting the promotion he was supposed to get. My aunt who worked for Lehman is out of a job and lost a massive chunk of her 401k and who knows what's going to happen to her pension.

Meanwhile, my wife and I purchased a new home last year (30 year fixed), thinking that the market was close to bottoming while in fact, we weren't even close.

My only hope now is to take the long view on things and hope that things all work out by the time I'm ready to retire. For my mom and aunt? Both are close to retirement...I'm feeling really down for both of them, especially my aunt who worked so fucking hard at Lehman and put up with so much shit to get to pension eligibility. Plus, she's putting two (ungrateful) kids through college.

These are truly fucked up times man.

 

[AniHawk]

They might pull something. Good thing we have plenty of civil right in this country to protect us..oh whait.

Posse Comitatus Act





Recent legislative events





http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/index.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

 

[Mandark]

My most recent observation is how once a media narrative is set it is so very difficult to dislodge. I think Biden and Mccain show off this dynamic pretty well. When Biden commits a gaffe it's generally portrayed as goofy Joe Biden. When Mccain commits one they are often termed straight talk or just a mistake.

There's a quote in Audacity of Hope about how Hillary is always "calculating" while McCain is always a "maverick", regardless of what they're actually doing.

Remember that story about some Republican gaffe where the very first sentence called it "Biden-like" even though he had nothing to do with the story? Once someone's character within the narrative is established it becomes scarily self-reinforcing.

 

[thefit]

You're almost making it seem like something is going down. :lol

Then again, I wouldn't be surprised. Not at all. But wait, what about all those gun owners out there?

I don't get it, that helps?

 

[aznpxdd]

What time is the debate?

 

[Duke Togo]

Eye catching.

 

[Chiggs]

Give Mark Rosenfelder a read:

http://zompist.com/libertos.html
http://zompist.com/richtax.htm
http://zompist.com/welfare.html

Will do.

These are truly fucked up times man.

Indeed they are.

I don't get it, that helps?

I'm just being a rambling loon.

 

[Macam]

As far as the peaceful part? Clinton wasn't a pacifist by any stretch and used Iraq as a diversion for purely political gain. Bush didn't start this whole terrorism thing. This would have happened no matter who the president was. Iraq is an obvious exception.

While I don't have much qualms with much of your post (even if it's relatively exaggerated in parts), claiming Clinton used Iraq solely as a diversion for purely political gain is just flat wrong.

 

[mckmas8808]

More Missouri Madness

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...3368120E9B53BDC1862574D0000D8EF4?OpenDocument

Missouri :

R2K, this week, 800 LV:

McCain 47
Obama 46

It's sooo nice to see this bellwether state swing back into contention after McCain and Palin really tried to put it away right after the convention with multiple stops there.

Missouri is back into action.

 

[thefit]

Give Mark Rosenfelder a read:

http://zompist.com/libertos.html
http://zompist.com/richtax.htm
http://zompist.com/welfare.html



I am freaked-the-fuck-out. Are you kidding me? Over $50k invested in mutual funds and retirement funds. My mother lost like $10k of her 401k value. My brother in law, who works for AIG, isn't getting the promotion he was supposed to get. My aunt who worked for Lehman is out of a job and lost a massive chunk of her 401k and who knows what's going to happen to her pension.

Meanwhile, my wife and I purchased a new home last year (30 year fixed), thinking that the market was close to bottoming while in fact, we weren't even close.

My only hope now is to take the long view on things and hope that things all work out by the time I'm ready to retire. For my mom and aunt? Both are close to retirement...I'm feeling really down for both of them, especially my aunt who worked so fucking hard at Lehman and put up with so much shit to get to pension eligibility. Plus, she's putting two (ungrateful) kids through college.

These are truly fucked up times man.

Everyone is freaked out I catch some of what they are saying, in the halls and elevators things like " I'm keeping myself upbeat", and "We got shredders?", "No, we have some company that those that for us." "Fuck!" Been in downtown LA all week and it is gloom and doom down there.

I'm just being a rambling loon:lol .

Me too!

 

[Chiggs]

Eye catching.

So, let's say a deal goes through, and everything is saved just in the nick of time...I don't want to see any back-patting from anyone in Washington. I don't think I could stomach it.

 

[Cyan]

Just curious: How many of you are serious investors? I see a real lack of "freaking out" in this thread and, maybe I'm being childish here, I don't get it. Surely you have money in the pot? I fear tomorrow will be ugly.

It will be ugly (I've already lost quite a bit on paper), but I'm almost desensitized to it now. And in any case, given that most of my investment money is in retirement accounts, I can't touch it for years, and my time horizon is long enough that most of this won't make all that much difference.

 

[AniHawk]

So, let's say a deal goes through, and everything is saved just in the nick of time...I don't want to see any back-patting from anyone in Washington. I don't think I could stomach it.

But that's exactly what will happen. And that's exactly what McCain's campaign wants to happen.

 

[Chiggs]

It will be ugly, but I'm almost desensitized to it now. And in any case, given that most of my investment money is in retirement accounts, I can't touch it for years, and my time horizon is long enough that most of this won't make all that much difference.

Hmmm, I'd like to have that confidence, but I think this could get really, really bad. On top of that, the USA is pretty much walking around with a giant piece of shit on its face, so it's also really humiliating.

China in space! Putin and Chavez hanging out! Lawdy!

 

[devilhawk]

While I don't have much qualms with much of your post (even if it's relatively exaggerated in parts), claiming Clinton used Iraq solely as a diversion for purely political gain is just flat wrong.

Alright point taken, I'll withdraw the 'purely' part. Let's just agree it was very good timing.

 

[Evlar]

Damn. This NYTimes account of the bailout blow-up is scathing.

 

[devilhawk]

It will be ugly (I've already lost quite a bit on paper), but I'm almost desensitized to it now. And in any case, given that most of my investment money is in retirement accounts, I can't touch it for years, and my time horizon is long enough that most of this won't make all that much difference.

Exactly my situation.

 

[Cyan]

Hmmm, I'd like to have that confidence, but I think this could get really, really bad. On top of that, the USA is pretty much walking around with a giant piece of shit on its face, so it's also really humiliating.

China in space! Putin and Chavez hanging out! Lawdy!

It's either confidence or massive denial. :lol

But I like to think it's the former.

 

[soul creator]

I live in an apartment, and the extent of my "investments" are a couple thousand dollars in a 401K, and a few hundred dollars in my checking and savings accounts, so I'm guessing I won't really be affected by all of this (at least not directly)

My company does 401K stuff through Charles Schwab...just logged in and it's all in a "cash and sweep/money market" fund. So I'm guessing that's immune to any market fluctuations?

I'm doing ok I guess, except for the assload of credit card and student loan debt I have :lol

 

[SRG01]

Damn. This NYTimes account of the bailout blow-up is scathing.

Link please?

edit: Is it this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html

 

[MaddenNFL64]

3 of 4 caucuses are dealing with this. It just pisses me off that one leg of this table makes the whole thing topple.

Sucks.

 

[kevm3]

Today will be a really interesting day. i can't wait to see if the debates happen and what the fallout will be if they don't.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I'm doing ok I guess, except for the assload of credit card and student loan debt I have :lol

Seems like you should cut back on your 401k contribution and put more towards your CC debt (and maybe your student loans too, depending on your rate and terms).

 

[Evlar]

Link please?

edit: Is it this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html

Yes. The descriptions of Paulson literally on his knees in front of Pelosi... Paulson acknowledging his own party was sinking the bailout ship... McCain knowing about the House Republican revolt but not saying anything about it prior to the meeting (or during it)... Obama grilling Paulson while McCain sat silent... It's almost too incredible to believe. It's like a Hollywood idea of politics.

 

[soul creator]

Seems like you should cut back on your 401k contribution and put more towards your CC debt (and maybe your student loans too, depending on your rate and terms).

well, I actually don't contribute that much per paycheck to my 401K (it's a pretty low percentage, plus my company matches it). I consolidated my student loans a while back with a pretty low interest rate (like 2-3% I think) and for the next couple years I'm not required to pay that much each month (monthly payment goes up in 2010-2011). My credit card debt, as well as my car note should be payed off in like 2010, so at that point I'd be mostly set (I can probably put more towards my student loans at this point). My Hyundai Elantra better last me a long ass time :lol

Spoiler

I'm also single and don't plan on having kids. ever. Vasectomy ftw

 

[Iksenpets]

3 of 4 caucuses are dealing with this. It just pisses me off that one leg of this table makes the whole thing topple.

Sucks.

Not only that, the plan has the backing of the President, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Fed Chairman. There's no one but these House Republicans and McCain fighting it. It's ridiculous and it's a sad state of affairs when the Democrats have to be worried about the political implications of standing up to it.

And that McCain would basically throw bipartisanship out the window in favor of a Republican plan that even the Republican's own Treasury Secretary says in unworkable has turned my distaste for the man into outright fury. I've always liked McCain. I thought he was the best candidate, Republican or Democrat, in 2000, and even thought I always knew I'd be voting Obama this election, I always felt kind of guilty that it would have to be a vote against John McCain. Yeah, he said some things I disagreed with throughout the campaign and went back on some of his more moderate previous beliefs, but I accepted that as what was necessary when one is Republican nominee. He lost me when he appointed Palin. Any sympathy I had for him was lost at that point. That wasn't just talk. That was an actual, executive decision, and it was one that put the whole nation at risk for political gain. But this, this is on a whole other level. That put the nation in a state of potential risk, that Palin could maybe someday become president and not be ready for it, but this has put the country in immediate danger. This isn't "Country First", it's pure political theater and it's got my blood boiling.

Sorry for the rant, this has all just got me worked up.

 

[Jonm1010]

Mr. McCain was at one end of the long conference table, Mr. Obama at the other, with the president and senior Congressional leaders between them. Participants said Mr. Obama peppered Mr. Paulson with questions, while Mr. McCain said little. Outside the West Wing, a huge crowd of reporters gathered in the driveway, anxiously awaiting an appearance by either presidential candidate, with expectations running high.

This paragraph and that sentence sums up the difference between McCain and Obama.

 

[RiskyChris]

Is anyone going to call McCain out for not having read the proposal? It was three pages.

 

[Tamanon]

I will say, one of the things I enjoy about the Rachel Maddow show is that she does have Republicans on, and doesn't try and make them look bad generally. At least doesn't TRY to. It's still weird though seeing Buchanan on there, you gotta wonder if he doesn't hate her or vice versa.

 

[AniHawk]

Is anyone going to call McCain out for not having read the proposal? It was three pages.

Jon Stewart did. But I think that's because he feels like he has some sort of responsibility to the American people or some crazy shit like that.

 

[Mandark]

I will say, one of the things I enjoy about the Rachel Maddow show is that she does have Republicans on, and doesn't try and make them look bad generally. At least doesn't TRY to. It's still weird though seeing Buchanan on there, you gotta wonder if he doesn't hate her or vice versa.

I've said this before, but Buchanan's not a hack. He's a horrible person but he's pretty straight up.

When you have him on you'll hear what he thinks. You get another Republican on, you'll likely hear whatever the orders are from GOP HQ that day.

 

[speculawyer]

It's still weird though seeing Buchanan on there, you gotta wonder if he doesn't hate her or vice versa.

They seem to have a pretty good relationship. They've been on Road to the Whitehouse a lot together and other pundit shows. He's even been on her AirAmerica radio program.

She calls him her 'fake uncle'. They clearly have very different opinions on many things but seem to get along pretty well.

 

[devilhawk]

Not only that, the plan has the backing of the President, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Fed Chairman. There's no one but these House Republicans and McCain fighting it. It's ridiculous and it's a sad state of affairs when the Democrats have to be worried about the political implications of standing up to it.

And that McCain would basically throw bipartisanship out the window in favor of a Republican plan that even the Republican's own Treasury Secretary says in unworkable has turned my distaste for the man into outright fury. I've always liked McCain. I thought he was the best candidate, Republican or Democrat, in 2000, and even thought I always knew I'd be voting Obama this election, I always felt kind of guilty that it would have to be a vote against John McCain. Yeah, he said some things I disagreed with throughout the campaign and went back on some of his more moderate previous beliefs, but I accepted that as what was necessary when one is Republican nominee. He lost me when he appointed Palin. Any sympathy I had for him was lost at that point. That wasn't just talk. That was an actual, executive decision, and it was one that put the whole nation at risk for political gain. But this, this is on a whole other level. That put the nation in a state of potential risk, that Palin could maybe someday become president and not be ready for it, but this has put the country in immediate danger. This isn't "Country First", it's pure political theater and it's got my blood boiling.

Sorry for the rant, this has all just got me worked up.

Haha, ok?

Oh, and if the plan is so great, what do the dems have to worry about? If they are worried about their political careers, maybe just maybe it isn't necessarily the best plan and they recognize this. There is nothing truly stopping this from the floor.

They seem to have a pretty good relationship. They've been on Road to the Whitehouse a lot together and other pundit shows. He's even been on her AirAmerica radio program.

She calls him her 'fake uncle'. They clearly have very different opinions on many things but seem to get along pretty well.

She treats him entirely different than any other conservative on her show.

 

[Tamanon]

I've said this before, but Buchanan's not a hack. He's a horrible person but he's pretty straight up.

When you have him on you'll hear what he thinks. You get another Republican on, you'll likely hear whatever the orders are from GOP HQ that day.

Oh I completely agree, Buchanan's his own man. It just seems a weird relationship, especially since almost every time I saw them on Race to the White House he was getting kinda schooled by her.

 

[RiskyChris]

Jon Stewart did. But I think that's because he feels like he has some sort of responsibility to the American people or some crazy shit like that.

Yeah, I've been really impressed with The Daily Show the past few weeks since the RNC. I can quote myself from a few months ago saying how I almost couldn't watch TDS anymore, but god damn if I don't find myself enjoying every minute of it lately.

 

[Hitokage]

Yeah, I've been really impressed with The Daily Show the past few weeks since the RNC. I can quote myself from a few months ago saying how I almost couldn't watch TDS anymore, but god damn if I don't find myself enjoying every minute of it lately.

They've been feeding off the insanity injected into the election, and most of that begins with Palin.

 

[Brannon]

Well when the nation is on the line, Jon spits hot fiyah.

 

[Argyle]

Haha, ok?

Oh, and if the plan is so great, what do the dems have to worry about? If they are worried about their political careers, maybe just maybe it isn't necessarily the best plan and they recognize this. There is nothing truly stopping this from the floor.

The plan is unpopular, but it may be necessary. IMHO the economy is in uncharted waters - it's hard to say how the bailout would play out.

For that reason, I can hardly blame them for wanting full bipartisan support so that this doesn't come back to bite them in the ass later.

 

[ViperVisor]

Maddow said she was somewhat pushed into activism by Pat's speech in 92

She has his hateful nonsense to thank for her being at this point now.