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[Link648099]

So you calling the election now? I still think there's plenty of time. Looking at the historical gallups, there were some pretty wild swings, and this one isn't even that big yet.

I think he means for the week.

 

[ronito]

This bailout will make any recession worse. More government bureaucracy, more regulations, price fixing, more debt for the US government. The dollar could collapse which will hurt everybody.

You're absolutely right. That's exactly what we need LESS regulation! The whole mess obviously started from the fact that we didn't trust Wall Street enough. Stupid us.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

What Campaign Ads Would Look Like If the Voting Age Was 6

http://www.cracked.com/article_16661_campaign-ads-would-look-like-if-voting-age-was-6.html

Some good ones are there.

 

[gkryhewy]

This bailout plan is a trickle down solution folks.. This is saving the rich guy to protect the little guy. I thought liberals were against that and favored more bottom up solutions.

Except this time it's more Niagara Falls-down than trickle-down.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Here's a fun tool for people wanting immediate reactions to the Debates tonight.

Twitter has set up a web page that posts up any Twitter that mentions a candidate's name.

http://election.twitter.com/

This is going to be so fun.


current comments:

jkpcguru Is the Palin bubble about to burst?

jrsims
jrsims No need for the debate. McCain already won it! http://tinyurl.com/4ajkz2

:lol it's spreading!

GlobalPunditOrg @justinasaurus what??!? McCain a POW? I never heard that...

DCTenor1 RT @apeldad: Remember when you'd try to fake being sick and your mom would make you go to school anyway? John McCain does.

:lol :lol

davidkellis McCain will win the debates. All of 'em. Obama speaks in soundbites, and doesn't really know how to talk to people.

:lol :lol :lol

tchwojko Forgot international experience, how many US States has Palin visited prior to the VP nomination?

circa1977 ABC News: McCain pleading with his party alongside Bush to pass bailout. Pleading, not leading.

It's GAF on speed dial.

 

[VanMardigan]

It's not over. But McCain's case for himself just got a lot harder, and Obama's case against McCain - and for himself - just got a lot stronger. McCain wanted a game-changer and it seems to have been one. For Obama.

40 days left, though. Going to be a wild ride.

Obama's had momentum since the whole crisis started, hasn't he. I'm holding off on calling this a "game-changer" yet. Maybe in a few weeks. Just too much time left.

 

[Fatalah]

Let me get this straight

NO BAILOUT!
1.) Some people subscribe to the line of thinking that these dirty businessmen need to be cleaned out.

Who's in this camp?

- 70% of Americans.
- House Republicans.
- Ron Paul and believers of strict capitalism.

YES BAILOUT!

2.) Some people believe this crisis goes beyond the businessmen involved. The bailout is needed to maintain the fungibility integrity of our whole economy.

Who's in this camp?

- Bush, Bernake, Paulson, most economic analysts on TV.


So McCain is with Option 1, Obama with Option 2?

 

[Tamanon]

Let me get this straight

NO BAILOUT!
1.) Some people subscribe to the line of thinking that these dirty businessmen need to be cleaned out.

Who's in this camp?

- 70% of Americans.
- House Republicans.
- Ron Paul and believers of strict capitalism.

YES BAILOUT!

2.) Some people that this crisis goes beyond the businessmen involved. The bailout is needed to maintain the fungibility integrity of our whole economy.

Who's in this camp?

- Bush, Bernake, Paulson, most economic analysts on TV.


So McCain is with Option 1, Obama with Option 2?

McCain is with Option 2 publically. Otherwise we could slide into a Depression by Monday with 12% unemployment.

 

[Frank the Great]

new poll:


VIRGINIA!

VA: Obama 50, McCain 45 (9/25)

By Eric Dienstfrey

Rasmussen Reports
9/25/08; 700 LV, 4%
Mode: IVR

Virginia
Obama 50, McCain 45

It's a dead heat! Barely outside the margin of error!

 

[gkryhewy]

So McCain is with Option 1, Obama with Option 2?

No one knows. We'll see tonight.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Let me get this straight

NO BAILOUT!
1.) Some people subscribe to the line of thinking that these dirty businessmen need to be cleaned out.

Who's in this camp?

- 70% of Americans.
- House Republicans.
- Ron Paul and believers of strict capitalism.

YES BAILOUT!

2.) Some people believe this crisis goes beyond the businessmen involved. The bailout is needed to maintain the fungibility integrity of our whole economy.

Who's in this camp?

- Bush, Bernake, Paulson, most economic analysts on TV.


So McCain is with Option 1, Obama with Option 2?

Last I knew McCain was with no option.

He'll have to check with his advisers before he can confirm how he thinks.

 

[SRG01]

Let me get this straight

NO BAILOUT!
1.) Some people subscribe to the line of thinking that these dirty businessmen need to be cleaned out.

Who's in this camp?

- 70% of Americans.
- House Republicans.
- Ron Paul and believers of strict capitalism.

YES BAILOUT!

2.) Some people that this crisis goes beyond the businessmen involved. The bailout is needed to maintain the fungibility integrity of our whole economy.

Who's in this camp?

- Bush, Bernake, Paulson, most economic analysts on TV.


So McCain is with Option 1, Obama with Option 2?

You can't lump House Repubs and McCain with option 1. Their counter-proposal shows that they aren't interested in cleaning out dirty businessmen, but rather to push anti-regulatory methods that are not proven to work.

The original Paulson proposal wanted money -- no strings attached. The WH, along with the rest of the treasury members, begged the House Dems to help pass the bill. Pelosi wanted a "majority of the minority" and hammered down favorable key points for homeowners and anti-compensation policies for executives.

So the situation isn't that black and white. And I can see that from up here in Canada for crying out loud.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

This was posted right?

Obama's Lead Nearly Doubles In Today's Tracking Polls
By Eric Kleefeld - September 26, 2008, 1:17PM

Here's a wrap-up of the four major national tracking polls for today, containing the first full day of sampling since John McCain's pseudo-suspension -- and Barack Obama is extending his lead:

• Gallup: Obama 48%, McCain 45%, with a ±2% margin of error. Yesterday, the candidates were tied 46%-46%.

• Rasmussen: Obama 50%, McCain 45%, with a ±2% margin of error, compared to an Obama lead yesterday of 49%-46%.

• Hotline/Diageo: Obama 49%, McCain 42%, with a ±3.2% margin of error, compared to a 47%-43% Obama lead yesterday.

• Research 2000: Obama 48%, McCain 43%, with a ±3% margin of error. Yesterday, Obama was up 49%-43%.

Adding these polls together and weighting them by sample sizes, Obama is ahead by a margin of 48.9%-44.5%, almost double his margin from yesterday's 47.7%-45.3%.

Since John McCain began his quasi-suspension to deal with the economic crisis, we've had one new day of data for these three-day tracking polls. And that day doesn't appear to have treated him well.

 

[RubxQub]

This was posted right?

Right

 

[VanMardigan]

Except this time it's more Niagara Falls-down than trickle-down.

I think that's crap, but I'm not surprised that the Dems here are eating it up. I DON'T think the economy will collapse if we take some time crafting this legislation, I DON'T believe this is the proper thing to do (bail out Wall Street), and I DO think that this is just another trickle down solution.

Consumers are STILL going to be in debt after the bailout, and credit is STILL going to be harder to obtain. What, exactly, is trickling down? But if this was a 'market correction' anyway and things are set to level out, this bailout will appear like it worked anyway.

This thing will probably handcuff a lot of Obama's initiatives, at least in the short term. I'm not convinced this is what President Obama would've proposed, but since his party is behind it, he has no real power (or currently, time) to implement a solution himself, and Americans are being frightened with images of certain economic collapse, he'll appear like he's behind it.

 

[syllogism]

Obama Memo: We're Really, Really Bad At Debates...

Oh the expectations they'll set...

 

[Fatalah]

Last I knew McCain was with no option.

He'll have to check with his advisers before he can confirm how he thinks.

So from last night's situation with the House GOP-- McCain encouraged them to get angry and push for their tax-cutting, deregulatory ideas into the bailout bill right? So McCain wants the bill to be passed, but he wants his PARTISAN ideals to squeak in there.

I thought both candidates agreed to get this bill out there and passed, without tacking on stipulations reflecting their party's interest???!

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Right

Alright, then just reposted for emphasis I guess.

 

[soul creator]

http://thepage.time.com/mccain-pool-report-5/

McCain Pool Report

McCain now boarding plane at DCA with Cindy, Salter, Rudy Giuliani, wife Judith, and other aides plus pool.

Heading to Memphis, 1:50 minute flight, then motorcade to site

General atmosphere is utter confusion.

:lol

 

[gkryhewy]

I think that's crap, but I'm not surprised that the Dems here are eating it up. I DON'T think the economy will collapse if we take some time crafting this legislation, I DON'T believe this is the proper thing to do (bail out Wall Street), and I DO think that this is just another trickle down solution.

Consumers are STILL going to be in debt after the bailout, and credit is STILL going to be harder to obtain. What, exactly, is trickling down? But if this was a 'market correction' anyway and things are set to level out, this bailout will appear like it worked anyway.

This thing will probably handcuff a lot of Obama's initiatives, at least in the short term. I'm not convinced this is what President Obama would've proposed, but since his party is behind it, he has no real power (or currently, time) to implement a solution himself, and Americans are being frightened with images of certain economic collapse, he'll appear like he's behind it.

If Barack Obama and John McCain both say that we are in deep shit if nothing passes *soon*, then I am inclined to take them at their word.

BTW just found out that Sarah Palin will be at a bar just down the street from me tonight. :lol ("Irish Pub" [yes, that's the name], 22nd and Walnut Streets, Philadelphia - home of exterior shots for Rocky Balboa)

 

[Blackhead]

I'll never get tired of re-reading this thread about Obama:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124471&highlight=Obama

:lol Classic. A poligaf presidential thread with only 5 pages = :O

Funny how many people there now have Obama avatars. Two weird edits though, by GauntletPhantom, that were made over a year after originally posted! WTF, did he promise to eat shit if Obama was still running after New Hampshire or something?

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

No one believes a bailout is the only option, but since Paulson and Bernake claim we need something quickly, this works for now.

I think it's like a basement flooding from a broken pipe. Plug the leak first, then worry about draining the basement.

Once the problem is solved, don't just go back to waiting for the next crisis. Take active steps to examine and make adjustments to the rest of the pipes (you know, something the previous tenants never bothered to do).

 

[RubxQub]

Obama Memo: We're Really, Really Bad At Debates...

Oh the expectations they'll set...

I agree with the title of this article.

Obama never really came across strongly in the debates against Hillary.

 

[haunts]

I think that's crap, but I'm not surprised that the Dems here are eating it up. I DON'T think the economy will collapse if we take some time crafting this legislation, I DON'T believe this is the proper thing to do (bail out Wall Street), and I DO think that this is just another trickle down solution.

Consumers are STILL going to be in debt after the bailout, and credit is STILL going to be harder to obtain. What, exactly, is trickling down? But if this was a 'market correction' anyway and things are set to level out, this bailout will appear like it worked anyway.

This thing will probably handcuff a lot of Obama's initiatives, at least in the short term. I'm not convinced this is what President Obama would've proposed, but since his party is behind it, he has no real power (or currently, time) to implement a solution himself, and Americans are being frightened with images of certain economic collapse, he'll appear like he's behind it.

Its not just the consumers really, its more about the communities that consumers live in. You really have to look and see how this will play out if banks just cant give people loans/funding for new businesses and real estate.

I work with commercial real estate agents and business brokers and all of them are saying they can get good leads but when the time comes for funding for a property or business, they cant get it. This has been going on for months and 2 months ago it wasnt nearly as bad as it now is. Think about it. If people cant get loans to start new businesses, buy commercial property, a house, or whatever, areas of the country will start to go down the shitter real fast. People on the streets out of their homes, businesses being closed down, boarded up , no new businesses springing up. Crime increases and eventually panic and mayhem. It could get real real bad.

 

[Zeliard]

I agree with the title of this article.

Obama never really came across strongly in the debates against Hillary.

Hillary beat him in the debates, no question, but Obama did get pretty consistently better at them as time went on. I expect he'll have a solid performance tonight. The main problem with Obama's debating is that the answers he gives are too nuanced.

 

[StoOgE]

I think that's crap, but I'm not surprised that the Dems here are eating it up. I DON'T think the economy will collapse if we take some time crafting this legislation, I DON'T believe this is the proper thing to do (bail out Wall Street), and I DO think that this is just another trickle down solution.

Consumers are STILL going to be in debt after the bailout, and credit is STILL going to be harder to obtain. What, exactly, is trickling down? But if this was a 'market correction' anyway and things are set to level out, this bailout will appear like it worked anyway.

This thing will probably handcuff a lot of Obama's initiatives, at least in the short term. I'm not convinced this is what President Obama would've proposed, but since his party is behind it, he has no real power (or currently, time) to implement a solution himself, and Americans are being frightened with images of certain economic collapse, he'll appear like he's behind it.

Look, your right, credit is never going to be as cheap and abundant as it was 3 years ago. It never should have been that cheap and abundant to begin with. But what we are talking about here is a complete shut down of credit for EVERYONE. Commercial paper (short term (30 days or less) corporate debt) is critical to the economic juices, without it things could get very very bad. It isnt just empty talk, there is a strong possibility of this getting no bueno in a hurry.

The fact is we dont know how bad it could get if this doesnt pass, but it probably isnt good.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The main problem with Obama's debating is that the answers he gives are too nuanced.

And that he can't rely on his precious teleprompter to save him.

 

[RubxQub]

Hillary beat him in the debates, no question, but Obama did get pretty consistently better at them as time went on. I expect he'll have a solid performance tonight. The main problem with Obama's debating is that the answers he gives are too nuanced.

This is exactly the reason why so many people hesitate when it comes to Bams. He speaks too much because he's trying to give a full answer, but that isn't what people want, and it doesn't play too well in a debate format.

His answers need to be tighter and punchier.

 

[GenericPseudonym]

I think that's crap, but I'm not surprised that the Dems here are eating it up. I DON'T think the economy will collapse if we take some time crafting this legislation, I DON'T believe this is the proper thing to do (bail out Wall Street), and I DO think that this is just another trickle down solution.

Consumers are STILL going to be in debt after the bailout, and credit is STILL going to be harder to obtain. What, exactly, is trickling down? But if this was a 'market correction' anyway and things are set to level out, this bailout will appear like it worked anyway.

This thing will probably handcuff a lot of Obama's initiatives, at least in the short term. I'm not convinced this is what President Obama would've proposed, but since his party is behind it, he has no real power (or currently, time) to implement a solution himself, and Americans are being frightened with images of certain economic collapse, he'll appear like he's behind it.

This isn't a god damn correction. This has been going on, and getting increasingly worse for a whole year. You've had a DOW component implode, the largest series of bank failures in history and you think this is some sort of correction? This is the single greatest threat to the United States in decades, the government needs to act.

 

[djtiesto]

Obama Memo: We're Really, Really Bad At Debates...

Oh the expectations they'll set...

"McCain is likely to steer the conversation, as he has in prior debates, to his captivity in Vietnam. It was the bedrock experience of his life and is the organizing principle of his political identity. ..."

YOU DON'T SAY...

Should be an interesting time tonight. I'm attempting to organize some friends to come over, watch the debate, and later play COD4, Mario Kart and Halo. Sucks that I'm the only one pro Obama out of my group, all the others are either 3rd party or not gonna bother to vote because of McCain's Palin decision and late-game stumbling.

 

[FrankT]

Real nasty viral video I just found off Drudge on this whole mortgage crises. If this gets around it could be interesting to say the least.

 

[gcubed]

If Barack Obama and John McCain both say that we are in deep shit if nothing passes *soon*, then I am inclined to take them at their word.

BTW just found out that Sarah Palin will be at a bar just down the street from me tonight. :lol ("Irish Pub" [yes, that's the name], 22nd and Walnut Streets, Philadelphia - home of exterior shots for Rocky Balboa)

sweet, she'll be at the Irish Pub? Maybe i'll stop by and ask her if this constitutes more Foreign Policy experience.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

 

[Thunder Monkey]

:lol Classic. A poligaf presidential thread with only 5 pages = :O

Funny how many people there now have Obama avatars. Two weird edits though, by GauntletPhantom, that were made over a year after originally posted! WTF, did he promise to eat shit if Obama was still running after New Hampshire or something?

That was interesting.:lol

It will be all about experience!

:lol

 

[Fatalah]

Real nasty viral video I just found off Drudge on this whole mortgage crises. If this gets around it could be interesting to say the least.

eh?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Guys, if JSA doesn't show up (yes I know he's now supposedly going to), they wouldn't need to cancel based on equal time. Obama could talk for 45 min, and an empty chair could get JSA's 45 min. The organizers could make a decent case that they'd provided equal time that way.

 

[gkryhewy]

sweet, she'll be at the Irish Pub? Maybe i'll stop by and ask her if this constitutes more Foreign Policy experience.

WINNER

 

[soul creator]

This is exactly the reason why so many people hesitate when it comes to Bams. He speaks too much because he's trying to give a full answer, but that isn't what people want, and it doesn't play too well in a debate format.

His answers need to be tighter and punchier.

in fairness, the only debates people really remember with him are ones where he debated against people who have 95% of the same views as he does.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

OMFG

 

[haunts]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

Holy shit.

 

[giga]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

 

[Tamanon]

Yeah, you kinda HAVE to be nuanced in the Dem debates, since everyone pretty much has the same view on domestic policy, just different ways of approaching it.

 

[Fatalah]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH "that's not a good guy who's sayin that!"

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_bailout_1_9145.php

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Xisiqomelir]

The Draft of the Dodd/Paulson/Bipartisan proposal: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_ayo08b28.html

The GOP alternative: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/images/news/articles/economic-rescue-principles.pdf

This is probably shallow and unsophisticated of me, but I think the 44-page Dem plan might be more substantive simply based on the fact that it's 43 pages longer than the House GOP/McCain plan.

 

[Captain Pants]

my brain is melting:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/palin.israel.comments.cnn

Would someone be kind enough to summarize this?

 

[TomServo]

Its not just the consumers really, its more about the communities that consumers live in. You really have to look and see how this will play out if banks just cant give people loans/funding for new businesses and real estate.

I'm in the camp that doesn't think this is going to make a significant dent in the housing situation. The demand isn't going to be there.

You've got people who've been foreclosed on; they're not getting loans until the foreclosures expire from their credit history. You've got people who've bought during the bubble who can still make their payments; I'm in this group, we can't afford to sell at a huge loss, so we're now in it for the long haul. You've got people that are in homes bought prior to the bubble, they're in better shape but they still need to find a buyer before they're back on the market. That's just in sales of existing homes - throw in builders trying to scratch out a living and the supply glut continues even longer.

Essentially it's a buyer's market for first-time home buyers. They'll get to deal with recession-level interest rates from wary borrowers. The rest of us aren't getting out of or into homes anytime soon. If there's foreclosure prevention/assistance that will keep houses off of the market, but those buyers aren't going to be there either. May stop supply from increasing, but demand will still be stagnant.

Unfreezing the credit markets may help with capital procurement for businesses, but I don't see it doing much to help this out. Where am I wrong?

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Would someone be kind enough to summarize this?

Palin has the vocabulary and worldview of an 8-year old.

 

[kaching]

BTW just found out that Sarah Palin will be at a bar just down the street from me tonight. :lol ("Irish Pub" [yes, that's the name], 22nd and Walnut Streets, Philadelphia - home of exterior shots for Rocky Balboa)

Do you know the time?

 

[Deleted member 20415]

Man... so... your foreign policy comes down to "good guys" and "bad guys"... where have I heard that before... hmm... and she's sure she doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is?